Planning 1st Europe trip

Old Jan 7th, 2016, 10:15 PM
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Planning 1st Europe trip

Hi all, this is my first post in these boards, just looking for a little insight to my particular situation. I've done a lot of reading and research, but now I'm looking for some more specifics.

My husband and I are planning our first Europe trip together, aiming for May 2017 (yeah I plan way ahead, I know). I've been abroad before but he never has. When I went, it was a school tour of London and 3 cities each in France and Italy, over 2 weeks. It was a quite torturous pace, and we only saw the most touristy of tourist things.

This time around, we want to do things a bit more on our own, and I'll be damned if I'm getting on a bus, haha. I originally had quite a few cities on the list, but after reading some of these boards I was pretty scared off from that plan. I narrowed it down to 6, that I think are all pretty definite.

Start in London (4 nights, to give us an extra day to get over the jetlag), then train to Paris (3 nights), train/plane to Amsterdam (3 nights), overnight train to Prague (2 nights), plane to Venice (3 nights) and then train to Rome (4 nights).

I know some of you are going to jump on me and tell me that's still too many. I'm a bit stuck because we can't afford to spend a week in all of these places, but I know my 1-2 night pace was awful, so I'm trying to compromise. I want to clarify that I know we will be back, and I fully plan on returning to spend significant amounts of time in a lot of these countries (a trip just for Italy is a must in the future). However, we plan on starting a family after this trip, so it will be our "last hurrah" so to speak, for a little while. I want to make the most of it!

For this trip, I'd like to do a bit more of an independent plan than my last trip, while still hitting the European highlights for hubs (he doesn't get out much, haha). Does this sound relatively doable? We are used to going hard on trips, in fact we have a difficult time relaxing in our room because we want to get sightseeing, but I know we'll also be planning some free afternoons/evenings and relaxing activities here and there to rest up.

Any suggestions about alterations to the way I have it set up? More/less nights in certain cities, plane vs train, etc? Ways to save precious time? I'd really love to see all of these cities, but if we cut out any more I think it would have to be Prague. Thoughts?

Anyways, sorry for the long post, just super excited and eager to get advice & start planning! Thanks to you all in advance
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 01:03 AM
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It sounds reasonable to me. Take the train from Paris to Amsterdam, but perhaps consder flying to Prague. You need to change trains in Germany to get to Prague, up to two changes, depending on the route/price/train you take. There is also a route with 5 changes but it doesn't save any money and just adds hassle.

I assume you are planning on flying home from Rome, not back tracking to London again?

Ifyou feel you want longer than add a day to London and perhaps two to Paris and drop Prague, flying to Veniice from Amsterdam.

You won't be able to book any trains until three months before you want to take them but make sure you book them as soon as you can, to get the best price. Look at discount airlines within Europe too.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 01:22 AM
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Kayak shows nonstop fares Amsterdam to Prague on KLM for fares as low as $71 in May of this year...2017 probably will not be significantly different, but who knows.

The flight takes 1:30.

That is cheaper than the train 2nd class fare - seat only.

(The KLM site shows 109€...still only a tiny bit more than the train.)

ssander
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 02:11 AM
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Hi

Welcome to Fodors and have great fun in Europe.
Your plan seems ok to me - maybe I'd take out one night from Venice and put it in London.

Just 2 remarks on trains vs planes.

Planes :
Planes always land outside the city so you have to add the time to travel to center to city and you have to add security time.
Low cost companies have huge restraints on luggage - double check if you take such companies like Easyjet, Ryanair etc.
Or don't take a lot of clothes and have them washed somewhere (best in a 'laverie' instead of at hotel (quite expensive).

Trains : for fast trains you have better rates if you book well in advance (90 or 120 days for Eurostar (London-Paris) and 90 days for Thalys (Paris Amsterdam).
I have no exp on trains in Italy.
Quite often the First Class is nearly at same price as second class. do check both. I just booked trains for my daughter (she get a special rate for being below 25) and the first was 2€ more exp than the second class...
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 08:00 AM
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>

Cities are not equal nor equivalent. London is 10x the size of Prague and nearly 30x the size of Venice. You can get the essence of Venice in two nights, in four you'll barely scratch the surface of London.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 08:09 AM
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Such great info from you all, thank you!

hetismij2: Great to know that the flight works out better than the train, with all the stops! I was worried about flying too much (I'm a bit of a nervous flyer) but it seems to be the best option for a few of these cities that are more spaced out. Yes, we would be flying home from Rome - it seemed to be much cheaper than doing roundtrip from London & having to arrange travel back to there from Italy. I definitely plan on booking trains as soon as they are available!

ssander: I have never heard of Kayak before researching this trip, but everyone mentions it, so I'll have to check it out! Thanks for the info!

whathello: I definitely plan on doing carry-on only & doing laundry every week while there. I've been doing extensive research on bags as well to make sure that I never run into any problems, especially on the smaller airlines. Any suggestions on luggage? I've been looking at Delsey quite a bit, their 19" cases seem to get good reviews about international travel. Good to know about the flights landing outside the city, so I can factor in the extra travel time for that. Are there normally intercity trains, or is taxi usually the best way from the airports to our hotels? As for the 1st/2nd class, we have been saving and still have over a year to save, so I plan on spending a bit more to be comfortable (but it's nice to know it's not TOO much more!).
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 08:13 AM
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bigruss: Sounds good, maybe I'll take a night from Venice and add it to London then. I've been there twice and absolutely love it, so no complaints here! Plus it will be a good segue, my husband has ever been out of the country before (except one day in the Bahamas haha) so it will be a good transition to the more foreign countries.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 08:17 AM
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bigruss: Although, I should mention, we are HUGE Disney fans and plan to spend one day at Disneyland Paris, so would it be better to add the extra day here, so that we still have 3 days in the city of Paris itself (I know the Disney park is a bit outside).
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 08:36 AM
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DLP is a bit outside but very easily reached by RER.
RER is like Metro (subway) but with much less stops and goes further out than Metro.

http://parisbytrain.com/rer-disney/

I guess it will take about 40 min but the station is just next door to entrance of the parks.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 08:54 AM
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OK - much as I love Prague 2 nights there is only one day of sightseeing and it is a trek to get there from anywhere else on your list - even flying - so I would drop it. (The shortest flight is going to be about 5 hours including time to and fro the airports, getting through security and the usual waiting around.)

I would definitely add a day to Paris since spending a day at Disney (are you sure - it's nothing like Orlando) will mean you have VERY little time there.

And overall I don't see where you have accounted for transit. You need to lay your trip out day by day and for each day list where you will start, what travel you will do and where you will sleep. If you do this I think you will see how little time you actually have in each place. Basically you need to allow 1/2 day of sightseeing time to get between your hotel in city A and you hotel in city B. And subtract this 1/2 day from your sightseeing time in one of those cities.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 09:17 AM
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We just went to Disney in Paris. Takes 40 min from Paris and is super easy. Also, it has it's differences from Orlando but it is very similar in many ways to Orlando. There's no mistaking you're in Disney haha

I am jealous of your trip! I would also add a day to Paris if you're going to Disney.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 09:55 AM
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whathello - thanks for the info on RER! Much easier than I was thinking, so yay!

nytraveler - I'm thinking the same, it looks like such a cool city but pretty out of the way for the rest of the stuff we want to see - maybe next time? Absolutely sure about Disney, I know it's not everyone's first choice of European sights but I would absolutely kick myself to be that close to a Disney park I've never seen and not go - plus, by looking at the attractions list, they have several things that we don't have in the states, so I definitely want to check it out. Question: do most trains run several times throughout the day? If so, for most transit I'm guessing we would take an evening train to spend most of the day in our location, arrive at the new location late night & sleep in a little the next day, so as not to waste an entire day on a train (i.e. Venice to Rome). Is this a good plan, or unrealistic? I haven't gotten as far as to research actual train times yet, except the sleeper trains.

kalnalcl - any tips for DLP that are different from the US parks? We go to Disneyland in Anaheim probably 3-4 times a year, and have been to Disneyworld in Orlando 3 times as well, so we generally can find our way around a Disney park, but is anything super different that I wouldn't be expecting - food, extra costs, etc?
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 10:26 AM
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A few comments: 3 nights somewhere is just two days to see/do/experience what you came for. You have to figure from the time you check out of lodgings in one place until you are all checked in at the next.

You have 3 nights in Paris - two full days, but you plan to spend one day at Disneyland. So you have just one day in Paris - not enough to get any sense of the place.

You will use up much of 2 days in order to get one day in Prague. When I plan my trips, I always look at the balance of time in a place vs. travel time. For be, that stop wouldn't make the cut. If you eliminate Prague, you eliminate two travel days and could add another night or two to Paris. You might end up with

London - 4 nights,
Paris - 5 nights (because one full day is at Disney)
Amsterdam - 3 nights
Venice - 3 nights
Rome - 4 nights

I think that would be a good first tip to Europe. You have enough time in each place to get a sense of it.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 10:36 AM
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Then I would pick 3 cities only for this trip and stay longer in each one. Your plan is certainly do-able as stated, but I think would be a lot more enjoyable with 4-5 nights instead of only 2-3 in each place.

Next trip, pick up the couple cities you leave out this time.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 10:36 AM
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London/Amsterdam/Paris works well together.

Paris/Venice/Rome works well together.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 10:40 AM
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London Ams Bxl Paris...
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 11:01 AM
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Then maybe skip Venice and Rome this time?

Keeping London, Paris, Amsterdam and Prague for this time would make an OK 2 week itinerary.

That's still plenty fast-paced, but allows 1/2 a day for changing cities each time, and 3 or 4 days in each city.
Old Jan 8th, 2016, 11:38 AM
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You've said you're going to go back, so this isn't a bucket list trip or a one-of-us-is-in-failing-health situation. With that in mind, I'd dump Prague, add the time to London (and Paris, especially if you're determined to bugger off for EuroDisney), and do a central Europe trip later.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 01:37 PM
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Booking train tickets way in advance can yield deep discounted fares so don't just buy tickets once there - book thru train sites of national railways or companies running certain trains - like Paris to Amsterdam www.thalys.com - I've seen tickets as low as 39 euros vs full fare of about 200 euros or so - early bird gets the worm - usually can book on that up to three months out I believe.

For the Prague night train the German Railways site - www.bahn.de/en.

You are not doing enough trains for any railpass to be viable. Sites with loads of great info on European trains - www.seat61.com- the best source of info on discounted tickets; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

For London to Paris - www.eurostar.com - for Italy www.trenitalia.com. First class tickets are also discounted and sometimes can be nearly as cheap as the cheapest available 2nd tickets at times and first class is always more comfy.
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Old Jan 8th, 2016, 06:26 PM
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The above mentioned German Railways site is the best for checking train times and connections for most of Europe.
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