Paris and Geneva

Hi S,

>My husband and I are flying to Paris ... We will have three days together, then one day by myself while he is in meetings. We then fly to Geneva for two days.<

Is there some compelling reason to leave Paris for Geneva?

As I interpreted the post, they are going to Geneva because the husband has business there, also.

To reply to the original query, I suggest doing the things both you and your husband are interested in during your free days, and the things that interest you but not him during the days he is involved with business.

You can get better responses if you could provide some detail on the particular interests of the two of you.

I'm terribly sorry for not being more specific --- going through some very sad times and struggling to make this trip happen in spite of it all.

But...I am a journalist and should have taken the time to elaborate...especially with kind people on the receiving end ready to help.

This trip has come up very suddenly and I haven't had time to think it through. Yes...there are meetings in Geneva which is the reason for our departure from Paris. We simply want to experience the best in each of the cities --- I apologize for the non-specificity but I'm in the midst of a whirlwind and desperately trying to make this happen.

The second responder gave me pause...what are our interests? Are we too busy living our lives to develop "interests"? I anchor tv news...I like to eat...I like shopping only if I can find great deals...I am wide-eyed and wanting to experience the best that these marvelous cities have to offer. I am woefully uninformed and extremely grateful for any advice.

Thank you.

Hi s1a2r3,

I've spent a lot of time in Montreux on Lake Geneva, about 1h20 from Geneva. Because I really hate big cities, I haven't spent a lot of time in Geneva itself, so I'm not sure how much help I can be.

But here is my list of activities anyway -- they assume a base of Montreux, but you can reach all of these easily by train from Geneva. By the way, you can check rail schedules at www.rail.ch.

Spend a morning walking along the 11km flowered lakeside promenade from Clarens to Villeneuve, passing the Chateau Chillon between Territet and Villeneuve; there are plenty of cafes to stop and have a coffee & snack along the way to replenish your strength. There are also plenty of benches to sit and read, watch other walkers, or simply stare at the majesty of the lake and the mountains in the distance.

If you make it all the way to Villeneueve, top off your long walk with a wonderful pizza & beer lunch at a lakeside café in Villeneuve, then take the ferry back to Montreux (I think the ferry stops in late Sep/Oct).

Spend a morning walking up to Montreux's old city and the old church for fantastic panoramic views from the church’s terrace. Have lunch at the Hotel/Restaurant du Pont at 12 rue du Pont (I had a ravioli in cream sauce with shaved truffles that was out of this world!). Montreux’s website is at www.montreux.ch

Spend the morning in Vevey hunting down the antiques shops in the old town. Then have lunch at the Hostellerie de Geneve on the Pl. Marche. Vevey’s website is at www.vevey.ch

Be sure to walk from Vevey to the town of La-Tour-de-Peilz, just a few blocks. Walk along the lake past stately trees and park benches until you come to an old fort, a small park, and the port. You'll see lots of folks out playing in good weather.

Take the train (the “wine train”) from Vevey to Chexbres, then spend a morning walking the vineyards down to the lake, hitting Rivaz & St. Saphorin. For lunch, find the Auberge du Rivaz (in Rivaz . . . ) with a terrace lake view or see if any of the cellars are having a cheese/wine tasting. Website: www.lavaux.ch/sentier2.htm

The lakeside village of Cully, just east of Lausanne, is a picturesque stop and has two recommended restaurants, the Auberge du Raisin and the Au Major Davel.

The lakeside village of Lutry, just two miles east of Lausanne, has a well-posted tour of medieval buildings as well as some good wine caves for tasting. Website: www. lutry.ch

Spend a day in the mountains, taking the train to the resort of Gstaad. On the way back, stop at Chateau d'Oex for lunch.

Take the funicular from Territet up to Glion and have lunch at the Hotel Victoria, enjoying its panoramic views of the lake.

Spend an afternoon in the medieval village of Gruyeres, making sure to sample the berries in creme-double. Website: www.gruyeres.ch

Spend an afternoon in Nyon at the Roman museum and the Caesar's columns nearby. The Fodors guide recommends a meal at the Auberge du Chateau just steps from the Roman museum. It was closed when I was there, but it looked charming. Website: www.nyon.ch

Go to the small, charming village of Celigny. Not much to see here but a picturesque place (it was actor Richard Burton’s home during the last years of his life). Have lunch at the Auberge du Soleil -- great prix fixe feast!

Spend the morning in the town of Morges, just west of Lausanne. Morges has a cobbled main street that is lined with shops and patisseries; it has a flowered lakeside promenade that signs say runs all the way to Lausanne; and it has a large, green park next to the lake that is filled with stately trees. Here's the Morges tourism website: www.morges.ch/view.asp?DomId=51

The website for the tourist office of the region is: www.lake-geneva-region.ch

My personal travel journal (w/photos) of Montreux: www.igougo.com/planning/journal.asp?JournalID=7825

I hope someone will come along to give you some ideas about Geneva itslef!

My condolences on your very sad time. I hope you enjoy your trip!

s

Hi s,

>...a nice hotel situated in the Left Bank.<

We always stay at the Bonaparte, a 2* in the 6th. 125-165E dbl w/ bkfst.
Tel 33 1 43 26 97 37
FAX 33 1 46 33 57 67

These are 3*
http://www.123france.com/123/en/hotel.php?id_hot=962

http://www.paris-france-hotels-reservation.com/jardins-luxembourg/english.htm

Also see Paris Superthread
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34519236

I hope it all works out.

Hi s1a2r3 (weird handle )

Paris

Don't know your hotel budget, but since your husband's employer will be picking up at least part of the tab in Paris, I would recommend something better than a 2*.

One option would be the Sainte-Beuve (not the standard rooms though), though it's probably already booked up at such short notice. Other more upscale options would be (roughly from cheapest to most expensive) the Hotel Madison, de l'Abbaye, Bel-Ami, Luxembourg Parc, Lutetia, Victoria Palace and Montalembert.

I've only stayed at the Sainte-Beuve but know the location of the other hotels well and have seen overwhelmingly positive comments on them in this and other forums.

www.paris-hotel-charme.com (website for the Sainte-Beuve)

http://www.hotel-madison.com/

http://www.hotel-abbaye.com/

http://www.luxembourg-paris-hotel.com/

www.hotel-bel-ami.com/

http://www.lutetia-paris.com/anglais/index_f.html

www.victoriapalace.com/

www.montalembert.com/

Geneva

Don't have any personal experience with hotels as my mom lives there, but location-wise the boutique-style La Cigogne is unbeatable.

Right next door but less upscale (very small rooms apparently) is the Hotel Longemalle. Another safe choice with small rooms is the Hotel du Midi.

www.cigogne.ch

www.longemalle.ch

http://www.hotel-du-midi.ch/indexEn.asp

Hope this helps,
Andre

Oh one more point - you will probably find it more enjoyable to take the TGV train from Paris to Geneva, especially in 1st class, rather than flying.

You can book your tickets on www.sncf.com, choosing FRANCE as your location. Prepay and either print your tickets out at home (if you snag a deeply discounted Prem's fare) or pick them up at any train station or "Boutique SNCF" in Paris.

Hope this helps,
Andre

Oh my goodness. I am overwhelmed with your kindness and generosity of time. I will read these more thoroughly later today and may have follow-up questions.

Thank you again --I wish you a wonderful day.

S.

As a solo female with a few days to spend in Geneva, I would take the train immediately out to Lausanne, Vevey, and/or Montreux. These towns are only an hour away and MUCH more easy to enjoy IMO than Geneva (which is a huge, world-class, international city). Quite honestly I'd even choose a hotel in Vevey or Montreux and train IN to Geneva instead of staying there. The trains run all the time, many people commute this route daily. It's no big deal to get around.

Do a quick 'search' using Montreux and Vevey here on Fodors... there are several people who have been discussing this fabulous part of Switzerland in great detail lately.

Just back to making travel plans ---goodness it's getting late!!

Hotel de Buci is about 40 euro more per night with no breakfast (included at Agora).

Is it worth it? I'm having trouble placing the Agora. Not enough hours in the day!

Thanks!!!
Susan

Sorry, I didn't explain this properly. Have a booking at the Agora St. Germain in Paris ---but could book at the Hotel de Buci. It looks charming, but it more expensive.

Thanks,
Susan

Susan, put the Agora street address into www.mappy.com, and then it will "place" it for you.

O.K. Here's the plan...

four nights in Paris at Hotel de Buci ---first two nights on us... 200 euro for standard room.

Upgrade the next two night to 240 euro for a superior room (i.e. a little bigger)

TGV to Geneva ---ANDRE!!! Thank you for your suggestion --we tried to book on-line - got totally confused between 1st class and something called first value --- we're drained and I've decided to put this booking in the hands of an agent. Any advice?

I'm booked into hotel du midi in Geneva -- but wondering if there is a better choice ---I"m thinking of surprising my husband with an additional night in Montreux --thanks to your most generous suggestions --- I'm very limited in search time, but I gather the Hotel Eden au Lac (sp?) would be a great choice. My husband deserves a wonderful additional day to this trip and I think Montreux would be a good choice.

Actually, it would work like this --- his meetings in Geneva end at about 3pm on Friday, April 1st.

We could take the train to Montreux that evening ---dine (where?) stay at, perhaps Eden? ---the next day, do whatever(?) from there --stay a second night in Montreux and then depart for Geneva Sunday morning. Actually, we would likely be flying from Geneva at 11:00 am. Is that too early to be leaving from Montreux?? I'm sorry to be asking all of this....some of you will be shaking your heads and saying "we 've already told her this..."

Tomorrow is a new day. I will breathe. And this will all happen...mostly because of you!

Susan

Hi s1a2r3,

For your Lake Geneva portion --

Yup, the Eden au Lac is a great choice -- perfect location and perfect views over the promenade (people watching from your balcony) and over the lake. It recently changed its name to the Eden Palace au Lac -- website at www.edenmontreux.ch.

While I can't tell you what is "too early" for you on your morning of departure, I can tell you that you can leave Montreux at 5.53 and arrive at the Geneva airport at 7.15 (0 changes) or leave at 6.19 to arrive at 7.33 (0 changes) or leave at 6.55 to arrive at 8.12 (0 changes). You can check rail schedules at www.rail.ch (use "Geneva airport" as your destination).

Have a blast!

s

Concerning hotel in Paris, I would suggest you a hotel I discovered for not a long time and that is called Hotel Suede Saint Germain, located in a little and calm street, not far away from Saint Germain des Pres, in the 7th, with a beautiful decoration. It is a 3 star hotel..I don't know your budget?
Have a look att he website:
http://www.suede-saint-germain.com
Enjoy your trip!

My dh and I absolutely loved Geneva and didn't find the city "too big" as others described. We too were brought the opportunity at the last minute (and in fact never had a strong desire to go to Switzerland before this opportunity arose) so had to make last minute plans. As such, I chose the Best Western which is directly across the street from the Gare (train station). I know, a best western, but this place definitely had the european feeling and was a wonderful place with a wonder european meal included.

My dh and I took the train from Paris and agree that the TGV is the way to go - you get to go through the Alps which are beautiful and it's actually much easier than a plane. It only took 2 and a 1/2, three hours and it was wonderful.

For Geneva itself, Fodors and Frommers both have a wonderful walking tour. We did all of the walking tours for the city (we just combined them) and easily did it in one day - it took about 6-7 hours, but that was with stopping at the museums, stopping at several cafes for wine, stopping for lunch etc. It was very leisurely and my dh and I, who are not the most active people in the world, found it very doable. The UN and Red Cross could be another whole day in itself.

We loved Geneva, I found it to be very pretty, story book like, and would love to go back again.

Have fun!

You asked for suggestions for things to do in Paris. The Fodors Paris page has "Best in 3 days" suggestions. To those suggestions, I would add Ste. Chapelle, to my mind the most spectacular sight in Paris. Go on a sunny day if you can. Also, sit in the sun with a picnic lunch in Luxembourg Gardens or the Tuilleries (or both). About the best thing to do in Paris is just soak up the atmosphere - take a look at the many trip reports by visitors to Paris on this board to put yourself in the mood. And enjoy Paris - it is fabulous!

Dear s1a2r3,
This may come a bit late but here are my suggestions for Geneve.
Geneve is a small city and it's easy to see the old city by foot. Note that it can be quite cold and windy in March. If you want to be indoors, the Red Cross museum, though out of the center of town a bit, is interesting. Busses are easy to take - go to the TDG kiosk at Rive to get a map. Buy tickets from the machines at bus stops. Go to the flea market on Wed. and Sat. mornings at Plainpalais. If you don't want to leave Geneve but want to see Swiss cuteness, Veyrier is a very cute tiny town easily accessed by bus and is close to the Saleve telepherique (which might be closed still in March). The train ride to Montreux is super beautiful. Since Geneve is 40% foreign, you'll have no communication problems.
Have fun-

s1a2r3,

If you give me your dates I'll do a dry run on the SNCF site and get back to you.

The train ride actually takes just over 3.5 hours and doesn't cross the Alps (there is some pleasant scenery though), but it's much less of a hassle and more comfortable than flying IMO.

Andre

There are two things that I have learned through this experience.

One --the generosity of strangers is overwhelming and heartwarming.

Two --- Always check the best rate on the internet for a hotel ---and then call directly. Almost without exception, that rate will be met or exceeded. And nothing can match personal contact. Two voices ---two Human Beings connecting --- I can't tell you how kind people have been, and the "extra's" that have been included simply because we've connected. Honestly -- the financial gain is great --but the human contact before your arrival is something else!!

O.K.--- My boys would say "Mom -- get to the point!!"

We are booked four nights at Hotel de Buci. I am thrilled. We were in Paris only once, on our 25th wedding anniversary. This year we will celebrate our 30th. (I was a child bride-) We stayed at Hotel de Fleurie and tried to stay in Paris an extra night ---found hotel de Buci and fell in love ---couldn't change our flights!!

**sidenote -- shared mussels and wine with the wife of Monty Python's Terry Jones!! She is a scientist and a delight! Totally impressed with my Canadian experience as a television newscaster ---only as we said goodbye did she reveal her husband's fame!!!

I will review all of your messages and plan our time in Paris. We will arrive at 8:30 am (weary from Canada) and have Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday and part of Wednesday in Paris. I will be on my own Wed. while my husband is in meetings.

On Wed. we take the TGV to Geneva. Now..some of you have said that that trip is amazing..my husband will not be free until the 7:10 train, but that will be in the dark. He is suggesting ( I am married to a gem!!) that I travel earlier, first class - 2:38pm to Geneva ---check in at the hotel --and he would arrive just after 11pm.

I will book that tomorrow --- should I grab a bite or eat on the train? We are booking on first class.

We are booked for 2 nights at Hotel du Midi. On Thursday March 31st, I will be on my own in Geneva. The next day, Friday, My husband's meetings end at approx 3pm.

My plan, based on all of your wisdom, is for us to catch a train to Montreux. I have 2 nights booked at Hotel Eden au Lac -- a double room including breakfast for 210 S.F. but likely not a view of the lake. That's ok. Breakfast is included!

So we'll arrive in Montreux Friday night ---have dinner somewhere? Spend the next day doing whatever I glean from your previous kind messages --- sleep in our hotel on Saturday night ---and catch a train at 7:19 to the Geneva airport, where we will begin our journey home via Frankfurt, London and finally to our home in Canada's capital city, Ottawa.

When I scan your messages...I'm almost tempted to stay one extra night --- a third night in Montreux. It's hard because I'm reading your notes and trying to envisage an area that I've never visited.

Regardless, I thank you. I never imagined myself on a "chat-line" --but this is something quite different. Almost without exception, when I read one of your postings, I think...now there's a nice person. I know that if I happened to be sitting beside one of you on a plane, or a train or in a cafe... I would like you.

I am an atrocious speller due to my journalistic shorthand and I apologize!

Thankfully,
Susan

Susan, I hope you love Montreux as I do.

There's a great little Italian restaurant right at the base of the cobblestones that go up into the Old Town (name escapes me... but the bar next door is called Il Barretto).

You could take the bus (or train) to Vevey for the Saturday morning farmers market if you're up early.

And remember on your way to the airport, don't get off at Geneva(!) that is only downtown, the airport stop is the last one "termini".

Best regards, Susan

s1a2r3,
The TGV between Paris and Geneva doesn't have deluxe views, so a night trip is fine - it's the run from Geneve - montreux that is really beautiful!

Forgive me for being a ding-bat!!

Andre...what is IMO?

radiofanatic --who or what is a dh??

Haven't booked the tgv yet -- haven't a foggy clue what those initals stand for but I do know it's the high speed train twixt paris and Geneva.

Really? No great loss to travel at night? I was looking forward to a fabulous view, but I expect it will be best to travel earlier regardless ---check in and have all settled by the time my husband arrives.

And who knows...I might meet one of you on the train!!

Susan

I've learned on this forum :
IMO = in my opinion - IMHO = in my humble opinion
dh = darling husband

Swissle is right. The landscape on Paris - Geneva route is not bad, especially Rhone valley regions are bit nicer but the great view is Geneva-Montreux. In Montreux, besides visiting Chillon Castle, consider taking a mountain train to Rochers-de-Naye (2000 meters)on a sunny day. I had magnificent view from there twice last year all over the Alpes. The train leaves from the main railway station.

Also, I agree with Swissle about Geneva being a small city (they call it the smallest international city in the world.). Suze called it "a huge .. city" but I find it a bit misleading to some (sorry suze ). It's just a city with a population of about 200'000. Berne, the Swiss capital is even smaller.

Anyway, I hope you will enjoy the whole lake Geneva region.

Susan,
One more thing for your day alone in Geneve. Take a mouette (little boats that cross Lac Leman) ride (the price is included in a regular transportation ticket) from Geneve-Plage to Perle du Lac. (if it is sunny and sort of warm), The Perle du Lac restaurant is good and the surrounding park(s) are lovely, You can't leave the area without a good fondue - a good place is Chateau d'If in Vesenaz, a ten minute bus ride (E or G) from the Rive. There is also a good, nontouristy fondue place near but not on rue des Eaux-Vives, called Au Bon Vin I think.

Au Bon Vin is correct as far as I remember. A place run by a somewhat blunt madame but well known by the locals for serving a great fondue.

On my previous post, after "sorry suze..", I thought I had put a smiley (winking one - but that does not show right even though it does on the preview.

Never mind, I see the smiley now.

kappa, i understand statistically it is not so darn gigantic. i guess my comparison was if i was solo with a day to tour on foot, i would pick one of the smaller towns (those are easily do-able) over attempting to see all of Geneva myself.

i thought of another thing to mention in reading about going out on the lake. find a restaurant that serve fille de perche (lake fish). yum.

s1a2r3,

IMO was already explained to you, TGV stand for Train à Grande Vitesse (translation: high speed train).

If I understand correctly, you will be travelling from Paris to Geneva on March 30th on the 19h10 train. The best fare currently available on that train in 1st class is the non-flexible "Atout Première" for EUR 70 per person, so EUR 140 total for 2. In 2nd class, the lowest fare available on that train would only cost 1 EUR less per person, however it is the fully flexible/refundable normal fare.

Once again: book on sncf.com, select ticket pickup in France and choose the option to PREPAY and collect your tickets at the station. They will be available for pickup from the time you book until departure time at any SNCF station in France or any of the numerous "Boutiques SNCF" sprinkled around town, all you need is ID and the card you used to pay for them.

There are snacks available on the train in the bar car (no full meal service available on the route unfortunately), so have a nice lunch

Hope this helps,
Andre

"Is there some compelling reason to leave Paris for Geneva?"

So the city with the highest quality of life in the whole world is not good enough for ira !

<Yes...there are meetings in Geneva which is the reason for our departure from Paris.>

I know that Suze. I had quoted ira for saying that! and I provided her with my compelling reason for visiting Geneva!

Suze ! I just figured it out! you thought I ment that Paris is the city with the highest quality of life !
Not according to the latest international Mercer report. Geneva and Zurich tied for the first spot!

I didn't know that little tidbit about Geneva, but am not surprised!

http://www.mercerhr.com/summary.jhtml/dynamic/idContent/1173105;jsessionid=VQKD0VVLZZZPMCTGOUFCIIQKMZ0QUI2C

It is unbelievable how most American tourists visiting Switzeland leave Zurich or Genevea as soon as they land in them to go hiking in mountains, not knowing that they are missing out on these cities, where the whole world dreams of living!

Hello all!

I'm in the countdown and can't believe all of the help you've sent. I didn't even know about the most recent messages --- it's either my computer or the web-site that is not showing me when some of you have added your thoughts.

I will peruse all in the a.m.

Meantime, thank you all ---oh, Andre? I thought if I splurged for first class on the TGV I might get a meal---or the option to buy a lovely one? I'm still thinking of booking a tgv mid-afternoon to see some of the view, even though it's clearly not the most spectacular.

Goodnight.

There is unfortunately no full "at your seat" meal service on the Paris-Geneva route. This is offered on other routes in 1st class only, but costs extra. In any event, it's hardly a gourmet experience... As mentioned, you can always purchase snacks (salads, croque-monsieur etc.) in the bar car.

Since at this point in time 1st class is the same price as 2nd for the train you want to take, it's a no brainer - but book those "Atout Premiere" fares fast, they will probably sell out soon. I would spend the extra time in Paris and travel together to Geneva, but it's your call.

Hope this helps,
Andre

O.K. --I'm set to go!!!

Took your advice Andre and Booked the train tickets together. I'm sure I'll be grateful for a few extra hours in Paris!

Only problem with the booking is that at this point we are in separate cars. I booked my self the non-refundable and cheaper First Value, and my husband the full fare because there is always the chance his meeting will be delayed. I ended up having his travel agent book these tickets because RailEurope couldn't get them mailed to me in time, and the SCNF site was in French, which I unfortunately do not understand! I'm hoping we might be able to change the seating at the station.

Thank you all so very much ---I can't imagine having this planned this trip without your help. We will get the very most out of Paris, Geneva and enjoy the added delights of Montreux and area!

Merci and Au Revoir!

We had a wonderful time --everything went very smoothly thanks to such great advice from so many of you.

-We loved Hotel du Buci - can't imagine a better street on which to be situated in Paris.

- 2 favourite restaurants: Restaurant Des Beaux Arts and Fish --both very close to Rue de Buci.

- came THIS close to having my bag stolen while eating at L'Atlas on Rue de Buci --we were eating outside and I'd taken the bag off and set it right beside my leg on a little window ledge. I glanced down and a man's hand was on the bag --fingers ready to grab the handle ---I reached down and pulled it from his grasp and he stood up and quickly disappeared into the crowds on the sidewalk. He had obviously seen the bag, and sat down right behind me so that he could take it. I learned my lesson well!

- First thing we did in Paris was take the boat tour along the Seine --wonderful!

- Hated to leave Paris and was grateful for advice to delay my departure until end of day and travel with my husband. I would have regretted giving up one minute in that marvelous city.

- Very satisfied with Hotel du Midi in Geneva ---fabulous meal at Relais de L'Entrecote.

- And the BEST advice of all, was to take a side-trip to Montreux. Thoroughly enjoyed the train ride and fell in love with the entire area. Hotel Eden au Lac was lovely ---excellent breakfast and spacious room --not on the lake side because it was out of our price range, but on one end of the hotel which gave us a view of the mountains. Only downside was noisy casino patrons in the wee hours!

-excellent restaurant in Montreux -La Locanda.

-One full day in Montreux and the weather was absolutely gorgeous. Morning walk along the beautiful promenade to Chillon Castle which we loved. Afternoon train ride up Rocher de Naye, which we would recommend to anyone, especially on a clear day.

And so...I thank you very much. This is a marvelous resource for travellers and I certainly appreciate the generosity of those who take the time to help!

Hurray!! Thanks so much for taking the time to post a follow-up. As a member of the Montreux fan club, I get an extra personal kick out of people who enjoy the region, especially knowing "we" helped encourage you to include it on your trip.

s1a2r3,

Terrific report! Thanks SO much for sharing.

If you have photos and put them on the web, we'd love to see them -- aren't we greedy!!

Very glad you enjoyed discovering Montreux & the Eden au Lac!

s

Thanks Suze...

We can't wait to go back and next time we'll definitely stay longer and follow-up on the many suggested activities in the region ---it's gorgeous!!

swandav--I posted my reply to suze before you posted your kind words, and yet it appears that I have ignored you! Your suggestions were marvelous --I have printed them and tucked them away in my file for a most-anticipated return visit to Montreux area.

Thanks for the compliments about my trip report --frankly it looks pretty lame to me in comparison to most I've read here, but if I'd waited until I had time to produce a literary masterpiece, none of you would know how grateful I am.

I should be naming others who took the time to help ---swissie? and of course, Andre. What a kind contributor --even offered to do a "dummy" train reservation for me --- I know that some people are intimidated to post, and sometimes you have to be a little more thick-skinned than you normally are ---butit's worth it ---people like you give people like me the confidence and motivation to "make it happen".

Thank-you.