I'm sorry but I don't see why you should expect anybody on this forum to aid you in breaking the law any further than you already have done.

Why do so many Americans assume that it is OK for them to overstay the allotted time in the Schengen zone? Would you provide advice to a European who overstayed their 90 days in the US?

Why not investigate legalising your situation yourself.
Don't expect others to do your dirty work for you.

Sorry if this seems rude but I get really peed off with all these how do we get round the Schengen rules questions.

Get a visa if you want to stay longer than 90 days, and stop bugging this forum questions on ways to get around it.

"Why do so many Americans assume that it is OK for them to overstay the allotted time in the Schengen zone? Would you provide advice to a European who overstayed their 90 days in the US?"

hetismij, while I agree with you that we shouldn't be aiding and abetting an illegal activity, Americans are NOT alone in this. Over the years, I've seen MANY similar posts from Europeans (yes, Brits and Dutch included) who've overstayed their visa and want advice on how to remain in the U.S.

It is NOT accurate to assume Americans are the only ones doing this.

Congrats you are now an illegal immigrant

subject to permanent deportation fines of hundreds of euros

even jail time in some aggressive countries like Germany.

Some find that training cheap regional trains to Trieste

taking a bus to Croatia with locals for 10 euros

staying under the radar decreases chances of getting caught.

work your way down to Turkey fly back from IST.

Personally I would get honest and consult with an immigration

attorney and/or your Embassy for best advice.

I have no idea why people do this - especially knowingly! It is a serious offence to break immigration laws and if caught the consequences can be significant - monetarily and through blocking your entry back into the Schengen zone. But like you said, you know this - so you must be willing to deal with the consequences.

You'll be happy to know that countries are very much clamping down on this due to the recession. I certainly will not aid you in finding your way out of this. Does the US take this lightly with people who choose to do this from their neighbours and other visiting countries?

No lecture from me (although I agree wholeheartedly with the previous posters), but here is my experience.

I am a Canadian citizen, but a permanent resident in Italy (I have lived here for 9 years and I am LEGAL). I travel back home to visit family/friends every year. EVERY SINGLE TIME I leave the Schengen zone on a flight to North America, no matter which airport I depart from – these last 5 years it’s been mainly Frankfurt or Amsterdam – the passport control officer always flips through my passport looking for my entry stamp, looks at me with eyes that will burn a hole in your head and starts grilling me as to why I’ve been in the zone so long. As soon as I pull out my Italian ID and my immigration permit the tone changes, I get a smile and a “have a nice visit home” and I’m waved through (I have since learned to present these with my passport to save myself a panic attack). So I don’t know what would happen if I didn’t have documents to present. I certainly have no interest in finding out.

FoFoBT - you are right. Sorry, I shouldn't make sweeping statements like that, but this sort of post just really annoys me.

Get a lawyer and deal with it.

Seriously? Maybe reconsider your ill-conceived plan and leave before your first six month period ends.

"Seriously? Maybe reconsider your ill-conceived plan and leave before your first six month period ends."

Looks like it already has.

"Maybe reconsider your ill-conceived plan and leave before your first six month period ends."

What six months -- they only get 90 days so they have already overstayed by more than 3 months.

You should just cut your losses now and pray to god you aren't banned from returning. You sound ridiculous asking how to overstay by more than nine months and >>will we be able to re-enter the Schengen Zone without worry<<

I know one Schengen country where the OP shouldn't enter to depart for home from: Switzerland. This newish Schengen country is applying the rules to the letter and I've heard of many who have been picked up for overstay and deported, with a banning order entered on Schengen Information System database.

It is one thing to be able to exit the zone without incident (maybe you could find a border that's relatively lax and maybe you have a passport from somewhere that's only given a perfunctory glance) ... but I can't imagine any border being lax enough to overlook your coming back immediately after such a long overstay. Honestly, should you choose to leave for 90 days, I would plan on not being able to re-enter.

Sorry but like most of the other posters, you chose to overstay take the consequences. Be honest and ask you nearest Consulate, personally I hope it does cost you if only to make you realise that the rules apply to YOU

What we are hoping for is any advice on the best way to exit the Schengen Zone with the least amount of risk. (i.e. are some countries more lax than others?).

I find the Danish immigration authorities to be very indifferent, and they would probably be my first choice. Amsterdam used to be a joke, but they seemed to have tightened up.

Assuming that we are able to exit without any issues, and stay out for 90 days, will we be able to re-enter the Schengen Zone without worry, or is there a chance that they will take a second look at our initial travel inside the Schengen Zone?

There is certainly a risk that they will put two and two together. You might reduce your risk by 'losing' your passport and getting a new one, but if there are electronic records of your entrance and exit, this won't do any good. All in all, though, if you make it out, I suspect that you are relatively free and clear, but there is some risk.

I know one Schengen country where the OP shouldn't enter to depart for home from: Switzerland. This newish Schengen country is applying the rules to the letter and I've heard of many who have been picked up for overstay and deported, with a banning order entered on Schengen Information System database.

Absolutely. Switzerland should be the LAST choice for the OP. They are ridiculously strict.

@ travelgourmet (& the OP) -- Based upon my (admittedly limited) experience, I would put Amsterdam as an area that can be quite thorough.

January 2011, I entered the zone thru AMS. On I had a prior stamp in May 2011 (entry - Frankfurt), but the June 2011 departure from Paris was very faint and it was difficult to read the date. I was pulled out of line and questioned very thoroughly to prove that I had not stayed longer than 90 days back in the spring. It did not matter to them that in the interim I had in/out stamps in October from a trip to Poland -- they're reasoning was that Poland may not have asked any questions, but they were certainly going to.

I say all that to say, just because you get out, does not mean they will not pay close attention when you are coming back in.

If your guidebooks date back to the 1980s or earlier, I can see where you got the idea you could get away with this. In my 20s, I knew people on both sides of the pond who overstayed their allowed time, worked under the table in hostels or used their own funds to simply hang out. As long as you kept your nose clean, stayed under the radar, and paid your own way, you were pretty much left alone.

But that was then and this is now. Sophisticated technology, post-9/11 and 7/7 security measures, and fragile economies have all combined to signal the death knell for any free and easy approach to visa rules.

It sounds like you love Italy. Don't spoil your chances of being unable to re-visit. Get yourself outside the Schengen zone ASAP and then go home. Italy will still be around next year. Spend the time between now and your next visit figuring out ways to stay there legally - for example, get a student visa and spend a year studying Italian language and culture.

@ travelgourmet (& the OP) -- Based upon my (admittedly limited) experience, I would put Amsterdam as an area that can be quite thorough.

Which is why I said that they seemed to have tightened up. But, at one time, they were very lax. I entered or left the Schengen area at AMS, maybe 25 times before I was ever asked a question or had any immigration official look at the passport, except to find an empty page.

Trust me - looking for an empty page means they are looking at your passport. It is also routinely scanned. You may not notice this but it is happening.

My experiences in the last couple of years indicate that exits are not a problem. In October 08 I had to request an exit stamp at Schiphol. The officer asked me why I wanted it. I told him because of Schengen. He replied "Oh, you'll never have to worry about that." I entered and exited Paris in December 09. I didn't notice until I got home that I had no stamps for coming or going. Maybe they use the chip in US passports for tracking. If they are not going to stamp passports why don't the governments switch to a credit card type piece of plastic that we can swipe through a reader at a turnstile? That would be more efficient, especially when returning to the USA.

The chip can be read out by the terminal only after they put the page with your photo on the scanner. At that moment the terminal has all the data from you chip.

If they didn't put your open passport on the scanner, they don't have any digital data.

Funny, we travel ALOT - as we live in London and my hubby was travelling on a CDN passport until recently and he got a stamp in and out of the schengen EVERY time - with thorough checks of all the pages of his passport every time. We are talking every time into Italy, France, Hungary, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, US, Canada, and Portugal. Good luck.

Trust me - looking for an empty page means they are looking at your passport.

Then why do they stop when they find an empty page? If they were actually looking at the stamps in the passport, then why don't they look at the stamps in the back of the passport? If they are looking, they certainly aren't doing a thorough job.

I'm not saying that there aren't risks involved, but I think people tend to exaggerate the thoroughness of your average Schengen exit (or entrance) control.

Does anyone know if the same time restrictions apply to UK passport holders who want to spend more that 90 days in Europe? The UK of course is not a Schenigan country.

Does anyone know if the same time restrictions apply to UK passport holders who want to spend more that 90 days in Europe? The UK of course is not a Schenigan country.

If you mean British passport, no because UK is in EU and as EU citizens you have complete freedom to live, work, study or retire anywhere in EU.

If British passports had that restriction I'd be in trouble now after 27 years in the Netherlands .

Thanks for that, I thought it might have been different for UK citizens as the Schenigan zone seems to be a closed border zone.

Having said that you are free to live work retire in teh EU it is worth saying that not all Schengen countries are also EU countries, just as not all EU countries are Schengen.

So if the country you are interested in is not in the EU you still need to check what their rules are.

Well OP disappeared!

In jail?

I can reconfirm that CPH is a good choice for those that overstayed and are looking to leave the Schengen area without too many questions. Just went through exit control. No scan. Agent opened passport and landed on a semi-empty page. Stamped in something approximating a clear area. Said good morning and I was through.

What always strikes me is the naivity of people to wait until the 90 day period has elapsed, and then start to worry.

Anything beyond the Schengen agreement is in the competence of the respective EU or Schengen member state.
Some countries have (and some don't have) legal procedures for allowing non-EU citizens to stay for longer periods (without the liberty to freely move within the EU or Schengen area), or to extend a stay based on a Schengen visa waiver scheme - when they can prove sufficient funding and insurance. The decision is at the sole discretion of the immigration officer, and it does not give any residence status besides being "tolerated", and obviously no permission to work. But it makes the longer stay legal.

It's always worth to inquire about the legal options at the compentent places (and that is not travel bulletin boards but the respective embassies) before you plan a trip that can violate the 90 day rule.

Anything beyond the Schengen agreement is in the competence of the respective EU or Schengen member state.

No it isn't. When a country signs up to full Schengen acquis (agreement), they give up the ability to have its own immigration rules for those affected by Schengen regulations - i.e. tourists and other short-term visitors. As there is no mechanism for extending the 90-in-180 days tourist stay, they cannot offer permission to stay just within their territory beyond it. The only thing they can regulate is the issue of long-term national visas, but you cannot switch from Schengen stay. You have to return to your country of usual residence and apply for the national visa (type D).

So for those liable to Schengen rules, after 90 days they have only two options. To leave Schengen and stay away for 90 days before returning, or go back to their own country and apply for a national visa for one of Schengen states.

First of all you, you simply should have gotten a visa and I hope you didn't ignore the law out of contempt and arrogance because that's why many people see Americans in a negative light.

Having said that, Germany is where you will be most scrutinized, but in Sweden they don't even bother looking at your passport. If you didn't want to get a visa you could have gone to England after your legal period in Italy had passed- the English countryside is spectacular, and the UK allows Americans to stay for six months w/o visa, and it's not in the Schengen zone. Or you could have alternated three months in Italy and three months in the UK forever, if you want to remain in Europe.

Alec, sorry but that is not true as a general statement.

I have no clue how other EU/Schengen member states regulate this, but the German Foreigerns' Law clearly states that the Schengen visa can be extended beyond the 90/180d limit an unlimited number of times, each time for (usually) a 3-6 months period. In addition, national long-stay visa for temporary residence with or without working permits can be applied for, even if that person is currently staying in Germany under the Schengen visa (or waiver) scheme.
For either procedure, it is not required to leave Germany but simply address the nearest foreigners' affairs office and file an application - if both passport and the Schengen visa are still valid.

Other countries may regulate this differentely, of course, or have other national residence titles for other purposes or different lengths of stay, but this matter is too complicated to solve it on a travel board in one sentence or two.
Therefore I suggested to address the respective embassy with these questions while still at home to familiarize oneself with the options.

Cowboy1968

All you are stating is that in Germany, type D visa/residence permit can be applied in-country for certain nationals, such as Americans, Australians, Canadians, Japanese etc. It's not true to say that Schengen visa/visa waiver can be extended unlimited number of times, as that is plainly not true and runs counter to Schengen acquis.

Alec / Cowboy --
I can't speak for Germany (or other nations), but in the Netherlands you can enter as an ordinary tourist (e.g., with a US passport you don't need a visa to stay 90-out of-180 days), and after you arrive can apply for a temporary residence permit if you anticipate needing to stay longer. You apply with the immigration/visa office and need to show the reason why you are staying, for how long, and solvency (~ 900euros for each month of stay, going back to the date you first arrived). It can take a very long time to actually receive the temporary residence permit, and sometimes it is denied. But it is possible to get and you don't have to return to your home country to do so.

If you are from a country that required getting a visa to enter NL, then I think you may have to apply for the temporary residence permit prior to entering the country, but not certain about that.

Simple solution, I have been in and out of the EU (US Passport) for years. I now live in Asia. When I go to Italy or Germany as I have friends there about 2 days later just register your hotel address or where you will be staying with the local police. Then right BEFORE say 1 week your stamp is due apply for a extension or in Italy "Permission De Soggiorno" for tourist you will get it in ether countries where your at. Now especially in Germany before you leave be sure to De-register with the local police. That's it, leaving Italy on a US passport is not scanned all the time just if the passport looks bad. 10 years in and out if your paperwork is OK not to worry and I am flying back to Asia too so ??

For all the Illegals Italy well dressed at Exit control not too much of a problem, but they could scan it at any time so be aware..

My son will be entering via Amsterdam from London June 4, 2012 and wanted to stay until September 28, 2012. After reading all this I realize he cannot do it due to the Schengen rule. If he leaves one of the Schengen countries and goes back to London on the 89th day will he be OK to stay in England until Sept. 28 when his flight is scheduled to return to the US????

janice1312: Yes. He is allowed up to 90 days in Schengen and up to 6 months in the UK (assuming no issues that might ban him)

Anyone interested in the ins and outs of Schengen should read this thread. It has everything:

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/something-strange-happend-to-me-at-the-oslo-gardermoen-airport.cfm

I was just going to ask if anyone remembered a poster called Sandy! He had this elaborate plan to scam the system, and when people took him to task he flipped out. Is that the same guy?

That's a him.

Re-reading that provided a much needed belly laugh. Between his mother's credit card and Hans the Norwegian immigration officer, I nearly died of laughter. Sandy was a classic, that's for sure!

Hi there,

I just want to share my story so that if someone is in a similar predicament they might have an option.

I have provided an in depth account of my experience below. If you don't have time to read then here is a summary.

Summary: In July 2012 I was stopped at Greek borders trying to enter Bulgaria, they believed I had overstayed in the Schengen region for over a year. I was driving a Van. As a result they would fine me 1100 euros and ban me for 3 years entering the Schengen region. They allowed me to turn around and decide what I should do. I avoided this penalty by getting rid of the Van, catching a flight from Thessalonki, Greece to Rome, Italy. I read the Italian borders aren't as enforcing with the Schengen Treaty. I exited the Schengen region from Rome no problems flying to Hong Kong.

Extended account:

I'm from Australia and had the 2 year UK working visa. I arrived in the UK and Europe in July 2011 for a backpacking tour with my girlfriend. Once we finished our backpacking we returned to England from France via an overnight bus from Aime La Plagne (French Alps) to Nottingham, England. We were never stamped exiting France or the Schengen region! In April 2012 my girlfriend and I decided to buy a small camper van and tour Europe again. So we bought one in London then hopped on the ferry from Dover to Calais in April 2012. After touring through France, Spain, Portugal, Italy and then finally Greece for 2 and a half months, I dropped my girlfriend off at Athens airport, she needed to get home on a family matter. I was intending to drive from Greece to Holland via the Balkan countries to get a ferry back to England by the end of July.

Approaching the Greek/Bulgarian border I handed over my passport to my shock the Greek police informed me they believed I had been in the EU or Schengen region for over a year! Upon inspection of my passport I realised that we weren't stamped entry into the Schengen region at the Ferry dock in Calais, France. The last entry stamp was when we initially entered Europe in July 2011. The ferry was around 2-3am in the morning, we just drove out of the port gates being waved through by an official!

So unless I'm mistaken the French borders need to get their act together!

Based on my passport I had overstayed the 90 days for another 9-10 months! In order for me to have left Greece in to Bulgaria I would have to pay an 1100 euro fine and a minimum 3 year ban from the Schengen zone!

I was shocked.

I tried to prove it to them with paperwork of the sale of the van I purchased in London only a few months back and hotel accommodation etc. While they said they 'believed me' based on my passport they would still have to enforce the penalty. I called my Australian embassy in Athens and they were no help at all. They said it was a matter for the Greek Authorities. Well the Greek authorities position was already made quite clear to me!

Result: The Greek border police allowed me to turn around if I wanted to and not incur the penalties. But I saw that my passport had been scanned and most likely entered in to the Schengen system. I turned around and stayed a few nights in Thessaloniki to decide what to do. I thought I couldn't fly out from Athens to Australia or the UK as I would be leaving the Schengen from Greece and I'm on the Greek system now. So I decided to unfortunately give away my van to a scrap yard then fly from Thessalonki, Greece to Rome, Italy. As Italy are part of the Schengen I did not breach anything with this flight. I then booked a flight from Rome to Hong Kong with the hope that Italy and Greece did not share information. I was correct. I got through immigration no problem at all despite technically overstaying the Schengen visa (as apparent on my passport).

I share this story as I believe the Schengen treaty, while great for citizens of Europe, is terrible for genuine tourists. Technically with the 90 day visa for 25 countries, this gives you just over 3 days in each country! I hate comparisons to America or Australia which have similar visa time frames. Europe is unique with so many different cultures, a tourist (given the time) needs a lot more than 3 months to explore. Someone like myself coming from 30 hours of travelling from Australia I want to see as much as I can in one trip. My experience resulted in me leaving the EU much more prematurely than expected. It then meant Euro countries losing AT LEAST a couple of thousand euros I had budgeted for the rest of my tour. Compound that over millions of tourists who need to exit but who could stay and keep touring results in considerable losses in tourist dollars!

I know this is not official info so your experience maybe different but nonetheless I hope this helps.

cheers

Compare the size of the US to the size of Europe. Compare the size of Australia to the size of Europe. I have been to the US several times and have barely seen anything of it. Even if I stayed for my full 90 days there that would still only be 1.8 days per state. Many states are bigger than European countries, each state is as unique as a European country.

The Schengen agreement was not made to make life easier or more difficult for tourists or those who choose to break the law and over stay. You were fortunate. Do not encourage others to break the law as you did - they may not be so lucky.

Hetis, maybe I misread, but I don´t believe that he did break the law. His passport was not stamped on re-entry, which often happens. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the tourist to make sure that he/she has the correct stamps...but it is easy to overlook.

"Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the tourist to make sure that he/she has the correct stamps."

It isn't.

In any civilised country (and Greece purports to be civilised), it's the responsibility of the police to prove a crime. If backpacker 2012 is telling the whole truth accurately, the police wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of making their case stand up in court: he had a ton of circumstantial evidence which collectively proved the police allegation was complete nonsense. Like, for example, the paperwork proving he'd bought the car in London in April 2012.

Anyone who's ever crossed a European border knows it's often absolutely not local policy to stamp non visa nationals' passports at borders. Especially anyone in a UK-registered car driving through French immigration at Dover, where the French police can't be arsed most of the time even asking us to stop.

Backpacker2012 - again if he's telling the truth - has a legitimate beef with incompetent bureaucratic Greek police (yes: there'a double redundancy there) and with the useless Australian diplomat (again, a redundancy) who didn't do his job properly.

When we stupidly let Europe's worst governed country join the Common Market in 1981, part of the deal was that they had to prove they'd acquired the trappings of civilised behaviour, however screamingly obvious it was they had no interest in anything other than stealing the maximum amount they could from the rest of us. A police force that pig-headedly insists that a man who'd been in London in April must have been in Schengen for a year by July is incompatible with the promises Greece made 30 years ago.

Which, of course, is news to no-one

Definetely an unfortunate experience. And one can only speculate why the French border control at Calais port did not do their job.
But I doubt that more than one percent of all tourists visiting one or more Schengen countries have the time, the desire, or the funds to stay longer than 90 days. Even if there was no such restriction.
And if you were desperate (and wealthy enough) to spend 6 or 12 months in one country you can still apply for the long-term national tourist visa.
So in the real world, this is probably a negligable problem.

Hetismij2 if you read my post correctly you would understand I didn't break the law. I have posted my story on two forums so people can maybe get some info from my experience, but some people are too quick to judge.

Claiming that its my fault for not being stamped is really clutching at straws. At what point can we say I reasonably did what I could as a civilian to follow the letter of the law? Our ferry from Dover to Calais was at 3am in the morning of a Tuesday I believe, only a handful of passengers. At what point is it reasonable to think when I'm being waived through by French border control that I have done enough?

I am telling the whole truth. I presented documents to the Greek police, to 3 separate individuals in fact. These documents were proof of purchase of the vehicle in Feb 2012, hotel receipts from Liverpool and Edinburgh in March/April 2012 etc etc. They said I quote “I believe you, but based on your passport if you want to cross borders you must receive the penalty”. No leeway or provision to call up joe blogs in France to confirm my claims.

Worth noting: we presented our passports various times throughout the Schengen region including the French/Spanish border, Italy to Greece ferry port (Brindisi) and random inspections by Spanish and Italian police as we sometimes slept in rest areas the foreign plates would draw attention to local police. Each time there was never any mention of the discrepancy. Nor did my girlfriend have any problems flying from Athens to Melbourne with the exact same passport discrepancy as mine. It demonstrates considerable gaps in the application of the law. Of which has been mentioned many times before by other experiences.

The Schengen and its states are unique to the world. I too have been to the US 3 times and yes there is much to explore but land size does not matter, the beauty about Europe is that there are so many cultures in such small confines, from an American or Australians perspective. There are different cultures but also languages and they are separate countries so its not same at all to America or Australia.

People are increasingly able and are travelling for longer periods than ever before. Travelling first hand I visited over 30 hostels and 10 hotels in the past year in Europe. From my experience the majority of people staying in these places were people from America, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Canada and China. All non-EU countries and for the better part reasonably affluent travellers. A lot of them were in extended travel scenarios: gap years, post uni gap years, permanent travellers, undecided how long they would stay etc etc. And the travel playing field is changing with organisations like couchsurfing.com and mindmyhouse.com allow travellers to extend their tours for much longer periods than ever before. The younger generations are catching on to these initiatives, and the occasional mature traveller is too.

My point after all this is there should be provisions for extended Schengen visas to a minimum 6 months. With technology and ever changing ways people are finding to attract tourists to their little part of the world, shouldn't the border policies adapt to promote tourism? Preventing a tourist returning for at least 3 years is counter productive I would have thought.

I sympathize with not being stamped out of a Schengen country.

When I flew out of Barcelona to the UK in 2007, I made a valiant attempt to get my passport stamped. There was no one at passport control on the way to the gate so I went back to the passport control officer who was stamping people in. He refused to help me and there seemed to be no one else around. Of course I had my passport stamped on the way in to the UK so at least that would help in case of future difficulties, but I don't know what else I could have done in Barcelona to get a stamp. Also at that time we had to fill in forms upon entry to Spain which we were supposed to return upon departure. According to that piece of paper I guess I am still in Spain.

I am an Australian travelling visa free in Europe.

I arrived in Schengen Greece on April 17 and return on October 4 such that on October 16, I will have been in the Schengen Area an accumulated 90 days, satisfying the maximum of 90 days in any (180 day) 6 month period rule. Can I start a second 90 days and 6 months on October 17 or do I have to leave for some period such as 90 days as some people are telling me?

Perhaps I may have to start a second 90 days and 6 months from October 4 which will still give me a valuable extra 78 days!

Can I start a second 90 days and 6 months on October 17 or do I have to leave for some period such as 90 days as some people are telling me?

What you don't tell us is after arriving in Greece on April 17, when did you leave Schengen? If it was 90 days after arrival, you must stay away for 90 days before you can re-enter Schengen. If it was less than 90 days, say 60 days, you can still stay the remaining 30 days in the period of 180 days from April 17.