Our 3 week trip to Germany and Austria
Sep 10th, 2004, 04:34 AM
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Our 3 week trip to Germany and Austria
First, some background:
We were three: my wife Heidi - a native German and university-trained as a translator, our adult "special" son and I - a (somewhat) retired architect, understanding only a bit of German. Although we've made a number of visits to Heidi's family in the northern Schwarzwald, she'd never visited other regions of Germany, nor Austria. Often in the past, while she connected with her extended family, I'd take off on day-trips, so I got to know her home area quite well. Since her mother's death a number of years ago, we've traveled together for pleasure, in Britain, France and Italy. Thus it was time to do this trip.
We flew into and out of Frankfurt (I'd tried, but failed to arrange for a convenient flight home from Munich), renting a car through Gemut/Auto Europe and right-off-the-bat we had a problem. We'd requested a VW Golf wagon (and paid $794 for 21 days in advance back in June) only to find that one was unavailable. We were offered an 'upgrade' to a large, boxy hearse-like vehicle (with inadequate storage) which I refused and therefore had to cancel my voucher (I've received a full refund). At the next desk, we found Sixt, which offered a Ford Focus wagon and it turned out to be perfect for us. And, it was diesel-fueled, saving 10-15% over regular gas. We totaled 4880kms at a cost of 260Euros.
I chose to start our trip near-enough to FRA and also near-enough to Bamberg and Rothenburg-am-T, which were two of our targets. Thus I chose the attractive town of Iphofen and http://www.gaestehaus-duering.de/, 1km outside of town. We paid 65E/night (3 nights) for a large ground-floor apartment and a full breakfast. We liked it there so we returned for our final night before flying home.
Bamberg disappointed a bit (maybe expectations were a bit high) but Rothenburg did not. We were there in the evening for the night watchman's tour (a delight!) and early the next morning until 1pm when we noticed that there were more few tourists around. We drove the Romantische Strasse, enjoying Dinkelsbuhl and Harburg on that afternoon. A very nice day.
We headed for Mussbach, near Neustadt in the Pfalz, where Heidi's school chum lives. In getting there, I took the scenic route following the Tauber and Main Rivers and through Michelstadt to reach Mannheim in the late afternoon. Heidi went to school there during the War until her home was bombed in a Sept '43 raid and she hadn't been back since. It was quite emotional for her, as you can imagine. Her apartment block was on the street adjacent to the Schloss and the replacement building is now part of the university located within the Schloss. We visited her still-intact church and we sat in the very pew where she worshipped with her mother and Oma. We saw only the façade of the school she attended and then drove around town, much of which was destroyed (except the Wasserturm) and only the street layout was recognizable to her.
Her friend's late husband's family owns a winery and restaurant and we had a jolly time with them there. The following day, while Heidi and Ute reminisced, our son and I hit all the towns on the Weinstrasse, from Bad Durkheim to Leinsweiler (where I drove up into the vineyards and we had our picnic). I found only Rhodt and St Martin of much interest and I certainly prefer the Alsace or the Badischer Weinstrassen.
During the War, Heidi's widowed Mom and her two daughters fled Mannheim to Buhl near Baden Baden, where one of her two sisters lived and where Heidi's extended family continue to live. Thus we arrived for a two-day stay (we booked a ferienwohnung in a handsome home overlooking the valley at 25E/night; we made our own breakfast). We had two nice evening meals with her cousins and their families and we paid emotional visits to the family burial plot and to Heidi's last surviving aunt in a nursing home. This aunt was married to a WWII test pilot (gliders and helicopters) and they raised their family for quite a few years in the USSR after he was captured and exploited for his technical knowledge. They managed a harrowing escape through East Germany and settled in Buhl where he founded a successful engineering company and, notably, built his home with a flat roof strong enough for helicopter landings.
Before visiting Heidi's sister and family in Freiburg, we spent a few enjoyable hours in Strasbourg (although driving into the center was a mistake because of road construction). I also got to spend some time walking around in downtown Freiburg, one of my favorites. Heidi took glee in noting that her sister's grown grandchildren speak a proper German to the dismay of their elders, who continue to use the singsong Freiburg dialect. As a matter of fact, Heidi noticed, and commented on, the many and diverse regional dialects she heard wherever we went on this trip.
We were three: my wife Heidi - a native German and university-trained as a translator, our adult "special" son and I - a (somewhat) retired architect, understanding only a bit of German. Although we've made a number of visits to Heidi's family in the northern Schwarzwald, she'd never visited other regions of Germany, nor Austria. Often in the past, while she connected with her extended family, I'd take off on day-trips, so I got to know her home area quite well. Since her mother's death a number of years ago, we've traveled together for pleasure, in Britain, France and Italy. Thus it was time to do this trip.
We flew into and out of Frankfurt (I'd tried, but failed to arrange for a convenient flight home from Munich), renting a car through Gemut/Auto Europe and right-off-the-bat we had a problem. We'd requested a VW Golf wagon (and paid $794 for 21 days in advance back in June) only to find that one was unavailable. We were offered an 'upgrade' to a large, boxy hearse-like vehicle (with inadequate storage) which I refused and therefore had to cancel my voucher (I've received a full refund). At the next desk, we found Sixt, which offered a Ford Focus wagon and it turned out to be perfect for us. And, it was diesel-fueled, saving 10-15% over regular gas. We totaled 4880kms at a cost of 260Euros.
I chose to start our trip near-enough to FRA and also near-enough to Bamberg and Rothenburg-am-T, which were two of our targets. Thus I chose the attractive town of Iphofen and http://www.gaestehaus-duering.de/, 1km outside of town. We paid 65E/night (3 nights) for a large ground-floor apartment and a full breakfast. We liked it there so we returned for our final night before flying home.
Bamberg disappointed a bit (maybe expectations were a bit high) but Rothenburg did not. We were there in the evening for the night watchman's tour (a delight!) and early the next morning until 1pm when we noticed that there were more few tourists around. We drove the Romantische Strasse, enjoying Dinkelsbuhl and Harburg on that afternoon. A very nice day.
We headed for Mussbach, near Neustadt in the Pfalz, where Heidi's school chum lives. In getting there, I took the scenic route following the Tauber and Main Rivers and through Michelstadt to reach Mannheim in the late afternoon. Heidi went to school there during the War until her home was bombed in a Sept '43 raid and she hadn't been back since. It was quite emotional for her, as you can imagine. Her apartment block was on the street adjacent to the Schloss and the replacement building is now part of the university located within the Schloss. We visited her still-intact church and we sat in the very pew where she worshipped with her mother and Oma. We saw only the façade of the school she attended and then drove around town, much of which was destroyed (except the Wasserturm) and only the street layout was recognizable to her.
Her friend's late husband's family owns a winery and restaurant and we had a jolly time with them there. The following day, while Heidi and Ute reminisced, our son and I hit all the towns on the Weinstrasse, from Bad Durkheim to Leinsweiler (where I drove up into the vineyards and we had our picnic). I found only Rhodt and St Martin of much interest and I certainly prefer the Alsace or the Badischer Weinstrassen.
During the War, Heidi's widowed Mom and her two daughters fled Mannheim to Buhl near Baden Baden, where one of her two sisters lived and where Heidi's extended family continue to live. Thus we arrived for a two-day stay (we booked a ferienwohnung in a handsome home overlooking the valley at 25E/night; we made our own breakfast). We had two nice evening meals with her cousins and their families and we paid emotional visits to the family burial plot and to Heidi's last surviving aunt in a nursing home. This aunt was married to a WWII test pilot (gliders and helicopters) and they raised their family for quite a few years in the USSR after he was captured and exploited for his technical knowledge. They managed a harrowing escape through East Germany and settled in Buhl where he founded a successful engineering company and, notably, built his home with a flat roof strong enough for helicopter landings.
Before visiting Heidi's sister and family in Freiburg, we spent a few enjoyable hours in Strasbourg (although driving into the center was a mistake because of road construction). I also got to spend some time walking around in downtown Freiburg, one of my favorites. Heidi took glee in noting that her sister's grown grandchildren speak a proper German to the dismay of their elders, who continue to use the singsong Freiburg dialect. As a matter of fact, Heidi noticed, and commented on, the many and diverse regional dialects she heard wherever we went on this trip.
Sep 10th, 2004, 04:37 AM
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We moved on towards our destination near Seefeld in Austria, via the Bodensee. We picnicked on the lakefront sand and then enjoyed exploring Meersburg, parking above the town and taking the pendel bus to it. Lindau was nice, but a second to Meersburg. We stayed at farmhouse B&B's in Kirchzarten near Freiburg (59E) and Neuravensburg near Lindau (54E).
We arrived in Leutasch after day's drive under dark and wet clouds, thus denying us the view and a planned hike near Pfronten. The Leutaschtal is a 17km x 1km wide valley, with a flat-bottomed floor and mountains as walls, that sits above Seefeld and Mittenwald, and links the two. We chose this location for a 6 night stay because we could easily reach the Garmisch and Innsbruck areas for our day trips. Our two-room fewo accommodation was ideal with a private entry from the garden. Our hosts were an athletic (cycling and x-country skiing) retired couple, (www.haus-schurr.de.vu) and we paid 40E/night plus a 30E clean-up charge.
Magically for us, the weather cleared and we ventured forth, first on a loop up the Oetztal, over the Timmelsjoch, where we had a memorable picnic, and then into Italy, through some gorgeous scenery in the Passeiertal and on to the beautiful town of Vipiteno. From there, before the sun set (with very few exceptions, I've avoided night driving in Europe), we were home after using the Brenner autobahn. It was a wonderful day.
Another beautiful day followed as we took on the Zugspitze by taking the cable car from the Eibsee station. The sky was cloudless and the air crisp and clear. We had our sandwiches with us of course. Coming down to earth again, we took a scenic and leisurely 2 hour hike around the Eibsee and then saw what a nice town Mittenwald was.
Getting an earlier than usual start, I drove the Brenner again, this time to the Dolomites and did the loop around the incredible Gruppa di Sella. We were denied the opportunity to go up the Passo Pordoi cable car because of cloud cover at the top. We also missed out on the Alpe di Siusi (Seiser Alm) because vehicle traffic has now been banned and we had insufficient time; I also didn't have time for Castelrotto, to my regret. This was a Sunday and our enjoyment of the scenery driving on these twisting mountainous roads was marred time and again by the many rampaging motorcyclists, who are no doubt anxious for the skiing season to begin. We were told that these fellows are ordinarily mild-mannered types whose personalities change drastically once they don the black leather and helmets.
On another outing we took the Seilbahn (chairlift) above Neustift in Stubaital and hiked and picnicked high above that lovely valley.
We purposefully avoided Innsbruck and Garmisch (also Ludwig's piles), intent instead on soaking in the rural alpine scenery and atmosphere. In fact, the area immediately surrounding Innsbruck, with that majestic mountainous background, seemed to be unfortunately cluttered with a high-speed road network. We whizzed through to and fro along the Inn Valley, yet it amazed us that the only road connecting Garmisch and Innsbruck (No 177) is one lane each way and was often slow moving; once we were unable to pass a huge logging truck inching downhill in first gear.
We arrived in Leutasch after day's drive under dark and wet clouds, thus denying us the view and a planned hike near Pfronten. The Leutaschtal is a 17km x 1km wide valley, with a flat-bottomed floor and mountains as walls, that sits above Seefeld and Mittenwald, and links the two. We chose this location for a 6 night stay because we could easily reach the Garmisch and Innsbruck areas for our day trips. Our two-room fewo accommodation was ideal with a private entry from the garden. Our hosts were an athletic (cycling and x-country skiing) retired couple, (www.haus-schurr.de.vu) and we paid 40E/night plus a 30E clean-up charge.
Magically for us, the weather cleared and we ventured forth, first on a loop up the Oetztal, over the Timmelsjoch, where we had a memorable picnic, and then into Italy, through some gorgeous scenery in the Passeiertal and on to the beautiful town of Vipiteno. From there, before the sun set (with very few exceptions, I've avoided night driving in Europe), we were home after using the Brenner autobahn. It was a wonderful day.
Another beautiful day followed as we took on the Zugspitze by taking the cable car from the Eibsee station. The sky was cloudless and the air crisp and clear. We had our sandwiches with us of course. Coming down to earth again, we took a scenic and leisurely 2 hour hike around the Eibsee and then saw what a nice town Mittenwald was.
Getting an earlier than usual start, I drove the Brenner again, this time to the Dolomites and did the loop around the incredible Gruppa di Sella. We were denied the opportunity to go up the Passo Pordoi cable car because of cloud cover at the top. We also missed out on the Alpe di Siusi (Seiser Alm) because vehicle traffic has now been banned and we had insufficient time; I also didn't have time for Castelrotto, to my regret. This was a Sunday and our enjoyment of the scenery driving on these twisting mountainous roads was marred time and again by the many rampaging motorcyclists, who are no doubt anxious for the skiing season to begin. We were told that these fellows are ordinarily mild-mannered types whose personalities change drastically once they don the black leather and helmets.
On another outing we took the Seilbahn (chairlift) above Neustift in Stubaital and hiked and picnicked high above that lovely valley.
We purposefully avoided Innsbruck and Garmisch (also Ludwig's piles), intent instead on soaking in the rural alpine scenery and atmosphere. In fact, the area immediately surrounding Innsbruck, with that majestic mountainous background, seemed to be unfortunately cluttered with a high-speed road network. We whizzed through to and fro along the Inn Valley, yet it amazed us that the only road connecting Garmisch and Innsbruck (No 177) is one lane each way and was often slow moving; once we were unable to pass a huge logging truck inching downhill in first gear.
Sep 10th, 2004, 04:41 AM
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For our next 6 night stop, we chose Marktschellenberg, 9km from Berchtesgaden and home.t-online.de/home/mur-hillebrand, another fewo at 45.50/night in a former farm house on a steep slope facing the famous Untersberg. We had a large apartment on the second floor accessed by outside stairs to the ubiquitous flower-draped balcony.
By this time I'd been criticized because we were spending too much time in the car and so I dropped my idea to drive over the Grossglockner. Instead, we leisurely explored almost every lane and byway of this beautiful area, frequently stopping and walking some of the many footpaths and I'm glad we did so. We took a particularly memorable hike from the end of the road that climbs towards the Hochkeil above Muhlbach near Bischofshofen, Austria for instance. We spent an entire day hiking down from the mittle station of the Jenner Seilbahn back to the car park in Koenigsee. What an experience!
Of course we went to Eagle's Nest by bus and for 4E/per and took an English-speaking tour. I drove a counter-clockwise loop through the Salzkammergut via Abtenau, getting to lovely Hallsatt by 10am (we were the first car into the ride-and-bus lot and the other tourists had not yet arrived in town). Traunkirchen was very nice and it'll be nicer when they build that tunnel that will avoid driving through, a la Hallstatt. We stopped at each of the other lakes, making it back home by sunset. Very, very nice.
We didn't care for Salzburg (except for Petersfriedhof). It was on a Saturday and, despite getting there fairly early, the place was mobbed ? not that we minded that for that's the very idea of a city. I just don't care for that type of architecture and the townscape turned me off with those vast plazas. Couldn't there be a few trees and/or fountains? We didn't stay there very long.
Returning for our flight home, I drove the 500km back to Iphofen for our last night. I left the autobahn to explore the Altmuhl Valley and Pappenheim. After all that we'd seen and done, it was a let-down.
By this time I'd been criticized because we were spending too much time in the car and so I dropped my idea to drive over the Grossglockner. Instead, we leisurely explored almost every lane and byway of this beautiful area, frequently stopping and walking some of the many footpaths and I'm glad we did so. We took a particularly memorable hike from the end of the road that climbs towards the Hochkeil above Muhlbach near Bischofshofen, Austria for instance. We spent an entire day hiking down from the mittle station of the Jenner Seilbahn back to the car park in Koenigsee. What an experience!
Of course we went to Eagle's Nest by bus and for 4E/per and took an English-speaking tour. I drove a counter-clockwise loop through the Salzkammergut via Abtenau, getting to lovely Hallsatt by 10am (we were the first car into the ride-and-bus lot and the other tourists had not yet arrived in town). Traunkirchen was very nice and it'll be nicer when they build that tunnel that will avoid driving through, a la Hallstatt. We stopped at each of the other lakes, making it back home by sunset. Very, very nice.
We didn't care for Salzburg (except for Petersfriedhof). It was on a Saturday and, despite getting there fairly early, the place was mobbed ? not that we minded that for that's the very idea of a city. I just don't care for that type of architecture and the townscape turned me off with those vast plazas. Couldn't there be a few trees and/or fountains? We didn't stay there very long.
Returning for our flight home, I drove the 500km back to Iphofen for our last night. I left the autobahn to explore the Altmuhl Valley and Pappenheim. After all that we'd seen and done, it was a let-down.
Sep 10th, 2004, 04:45 AM
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End Notes:
We learned a lot when Heidi gossiped with a local and after she managed to decipher that particular dialect. People sometimes tried to use Shrift Deutsche and sometimes with little success. (Once she was unable to do so ? in Sudtirol, where a distinct language is spoken, a kind of Latinized Italian, she says. Is it Romansche?.) For instance we learned that, because of the poor economy, this was an off-year in tourism. Also the weather so far had been unlike last year's. We ourselves saw no Americans other than at the obvious high-tourist spots (there were only a dozen of us on the English-speaking tour at Eagle's Nest) and this was confirmed by those Heidi spoke to.
We prefer to stay away from the center of towns or in hotels, in small and quiet family-run places, preferably where they take in only one guest at a time. We're thus free from road noises and patrons coming-and-going, etc. To do this I spent a considerable amount of time on the Net and, with Heidi's help of course, corresponding by email with our potential hosts. For our longer stays we relied on the Seefeld Accommodation Guide (www.seefeld.at) and the Berchtesgaden Accommodation Guide (www.berchtesgadener-land.com) to do our research. Most all of our hosts did not speak English and I can't imagine how one could do this kind of thing with no German. Thanks to Heidi's skills, we travel likewise in France and Italy - of course she's not needed in the UK (ha-ha). We prepared our own breakfast in each fewo and enjoyed home-like comfort.
Locating suitable places to have dinner we found to be quite easy compared, let's say, to France or Italy. There was no pretense about it. Most of the time we sat on a pleasant outdoor terrace. A number of times we opted to eat our big meal at the noon hour (we?d consume our picnic 'lunch' in the evening) after stumbling across an off-the-road place, known only to locals and hikers. What a delight. We always ate their tasty local specialties and the prices were very fair ? we averaged about 30E/meal for the three of us.
I think a key to enjoying a famous tourist site is to get there early before it gets too crowded. We'd be leaving as others were standing on line waiting to enter. Going to larger towns and cities is best done on weekends when there's no commuter traffic and we use the park-and-ride system.
We'd planned to keep in touch with our other kids at home via email using internet cafes. Alas we found none. I searched inner Bamberg to no avail so I used our T-Mobile phone with the international roaming feature instead.
I did the arithmetic on the cost of fuel on this trip and compared it to similar travel in the U.S. and I found that, on a cost per km or mile basis, it came to only slightly more than in the U.S. (@ $2/gallon).
We learned a lot when Heidi gossiped with a local and after she managed to decipher that particular dialect. People sometimes tried to use Shrift Deutsche and sometimes with little success. (Once she was unable to do so ? in Sudtirol, where a distinct language is spoken, a kind of Latinized Italian, she says. Is it Romansche?.) For instance we learned that, because of the poor economy, this was an off-year in tourism. Also the weather so far had been unlike last year's. We ourselves saw no Americans other than at the obvious high-tourist spots (there were only a dozen of us on the English-speaking tour at Eagle's Nest) and this was confirmed by those Heidi spoke to.
We prefer to stay away from the center of towns or in hotels, in small and quiet family-run places, preferably where they take in only one guest at a time. We're thus free from road noises and patrons coming-and-going, etc. To do this I spent a considerable amount of time on the Net and, with Heidi's help of course, corresponding by email with our potential hosts. For our longer stays we relied on the Seefeld Accommodation Guide (www.seefeld.at) and the Berchtesgaden Accommodation Guide (www.berchtesgadener-land.com) to do our research. Most all of our hosts did not speak English and I can't imagine how one could do this kind of thing with no German. Thanks to Heidi's skills, we travel likewise in France and Italy - of course she's not needed in the UK (ha-ha). We prepared our own breakfast in each fewo and enjoyed home-like comfort.
Locating suitable places to have dinner we found to be quite easy compared, let's say, to France or Italy. There was no pretense about it. Most of the time we sat on a pleasant outdoor terrace. A number of times we opted to eat our big meal at the noon hour (we?d consume our picnic 'lunch' in the evening) after stumbling across an off-the-road place, known only to locals and hikers. What a delight. We always ate their tasty local specialties and the prices were very fair ? we averaged about 30E/meal for the three of us.
I think a key to enjoying a famous tourist site is to get there early before it gets too crowded. We'd be leaving as others were standing on line waiting to enter. Going to larger towns and cities is best done on weekends when there's no commuter traffic and we use the park-and-ride system.
We'd planned to keep in touch with our other kids at home via email using internet cafes. Alas we found none. I searched inner Bamberg to no avail so I used our T-Mobile phone with the international roaming feature instead.
I did the arithmetic on the cost of fuel on this trip and compared it to similar travel in the U.S. and I found that, on a cost per km or mile basis, it came to only slightly more than in the U.S. (@ $2/gallon).
Sep 10th, 2004, 06:23 AM
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Thanks for this very interesting trip report. Seems we share a similar way of travelling 
although I use to prefer public transportation over car.
I am glad you explored and enjoyed the rural (and off the beaten path) places in Germany/Austria.
Could we see some photos online, please?
Ingo
although I use to prefer public transportation over car.I am glad you explored and enjoyed the rural (and off the beaten path) places in Germany/Austria.
Could we see some photos online, please?
Ingo
Sep 10th, 2004, 02:01 PM
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Great report, Tuck. We are planning to spend 2 nights in Bamberg on our trip next May. I also want to stop in Iphopen on the way to Frankfurt before we return home. Can you tell me why you were disappointed in Bamberg. Do you think we should spend more time in Meersburg (I'd planned on only 1 night? Thanks for your input.
Sep 10th, 2004, 03:32 PM
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bettyk, as I said, perhaps I was expecting more to Bamberg, after reading alot of raves. Its center is actually quite small and maybe that's what it was (Rothenburg seems much larger on the other hand). With the river flowing through, it was very pretty and I don't regret going there. Other than the Dom, we didn't tour the interior of any of the buildings or museums (I'm mostly interested in the townscapes). Two nights, but only one day, might be about right IMO. We were there for about 6 hours.
Meersburg too is small and we thoroughly walked it in about two enjoyable hours. I just loved the Marktplatz in the Oberstadt and so spent and thus spent half that time there.
These time allocations are all about priorities and what other things are on your agenda. It's personal of course, whether or not your valuable time would best be spent elsewhere by moving on, or by lingering.
Thanks for reading my piece.
Meersburg too is small and we thoroughly walked it in about two enjoyable hours. I just loved the Marktplatz in the Oberstadt and so spent and thus spent half that time there.
These time allocations are all about priorities and what other things are on your agenda. It's personal of course, whether or not your valuable time would best be spent elsewhere by moving on, or by lingering.
Thanks for reading my piece.
Sep 10th, 2004, 05:05 PM
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Thanks, Tuck. I appreciate your opinion. Maybe once we get to Bamberg, if we find it not to our liking, we can spend some time in Coburg or even Wurzburg. Also, it sounds like our time in Meersburg will be about right.
I also love Rothenburg. I've been there several times and each time I discover something new that I missed on my previous visits.
I also love Rothenburg. I've been there several times and each time I discover something new that I missed on my previous visits.
Sep 11th, 2004, 03:05 PM
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Preferences such as Bamberg compared to Rothenburg would depend a lot on your personal likes and dislikes.
We thought Rothenburg pretty and worth an afternoon and evening--while it is done very well, it was a bit too contrived and too much a tourist set piece--and not a part of reality, set apart from the surrounding town--to be one of our favorite places to actually stay in. Though, again, it is really well done and pretty and definitely worth visiting.
On the other hand, the Altstadt in Bamberg is an intergral part of a real city in the ebb and flow of everyday life. It isn't designed to appeal to the tourist's vision of what an old German town should look like. Maybe we are slowing down, but we took two full days and didn't see everything we wanted to see (e.g., the old Benedictine Monastery with its brewery museum, and Altenburg Castle). Don't quite see how anyone can see everything in 6 hours, even not going inside any buildings--it must all depend on what you're interested in, or not interested in.
But that's why they make so many different color neckties--if we all liked the same thing, we'd all wear blue.
Reminds me of less than glowing report I wrote about our trip to Nova Scotia a couple of months ago--you would have thought I had advocated eating babies from the really viscious verbal attacks. I had the feeling that if our home addresses were posted with our trip reports, I would have found my mailbox tipped over and the house TP'd, at the very least.
Though unlike TuckH, we do like museums and such--plus with Bamberg being the beer drinking center of Germany, I could have stayed there quite happily for much longer than two days.
We thought Rothenburg pretty and worth an afternoon and evening--while it is done very well, it was a bit too contrived and too much a tourist set piece--and not a part of reality, set apart from the surrounding town--to be one of our favorite places to actually stay in. Though, again, it is really well done and pretty and definitely worth visiting.
On the other hand, the Altstadt in Bamberg is an intergral part of a real city in the ebb and flow of everyday life. It isn't designed to appeal to the tourist's vision of what an old German town should look like. Maybe we are slowing down, but we took two full days and didn't see everything we wanted to see (e.g., the old Benedictine Monastery with its brewery museum, and Altenburg Castle). Don't quite see how anyone can see everything in 6 hours, even not going inside any buildings--it must all depend on what you're interested in, or not interested in.
But that's why they make so many different color neckties--if we all liked the same thing, we'd all wear blue.
Reminds me of less than glowing report I wrote about our trip to Nova Scotia a couple of months ago--you would have thought I had advocated eating babies from the really viscious verbal attacks. I had the feeling that if our home addresses were posted with our trip reports, I would have found my mailbox tipped over and the house TP'd, at the very least.
Though unlike TuckH, we do like museums and such--plus with Bamberg being the beer drinking center of Germany, I could have stayed there quite happily for much longer than two days.
Sep 11th, 2004, 04:13 PM
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Really enjoyed your report. My great-grandmother's maiden name was "Schwarzwalder", and I just recently learned that means the Black Forest area. I'll have to do a lot more research before we go to Germany, but am certainly grateful for your information.
Sep 11th, 2004, 07:46 PM
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Rufus, I think the "beer" part probably just cinched it for Bamberg, especially if my better half sees this! Bamberg will be our last stop on the trip before heading home, so we will probably be slowing down a bit anyway.
I understand what you are saying about Rothenburg but when you wake up early in the morning before the tour buses come, I find it to be especially beautiful and can easily imagine myself transported back in time (as long as I position myself where I can't see the MacDonald's sign!!).
I understand what you are saying about Rothenburg but when you wake up early in the morning before the tour buses come, I find it to be especially beautiful and can easily imagine myself transported back in time (as long as I position myself where I can't see the MacDonald's sign!!).
Sep 12th, 2004, 05:04 AM
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Thank you, Tuck, for the great report! I am so glad to see little Harburg mentioned. I'm hoping it is still as quiet as when I spent a night there ten or so years ago.
Like Ingo, I'd love to see some photographs. J.
Like Ingo, I'd love to see some photographs. J.
Sep 12th, 2004, 06:18 AM
#15
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I've got some great photos, including some taken in Harburg looking back towards the town as we climbed to the schloss. I'm sorry that they're not digital.
If it hadn't been for tips I got from this board, I'd probably not have driven on from Nordlingen the extra 12km to visit Harburg. Thanks!
If it hadn't been for tips I got from this board, I'd probably not have driven on from Nordlingen the extra 12km to visit Harburg. Thanks!
Sep 14th, 2004, 10:23 AM
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Don't get me wrong about Rothenburg--It is very, very well done. Just not our cup of tea as a place to actually stay for a night or two. We have friends (including German friends) who love the place and frequently go. Again, that's why they make so many different color neckties.
Oct 23rd, 2004, 09:57 AM
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We will be in Germany for 4 days (Feb 11-14) and we plan to spend the first three nights in Rothenburg and the last night in Wurzburg (so as to be close to Frankfurt to catch our 2pm flight the next day). This is my first time planning a trip entirely on my own (it is a surprise for my husband for our first married Valentine's Day together and his birthday). This is my itinerary so far...
Day One (F): Arrive 7:10 am at FRA and take a train to Rothenburg. See the Medieval Criminology Museum and the Christmas Shops and just explore the town in general.
Day Two (Sat): rent a car and explore a few close towns that are also on the Romantic Road (Dinklesbuhl and ???)
Day Three (Sun): drive somewhere(??) to see and tour at least one castle. All I have come up with so far are Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau Castles (I remember these being about 2 hours from Rothenburg and very close to each other from a trip I made as a child).
Day Four: turn in the car and train to Wurzburg. See the Kapella, Residenz, and Festung and enjoy our last night in Germany (Valentine's Day!)
If you have any advice for the missing pieces of this itineray I would be so grateful... for instance, where we could drive near Rothenburg in addition to Dinklesbuhl and other suggestions within a 2 hour driving range for our "castle day". Also, are there any guides you recommend?
Thanks for such a wonderful trip report!!!
Jill
Day One (F): Arrive 7:10 am at FRA and take a train to Rothenburg. See the Medieval Criminology Museum and the Christmas Shops and just explore the town in general.
Day Two (Sat): rent a car and explore a few close towns that are also on the Romantic Road (Dinklesbuhl and ???)
Day Three (Sun): drive somewhere(??) to see and tour at least one castle. All I have come up with so far are Neuschwanstein and Hohenschwangau Castles (I remember these being about 2 hours from Rothenburg and very close to each other from a trip I made as a child).
Day Four: turn in the car and train to Wurzburg. See the Kapella, Residenz, and Festung and enjoy our last night in Germany (Valentine's Day!)
If you have any advice for the missing pieces of this itineray I would be so grateful... for instance, where we could drive near Rothenburg in addition to Dinklesbuhl and other suggestions within a 2 hour driving range for our "castle day". Also, are there any guides you recommend?
Thanks for such a wonderful trip report!!!
Jill
Oct 23rd, 2004, 10:53 AM
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Hi Jill:
Have you gone to this website for the Romantische Strasse?
http://www.romantischestrasse.de/sho...45&lang=uk
It'll help you select the nearby towns of your question.
I don't know of any nearby castles (Hohenschwangau is much too far) but I suggest 1000 year old Bamberg as an alternative. You'll like it.
You'll certainly not need a guide.
Have you gone to this website for the Romantische Strasse?
http://www.romantischestrasse.de/sho...45&lang=uk
It'll help you select the nearby towns of your question.
I don't know of any nearby castles (Hohenschwangau is much too far) but I suggest 1000 year old Bamberg as an alternative. You'll like it.
You'll certainly not need a guide.
Oct 23rd, 2004, 09:31 PM
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If you drive straight through, Rothenburg to Hohenschwangau, where Neuschwanstein castle is located, is a 2-1/4 to 2-3/4 hour drive depending on how fast a driver you are. Of course, that's with no stops and no unusual traffic situations, and using the Autobahn most of the way.
Colmberg castle is just east of Rothenburg, but it's been converted to a very nice hotel and restaurant. Looks good on the hill, but it's authentic 21st century comfort inside.
Bamberg is a good suggestion, and it has a castle just outside of town--not sure the castle is open in February; There are other castles in the 2 hour driving range, but not sure which, if any, would be open in February. Many castles close for the winter.
Colmberg castle is just east of Rothenburg, but it's been converted to a very nice hotel and restaurant. Looks good on the hill, but it's authentic 21st century comfort inside.
Bamberg is a good suggestion, and it has a castle just outside of town--not sure the castle is open in February; There are other castles in the 2 hour driving range, but not sure which, if any, would be open in February. Many castles close for the winter.
