noddingheadgirl

My husband and I (newlyweds, in our 30's) are planning on going to Europe May 27/28 to June 13th of this year. It's a first trip for both of us. We are going to London, Paris, Heidelberg and Munich - flying into London and Munich home via Iceland Air is the plan.

We currently have hotels booked, but we can cancel them at any time.

We are thinking this trip might be pricier than we expected and we need advice. We currently are saying at ibis London Euston St Pancras (479.75 total GBP) , ibis Paris Opera la Fayette (470 total euro), Heidelberg Marriott Hotel ($210 total USD) & ibis MunichCity (347.70 total euro).

I love the locations of each hotel and looking for another set of hotels for each city is daunting after all the research I originally did.

Plus than we want to do some tours that we are planning on purchasing thu Viator & we want to purchase the London Pass and the Paris Passes- which is £200-£258 (for two people) depending on the city plus a pass for Heidelberg which is £14. Unsure regarding Munich yet. Than we are planning on a day trip with transfers to Disneyland Paris which is apparently £150 for two people. The tours would be a side trip to Stonehenge, Windsor Castle, Bath, incl Lunch ($266 total), a side trip to the Eagles Nest in Germany, a skip the line tour in Paris for Eiffel Tower, renting a car in Germany to drive to Munich, and the train travel from London to Paris and Paris to Heidelberg.

The airfare is running around $1991 for two people...

When it's all said and done (hotels, tours, airfare, plus food and drink) we are thinking it will be about a $10,000 trip and that's just overwhelming. I'm sure we could stay in hostels vs. hotel rooms but we like the privacy of a hotel room & by getting a private room, it seems to be close to the pricing I already have for the hotel.

Is this normal for a 16/17 day trip to Europe? Thank you!

PalenQ

Most here will say the London and Paris passes are a waste of money- including things you or most people would never do.

In Britain check out the 2 for 1 entry deals and in Paris if going to several museums buy a Paris Museum Pass for a few days at the museums - that gives you free and priority entrance at places like Louvre, etc.

And buy a carnet of metro tickets - Paris Pass, like London Pass, is way overkill and sound a lot better than they are thru marketing.

How are yous getting from Paris to Heidleberg - again you can save tons by booking very early at www.voyages-sncf.com or www.capitainetrain.com- huge savings over just showing up and buying tickets. For lots of details on trains - like the difference between first- and second-class seats check www.seat61.com- great info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

Heidelberg is just a few hours from Munich by train (www.bahn.de/en for discounted tickets like from France)- skip the car rental if just going between point A - Heidelberg and B- Munich unless you want to drive thru rural Bavaria and that is neat but not to just go between cities where cars are a liability really.
Book Channel train tickets at www.eurostar.com - sme early bird gets the worm.

And again NO to the London Pass or Paris Pass. NO NO NO.

noddingheadgirl

We are planning on stopping at Hohenzollern Castle en route to Munich and doing a day trip Neuschwanstein Castle the next day. That was another concern, parking the car but I really would love to see those castles - I do understand Neuschwanstein Castle isn't recommended at all, but we still want to visit.

I will look into those other passes- thank you!

historytraveler

Viator tours can be very expensive. I suggest you buy a good guide book and do the tours on your own. As for the skip the line tour at Eiffel Tower...you don't really. I looked at this particular tour and it's way over-priced. There are better options. The same for Stonehenge, Windsor Castle and Bath. All these can easily be done on your own and done much cheaper than with a tour company.

You don't say how long you plan to stay in each of these places. This can greatly affect what you'll be able to see and do. Thinking you may need to cut back a bit on your itinerary. IMO you can save a great deal by nixing all those passes and tours.

PalenQ

Ok makes sense and a sweet area to motor in - I love Neuschwanstein Castle and many folks do, making it one of Europe's most visited castles and according to the German Tourist Office the number 1 or 2 site in all of Germany for tourists.

a surprise at every turn and take time to hike up to the Marienbrucke for a bird's eye view of it all - lovely walks in the area - Fussen has many nice guest houses and Schwangau, by the castle has a lot too, being a resort in its own right.

Some here do not recommend Neuschwanstein - castle purists - but to the masses it's awesome to most, including moi.

The only thing to remember is to validate your tickets at one of the little yellow machines before you get on your train.

You can return your car in Fussen or other town on the way to Munich and take the train in.

noddingheadgirl

We are staying 4 nights in London, Paris, Munich and 3 nights in Heidelberg. We might push it back a day and end up having 5 nights in Munich.

Let's say we were going to do Stonehenge, Windsor Castle and Bath on our own, how would you suggest to do that? Where should we go first? Can we do it all via public transportation vs renting a car?

It looks like the Paris Museum pass (that was suggested by PalenQ) includes a skip the line feature for most of the museums? Than there is an option to purchase it for the Eiffel Tower which I'm leaning towards.

PalenQ

excuse my mistake in post above - disregard the bit about validating train tickets - copied by mistake meant to put in some images of the view from the Marienbrucke:

https://www.google.com/search?q=mari...HWh7Aa8QsAQIGw

noddingheadgirl

@PalenQ

Awww that does look beautiful! Yes, I know some do not recommend that castle, but I think it's one of those things you have to go DO at least once.

PalenQ

Let's say we were going to do Stonehenge, Windsor Castle and Bath on our own, how would you suggest to do that? Where should we go first? Can we do it all via public transportation vs renting a car?>

With only 4 days in London I would spend at most one on a day trip and to do all three the tour you suggest would be the only way save renting your own car - that's one tour I may keep in the mix. Would not save much by doing it on your own and would have trouble seeing all three in a day on your own.

Skip Stonehenge, which underwhelms many, then you could take a train to Windsor and Bath in one long day but again not optimum.

http://en.parismuseumpass.com/rub-m-by-name-5.htm

Don't think the Paris Museum Pass covers the Eiffel Tower though the Paris Pass could but is still way overpriced for what the average Paris tourist would do in 3.5 days there.

noddingheadgirl

@PalenQ-- it seems you can do an upgrade and it will cover skip the line Eiffel Tower- Think it's 15 EURO pp. But by eliminating the Paris Pass and the London pass, frees up some monies which is great. Do you know if you can purchase that London Pass ahead of time? I can't seem to find a link for it... ?

worldtraveler26

For airfare I've found skyscanner.com to be a great tool. I found half price tickets flying to Italy through Emirates. We are traveling in the fall and have found Airbnb has great deals in lodging. You can rent a whole apartment to yourself for sometimes half of what a hotel room will be. Our budget for a two month trip is $7,000 so for two weeks you can definitely do a trip for a lot less than 10K. Agree with other posters to try and do more tours on your own. Paris especially is an easy city to navigate if you get a good guidebook.

traveldawg

Do not miss Neuschwanstein. The purists may tell you to, but the location is great even if the castle is not that old. Do it. We first visited this in 1971 and have returned a few times with friends.

Stonehenge is famous but you will stay about 15 minutes and leave. They do not let you get close enough to touch the actual stones and walk inside. You view from a path around it.

Heidelberg. We have been here many times and enjoy the city. For a first time visit to this area I would recommend Rothenburg instead of Heidelberg. Roth is more interesting. The purists will tell you it is a tourist area, but there is a reason for that.

We rented a small apartment in Paris when there last in 2012. Great location near the Louvre and was about $200 per night. Had a kitchen, bedroom and living room. Worked great. You may want to look at something like that as the hotel rooms are expensive and they are like the same hotel rooms in the US. Our apartment was in a nice neighborhood and we felt like locals. We used Tal Paris at [email protected] and were pleased with the help.

PalenQ

Do you know if you can purchase that London Pass ahead of time? I can't seem to find a link for it...>

Many museums in London are free - British Museum; National Gallery; both Tate museums; Victoria & Albert (a favorite of mine for its eclectic collection sure to amuse all types), etc.

The 2 for 1 scheme operates like so:

Buy a Travel Card for a day or a week, etc at a national rail station and get a paper copy then you get 2 for 1 entry fees at most London paying sites - https://www.daysoutguide.co.uk/2for1-london - you have to print out 2 for 1 vouchers and then show a valid train ticket (not Tube) so you buy a paper Travel Card from any train station in London - and there are lots of them and then use that for 2 for 1 entry your whole visit - easier done than it seems. Others will explain this better from experience but it is not something that can be bought ahead of time.

did not know about the Eiffel upgrade - but if you want to save money and time in line you can walk - hoof it up the first two levels for free I think then take the elevator to the top - maybe 6 euros I read recently - and lines are shorter on the 2nd level at the lift than down below.

PalenQ

Oops got posted by mistake before I could put:

http://www.toureiffel.paris/en/explo.../going-up.html

This says it all - save over the 15 euros by walking up the first two levels (and down) and as they say the walk up is quite ethereally awesome.

PalenQ

This Fodor thread may shed light on the 2 for 1 entry offers and how they work:

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-card-help.cfm

jent103

I can really only help on London.

Others have said, but one more time: do NOT buy the London Pass. It's a waste of money. You have four days (is that four full days/five nights, or four nights?); currently you want to spend one of them on a tour, so you really only have two or three in the city. (And if you do that particular tour, I assume the cost includes admission to Windsor Castle anyway.) Of the other "top 10" things the Pass covers, the only other ones I'd consider going to in your circumstances are the Tower and Westminster Abbey, and maybe the War Rooms or the Globe if you have particular interests there. There's no way that adds up to £95 per person. The British Museum (and other fantastic museums), walking by Big Ben, walking down the Thames - that's all free anyway. St Paul's and the London Eye aren't included anyway. If you get to the Tower when it opens you probably won't have to wait long if at all to get in. The London Pass doesn't make any sense.

On the Viator tour: I haven't taken a tour with them; it sounds like people really like them. That combination of places in one day, though, sounds like a LOT. I can't imagine you'd have much time to explore Windsor Castle or enjoy much of Bath. If your style is to cram in as much as possible, awesome. If something a little more relaxed sounds good, I looked at the London Walks web site - it sounds like it would save you a little money if it fits with your schedule, and would be more relaxed. Something to consider.

http://www.walks.com/Standalone/Ston...r/default.aspx

In general, I'm a big fan of London Walks - they have tons of walking tours in the city as well as these days out.

You might try Priceline to see if you can find a better deal on a hotel, but that comes with inherent risk and only you know how you feel about that. I couldn't do much cheaper, but I will say that on Londontown.com I found similarly priced hotels in the Bloomsbury area (nearish the Ibis, but more convenient to other sites). If you're at all interested in looking into those options you might give that a try.

The good news is, once the hotel is taken care of, London can be relatively inexpensive. You can eat well at food stalls in Borough Market; wandering around and seeing all the iconic things is completely free; if your interests lean toward the British Museum or the fantastic National Portrait Gallery and V&A, you're all set. London Walks walking tours are inexpensive if you're into that. I haven't used the 2-for-1s myself, but they do sound like a good way to save money if you're okay with a little extra hassle.

jent103

Sorry, just saw that you have four nights in London, which I assume means your arrival day + three full days? In that case you might consider not even doing a tour outside the city at all, unless you have your heart set on Stonehenge. There is SO much to see in the city, and if cost is a primary factor, skipping it would certainly save you some money. Also, if you're not that into Stonehenge, Bath or Windsor Castle are easily done on your own via public transport, if you get to your last day and feel like you've ticked all your boxes in town.

One more comment as to whether your costs are "normal" - for a two-week trip to Europe, I generally spend around $3000 or slightly more altogether for one person. I'm a fairly budget-conscious traveler. You're more concerned about lines than I am , and more into group tours than I generally am (plus I have no interest in Disneyland), so your trip would be more expensive than mine in those ways. $10,000 for two people seems on the pricy side to me but not out of the realm of reason given your interests.

PalenQ

but yes your trip expenses can be slashed without giving up much - try airbnb for low-cost digs.

janisj

just a couple of quicks comments . . . not reading through all the responses but:

1) do NOT buy the London Pass,

2) you are allowing the same time to every stop. That really doesn't make sense to me. London is the largest (by a loooooong way) city in Western Europe w/ just tons of things to see/do. You are devoting more time to Munich - a relatively small city w/ maybe 10% of the major sites as London. (And I really enjoy Munich)

3) and Viator doesn't give tours. They are simply re-sellers. So IF you are taking any of 'their' tours you can probably find them cheaper directly from which ever company is actually conducting the tour.

4) >>Stonehenge is famous but you will stay about 15 minutes and leave.<< Must not have visited in several years. It is quite literally impossible to visit Stonehenge in 15 minutes. They removed the road and car park and moved the Visitors Center quite a distance out of sight of the Stones. One either takes the shuttles or walks across open land to get to the site.

Seamus

Some of this is repetitive of previous posts, but...
1.<b>London</b> - scale back your itinerary to one day trip at max. London offers so many things that leaving the city is not the best strategy on such a short visit. Museums, galleries, London Walks, markets, theater, neighborhoods, palaces, parks... You will be contending with jet lag the first day or two, anyway. Forget the London Pass, it is a low value proposition. Buy an Oyster card and load it with some value to cover a few days. There is a daily cap on fare paid; tell the agent at the window how long you will be staying and s/he will recommend the best option. The 2-for-1 offers with a travel card are an option, too, but take some more planning. Plus, the Oyster card is a nice souvenir and reason to return ;-)

<u>London to Paris</u> - Book your Eurostar train tickets as early as possible to get the best fare. It is such a short trip that second class is just fine. Pick up some food and beverages at the Marks & Spencer just in front of the entrance to the Eurostar gates.

2. <b>Paris</b> - also forget the Paris Pass. Unlike in London, almost every museum has an admission fee but even so the Paris pass is low value at best. Check opening times and costs, plan according to your interests. Rule of thumb is to plan no more than one morning and one afternoon activity. One of the joys of Paris is simply strolling, allow some time for that.
Everyone has a favorite restaurant (or two or more) in Paris; I really like Le Cosi on rue Cujas near the Sorbonne and Pantheon www.restaurant-le-cosi.fr/en/
For a fun option think about something like Fat Tire bike or Segway tour. www.fattiretours.com/paris
Unless you are an absolute Disney fanatic, give Disneyland Paris a miss. Not much there there. Do Versailles instead - an easy day trip from Paris on the RER.
Eiffel tower ascent is weather dependent - locking in date in advance can be risky.

Heidelberg - can't offer much, have not been. On advice of more experienced travelers, left it off itinerary for last Germany trip in favor of a couple days in <b>Nuremburg</b>, much less touristy but quite historic. Visited the actual courtroom where the Nuremberg trials were held, and the Documentation Center built on the grounds of the Nazi campground http://www.museen.nuernberg.de/dokuz...r-information/ The reluctance to address the Nazi past is relenting, and the documentation centers are described as a means to preserve the history of how the party and Hitler came to power rather than as a museum commemorate it. Very, very well done. Accessible by tram from central Nuremberg.

<b>Munich</b> - your hotel is in a relatively charmless but not unsafe area. Do visit the Hofbrau, much better than expected, and check out the English Garden park and some local beer gardens.
Quite out of character for my usual travel style, really enjoyed a bus day tour from Munich to Neueschwanstein, Oberammagau and Linderhof offered by Gray Line. http://www.grayline.com/tours/munich...unich-5868_13/ It was a full day but enjoyable and easier than driving. While in In Munich, make time to visit Dachau - takes up half a day. http://www.dachau.de/en/tourism/dach...rial-site.html

As noted, Viator is a re-seller. No advantage to using them, you can book directly with the tour operator, often as lower cost. Just google the tour you want - e.g., "Munich to Neueschwansteon tours"

Hotels - ibis is more or less akin to La Quinta or COmfort Inn in the US - basic, budget, consistent. Not always the lowest price. If $ is a concern - and don't overlook the value of an included breakfast versus additional $15-20 per person - check out alternatives on www.booking.com. Would not recommend airbnb or other vacation rental for your first trip to Europe.

Have a wonderful trip!