Parisian hotel lobby goes on the attack

Old Jun 24th, 2016, 11:41 PM
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Parisian hotel lobby goes on the attack

This article appeared in Friday's edition of Le Parisien.
http://www.leparisien.fr/economie/ai...16-5908951.php
It's important to note that the hotel lobby has not only lodged a complaint against AirBnB, but has included all vacation rental listings which appear on internet platforms. It's also important to note that the hotel lobby has an awful lot of "muscle".

The courts have accepted to pursue the complaint, since at least 6 serious crimes - punishable by prison terms - are linked to the way the agencies/individuals operate.
The most serious is linked to failure to declare revenue or pay taxes in France, which would put the operators in prison for 3 years for money-laundering. This means the property owner would go to prison, not the agency which represents the property, though it's possible that the agency might be involved as an accomplice.
Another is "acting as a hotelier or real estate agent without prior authorization as a member in a recognized organization".

AirBnB refused to comment on this article, only stating that the company was outraged over the actions of the hotel lobby, which doesn't understand the way people want to travel now.
AirBnB, which lists its fiscal residence in Ireland, even though France is the agency's 3rd most popular venue, only paid 90K euros in French taxes in 2014, based on an approximate 140,000 listings in Paris.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 08:16 AM
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I suspect we will be spending less time in Paris in the coming years, unless we win the lottery and can afford to buy a share in an apartment. Or will they also be cracking down on multiple-owner properties that are not otherwise "on the market" for vacation rentals?
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 08:40 AM
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Could be. There are taxes for unoccupied flats in some cities.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 10:20 AM
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AirBnB responds in such a childish way, that the govt doesn't understand that people want to do this. It doesn't care about anything but making money. IN a city like Paris with so many apartments and so much tourism, private vacation letting can affect so many issues that the government has to be concerned about -- the economy, current tenant and residents rights, govt tax revenues, character of the city if so many buildings are turned into vacation rentals only, businesses, foreign investment also affecting local owners and investors, etc. Airbnb doesn't care about anything but itself. They could disagree, but I don't understand how they would have the nerve to claim they are "outraged" by the hotel lobby's position.

However, the figures are a bit old, being quoted from 2014. I thought AirBnB made some arrangement with the govt to try to stave off trouble that AirBnB itself would collect taxes and turn them in. So that figure from 2014 should change, I thought (amt of taxes collected).
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 10:39 AM
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Regarding apartments voluntarily left vacant, the city of Paris raised the tax on secondary residences by 20% last year
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 10:42 AM
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Regarding apartments voluntarily left vacant, the city of Paris raised the tax on secondary residences by 20% last year and plans to increase that tax by 100% this year.

As for totally empty apartments, there is currently a tax of 12.5% of the yearly rental value the first year and a 25% tax the second year. The plan is to increase this tax by 400%.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 11:29 AM
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Christina: "AirBnB responds in such a childish way, that the govt doesn't understand that people want to do this. It doesn't care about anything but making money...Airbnb doesn't care about anything but itself."

I guess I'm childish too, I must not care about anyone but myself and only want to make money with my Airbnb listing. But to make money I must offer a good value, attractive accommodation and treat my guests well. It's what travelers want. Silly me, silly Airbnb for providing a valuable service.

Boundaries are being pushed, compromises will be made. Change will certainly include respect for the rights of residents and it will all come right in the end. I'm interested to see how Paris makes it work.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 11:35 AM
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Parisian hotel lobby goes on the attack

I was hoping for a thread about a rabid pack of tourist information leaflets.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 11:54 AM
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I was too, dotheboyshall, a much more interesting possibility than yet another of these.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 11:58 AM
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Apparently AirBnB doesn't understand the way that law-abiding citizens want businesses to pay taxes now.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 12:09 PM
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Airbnb collects and pays taxes where local governments require them to do it. Otherwise, we collect and pay the taxes ourselves, as I do, 10% bed tax to the county plus any income tax owed. Very straightforward. Except for those who enjoy not understanding better.

There will always be tax avoiders. But Airbnb reports our income where they're asked to report. They understand perfectly well and comply.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 12:32 PM
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you live in an area where it is legal to rent out your place . . . that has absolutely nothing to do w/ airbnb's activities in places like Paris and NYC. Total apples and oranges

Just saw that stupid airbnb TV commercial again last night about "Don't visit Paris, don't do Paris, LIVE in Paris"

They are actively promoting an illegal industry . . . in Paris not in NorCal.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 12:41 PM
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Some of the complaints above are specific to Paris. Some are just the the usual airbnb whining. And hall monitoring.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 06:00 PM
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I'm really disappointed. From the title I was expecting a horror story about a hotel lobby that swallowed guests - or checked them in but not out - like Hotel California.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 08:10 PM
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>>Some of the complaints above are specific to Paris. Some are just the the usual airbnb whining. And hall monitoring.in Paris. . . except you telling us you pay local taxes -- but that isn't in Paris so what it has to do w/ anything I'm not sure.

Participating in the discussion is allowed -- it ain't 'hall monitoring'
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 08:24 PM
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I can't be the only one feeling like something unpleasant around here is yapping at my heels.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 08:38 PM
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60% of the French use a holiday rental when they go on vacation. There is absolutely no problem with this outside the big cities.
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Old Jun 25th, 2016, 11:56 PM
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As I write this, I am at my vacation apartment located along the Mediterranean coast. I have rented this apartments each summer for over 13 years. It is perfectly legal.

If you own an apartment in Paris, rent it to others and this apartment is not your principal residence, what you are doing is illegal.

It's quite simple actually.
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Old Jun 26th, 2016, 01:20 AM
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Mme Perdu
It is a question of legality.
Renting owners who don't comply to the law is the same as buying Vuitton bags off the street. It is cheaper, but we all know it is illegal.
Before the new laws and the publicity, tourists could say they didn't know, now they can't.
So either you continue to rent from thieves (because they are... since they don't comply to the law and don't pay income taxes) via accomplices of thieves (AirBnb, because they are much more aware of the situation than we all are) or you pay the price.
Sure it is more expensive... I also would love to buy a brand new Porsche for 10 k$, but it is just not legally possible.
As for the owners of apartments in Paris, well ... they had their white bread, haven't they ?
Now they will have to cope with 1 digit yield or their investment. Like you and I from the bank.
No better than from the bank. Should I cry that they cannot have 20+% on their investments ?
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Old Jun 26th, 2016, 04:28 AM
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Well, based on the action in NY - the state legislature has just passed a bill that makes not just renting out but also advertising illegal sublets a crime - which should allow them to essentially shut down Air BnB in the city. It will be more difficult with some of the "agents" whose offices are actually in Nigeria or Ghana, etc - but I'm sure they will find a way to do so.

People simply need to understand that the availability of affordable apartments to tax paying locals is much more important than profits of Air BnB or other companies who are overtly flouting the laws. Until the day the bill passed Air BnB was jawing away about how they were negotiating with the state to make their services legal (just a delaying tactic).

Note this does no affect people who are subletting their entire house in vacation areas or even NYC - they are still entitled to do that. It's the subletting of apartments designated for city rent stabilization or middle income families that is illegal.
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