Paris and England, 14 days on the ground

Old Jul 21st, 2017, 06:01 AM
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Paris and England, 14 days on the ground

My hubby and I are leaving for Paris on October 23rd (2017) for 13 nights, We have planned thus far to stay in Paris for 5 nights then we would like to take the train to Bordeaux (or any wine region that is interesting) for 2 nights, then train to London for 5 nights. Our final night would be back in Paris for the plane home the following day.
We are celebrating my 50th on the 28th and our anniversary on the 30th. Obviously we would like to eat at the Eiffel Tower for one of those nights.
We are very fit and no walk is too long. We love wine, art and scenery/architecture.
I know we are trying to fit a lot in, but we think 3 locations will suffice for our first trip to Europe. Other countries will certainly follow.
ANY tips would be appreciated.
Weather??
Best wine regions??
How to pack??
Thanks all
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Old Jul 21st, 2017, 06:58 AM
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>

Variable and likely chilly. Think something between the US Eastern Seaboard and Chicago. You'll also be hurtling from the Equinox to the Winter Solstice so each day will be shorter than the previous and some sites may be on off-season hours (they likely will be in November).

>

Barossa Valley, Chianti or Sonoma - oh wait. In France, look up what the oenophiles like on something like Robert Parker's site or Wine Spectator. Bordeaux is one of many, and French wine regions should be fish+barrel+shotgun.

>

By folding clothes and putting in convenient carrying vessels?

If you mean WHAT to pack, there are two maxims - don't overdo it and be prepared. Fact is no one cares wth you wear (except perhaps if you decide to blow a couple of car payments at Jules Verne or another resto that has a dress code - which means you'll be packing extra specifically for one night). But given the time of year and propensity toward wet and chilly weather, you need waterproof stuff primarily for a jacket and shoes. And you need to be able to layer up or down based on the weather. Check out Columbia Sportswear, REI, Zappos, and Timberland.

And don't fear an apartment rental (perhaps best for London based on your tentative itinerary) - you can find many with laundry facilities in the flat, which means take less stuff.
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Old Jul 21st, 2017, 07:11 AM
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>

Have you purchased your airfare? If not, you might want to do an open-jaw. Fly into Paris and fly home from London. No need to backtrack to Paris.
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Old Jul 21st, 2017, 07:23 AM
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That sounds like an awful lot of in and out of Paris. I assume your plane tickets are already purchased. If so, I suggest a plan below. If not, do open jaw with London and Paris.

Tickets bought in and out of Paris:
There is a fast train from CDG airport to London St Pancras. It takes about 3+ hours.

I would land at CDG and go immediately on to London, spend my 5 days there.

Then I might go to my French wine region directly from London either by train or a cheap flight. Flying would depend on several factors, including where you choose for your wine region. People here are very helpful on these transportation issues.

Then I would finish up in Paris. You would be there for your flight, with no going back and forth. You can easily get back to Paris by train.

Thoughts on wine regions: I don't drink so can't advise or suggest based on wines, but I can on scenery and tourist interests. Bordeaux seemed less interesting than Burgundy to me. Burgundy is full of lovely places, chateaux and Beaune is a terrific small town. My interests lie in history, art, architecture and churches.


There are others here who know a lot more about wine regions than I. I hope they pitch in.
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Old Jul 21st, 2017, 08:02 AM
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Congratulations on the birthday and anniversary!

There are very few wine areas in France that aren't interesting, but you're headed to the country after the vendange so the fields everywhere will be less than inspiring. And even though you can get from Paris to Bordeaux in 3 hours or less now, I wouldn't bother for 2 nights. Go to Beaune or Dijon or maybe Strasbourg, or skip the wine part on this trip. You can always go up to Montmartre while you're in Paris and take a gander at the vineyard there.

And there is no need to backtrack to Paris. Buy open-jaw tickets into Paris and out of London or vice versa.

Eating at Jules Verne doesn't fall into the obvious category for me, but since it does for you, yes, you'll need to pack for it. Otherwise, there's nothing more to packing than checking the weather before you go and taking as little as you can get away with. If you're going to be taking trains, you'll be responsible for hauling whatever luggage you have and storing it properly once on the trains. For any long-haul trains, buy your tickets 90 or so days in advance online to get the best prices.
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Old Jul 21st, 2017, 08:03 AM
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If you can't do open jaw and are stuck in/out of Paris, then I would 100% rearrange things. Arrive at CDG and immediately fly on to London (or take the RER in to Paris and the Eurostar to London - but being already at the airport flying would be less complicated). Visit London - then train to France and on to Bordeaux, finish up in Paris to fly home.



(hopefully you haven't already purchased your flights)
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Old Jul 22nd, 2017, 11:55 AM
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If you eat inside the Eiffel Tower, you won't see anything but huge girders. If you can afford Jules Verne, you get a pass to go up and see the sights.

For my money, the view from the Eiffel Tower at Les Ombres is awfully nice - and the food is very good.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2017, 12:03 PM
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About trains - book any long-distance train from/to Paris at www.voyages-sncf.com; Paris-London at www.eurostar.com-book as early as possible for possible deep discounts off full-fare.

If doing CDG to London go into Paris Gare du Nord and hop on Eurostar. Paris-Bordeaux leaves from Gare Montparnasse.

For loads on trains and bookings check www.seat61.com -guru now on discounted tickets; www.rickstves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

Obviously consider flying Bordeaux to London.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2017, 02:03 PM
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I agree that if you can't do open jaw, go straight to London from CDG, then fly [probably from LGW] to Bordeaux or Lyon. Then get the train back to Paris to finish your trip.

Otherwise fly into London, then fly to Bordeaux or Lyon, and train to Paris. or vice versa.
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Old Jul 22nd, 2017, 09:41 PM
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It's a good idea to keep an eye on a live version of Paris weather, because it changes all the time. Light layers are a very good idea.
Pack as lightly as you can, because you will have to haul your luggage through train stations and up the train steps, and figure out where you'll have to store it.
Wear your heaviest clothes, pack the rest.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2017, 04:12 AM
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Light layers are a very good idea.>

Yes indedy - very fickle weather in fall -sun pops out temps go up - clouds come in and go down. Layering is key- won't be really cold and could be quite warm. Average temps for month mean little.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2017, 05:23 AM
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Wine, the harvest will be in except for the very sweet wine in small parcels of land. So it really depends more on easy access to wine tasting, and food that you like to go with it.

The easy trip is take a train to Champagne and go either to Epernay (my favorite) or the more generally interesting Rheims. Both have easy access to grand house champagne wine tours, they cost a bit and you need to choose an English speaking tour (there are lots) and either tourist info can advise or you surf.

If Champers is not for you the next easiest is probably Alsace (mainly whites) catch a train to Colmar and either base here or bus/taxi to Eguisheim (you just wander around the village tasting and buying or you can go up market with a paid for tour. Colmar is a larger town and some people prefer it. Tourist Info is well geared up to empty your pocket

A few levels up is Burgundy, Loire or Bordeaux, each needs more private transport and more information as the shear concentration and size of the area gets in the way of having a great visit (if you know your stuff it is not a problem, if you don't you have to work at it). If I had to choose I might look to hire bikes on the Loire and stay somewhere like Saumur and ride out to other areas or use the trains (take bikes on the local ones) and taste in the central village tasting rooms.

Amazingly French tourist info online is exceptional and will offer you anything from advice to whole week packages with a high proportion of anglophonic assistance.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2017, 05:30 AM
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Linking wine to architecture, Champagne, has a range of late 19th century buildings plus a fantastic cathedral in Rheims and part of the Roman forum underground. Epernay has the most beautiful Avenue in the world (or so thought Winston Churchill)

Alsace has a fair few 1100 and 1300 churches and a lot of half timbered buildings many so renovated as to be modern plus castles from about 1200 to WW1.

Loire, has chateau, "so many chateau" DT, a wide river, a very large abbey from 1200s and the odd atomic power station

Burgundy, well the roofs are to die for

Bordeaux, the city itself has some nice middle class 19th cent buildings in the vernacular, the top wineries (normally out in the sticks) have world class architects and also in the sticks are "Bastides" (the medievel equivalents of free-ports inside military compounds)
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Old Jul 23rd, 2017, 09:05 AM
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Forget Bordeaux. Do burgundy or Alsace or champagne region. I'd do London, then paris, then wine area. You can take the train direct from Strasbourg or Reims champagne ardennes to cdg.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2017, 09:44 AM
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I'd choose Champagne (my fav), Loire and make a visit to Chenonceau while there, or Alsace for wine region.

You might enjoy dinner or drinks at Ciel de Paris at Tour Montparnasse for a view of the city and the ET.

Definitely plan on layers. I always carry a cashmere wrap and scarf for changing weather and a travel umbrella. For outdoor days, if you think you might get cold, carry those hand warmers you get a camping stores. They can be a lifesaver!
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Old Jul 23rd, 2017, 01:28 PM
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Yes Reims has a lot more than Champagne -like bilbo said -and one site I rather liked was the WW2 Rendition Room in a old former Girls School right behind the main train station (if I recall correctly)- this is where the Allies plotted the final assault on Berlin to end the war -war maps still grace the walls and name tags the tables. And where then Germans officially surrendered on May 7, 1945:

http://www.surfinginmap.club/toplace/772463832
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Old Jul 23rd, 2017, 03:02 PM
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Personally I would not fly to Paris and go to London immediately by plane or train just to avoid "backtracking." If you've got air tickets you can't change, I suggest sticking to your original plan.

Given that you are celebrating, instead of going to a city like Bordeaux for 2 night, I would look to go to a romantic countryside relais, maybe a wine producer?. Maybe Champagne would be fun? I don't know. But I can't help but think something like that exists, with good food and wine, within a reasonable distance of Paris that makes it fun for 2 nights or even just 1 night if it's not too far away.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2017, 03:09 PM
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Here, something like this:

http://thetastysidetolife.blogspot.i...agne-area.html

I could see getting off the plane in Paris and heading straight for a chateau like some of these in Champagne for 2 nights, and then maybe going to London -- but I'd despise getting off a transatlantic flight in Paris and immediately undertaking additional travel to London. Just wouldn't be worth it to me. The hours "backtracking" I'd allegedly save would be lost to feeling lousy, too tired, needing to recover and having a lousy, harried opening to my trip. I'd rather pop a cork somewhere in France when I landed.
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Old Jul 23rd, 2017, 11:38 PM
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There are plenty of people who don't feel lousy, harried, or too tired to keep traveling after an overnight flight. After all, Day 1 is usually wasted anyway. I've been doing it all my traveling life. By the same token, there are plenty of people for whom a night in a fancy château (that also required a train trip) when jet-lagged would be a waste of effort and money when the same experience could be had once one is refreshed and on the local schedule. Depends on your ability to deal with jetlag and how you prefer to spend those hours when you're maybe not feeling your most energetic.
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Old Jul 24th, 2017, 01:19 AM
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Anybody too jet lagged to be able to enjoy relaxing at a chateau and drink champagne for a night (it's not a very demanding drink) probably should not be trying to make it it to London instead.

My "Day Ones" after a transatlantic aren't wasted. I get some rest when I land and then hit the town. Sorry this only works for Italy, but now that Emirates offers free taxi services for business passengers anywhere within 100kms of the airport, I take their limos to small towns, lakes or castles in northern Italy, have a nap, then a lovely passeggiata with cocktails, a great dinner and a nice sleep. Next morning I see more of the town, have lunch, head onward to the major attractions elsewhere by train.

I particularly would not want to begin a celebratory trip to France and England with the double whammy of dealing with both Paris and London airports. And if RT tickets are already bought to Paris, then the traveller will need to factor in a substantial layover to be sure not to miss the newly arranged flight to London. Plus go through immigration twice on the same day in 2 countries with -- ahem-- rather nasty immigration control experiences.

A 30 minute train ride to Reims + taxi to Champagne is hardly the same as the logistics of Eurostar for another 4 or 5 hours of traveling. But I just threw that out there because the traveler would like 2 nights in a wine zone, and I thought it might work at the top of the trip rather than the middle.

But if the travelers think putting a wine visit at the top of the trip would be compromised by jet lag, I would still skip the advice to keep traveling the first day. Sounds more fun to me to get off the plane and be in Paris. As for "backtracking", there are ways to make 2 Eurostar train trips fun, and that's what I would do.
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