My husband and I are planning our honeymoon to France and northern Spain, and we could use some advice on our itinerary. We would like a mixture of sightseeing and relaxing; neither of us have ever been to France, so we want to see the major sights, but we don’t want to run ourselves ragged jumping from place to place the entire trip. In general, we are pretty comfortable going off the beaten path, though neither of us speaks French (I have the basics from Pimsleur). We are in our early 30s and are most interested in historical sites (love the idea of seeing Roman ruins, etc.); we are not at all nightlife/club people. Roughly speaking, we were thinking to spend 1 week in Paris, 1 week for Provence (including possible stopover in Dijon or Lyon) and 1 week in Spain. The first draft of our itinerary is below, and we would be very thankful for any advice or insights you can provide!
Fly in to Paris, spend 1 week (including day trip to Versailles)
Train to either Lyon or Dijon (or somewhere else along the way?). Thought it might be nice to spend a few days here before getting a car to drive to Provence region. Time to recover from sightseeing in Paris and relax. Thoughts on which city would be better? Lyon looks to have some interesting ruins, but Dijon may be more laid back?
Drive to Provence, possibly base ourselves in Arles or Avignon? How many days would we need to do justice to this region? We would like to see the ruins in Nimes and the Pont du Gard, and possibly also do a little exploring in the countryside. Again, interspersing some sightseeing with soaking up the country and sitting in cafes.
Train/car to Barcelona to begin Spain portion of trip
Paris to Provence honeymoon itenerary
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Your itinerary looks fine. Dijon is my second favorite city in France - but Lyon is "up there" too. However, don't drive to Provence from either - take the TGV. The drive is not scenic - until you get to upper Provence. There are better TGV connections to Provence (Avignon) from Lyon than from Dijon - although there is a good morning no-train-change TGV from Dijon. Check the train schedules against your actual itinerary - often there are different schedules on different days of the week.
I would not base in Avignon. It has lots of ugly urban sprawl in every direction except west. You don't want the first & last drive of the day to be through this ugly stuff - I prefer vineyards, sunflower fields, and lavender along the way. Consider basing in St Remy or the Luberon. Arles is OK - but a little farther away from the "main" sites.
Do you have my 27 page itinerary for Provence & Cote d'Azur??? My wife & I have vacationed for 18 weeks in this region. I've sent the itinerary to over 3,000 people on Fodors. E-mail me at StuDudley@aol.com if you would like a copy & I'll attach one to the reply e-mail.
Stu Dudley
Staying in St Remy will be near Roman ruins. There's a great hotel in town with parking, L'Hotel des Images. You wouldn't know you were in a town for in back of the hotel there's a little pond, a postage, a labyrinth and the Alpilles looking down at you.
sorry, too late to correct potager, a vegetable garden.
What time of year is your trip?
The train to Barcelona is a long trip, usually overnight with a change. Driving is much quicker, but check the drop-off fee (for dropping the car in another country).
Vueling flies from Nice to Barcelona. Flying saves time from the train, and the fare might be less than the drop-off fee for the rental car. And Nice is a great place to visit.
Thank you all so much for the advice!
Mimar - our trip will be from the end of May to beginning of June (around May 20 - June 8).
That's a nice time of year to visit Europe. But it starts to get hot in southern Spain. Depending on where you're going in Spain and your tolerance for heat, you might consider reversing your trip, starting in Spain and moving north -- if you haven't already bought your plane tickets.
Thoughts on which city would be better? Lyon looks to have some interesting ruins, but Dijon may be more laid back?>
Dijon itself would bore me after a day - some nice sights but the average large French regional town - lots of traffic and little of old world romance IMO - perhaps stay in smaller Beaune - the effective capital of the Burgundy Wine District - lots of wine houses to tour and on either side of Beaune you have cute little wine villages whose names grace many of the greatest crus of Burgundy wines - again lavish wine houses to tour and taste the products - if renting a car here or in Dijon you can take the officially posted Burgundy Wine Road that meanders thru such villages and vineyards, etc. Really a sweet alternative to the boring autoroutes.
I have spend weeks off and on in Lyon for various reasons and consider it a great place to relax in for a few days - lots to see and do right in the city - check out the troboules (sp?) - ancient passageways in the old part of town.
Lyon's historical center is uniquely bisected by two fast flowing rivers that join here - the main Grand Place is one of the biggest and nicest in France.
Thus I would say Lyon if you just want to stay in one place a few days or Dijon and or Beaune if you want a base city good for a day itself but offering some nice day excursions along the Burgundy Wine Route.
We based ourselves in a small village, Saint Saturnin les Apt, for 2 weeks this past September. Day trips were easy to do in every direction, including heading to Glanum to see the ruins [along with St. Remy of course]. We did a day trip to Avignon [which included Pont du Gard] from there, too. So many little villages within a short drive. I have a partially completed trip report with all the places we visited. Click my name to find it.
We stayed at this lovely gite, which we highly recommend.
http://www.accommodationinprovence.com/
>>Dijon itself would bore me after a day - some nice sights but the average large French regional town - lots of traffic and little of old world romance IMO - perhaps stay in smaller <<
Wow - I couldn't disagree more. Dijon is our second favorite city in France. When was the last time you were there???
We've visited it at least 5 times - and Lyon once (returning in July next year). Most/all of the "old town" is now pedestrian only. There's been lots of recent "re-doing" on Pl de la Liberation. We are architecture buffs, and Dijon has a mix of medieval, cross timbered, and Art Nouveau buildings. My wife wore out the camera taking pictures. We've visited a couple of cities on Patrimonie weekend in mid-Sept, and Dijon "put the most into it", compared to the other cities. Lots of other fantastic festivals also - in addition to their antiques & food market.
Stu Dudley
I like Dijon, also, although not my second favorite. But still, I didn't get bored there with a several of several days. It has some interesting museums and areas of the city to explore.
Now Beaune did bore me after just a couple hours. The idea of touring wine shops leaves me cold, however, I think that activity is boring. And I really like wine, also, just don't see the point of touring shops selling it.
your itinerary is a breath of fresh air after looking at all the recent itineraries which include 15 cities in 21 days. It looks as if you have left lots of time to enjoy your stops.
I think the idea of starting in Spain and moving north has merit - especially if you plan to visit southern Spain.
In the south of France, I would think of spending at least 5 days in Provence. St. Remy is a central and pleasant place to base and there is so much to see. As for either Dinon of Lyon, we prefer Dijon although if you are major foodies there is much to be said for Lyon. A couple of days in either would be plenty.
Happy planning - you have a great start.
stu - I have not been there recently but will pencil it into my upcoming trip - I biked all around it once long ago and at that time it did little for me - I am basing it on other cities of comparable size that would bore the average tourist IMO after a day or so. But in the case of Dijon perhaps I misspoke.
Yes you misspoke Pal! Please come anytime and I will show you how beautiful Dijon is.
Thank you Stu and Christina (and mamcalice), as supportive as ever
The Zim, congratulations! Check this video from the TO and you'll want to go there! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5CojSGoJ4k
You might consider taking the TGV to Dijon, picking up a car and driving to Puligny-Monrachet, a charming wine village outside of Beaune. As honeymooners, I think you would love Domaine des Anges, a beautiful chambre d'hote where we stay almost annually. Spotless, comfortable rooms, great food and wonderful ex-pat British hosts. Minimal web site, www.domainedesangespuligny.com, but you can look it up and find uniformly great reviews. The hosts will steer you to excellent dining and sightseeing in the area.
We've made the drive from there to Provence in about four hours. Add an hour if you go deeper into the Luberon. St. Remy is a good, central location to see the Roman stuff and be able to easily drive to Luberon villages.
To avoid the horrendous drop charge, dump the car in Perpignan and take a train to Barcelona. Avis has an office right across from the station and others are either inside or nearby. Give yourself plenty of time - the narrow streets leading to the station get very congested and slow.
Barcelona gets warm in June but not unbearably hot and nearly all apartments and hotels have air conditioning.