bucketlistlady

Hello,

I am currently planning a trip to Italy for next May. I think we will have about 9 -10 days. Obviously I can't see it all, so I need some help.

My situation ~ Italy has always been on the top of my bucket list. I wasn't planning on going for another 20 years, but after battling cancer the last 2 years, I have decided to go! I am going with my 30 year old son. This is such an important trip on so many levels. I have been reading about the sites and honestly am not sure that I am able to do miles of hikes, or stand in lines for tickets for hours. We would like to be able to go and rest and needed. We do want to see Rome (Colosseum, Pantheon, St. Peter's square, the Vatican), but would also like to see the ocean of Tuscany (bed and breakfast?) with hills of poppies and a nice glass of wine (relax?). A gondola ride in Venice (though I hear is overrated?) is on the bucket list as well. I would love to see the Last Supper in Milan (is that crazy?) the opera La Scalla (worth it?) And I would love to surprise my son with a very small cooking class (maybe in Tuscany?) He would like to rent a car and just go (bad idea?)

All in all, we will just be thrilled to be there. How do we relax and see it? I mean is it enough to stand at the bottom of the Spanish Steps without going up them? Get my drift? I need quality time to talk with him, love him, and make memories of cherished time together, not just waiting in crowds and lines.

Help!
Thanks,
Jodie

ellenem

First of all, best wishes for a wonderful journey with your son.

Now . . . logistics for 9-10 days . . . Assuming you are from the U.S., does that include your travel days to and from Italy? If yes, then you really have only 8 days to see your list:

= Rome (Colosseum, Pantheon, Spanish Steps [overrated in my opinion], Vatican/St. Peter's
= Tuscany (seaside [unclear what you mean by Tuscan ocean and why you want to see it], driving through hills of poppies, cooking class, relax)
= Venice (gondola ride)
= Milan (DaVinci's Last Supper, La Scala opera)

And every time you change location, you will lose about half a day traveling from city to city and checking in and out of hotels. Which gives you about 1.5 days in each location. Not much time for relaxing.

Some questions: How important is seeing DaVinci's Last Supper? It is a long distance to travel for a 15-minute visit. How important is it for the opera to be a La Scala? Venice also has a beautiful, historic opera house—La Fenice.

Here's how I would accomplish your wish list, though it may not offer much time for relaxation:

Day 1: depart home
Day 2: arrive Milan; visit Last Supper; train to Venice in afternoon; sleep Venice
Day 3: Venice; gondola ride; opera at La Fenice; sleep Venice
Day 4: pick up car; drive to Tuscany; sleep Tuscany
Day 5: Tuscany; cooking class
Day 6: Tuscany; drive/train to Rome in Afternoon; sleep in Rome
Day 7: Rome; Ancient Rome/Colosseum
Day 8: Rome; Vatican/St Peter's
Day 9: Rome; relax in center of town (Pantheon, Spanish Steps)
Day 10: Fly home

You could skip MIlan and fly directly to Venice to ease your arrival day if you are willing to skip the Last Supper.

bobthenavigator

In that time you will do well to see 3 destinations---Rome, Florence, and Tuscany. There is no ocean near Tuscany--not sure what you mean. You do not have time for Milan and Venice.

Lexma90

With the amount of time that you have, and your desires to create wonderful memories, I would choose two destinations out of all that you've mentioned.

Consider the places that you've dreamed about or talked about. Compare them to current or former interests in your life. For example, if you've always been a big opera buff, then La Scala may "need" to be on your list.

Go to your local library, and check out all the guidebooks and books about Italy that you can. I find books with pictures to be the most helpful. Also good for pictures are those huge coffeetable books available in many of the big bookstores. Either buy one about Italy, or just flip through some of them in the bookstore. Also check out travel videos from the library. If find many of them boring, but if you're using them to get ideas, then it doesn't matter so much about the quality See which places really strike your fancy, then narrow down which appeal to you the most.

Of the things you mentioned, here's my opinion, and why (so you can decide which might be more appealing to YOU and YOUR SON):
- Gondola ride. Touristy, yes, pretty, yes. They move very slowly, and I prefer to walk along the canals. But if your energy level is low, then the rides are a great way to see the city, and from a different vantage point than walking would provide. Specify to the gondolier that you want to stay on the side canals. My DH loved this ride, and when we took our daughter to Italy, this was high on both of their lists.
- Rome - Forum and Colosseum - Way high up on my list, but I love history, including that of ancient Rome. My DH is not so excited by these places - he says you have to have a very good sense of imagination to envision the Forum as it once wa.
- Vatican - St. Peter's is grand, but except for Michelangelo's Pieta, there are other churches I prefer. The Vatican Museums are a huge deal for me, because I love art.
- Da Vinci's Last Supper. We visited this after quite a few trips to Italy. The problem is that to visit here, you'll have to give up at least one entire day that could have been spent elsewhere. I found that I really enjoyed Milan, and would like to return, but that was after visiting many other places in Italy first. I would place Rome, Florence and Venice all higher on the list than going to Milan to see one (fabulous) painting.

I think you mean, with your reference to "the ocean of Tuscany," that fabulous view looking over the rolling hills of the countryside. Especially if you want a more relaxed trip, this would be good to fit in (but at the expense of one of the cities).

I would say that, generally, in May, you won't have too many lines or crowds to deal with, except for places like the Vatican Museums or the Uffizi (in Florence).

PalenQ

the best way between those cities IMO and IME is to go by train - the fantastic Italian rail system - much much improved in the past few decades so it rivals any in Europe IMO. Trains run very frequently and are comfy - my years of travling on these trains makes me strongly encourage the likes of the average tourist wishing for the most relaxed form of travel to pay a bit extra and go first class - especially if with lots of luggage - more empty seats and bigger seats - all in all a more relaxed way of traveling over often quite full second class, which though ain't cattle cars indeed!

Check out these fab sites IMO for mucho info on Italian trains - www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com. Check www.trenitalia.com for schedules and fares - if you want to lock yousrself into a specific train far in advance perhaps you can nab some nifty discounts on trenitalia.com but as these are not always easy to change if you want to take a later train I'd just buy full fare tickets as you go along - like you're in Florence and going to Venice but there was one thing you did not see and would like to linger a bit the next day and take a later train - hard to do if you have booked a hard perhaps to change train weeks in advance.

I do not think you are traveling enough to consider the Italian Railpass though perhaps in first class it might be cost-effective - I don't think so but not sure.

anna_roz

Yes, best wishes to you on beating the @$#%^&( out of cancer! And have a wonderful trip with your son, whatever you ultimately decide to do.

If you can score nine (9) nights on land, then two nights in Venice, three (3) in the Tuscan Countryside, and four (4) in Rome would be doable. Not necessarily a chill-relaxing type of a trip but not to whirlwind either. So, as noted above, fly into Venice, do your bucket list (reserve a tour of La Fenice in advance); rent a car and drive to Tuscany (you will need to decide where, e.g., San Gimignano, Lucca, MOntepulciano; all good and wonderful); then drop off the car and train to Rome. Fly home out of Rome. There are people that drive their rental to Rome and drop it off there but that is a bit more stressful.
Personally, this would be the extent of inclusions for me. I always give an example of a couple of friends I have that visited three Hawaiian Islands in one week, loved it, and say that they would do it again! Who am I to argue that their way of travel is worse then mine. Plan the trip that you want! And, again, best of wishes to you! Anna

loveners

Italy will be a fabulous reward for the challenging journey you & your son have been on already. As the 34 year old daughter of a Mum with stage 4, who's also been to Italy a few times, I'm going to answer slightly differently.

A whirlwind trip will tire you out and all the transiting will eat into precious time. Focus on minimal transferring which means picking 2 destinations which mean the most to you which offer you both active options for when you got good energy levels and quieter options for when you're having a slow day.

May in Venice is a gorgeous time, nice temperatures and manageable people numbers. Venice offers you some great choices for both the active days and the slower days. As people-watching goes, I'm pressed to think of a better spot. You can have long lunches, sit in quiet squares, go for short strolls or long strolls. The lack of cars makes for a peaceful spot, even with the people. The gondola ride allows another perspective on the city, you could also take the ferry across to the Lido neighborhood or ferry to Burano and sit and watch different people whilst having all the important chats you want to have.

The other thing I like about Venice is that it is a spot that your son may wish to visit again in the future. It would make a particularly special visit for him there as he'll both enjoy re-exploring with someone special whilst also remembering his really special memories with his Mum.

Feel free to keep asking questions and have fun with the planning.

Lovener2

jent103

First of all, huge congratulations to you - I'm so glad you're able to plan a trip!

ellenem's plan is good if everything is an absolute must-do, but she's right that it would not be a relaxing trip, and it's hard to know which is most important to you. As others have said, Milan is the most obvious first "cut" for most people. To add to that, I'll say that we tried to get Last Supper tickets via the official web site, but even though I was online at 7:30am my time the day they went on sale for our dates, they were still sold out. There are likely tour operators and other companies you could get those through, but before planning a stop in Milan specifically for that, I would do some research into your options. (As far as La Scala, if you're an opera fan I'm sure it's amazing, but for general tourists, I wouldn't rank it a must-see at all from the outside. If it holds a lot of interest for you, the poster yk has taken a tour of the inside - if you search for her trip reports, you should be able to find her thoughts on it.)

One way to do it might be (if you're willing to skip Milan)...

Day 0: Leave US (assuming this is where you're coming from)
Day 1: Arrive Rome
Day 2: Vatican City
Day 3: Ancient Rome
Day 4: Rome center (Pantheon, Trevi, Spanish Steps, Piazza Navona) - pretty relaxing day
Day 5: Travel to Tuscany
Day 6: Tuscany
Day 7: Tuscany
Day 8: Travel to Venice
Day 9: Venice
Day 10: Fly home

Personally I like to start trips in the most chaotic/crazy place and get more relaxed as I go. But if that would make you exhausted for the rest of the vacation, you might flip that around.

annhig

where you start/end may depend on what flights you can get - for example some flights back to the US out of Venice leave very early in the morning, which you may wish to avoid.

that aside, starting in Venice is very popular for a good reason - there is hardly a nicer way to start a trip to Italy. and it's a very good place for wandering, pausing, wandering again - just what you are after, i think.

After that, I'd hire a car and make for Tuscany. whilst there is no ocean as such, Tuscany does have a long coastline along the Med, but as Bob says, what I suspect you are after is the rolling hills and typical Tuscan landscape. there are two ways of going about this - stay in an agriturismo and use that as a base for trips around the area, returning to eat and drink every night, or pick a small town and do the same. personally, given your circumstances when you may not feel you want to venture out in the car every day, I'd go for the small town option so that you could have a gentle wander around during the day if you wanted to stay there, or in the evenings, if you'd gone out.

then Rome - hectic but fascinating. no need at all to climb the spanish steps, and luckily the colosseum has a lift, as do most museums. a nice hotel right in the centre would probably meet your needs best as then you can go back for a rest if you need to. A good reason for finding somewhere with a terrace so that if you don't want to venture out, you can still look at the glories of Rome!

Have a wonderful trip creating memories for yourself and your son!

MaineGG

Congratulations to you! I'm also a survivor, and I was given a twenty percent chance of surviving five years. That was twelve years ago. Since then, I've been working my bucket list continuously, but find that even though I travel as often as I can, the list just keeps growing.

Whatever you decide to do, you and your son will have an unforgettable experience to cherish forever. I think ellenem has given you a very doable framework for a good trip, especially if you should decide to skip Milan and go directly to Venice. (Of course, if La Scala and the Last Supper have special meaning for you, you should plan to include them.) From Venice on through Tuscany, you will have a car (and driver) to tour at your pace until you go to Rome for the last few days. I recommend planning to drop your car in Orvieto, then visiting the town before taking the train into Rome.

In Rome, if your energy level is low, there are hop-on/hop-off buses that will allow you to ride around the city and hop off to visit sites along the way.

There are many Fodorites here who will give you great assistance with the details of traveling in Italy.

Just a thought... Is there any possibility of extending your trip by a few days? Even a few days more would allow for a bit more relaxed pace.

Buon viaggio!

bucketlistlady

Thank you all so much for the advice. I will be looking into it all. Not knowing the area, what I meant by the ocean was, the coastline in the movie "Under the Tuscan Sun." Does anyone have any ideas on that? Has anyone taken a 1/2 day cooking class in Tuscany that I can be referred to? What is a "agriturismo"? Silly question - but does anyone know of a small church in the countryside that has like a gregorian chant/monk style thing? And, which museums would one go to if they want to get a well rounded look at the art, but not have to be in a museum for hours on end?

Thank you for all of the well wishes! And for all of the help!
bucketlistlady

hazel1

In "Under the Tuscan Sun", the coast that she visited was the Amalfi Coast - her love interest lived in Positano. If you are infamiliar with Italian geography, that is NOT in Tuscany and not even close. It is a beautiful area indeed, but south of Naples, and if you want to include this in your trip, you really need to consider cutting out another destination that you've named. You just don't have enough time to add it in.

Mimar

An agriturismo is a working farm that rents room. They often serve dinner as well as breakfast. You would need a car. But a car is the best way to see Tuscany.

The abbey of Sant'Antimo south of Montalcino in Tuscany has chanting monks and is beautifully set in a quiet valley.

I think of the Uffizi Museum in Florence as a relatively small museum with the choicest Renaissance art.

Finally, if you want beautiful coastline with adorable small towns, google images of the Cinque Terre. It's not as far from Tuscany as the Amalfi Coast.

bobthenavigator

You mean the church of St. Antimo south of Montalcino.
Heer are some shots of Tuscany---you really need a good book and a map--just for Tuscany.

http://www.slowphotos.com/photo/show...y.php?cat=3827

annhig

Tuscany also has beautiful coastline towards the south near Grossetto but it's quite a long way to go if you've only got 10 days.

bucketlistlady

Thank you all again!

Next questions - I read that "Under the Tuscan Sun" was filmed in Cortona(spelling?) Has anyone been there? Also, Bob the Navigator - you have a picture in a window (looks like you're shaving) is that a place you stayed (hotel?) I want to stay in something that looks just like that! (I know, I dream alot!)What "good book and map" would you get? If I just go to St. Antimo anytime will they be chanting (just want to hear it in this lifetime!) Do they have like a church service type thing? Are there other things to see out that way, or would we be spending the day traveling to it just for that? Any comments on the Leaning Tower of Pisa? Worth it?

Thanks,
Bucketlistlady

bobthenavigator

Yes, you are dreaming, and why not!
Cortona is a very nice Tuscan hill town, but no more so than Montepulciano, Pienza or Montalcino, and they are all closer together.
That picture is not me but my friend, Frank---I took the picture. His wife is the next shot in the window. It all took place at a B&B near San Gimignano named Casanova Pescille.

You would need to drive to St. Antimo---the chanting only occurs twice daily and is not really that exciting. There is a recorded sound track playing most of the time in the background.

Let me know some details of your ideal sojourn---when, how long, and how much$$$, and I will give you an overview trip plan to get you started. I have done it 300 times.

uflecku

Bucketlistlady, your excitement is palpable, and it is really great to see someone looking forward to something as much as you are. That said, I think you need to try narrow down the destinations so that you can then focus more accurately on the specifics of those places (flights, accomodations, sights, experiences, FOOD).

I think Bob's suggestion of Florence/Tuscany/Rome is best. Yes you will "miss" other things certainly worth seeing but if you try to see it all I think you really end up experiencing none of it.

As for your specific questions:
- Cortona is a wonderful town. Well worth a visit or stay.
- Good books abound for Italy. Go to your local bookstore and explore the travel section. Or simply use the internet as you are now
- The chanting at St Antimo is on a schedule, several times a day. You will need to plan accordingly (an easy detail once you make some of the larger decisions around where you will be visiting). It is outside of Montalcino, a fantastic hilltown in the most beautiful part of Tuscany, IMO. You will not lack for things to do.
- The Leaning Tower and the surrounding Field of Miracles are very nice. I actually think Pisa is a good place to spend a night (especially if using that airport). However I wouldn't go out of my way JUST to see the tower. You need to map out your trip at a high level and then see how/if Pisa fits in and just how important it is to you compared to other options. For instance if you're spending two days in Florence I wouldn't use one of them to visit Pisa.

Lexma90

I agree with Bob, that Cortona is very nice, but a bit further away from the other Tuscan hilltowns that he mentioned.

Another factor is to remember that the hilltowns are just that; they're up on hills, if your energy level is something that you're keeping in mind. Cortona's streets are a bit steeper than most. If I'm remembering correctly, so are Montepulciano's. Montalcino's are a bit less steep (I think - I bet other people can remember more than I can, and Pienza's almost level. San Gimignano's are not so steep.

A comment about agriturismo's and beautiful places like Casanova Pescille, which I've stayed at. If you stay outside of a town, and want to eat anywhere else, you'll have to drive there and back. And due to Italian (actually, European) strick drink-and-drive laws, the driver will have to carefully watch (or avoid) alcohol consumption. For that reason, and because we enjoy late-evening walks through town, we prefer staying IN towns such as San Gimignano. For example, we've stayed at Hotel La Cisterna in San Gimignano several times, and had wonderful views from their rooms; http://www.hotelcisterna.it/ (though the room pictures don't really show the wonderful views). Of course, it's a matter of personal preference - more for you to dream about!

annhig

i agree Lexma, though it does mean that we miss out on eating at the lovely agriturismi that people here rave about.