alamedadan

Hi...it's time for our annual "what part of Europe are we going to next spring" conversation. Last March we spent three nights in Venice (Dorsoduro, which was fantastic) and a week in Lucca. We absolutely fell in love with Lucca. We rented a villa just outside the walls, across the street from the train station.

So here's what we loved about Lucca, and ideally what we want in our next Italian (or elsewhere in Europe) villa:

*a medium-sized city, big enough for good shopping and interesting things to see, but not too big or overwhelming
*easy rail access to most areas of interest
*a well-pickled inner city, even if there's sprawl outside the perimeter, like Brugge
*off the beaten track of most tour groups
*a fairly temperate climate in March/April
*kid-friendly (we have two daughters aged 6 and 9 who have been to Europe three times)

Any suggestions?

Dayle

Hi Alamedadan,

So on your last trip, staying in Lucca for a week, did you travel exclusively by train or did you have a car? Where were your daytrips?

alamedadan

No car, but we came close to it one day to head up into the Garfegnana (sp?). Side trips were Pisa, Viareggio and Florence, all by train.

gabygail

Renting a villa near a train station is tough. To fully explore Umbria, for example, you need a car. The same with Sicily, Sardinia and Puglia which are all nice in the spring. The Cinque Terre may be crawling with tourists but there is a reason. You can hop on the train or a boat and head north or south. You can also hike between the towns. (The only long trek is from Vernazza to Monterosso. The rest are more walks than hikes.) And you if you book in advance you can rent an apartment with a view.

www.kidscantravel.com

Dayle

Hi again Alamedadan,

If you want to follow the Cinque Terre idea, Santa Margherita Ligure would be a good town. We stayed 3 nights and really enjoyed it - May trip. From there you could visit the 5 Cinque Terre villages, but also Portofino, Rapallo, and Genova -- all by train. It's a big enough town that there are restaurants and shopping and a lovely marina-side city park. It's a resort town, but not many tourists compared to locals, at least when we were there.

For the Tuscan and Umbrian areas, you really need to have a car.

An apartment in Venice would be wonderful! You will be there before the summer hoards and could do some great day trips via train on a couple of days - Verona and Padua as possible options. 7 days in Venice is not too much by the time you visit the other islands.

bobthenavigator

Interesting concept---I like the idea.
If you can go as late as May then I suggest Salzburg or St. Gilgen on the Wolfgangsee outside of Salzburg. Train trips to inclue Munich. If March, then I would consider southern Spain--perhaps Granada--or Sicily.

uktravelover

If you like Italy you could try Lago Maggiore and stay at Stresa. It's smaller than Lucca but good train and boat links. You can also get into Milan for the day and see the Last Supper or just enjoy the shops.

linawood

You like the same kind of place that we do (we love Lucca), and we also only travel on public transportation - only without children. It may be too early in the year, but I think Verona would fit your requirements. Easy day trips could be made to Padova, Bologna, Trento, Lake Garda, and even Bolzano (1-1/2 hr by train) to see the Iceman. And speaking of Trento, that is also a wonderful pedestrian town with possible day trips to Bolzano, Lake Garda, Verona, and many little towns in the Dolomites that would be accessible by the excellent bus system.
We haven't been to Ferrara but it is on my list because of the pedestrian nature of the walled town and access to Bologna and Ravenna (and more) for day trips.
Going further south for spring travel, Sorrento might be a possibility although it is small and very touristy. However it is an excellent base for daytrips in the area by bus, train, and boat.
We love Sicily but it is hard to think of a central place for daytrips on public transportation. Cefalu might be worth considering. Palermo is easy to reach. There is a good tourist infrastructure and various day tours are available (like to Agrigento) but I think would require too much bus time for kids).
Next spring we are planning to visit Lecce and Matera and Ischia. We're planning day trips out of Lecce and Ischia, but Matera is a sight in itself.

toni_g_b

What about Orvieto! We visited both Lucca and Orvieto in August 2003, and whereas we thoroughly enjoyed Lucca, we LOVED Orvieto. Of course, we all have different tastes but there was just something about the town - the setting, the Etruscan museum and underground, the Duomo, the piazzas at night, charming shops. I think it's becoming more and more discovered by the tourists, but I would think a March/April visit would mitigate against the crowds.

From there, you can visit Spoleto, Assisi, Cortona, Deruta for ceramics by train - although I do think a car is the way to really go. You never know what's around the next bend!

alamedadan

Orvieto sounds great! I like the choices of day trips, and the fact it's about halfway between Rome and Florence. How is it different/the same as Lucca?

tuscanlifeedit

Lucca is a much bigger town than Orvieto, with a population of around 80K as compared to around 20K for Orvieto.

For me, the size difference is important. I don't feel that Orvieto could amuse me for very long. There are not the variety of shops, museums, markets, churches, and restaurants that you had in Lucca. Lucca also has a good many interesting local events.

I would think Verona would be a better fit for your family, with many day trip otions, and lots and lots to do in town.

swagman

may I throw Siena into the mix.

S

victoria_reynolds

For small sized cities (where rail service tends to be more extensive than in Italy), I can recommend: Meiringen in Switzerland where we spent 8 days hiking (a little) and doing day trips in the Berner Oberland Region (Bern, Thun, Jungfrauhoch, Murren, Grindelwald, Brienz, et al) or Zell am See in Austria (near Salzburg in the Lakes region). However both of these are better saved for summer when your children will be out of school. For Switzerland, ours were 8 and 12, respectively and for Austria, 10, and 14. Germany was great too, but we didn't "base" ourselves in one place. You could though in some place like Munich if that's not too large for your tastes. From there, you could see a lot of Bavaria.

If you want to be in Italy again and you haven't been to Rome, I would spend a week there and do the day trips. It's obviously NOT a small city, but you could rent an apt for a week or more and find everything you're looking for and more...Being in Rome with younger children may be a little stressful because of the traffic, so it might be a trip for when they are a little older. For us, it was a must see because of all the historic, cultural, religious sites of significance there. Plus it's got atmosphere and attitude.

willit

As a fellow Luccaphile, I would endorse Siena (larger, but good transport links, not much traffic within the walls).

Another Italian town where I feel very much "at home" is Cefalú in Sicily. This might be a little less suitable , althugh the trains do run to Palermo and Messina. It is also possible to get to Agrigento by train (there would be a change involved).

buongiorno

A fun little day trip from Lucca is Montecatini Alto...what a view!

toni_g_b

I agree that Lucca is larger than Orvieto, and thus would have more to offer, but if you're talking about the centro storico, I think Orvieto beats it by a mile. It's situated on top of a tufa outcropping; the approach is jaw-dropping. You could easily spend a day exploring the old town; we didn't explore the lower, newer town so I can't comment. Then the next days can be spent exploring the surrounding courtryside which is breathtaking. At night the piazzas are peaceful and alive at the same time - if that makes sense. We felt like we were part of the community not just observers.
Go to wikipedia to see if it gives you more insight about the town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orvieto

tsmith

How would Lucca be around Christmas time? Do you think it would be a good town to spend time with teenagers?

LucieV

Currently typing this from Lucca, having just left Orvieto. Interesting to see the different perceptions of these for-me-very-different places. Lucca has been something of a disappointment for me, this being my 7th visit to Italy, first visit to Lucca. Orvieto (which I have now visited 3 or 4 times) is much more refined, much less commercial (ostensibly), much smaller, much cleaner, much more romantic. For atmosphere, Orvieto is much more appealing to me. Also, the shops in Orvieto are much more elegant, much more high-end (not that I can afford any of those beautifuly designed clothes, but I do love to see what's 'up'!) To each his own, as they say...but I have to say I'm constantly having to re-learn The Lesson: be careful what you read & hear about ANYthing (not just travel advice, of course!) We are all so very different in our sensibilities!

(I realize that the fact that I'm sitting at a computer says a lot about the appeal of Lucca for me, a person who generally can't wait to 'hit the streets'...sigh!)

etruria

May I suggest Viterbo as a base and the surrounding hill towns, lakes, beaches, Etruscan sites, Renaissance gardens, for day trips to keep adults and kids amused. The variety of feste and happenings in spring are overwhelming and each different. Viterbo is a layer cake of history and still un-tainted by too much tourism. There are now 2 US educational programs here.

FlyingMaltese

May I add Arezzo, which has outstanding antiques, a gorgeous cathedral, nice central square,and a train station.

Bologna has beautiful colonnaded streets, towers, cathedrals, fountains, history, big train station with lots of trains passing through, and the best food in Italy.

Perugia has a beautiful town square, great museums and cathedrals, a great tour of the Perugina chocolate factory with unlimited Baci chocolates, and a train station near lots of towns in Umbria.