seetheworld

I've seen lots posted on liquid/gel restrictions, but I have not seen this information passed along. This is really just a FYI...

My BIL, who arrived from the UK on Tuesday evening via BA, told us of a new procedure prior to take-off to the U.S.

The pilot announced that the passenger manifest would be &quot;sent&quot; and reviewed by U.S. immigration prior to take-off and that this could only be done <b>after</b> the doors were shut and locked and the aircraft pushed off the gate. The pilot further stated that the plane would be &quot;parked&quot; for between 60-90 minutes until this process was completed. For his (full) flight, the process took an hour.

From what I understand, this procedure will be in effect until further notice on flights from UK to US (and BIL believed on other airlines besides BA).

rex

Wow. In an era of modern information technology, it's hard to know why this should take more than 1 minute. They (can be? should be? are?) recording the passport number (and country of issue) of every passenger, right? And thi list of numbers is set well before they close the door to the aircraft (well at least a minute or two before). 2 seconds to send the file. 10 seconds for a (serious) computer to query the relevant database(s). 2 seconds to send the &quot;okay&quot; back.

An hour?

I suppose the extra time is needed for those individuals (or their &quot;numeric identities&quot which are &quot;no information listed&quot; in the relevant database(s).

Fascinating.

Best wishes,

Rex

seetheworld

LOL, rex, sounds exactly like the conversation that took place when I heard this news.

Well, at least you can now read a book to keep amused.

jody

The Advance Passenger Information required by the USA is a lot more than the passport number. I think I read where it's 34 different bits of information. From the BA website

USA
Laws in force in the USA require BA to collect the following information from all passengers travelling to and from the USA, prior to travel:-



Passport information, including passport number, country which issued passport, passport expiry date, given names (as they appear on passport), last name, gender, date of birth and nationality. The Alien Registration Number (Green Card) is also required for those who have US residency.




In addition, the following information is required for passengers travelling to the USA from the UK:


Country of residence


Destination address in the US for all passengers except US Citizens or residents.

jody

There's a big discussion of the information on Edw. Hasbrouck's The Practical Nomad site.

Sending all that information on several hundred passeengers would certainly take a bit of time.

jm0754

Does anyone know if this is the same procedure for flights to Canada as well?

seetheworld

Flights to Canada originating from the US?

My husband flies out on Monday to Montreal...I'll let you know.

rosieg

yes, it applies to flights from Canada going to the States or other countries..This from the Air Canada site but I'm sure it applies to all carriers. http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelin...html?src=hp_ql

This site explains it all and gives instructions for sending the information on line or to print out the form to bring to airport for check in.

Gavin

jm: This procedure (closing the aircraft door and waiting an hour, except for de-icing) is not used for flights to Canada from anywhere. As far as I know the first that Canadian authorities know who is on the plane is when we show up in Canada.

P_M

OMG, you're kidding me, I am shocked!! The plane has to sit for an hour+ so they can check the manifest? Geez, Louise....oh well, I suppose this is better than making an emergency landing in Maine to deport a dangerous criminal like Cat Stevens!!

Anyone remember that??

CAPH52

I do, P_M. Talk about ridiculous!

Clifton

Rex, I totally agree with you. If the database has this info to compare in the first place, it takes no real noticeable time difference to check a record with 34 fields in it than it does to check one with 8. Presuming the index key (PP #) is in a database. A machine lookup of 400 or so records should be a piece of cake. Done in seconds. Any person who bought a ticket and had info that didn't have a match, should have set off concerns at purchase, long before the passenger actually got on the plane, I'd think.

Kind of a side note, but I always kind of found it funny when people think data is moved in some sort of analog fashion. Like the movies where our heros hit the button, the money transfer begins.... and the heavies are almost upon them. And you watch the movie people's idea about how transfers work by watching a million dollars transfer <i>one dollar at a time!</i> on the screen, as if there were literally bills moving across the internet.

I suspect the deal here with the manifests is that it's got nothing to do with databases or computer searches at all and that things are not nearly so automated as we'd hope.

dutyfree

As a flight attendent who just came back from the UK to the US last night-it took only about 20 minutes to clear the manifest. In previous days, the checking of the manifest has taken upwards to 2-3 hours but it seems that each day is getting faster.

icithecat

So we have moved from the donkey up to the horse. Soon we should be up to the bicycle.

Girlspytravel

First of all, the checking of pax names on board an international flight against the US &quot;no fly&quot; list is nothing new; if you'll recall or follow the news at all, a number of flights have had to be turned around mid-flight or later in the past couple of years or so, because it was discovered after the flight took off that someone aboard was on the TSA no-fly list. Obviously, when an airplane has to turn around and go back mid-flight, because the airplane will not be allowed to enter US airspace due to the fact that someone aboard is on the no-fly list, this is not a good situation all around, for the carrier, the country involved, and the pax. This happened to the singer formerly known as Cat Stevens (but for decades now, his name has been changed to Yusuf Islam) a while back, and he was not allowed to enter US airspace.

The only difference now is, rather than requiring the list of pax names to be cleared from the no-fly list some 15-30 minutes AFTER take-off, thereby not delaying the departure time of the flight, the pax names MUST be cleared when the doors close, and BEFORE take-off, for flights outbound from the UK. This is not in effect for other international flights inbound to the US-yet.

It has always been the plan to hold the flight on the ground until the names are cleared, but there has been resistance from the airline industry, the countries involved, and various other assorted groups.

Now, there's virtually no governmental resistance whatsoever to the exercise of extra-terroritorial authority by the US, in the area of aviation security.

The no-fly list checks, implemented as one integral part of the TSA's multi-layered system of security measures, has been accelerated in light of the exigent threat situation in London and the rest of the UK. By requiring the clearance procedure before the flight takes off, the US hopes to eliminate these awkward situations where the flight has to be called back, because the airline discovered after takeoff that someone on board was on a no-fly list.

It is expected to be in place for all international flights sometime around the first of next year.

Here's a recent wire service article on the action:

news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060816/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/chertoff_ap_interview

As to the checking of the no-fly list, there is a special type of software that is used, but there are somewhere between 30,000-50,000 names on the list (the list is obviously not public), so it takes some time, in addition to which, there are many similar and also same names as the ones targeted on the list, which complicates the matter quite a bit.

marty

Does it not seem that if the doors are already closed, and the plane is sitting on the tarmac, if someone with a terrorist plan felt threatened, he or she would just go ahead with the plan with the plane on the ground?

AAFrequentFlyer

Welcome to &quot;Stupidity&quot; nation!

All this, so we can catch Cat Stevens?

Wow, I'm impressed. And totally ashmed of my country. I know some great women and men that are fighting for our freedom at the moment, and some that died for it, but now I'm thinking that it is all for nothing! So do many of the true fighters against our enemies, not the spinless, political and utterly idiotic, nazi like Homeland Security.

Girlspytravel

Marty-should an &quot;incident&quot; occur, the objective is always to keep the plane on the ground-always. Once an aircraft is airborne, the situation becomes totally different-the aircraft has the potential to be used as a weapon of mass desstruction.

Robespierre

WHAT?!

You're telling me that passenger names <i>aren't</i> checked against the no-fly list when the reservation is entered into the system (or when the '1' entry is made in the AAA - for all you PARS/Sabre programmers)?

Five years after 9/11, and this gaping hole still exists? I'm astounded. I could write the code in a couple of days.

Shame, shame.

AAFrequentFlyer

what happens when the passengers, do the following?

1. change flights
2. are bumped to a different flight
3. don't show up

etc, etc???

I'm not defending the process, but your thinking <b>robespierre</b> about the system is faulty.....