IMHO - almost every single thing you have listed is obvious - to anyone who has ever traveled abroad or read anything about Paris.

But meals are not late - they are normal hours - 1 pm for lunch and 8 pm for dinner. And waitstaff are NOT slow. They are giving you time to eat - restaurants in France are not Applebees (thank god! - trying to rush you through a whole meal in an hour).

nytraveler- this was my first time traveling abroad. These things were NOT obvious to me, my husband or my kids. They are simply a list of things I learned while traveling.

And yes, compared to most American standards, meals in Paris are late and wait staff is slow. We typically eat by 6:00 around here and are rushed in and out of the restaurants in an hour. We are also checked on many times and our water and drinks refilled often throughout the meal.

Not saying that the way things are done in Paris are irritating, just making a note of how they are different from what most Americans are used to- especially those who do not live in big US cities or those who have not traveled overseas.

"26. Take a short 1-2 hour nap on your first day- you'll feel better for it, then get outside and get some fresh air and sunshine"

I'll have to disagree with you on that. On one of my first trips to Europe I took a nap and had jet lag for a week. I've take more than a dozen trips since then, and I always stay up until nine the first night and have never had jet lag.

maitaitom- this was what worked for my family. We had no trouble with jet lag. Stayed up till 11:00-midnight every night and had no trouble sleeping or getting up and moving by 9:00 every morning. In fact, my son slept for about 5 hours upon arrival to the apartment and still had no trouble sleeping that first night or in dealing with jet lag the remainder of the week. What works for you doesn't mean it's what's best for everyone. In fact, I asked advice on jet lag before traveling, and my thread got 48 different responses. So again, this is just what worked for us.

Let me make myself clear, this is just MY list. Not saying anyone needs to agree with it. I guess I don't understand why people are so negative on this site. I asked a lot of questions on this forum before going to Paris, and got some great advice, but these were things we learned while traveling. What's with the negativity? Just because some of you have traveled extensively doesn't mean that the rest of us who are new to this can't post our thoughts without being picked apart. Wow.

I agree with egwright about the nap on the first day, it works that way for me. But I know that is a minority opinion on this message board.

I would be careful about using metro tickets twice or going in through an open gate without using a ticket, as there can be spot checks and if you do not have your ticket, you can be fined.

And many of these tips are not so obvious. They are sometimes the subject of controversial threads on this message board, such as what to wear and whether to stay in an apartment or a hotel.

It is always interesting to hear somebody's take on their travels.

Nikki- we always had a ticket to give to either the machine upon exiting or to show to the metro people who were spot checking tickets upon exiting. We were just surprised at the inconsistency surrounding tickets.

I'm not being negative, I just don't agree with you on that point.

#5 - you had better have a validated/used ticket if an inspector comes along. they won't want to hear that the gate was up.

You left off taking the bus, a great way to SEE around you as your are in transit.

DebitNM- we never rode the bus so I didn't include it.

This is a good list for first-timers. The problem is that newbies never look for these lists; there have been many lists posted here as advice for the uninitiated.

You can take what you've learned in Paris and translate that to other European countries and you'll be all set for your next trip.

Well - I can only judge by what I know - but eating lunch at 1 and dinner at 8 is NOT late. And any decent restaurant in the US - (not fast food chains) gives you 2 hours for dinner. Not constantly harassing you while you try to enjoy a meal.

I can understand if people rise very early and eat meals very early in some rural areas - but have never seen it myself. And would think that anyone who had visited a sizable city would be used to meals at a more reasonable hour - people are rarely even home by 6 pm. (Meals are later in some places - esp Spain - where dinner is typically at 10 pm).

And I don;t mean to be critical - but I would think that reading 1 or 2 guidebooks - or even watching a couple of episodes of the dreaded Steeeves would have made most of this obvious. He is, after all, aimed at the first time traveler.

To the OP: some posters can't help but criticize people presenting information they've learned - especially if the poster already knew what you are presenting. Take it in stride.

For a first timer, you presented the most valuable part of Paris trips - being polite by speaking the native tongue.

nytraveler- you may not mean to be critical, but you are.

People who live in suburbs with teenagers and who live by school schedules don't eat lunch at 1:00 and dinner at 8:00. I am up at 4:30 every morning, at work by 7:00, teaching by 7:45. My kids have lunch at school before 11:00 and that is the second lunch hour. They are out of school by 2:10 every day- dinner is by 6:00. Most families living like this do not go out to dinner often, so having dinner at a nice restaurant at 8:00 is not something that happens frequently; in fact, most of the time these experiences are limited to vacations. By 8:00 we're shutting down, finishing homework, and getting ready for bed...definitely NOT going to dinner at a nice restaurant for two hours.

I think that you need to accept that not everyone lives like you or has the same experiences. As I have said several times, this is MY experience. I read several guidebooks, asked questions on this site, read through several trip reports and, God forbid, watched Rick Steves, but these were all experiences for a first time traveler. In fact, my husband and I turned to each other and said, these are the things no one ever tells you.
This is ridiculous.

"To the OP: some posters can't help but criticize people.."

Nobody is criticizing the original poster, but, in my opinion, to tell people to take a short nap on Day One will work is is not necessarily good information for many. Everyone is different. I know a lot of friends who have napped their first day, and the first few days were miserable because of jet lag. My brother-in law was a mess for almost a week because he took a two hour nap on Day One. Ot screwed up one of my trips. Others, like the poster can nap and it works. Terrific. But to just say, "Take a short 1-2 hour nap on your first day- you'll feel better for it," is just not true for a lot of travelers.

I love the rue Cler. Others here hate it. If you want to go...great. If not...that's cool, too. You can have differing opinions on this board, or has that changed in 2013?

We've had many a thread debating napping or not and it will continue!

Everyone needs to figure out what works best for them. Same with rue Cler.

26. Take a short 1-2 hour nap on your first day- you'll feel better for it, then get outside and get some fresh air and sunshine.

maitaitom
I'll have to disagree with you on that. On one of my first trips to Europe I took a nap and had jet lag for a week. I've take more than a dozen trips since then, and I always stay up until nine the first night and have never had jet lag.

When we took our first trip several years ago...I had read stay up,keep going on your first day...I tried but sometimes the body just doesn't do what you want.

After arriving I had to stop and lay down for about an hour. I didn't have any jetlag for the rest of the trip and I had no problem going back to sleep that 1st night. You should trust your own body,do what is best for you.

egwright10--While I have been to Paris a handful of times, I still appreciate your list. What works for you might work for others. The thing with the metro tickets that DebitNM mentioned is important. Anyway, I am with you and rarely eat as late as 8pm, etc. My days are much like yours. Anyway, I just wanted to give you some encouragement to keep posting and don't let the negative nellies get to you. There are plenty around here, but there are also nice people around too. We all were first time European travelers at one point and we need to put ourselves back in those shoes on occassion Sounds like you had a good time and will go again.

Dear eg,
Without being negative, I think what puzzles readers is that you clearly did your homework:

"I asked a lot of questions on this forum before going to Paris, and got some great advice, but these were things we learned while traveling."

and " I read several guidebooks, asked questions on this site, read through several trip reports and, God forbid, watched Rick Steves, but these were all experiences for a first time traveler. In fact, my husband and I turned to each other and said, these are the things no one ever tells you.

The paradox is your list is filled with elementary things, contained in almost every Paris trip report or travelogue. So I think what may be perceived as criticism is more puzzlement.

apersuader65- Thank you!

I don't understand #18 - People in Paris don't drink water like we Americans do. What does this mean?

"You should trust your own body,do what is best for you."

Exactly my point! There is no ONE way that is correct for everyone.

eg, thanks for writing this list. We can all learn from each others experience's, well if we don't know everything allready

But we can also very easily pick up misinformation if we read thinking that this is anything but completely subjective observations of a first-time traveler. It's just one person's experience and would best be presented as such, instead of "tips."

29FEB,
Elementary? Maybe, but simply put, they are just things I learned.

Perhaps I should change the post "title". They aren't necessarily tips for everyone- things that I wish I'd known more of and things that you hear but don't really believe until you experience them yourself. Not sure what you think are elementary?

The trip reports I read on this forum usually included things about specific restaurants, food choices, shopping, things to avoid...I wish I'd seen something about the beggars with puppies and their children on the street-- I had no idea. Also about the kids trying to get you to sign their lists--how annoying! I would have been better prepared. But in all the stuff I read, I never saw any of that.

Comments about food and language, understood? Maybe. But until you're actually there you don't know what it's like. I traveled with my husband and teenagers NONE of whom knew any of the language and once we were there they realized how important knowing just a little of it was.

Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but I think it should be said to people who are new to traveling abroad and who are nervous about it, that learning some of the language and opening yourself up to the cultural experience will really help them during their travels.

I think most of the reports I read were written by people who had traveled several times to Paris and offered a different perspective. Two of my good friends who have been to Paris four times now, were shocked when I said that the city was gritty and dirty. They said they've never seen trash and graffiti! I said they travel with rose colored glasses. When I mentioned that the neighborhoods leading up to Sacre Coeur were a little rough, they were shocked again! They just couldn't believe it when we said we didn't necessarily feel safe walking certain streets in that area. Everyone has a different experience.

No one should be puzzled by what I've written. This isn't rocket science. Just my thoughts on a trip I took. No one told me some of these things and I really wish I'd known-- especially about the confusion, lines, and different rules of flying out of a foreign airport. What would have taken an hour in the US, took nearly 3 hours in Paris. So, I did my homework leading up to the trip, but even then, there were things I learned.

adrienne- regarding the water: when you sit down to eat in an American restaurant, everyone at the table is offered water as well as any other drink they order. Our experience in Paris was not like that. We had to specifically order water and only those people who ordered it were given some. The glasses were small and never refilled. The wait staff returned to our table only occasionally, so asking for more was sometimes an inconvenience to them. So, we started by ordering water for everyone at the table and sometimes an extra glass/bottle or two just to be sure everyone had enough.

<<I wish I'd seen something about the beggars with puppies and their children on the street-- I had no idea. Also about the kids trying to get you to sign their lists--how annoying! I would have been better prepared. But in all the stuff I read, I never saw any of that.>>

I wish you had, too, but in fact there are threads on Fodors almost every day about these issues.

Your comments about the level of formality and learning the language are great - they can never be reinforced enough.

My only puzzlement is in saying things like the Parisians serve frîtes with practically everything, the Parisians LOVE ham, they get up late, etc...OK, those were your observations regarding a handful of Parisians you encountered; not facts.

But that's OK. I'm sure there's enough good info in here to help out some new travelers.

Thanks for your posting Eg.

As I said, you clearly did do a lot of research before your trip.
I wonder if the difference is akin to "book smart" vs "street smart."

Some things just don't sink in until one actually experiences the reality,
which of course is true for most people.

I'm glad you had a good family trip.

StCirq- frites were served in the nicest of restaurants with some of the best dishes I've ever eaten. I was just surprised by that when fries in the states are mostly reserved to burgers and kid's food.
Sandwiches, eggs, burgers- were all served with ham. Even a chicken sandwich at Laduree had a slice of ham as a garnish on top and was served with Laduree frites.
On the mornings we got up and out early, there was nearly no one on the streets and even the stores were still closed (this was at 9:00!) When you're used to stores opening at 5:00am and people being out to run or get to work before 6:00am, 9:00 was late. We'd stop in to one of the local cafes for petite dejeuner around 9:00 and the place would be empty. If we came earlier, it wasn't even open yet.
My observations? Yes.

Again, these are your experiences, and they are interesting and should be taken for what they are...your trip experiences. But nothing is set in stone on any vacation.

You wrote about the "confusion, lines and different rules of flying out of a foreign airport and what would have taken an hour in the US took nearly 3 hours for you." Well, that doesn't happen every trip.

On this trip, it took us 30 minutes to go through Immigration/Customs at CDG. It took us nearly 3 hours at LAX when we returned hone. It took us ten minutes to check in at CDG for our flight home and we were at our gate in half an hour. I wouldn't tell people that CDG is a breeze, because for our friends it took them more than an hour just to check in, and I've also had my problems at CDG. The last time I went through CDG, I had my camera stolen by security.

I'm just saying, had this been my first trip to Paris, come back and written, "getting through CDG is as easy as pie," people would rightly disagree with me on this Forum. The next time you go, maybe CDG will be a breeze like it was for us. Every trip is different.

This is why most trip reports just state what the experiences were for them. I've been to Paris more than a dozen times. I have never been pick-pocketed, nor ever seen it happen. I would never in a trip report state, "There are no pickpockets in Paris." I've never had kids want me to sign a list. I've never even had the ring scam pulled on me. That doesn't mean I look at Paris with Rose-colored glasses, it just means it hasn't happened to me.

We were offered water,"sparkling (with gas, etc) or plain"" at most restaurants in France, but I would not say that is the norm because I have only eaten at a finite number of restaurants, so maybe we just hit the ones that offer water

Nobody is saying don't tell about your trip and what you feel. Many of things on your list I totally agree with. There are some, obviously, that I don't. Don't take it personally. Just because it happened to you, does not mean it happens to others or what is right for you is right for others. That's what makes traveling fun and unique.

You made a lot of great points that many would do well to pay attention to, especially on their first trip to Paris.

There is always disagreement on even the simplest things on this forum. Many will appreciate your points, tips or whatever Fodorites want to call them. I happen to agree with a lot of them.

Anyone can accept the advice or choose not to. It should always be understood that these are one person's observations.

I appreciate you sharing and look forward to your report...and you survived Paris with teenagers!

Well, I'm used to some store that are open 24 hours. And supermarketets are usually open by 8 am. But other types of stores typically don;t open until 9 or even 10 am here - although they are usually open until 8 or 9 pm - and in some neighborhoods midnight.

I would expect streets to be deserted at 5 or 6 am (aren't people sleeping - who gets up that early voluntarily?) Out work hours are from 9 to 5 - but that really means 9:30 to 7:30 or so - or until the project is done when you're on deadline. (That's why no one is eating dinner at 5 in the afternoon.)

Paris is a big city and I would expect it to operate like other big cities, not like small villages (again, no stores are open before 9 am) or farms.

And dining doesn't require "patience" it requires relaxation. If you gobble down dinner in an hour at 6 pm what do you do with the rest of the day. Dining from 8 to 10 pm with a nice wine and then a romantic long walk home through lovely places is a delightful way to spend an evening. Otherwise what do you do from 7 pm to midnight?

I guess I'm used to European customs as I never noticed about the water (or perhaps I noticed when I originally went to Europe and have forgotten). I normally order water as my beverage (when I'm not ordering wine) and don't think twice about it. When ordering water I ask for a carafe, not a glass. Ordering water is something I would never have thought to mention to anyone since I've never had a problem obtaining it.

Did you notice that coffee is served after the dessert, not with dessert?

I don't feel that these customs are worth worrying about. You can always ask for water when you want it. Certain things become self evident.

BTW - if you want an early coffee then go to a bar, not a cafe. Every neighborhood has bars that open early. Same in Italy.

Some of the things you mention are the difference between city life and suburban life and apply to US cities as well as European cities.

I know what I do after 7:00 in Paris Lots of times I go to concerts or dance performances or theater. And in Paris it is hard to eat dinner at many restaurants before the theater. It is good to know which types of restaurants serve food continuously, such as brasseries and some cafes, if you want to eat before the theater or an evening out . Yes, there is the option of eating after the theater, but this is too late for many people, especially if they are getting up early to go sightseeing.

Even at home I eat earlier than 8:00. I am out most evenings playing music. Many people have evening activities. Everybody does not live the same lifestyle. Even in New York, which is where I grew up and where I visit frequently, restaurants serve earlier than they do in Paris. I see many people in restaurants before the theater in New York.

"Also about the kids trying to get you to sign their lists--how annoying!"

Sorry, but what does this mean? What lists?

I was pretty worried on my first trip to Paris that I would look completely unfashionable and really stand out. But honestly as long as you're actually dressed (that is, no pyjamas/sweats etc.) you'll be just fine. I don't think Parisians are inherently more fashionable than the rest of the world, I think they maybe just take a little more time on the whole, keep it simple and therefore seem more put together. But I certainly never got any snide looks about my simple sandals and cotton sundresses

I was also surprised at how nice most Parisians seemed to be; you hear a lot of negative things about their attitudes to tourists. But you're right, as long as you're friendly and polite, and at least try to speak a bit of French, people will treat you kindly in return, and most of them will gladly speak English. I think at worst they found my attempts at French amusing, but no one was mean!

I think #30 is a great one to note. I was glad my co-travelers and I remembered to pack our environsax (re-useable bags) on our recent trip. We used them everyday, and were struck that the vast majority of shoppers at the Carrefour near our apartment brought their own bags. I don't think that's terribly common in much of the US, or at least not where I live. People do it, of course, but not to the extent that we noticed in Paris.

Next time you want water at a restaurant ask for "une carafe d'eau" and you'll get a bottle/pitcher large enough for everyone and won't have to ask for individual glasses. It's just tap water and it's free.

It was an interesting list.

May I add one more, please?

Whatever you post on Fodors about travel will attract a lot of people who will tell you, "that's not the way."

Good for you because you took the most important thing with you, your manners.

That always makes for an outstanding trip.

I love Paris!

I don't have time to read the whole thread will come back later- but just a comment about the mealtimes, and nytraveler vs. egwright10

nyt lives in Manhattan - most Americans don't. 8PM actually IS quite late for dinner in some parts of the country. Dinner rush starts around 5:30PM and some even nice places stop serving around 9PM. This seems especially true in rural areas/smaller towns.

I personally prefer the later meal times, but nyt should realize NYC isn't the whole country.

egwright10: I'm glad you posted your experiences and I had to smile while reading some of your items. I've been basically going to Paris, almost annually, since the mid-70s and when I think back to the very first trip, I can understand many of your observations.

It's a list that could help some newbies, so I see no harm in posting it. Glad you had a great trip.

Happy Travels!

I liked all your observations. They are among the observations I made on my earliest trips abroad, and they are things that still strike me after many trips. I think those who were critical must have been in a cranky mood yesterday since all you offered were your observations. Others have followed up with additional good observations.

France is a high context society, a place where there are many rules, and we don't know them until we learn them. You have done very well except on the ticket issues, where I shudder to think what would have happened had you been caught. I will simply say that ignorance of the law is no excuse. But you were lucky!

I hope you are looking forward to your next trip. The tough part will be deciding whether to go back to Paris, where you already know a lot of the rules, or going to England or Italy, where there is a whole new set of rules to learn!

As for the dinner hour, we are of course talking about restaurants. When I'm on vacation, in the US or Paris, we eat late--maybe not 10, but usually 8. But we have always eaten later than 6 for sure!!
And something not exactly covered by the checklist, that table at dinner is "yours" for the evening, if you want to linger. And the waiter will not be constantly pushing you for your next course, and most especially for your check--you have to ask for it.
And yes, Europeans have learned MUCH better than we have to be conservation minded and bring bags--otherwise you can pay for them. Take your bags HERE to the supermarket. We don't need more plastic.
Also, definitely in the no nap the first day group.

Hoosier Reader, I see nobody has answered your question about the kids trying to get people to sign their petitions. This is a form of panhandling. People approach you with petitions to sign and ask for donations for phony charities.

Yes - but Paris isn't a small town or a rural area. Why would one expect it to be like a small town - rather than like other large cities?

Unless the OP hasn't eve visited other large cities - or somehow missed the differences between big cities and rural areas - or eaten in real restaurants versus fast food joints - many of these things should NOT be a surprise.

I 'm sorry if I sound cranky - but I feel like I just saw a huge list of items like:

The earth isn't flat and you won't fall off
The streets are full of traffic
Everyone in France speaks French
You don;t get automatic refills on all your beverages (you don't in cities in the US either - or in restaurants anywhere)
They don;t serve breakfast at 6 am (no - most people are still sleeping - same as in the US)

One of the questions I would ask when doing workshops on cultural differences is this:

You are invited to a party at 6 PM. What time do you actually arrive?

The differences, like when one appropriately eats dinner, were enormously varied. And these were only from people who live in the United States.

The fact that everyone else in the world laughs at New Yorkers who stand "on" line rather than "in line" doesn't stop New Yorkers from saying it nor mean that they don't ever get to the head of the line.

These are customs. No one is born knowing customs. You don't learn about what it is like to be in Rome from Woody Allen's latest fantasy. You learn the way children learn, but bumping up against things and adjusting your behavior. We don't slap children who don't know how to eat an artichoke. We explain and encourage them.

My family never ate dinner before 7:30, by the way, and I have eaten artichokes since I was a toddler.

It doesn't matter to me where I am, since I wake up with the sun, I like to eat dinner early.

It's never been a problem for me to eat at 6 or 7 wherever I've been.

The only place it hasn't made sense for me to get up at the crack of dawn is Spain. The last time we were there it was difficult to get an early morning coffee so we got into the rhythm of the late night dining.

"Yes - but Paris isn't a small town or a rural area. Why would one expect it to be like a small town - rather than like other large cities?"

Restaurant hours in Paris are not like restaurant hours in the US, including large cities. In Paris, most restaurants (as opposed to brasseries and cafes) are not open for dinner until 7:30 or later. In the US, including every large city I know, including New York, restaurants are open for dinner much earlier than that. If you are expecting restaurants to be open at 6:00, it is useful to know that in Paris they are not.

If you are expecting dinner at a restaurant to take an hour to an hour and a half, it is useful to know that in Paris it takes longer.

The list is things that the original poster learned. If they were new to her, they will be new to somebody else also.

nyt: At the finest restaurants in SF for example dinner service can start at 5:00 or 5:30 . . . Why do you find it so hard to understand why the later hours could be surprising to a first time visitor?

I agree with E G that the begging in the streets, whether overt or as post-petition signing, is surprising and disconcerting. Even in England it is veiled as Big Issue selling.

<< ... begging in the streets, whether overt or as post-petition signing, is surprising and disconcerting. Even in England it is veiled as Big Issue selling.>>

wrong, wrong, wrong.

The Big Issue exists to offer homeless people and those at risk of homelessness the opportunity to work and earn an income. Sellers have to buy the paper then sell it for a profit which they keep.

I have never encountered any seller behaving in any way that could be described as begging. They are polite and never insistent.

Even David Cameron described The Big Issue as ‘a fantastic example of how we can reduce dependence on state hand-outs’.

nytraveler- I have traveled to several big cities throughout the US: San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Phoenix, Chicago, Miami, DC, Philadelphia, and New York. However, dinner is always available by 5:00 in any of those places regardless of the type of restaurant you choose to dine in. Even with kids we don't eat fast food so your suggestions in regards to that are ridiculous. I feel as though you live a very different life from the people I know. In my world being up and even out of the house before 6am isn't unusual. So suggesting that you can't get breakfast at 6am because most people are still sleeping is ridiculous. In Phoenix, most people are leaving the house before 7am for work. And you DO usually get automatic drink refills at restaurants in the US. So you don't like my list? Don't comment. Have a little class.

I knew there was a reason I didn't want to return to NYC for anymore visits. Now I remember why.

I will return to Paris next year, though.

I would rather have people trying to sell me a paper than the "I will work for food" guys we have on our street corners in San Diego.

It's also better to see people working at taking care of a public restroom than hanging around doing nothing while they collect public assistance here.

apersuader65- Haha! Funny. The thing is, my OP mentioned the manners of the French...for a guy who seems to know so much about traveling and Paris, he appears to have forgotten those classic French manners. Oh well.

On a separate note, I've now been home for 3 days and the longer I am away from Paris, the more I want to return. I found myself dreaming of cappuccino and soupe a l'oignon gratinee today, as well as the sound of french being spoken around me and the beautiful views around every corner. I assume this is normal for those of you who love Paris?

LSky- the kids I saw were all deaf and were trying to get people (tourists really, as they were conveniently placed at very tourist heavy areas) to sign their petitions and give a MINIMUM donation of 70E! We were bombarded by these kids on a bridge by Notre Dame, Place du Tertre, and the Eiffel Tower. There were easily 15 kids at each post and so we weren't asked just once, but several times at each location. No one tried to sell us anything, they just wanted "donations".

Most of the people asking for money on the streets really played the sympathy card to get money- they had puppies, were dressed in military uniform, and even had their children!- on the street with them. The funny thing was, that we saw several of these people get up and talk on their cell phones. The one thing was was VERY different in comparison to the homeless in the US, not even one of those people directly asked for money and they were genuinely polite to those people who put money in their cups- they always said thank you. In the US I have been yelled at for not giving people money.

"When you're used to stores opening at 5:00am and people being out to run or get to work before 6:00am, 9:00 was late"

Where do you live that so many stores (and what type?) open at 5:00 a.m.?

"I found myself dreaming of cappuccino and soupe a l'oignon gratinee today, as well as the sound of french being spoken around me and the beautiful views around every corner. I assume this is normal for those of you who love Paris?"

and escargot...and vin rouge at a cafe in the rain...and Beef Bourguignon...and...."

Every day away from Paris just makes me want to return. I only wish there was a way we could be beamed there like Star Trek (see your #27).

Don't get too worked about the posts that seem negative. There are always some whose posts seem a bit sharp! There will definitely be lots of disagreements no matter what you post.

But, yes....I always miss my cafe creme and pain au chocolat (and all things Paris) when I get home.

vjpblovesitaly- I live in a suburb north of Phoenix. The grocery stores here all open either at 5:00 or 6:00am. The drug stores (CVS, Walgreens) open at 8:00. Where I grew up, in Western NY, the grocery is open 24 hours a day.

I also think there's an East Coast/ West Coast difference in times. Because we on the West Coast have to work with people on the East Coast and Europe, we'll typically start work earlier, like 8:00 or 8:30 and then end earlier too, so that our days overlap more. And anyone with kids likely has an earlier shift to their schedule, my 4th grader goes to bed at 8:00pm so I would not be going out to eat at that time! Here dinner is served at 6:00 and we all get hungry even on the weekends when we could eat later if we wanted.

Very good point Monica. 8:00 P.M. in NYC is only 5:00 p.m. on the West Coast.

Here in the midwest, we watch the 10 o'clock news, not the 11 o'clock news.

Monica I agree that there's a difference in times. I, for one, have no problem here in L.A. eating early at restaurants. If they have a time when they close after lunch and then reopen for dinner, it's not unusual that they reopen at either 5PM or 6PM. I seldom start eating at 8:00PM, although I'm a real night person. One can see from many of the times that I post on Fodors, that I can easily still be up at 2:00AM. But, that doesn't mean that I want to eat at 8PM. I get hungry early and thus eat early.

For over 30 years, I arrived to work around 7:15AM-7:30AM, up until a few months ago when I retired early, although I still work. Even on vacation I like to eat early which is why I rent apartments and have a kitchen. When I go out to eat in Paris, with Parisian friends, then we arrive at 7:30PM. But, a lot of times, I've already had my meal and then at the restaurant I will eat something very light to be social. I don't like a lot of food on my stomach late at night as I don't sleep well.

Happy Travels!

"I assume this is normal for those of you who love Paris?"

It seems these days I cannot pick up a book, see the television or even speak to someone without Paris coming up. It's been following me around and when it started I tried to avoid it but it's unavoidable, I must return to Paris.

tarquin: Big Issue vendors are not begging. They are selling an actual magazine and making legitimate ££.

They are working their way out of homelessness

http://www.bigissue.com/
http://www.bigissue.org.uk/

The same exists in France. The magazine is called "L'Itinérant."

OK, I was wrong. Because I do not actually want the Big Issue, I only buy it as a "donation."

egwright, thanks for the list. It contained many of the things I learned on my first Paris trip over 20 years ago. One thing you may have learned posting here is not everyone will take what you write in the spirit it which it was written. Take out the words Paris and French and you'll find the list could be about most places in Europe.

Getting around Paris Question: How about the VELIB bikes that many use in Paris? 30 minutes free. Exchange bikes after you visit a museum, monument, or have a lunch or dinner.
Has anyone done this?
MickMouse

Mick: You might want to start a new thread w/ your specific question instead of tacking on to a long thread about different things.

Thank you for explaining why young people approached me to sign a paper while I was in Paris this past summer. The sheet was on a clipboard and I thought once they put the clipboard under my nose someone would try to get into my purse or pockets. I said "no" and kept walking. Two days later, as I was near Sacre Coeur, I saw a policeman with some of these young ladies. He was frisking them, taking away their clipboards and pencils. What I found really strange was the way he frisked them. As he had them turn their backs to him he patted down their backs and make a "poke" in the center of each back with his knuckles (not hard, just a soft poke) before letting them go. The "poke" was a bit weird.

For the first time someone picked up a ring and walked over to me with it. I laughed and kept walking.

I was traveling alone and kept with my normal routine of going to dinner around 7pm. Sometimes I was the first person in the restaurant. That didn't bother me. Only once did I have a reservation for a very busy restaurant.

Something that bothered me was seeing so many young people smoking. One day there was a big music festival held throughout the city. Bands were set up every block or two. It was great fun. The weather in the evening was perfect and many, many people were out. It was clear to me that the majority of people were dining outdoors. I ate indoors most of the time as they could not smoke indoors. Where the outdoor tables were full, there were empty tables inside. As I walked around the city on the music festival evening I could barely breathe because of all the heavy smoke. Other nights it wasn't as bad, but it appeared that every young person had a lit cigarette. I don't remember noticing that during previous visits to Paris.

On the same trip, I found fewer young people smoking in Belgium and Holland, but people still were eating/smoking at outdoor restaurants while I ate inside where there were empty tables. Granted, it would have been nicer to dine outdoors. In all things, there are trade-offs.

Enjoyed reading this thread - thank you for sharing your experience - I think for new travellers there it will be very helpful.

Ah, egwright10. You've learned a valuable lesson today. God forbid, you should, in good will, post a list of helpful suggestions re travel. Every travel snob within miles will come out of the woodwork and either try to "one-up" you or just criticize or tear down your input. Good for you to keep responding . See ya.

egwright10:

Thanks for sharing your list of things that you learned while traveling in Paris.

I do hope you will post a trip report.

Sandy