Order/Method of Travel
Oct 10th, 2015, 11:32 PM
#1
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Order/Method of Travel
Hello everyone,
I plan to travel to Europe sometime next year. I'd like to travel near the end of April/beginning of May. No return date needs to be solidified yet.
These are the cities I'd like to go to:
Edinburgh
Amsterdam
Madrid
Toledo
Cordoba
Seville
Granada
Venice
Milan
Krakow
Vienna
Budapest
Athens
Istanbul
I now need to plan the best order for the cities. I need to take into account both the most efficient order and weather (I really, really want to avoid the hottest temperatures in Spain). I also need to figure out what is the best way to travel between each city (Train vs. Plane). I'd love to put in some overnight trains if those are possible anywhere.
Also as a secondary question, would y'all be able to classify the cities into 3 categories:
5+ Days
3-4 Days
2 or less Days
In terms of seeing the major cultural sites (no nightlife).
Thanks Everyone!
I plan to travel to Europe sometime next year. I'd like to travel near the end of April/beginning of May. No return date needs to be solidified yet.
These are the cities I'd like to go to:
Edinburgh
Amsterdam
Madrid
Toledo
Cordoba
Seville
Granada
Venice
Milan
Krakow
Vienna
Budapest
Athens
Istanbul
I now need to plan the best order for the cities. I need to take into account both the most efficient order and weather (I really, really want to avoid the hottest temperatures in Spain). I also need to figure out what is the best way to travel between each city (Train vs. Plane). I'd love to put in some overnight trains if those are possible anywhere.
Also as a secondary question, would y'all be able to classify the cities into 3 categories:
5+ Days
3-4 Days
2 or less Days
In terms of seeing the major cultural sites (no nightlife).
Thanks Everyone!
Oct 11th, 2015, 02:41 AM
#2
You've listed 14 cities in 9 countries. How long do you have for this trip? I'm assuming that this is a starter list and you'll remove places as you go along? To do your list as you've presented it, you'd need at least 6 weeks, PLUS all the time to add on for switching cities and countries.
Admittedly, a couple of them can be done as day trips from one place, but you need to clarify the time you have to attempt this.
Admittedly, a couple of them can be done as day trips from one place, but you need to clarify the time you have to attempt this.
Oct 11th, 2015, 03:04 AM
#3
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get yourself a map or look at Michelin.com and visualize where they are.
Then, again on michelin.com arrange an itinerary, it will be constructed as you enter the cities in the order you defined yourself.
You'll be able to visualize how much driving time between the cities (and the nr of kms or miles).
It will allow you to make an intelligent circuit, useful for planning a trip by car or train.
You can also 'escape' from this set itinerary by taking flights. some are real cheap.
look on kayak.com for flighs.
Then, again on michelin.com arrange an itinerary, it will be constructed as you enter the cities in the order you defined yourself.
You'll be able to visualize how much driving time between the cities (and the nr of kms or miles).
It will allow you to make an intelligent circuit, useful for planning a trip by car or train.
You can also 'escape' from this set itinerary by taking flights. some are real cheap.
look on kayak.com for flighs.
Oct 11th, 2015, 03:38 AM
#4
Hi Sadclown,
Many if not all of the places that you list are well worth seeing, but Europe is not all cities. if you have long enough for a trip to all these cities, I would suggest factoring in some time in the countryside - biking, walking, whatever.
Also think about grouping places together:
if you want to put Spain at the beginning to avoid high temps, you could fly into Madrid, see Toledo, then see Andalucia, and fly from Malaga to Budapest/ Vienna/Krakow [whichever works best, ending in Athens and/or Istanbul [both likely to be hot] or Edinburgh [likely to be cooler].
Milan and Amsterdam strike me as the outliers [and does Edinburgh, but it would make a nice contrast to the others] so I would be inclined to lose them.
one important consideration is what you best airports are for arriving and leaving Europe. You need to research which airports will work best for you, both for timings and connections.
Many if not all of the places that you list are well worth seeing, but Europe is not all cities. if you have long enough for a trip to all these cities, I would suggest factoring in some time in the countryside - biking, walking, whatever.
Also think about grouping places together:
if you want to put Spain at the beginning to avoid high temps, you could fly into Madrid, see Toledo, then see Andalucia, and fly from Malaga to Budapest/ Vienna/Krakow [whichever works best, ending in Athens and/or Istanbul [both likely to be hot] or Edinburgh [likely to be cooler].
Milan and Amsterdam strike me as the outliers [and does Edinburgh, but it would make a nice contrast to the others] so I would be inclined to lose them.
one important consideration is what you best airports are for arriving and leaving Europe. You need to research which airports will work best for you, both for timings and connections.
Oct 11th, 2015, 04:13 AM
#5
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You will get better replies if you give us a couple key pieces of information. How long total do you have for the trip? Where are you coming from (US vs Australia vs Asia makes a difference in the logical order you do things in). Do you want to see the other things in each city's vicinity - eg any islands while in Greece, that kind of thing.
If you are starting in the US there are two tactics. Have your starting point Madrid and ending point either Edinburgh or Amsterdam and go to the others in between. That's because flights are cheaper/shorter from the US to those cities. The other tactic is to fly to the furthest (Istanbul if starting in the US) and work your way back. Fly home from Edinburgh or Amsterdam.
The five places in Spain you'd travel between via train or bus. Malaga is the other airport besides Madrid you could fly in/out of.
In Italy between Milan and Venice you'd train. You could either train or fly from there to Vienna, train to Budapest. You can train to Krakow but it's slow.
Between all the others you probably want to fly. Try easyjet and ryanair to see which cities/areas you can combine easily. Sometimes (other than the ones that are so close together you'd take the train) it will be easier to fly between cities that are not necessarily close just because that's the routes those airlines fly. Also know that sometimes they use airports that are not the 'main' airport. For example ryan air uses Torino and Bergamo for Milan - neither of which IS Milan, but both of which are less than an hour train ride from Milan so almost as easy as either MXP or LIN. It takes a while researching their routes but you can really fly between all these places.
All the places in Spain could be done in on average 2-3 days (each, so total of 2 weeks for Spain). Athens highlights can be seen in 2-3 days but you could easily spend longer and I would add in at least one island so then almost a week minimum for Greece. Same for Istanbul. I spent 8 days there and could have used more but lots of people are happy with half that but then add in somewhere else in Turkey. All the others really 'need' four days.
I'd want seven weeks for this trip and even that would not be including most of the really good day/side trips available from each destination.
If you are starting in the US there are two tactics. Have your starting point Madrid and ending point either Edinburgh or Amsterdam and go to the others in between. That's because flights are cheaper/shorter from the US to those cities. The other tactic is to fly to the furthest (Istanbul if starting in the US) and work your way back. Fly home from Edinburgh or Amsterdam.
The five places in Spain you'd travel between via train or bus. Malaga is the other airport besides Madrid you could fly in/out of.
In Italy between Milan and Venice you'd train. You could either train or fly from there to Vienna, train to Budapest. You can train to Krakow but it's slow.
Between all the others you probably want to fly. Try easyjet and ryanair to see which cities/areas you can combine easily. Sometimes (other than the ones that are so close together you'd take the train) it will be easier to fly between cities that are not necessarily close just because that's the routes those airlines fly. Also know that sometimes they use airports that are not the 'main' airport. For example ryan air uses Torino and Bergamo for Milan - neither of which IS Milan, but both of which are less than an hour train ride from Milan so almost as easy as either MXP or LIN. It takes a while researching their routes but you can really fly between all these places.
All the places in Spain could be done in on average 2-3 days (each, so total of 2 weeks for Spain). Athens highlights can be seen in 2-3 days but you could easily spend longer and I would add in at least one island so then almost a week minimum for Greece. Same for Istanbul. I spent 8 days there and could have used more but lots of people are happy with half that but then add in somewhere else in Turkey. All the others really 'need' four days.
I'd want seven weeks for this trip and even that would not be including most of the really good day/side trips available from each destination.
Oct 11th, 2015, 05:04 AM
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Overall what makes the most sense is to start in the south of Spain (April can easily be in the 80s then and it's beach weather) and head north from there. Yo should also start to group things by area. For instance IMHO you need at least 10 days for Andalusia - Seville, Cordoba, Granada and any time at the beach or in the White Towns.
You need to use the map and travel info (you can get all of the train schedules at bahn.de) to lay out the rest of your trip - and then see how it fits with your timing. (It looks tome like 7 or 8 weeks for your list of places).
Remember that it takes 2 nights to make one full days of sightseeing:
Edinburgh
Seville (3-4 days)
Cordoba (2 days)
Granada (2 days)
Madrid (4 days including 1 in Toledo) - all by train or car
Venice (3-4 days) fly from Spain
Milan (1-2 days) - and why not Rome (?)
Vienna (3-4 days) and you should add Prague here for 3-4 days)
Budapest (3-4)
Krakow (3-4) - fly to
Amsterdam (3-4) fly to
Edinburgh (3-4) fly to
Athens (2-3) but no islands?
Istanbul (3-4)
Also you need to include time to get from one city to another - that should not come out of the time IN the cities -so at least 8 or 9 days for that.
Plus agree that you are not spending much/any time in the country and day trips would also add days - as would Greek Isles, etc
This will be an expensive and time consuming trip and if it were me - unless I had unlimited time and money - I would cut it into several trips.
You need to use the map and travel info (you can get all of the train schedules at bahn.de) to lay out the rest of your trip - and then see how it fits with your timing. (It looks tome like 7 or 8 weeks for your list of places).
Remember that it takes 2 nights to make one full days of sightseeing:
Edinburgh
Seville (3-4 days)
Cordoba (2 days)
Granada (2 days)
Madrid (4 days including 1 in Toledo) - all by train or car
Venice (3-4 days) fly from Spain
Milan (1-2 days) - and why not Rome (?)
Vienna (3-4 days) and you should add Prague here for 3-4 days)
Budapest (3-4)
Krakow (3-4) - fly to
Amsterdam (3-4) fly to
Edinburgh (3-4) fly to
Athens (2-3) but no islands?
Istanbul (3-4)
Also you need to include time to get from one city to another - that should not come out of the time IN the cities -so at least 8 or 9 days for that.
Plus agree that you are not spending much/any time in the country and day trips would also add days - as would Greek Isles, etc
This will be an expensive and time consuming trip and if it were me - unless I had unlimited time and money - I would cut it into several trips.
Oct 11th, 2015, 07:47 AM
#9
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Sorry for not providing more information. Budget is not a consideration, I have more than enough to see all of the cities. And if 8 weeks is a reasonable amount of time to see all the cities, that's definitely doable.
I've seen a few other cities so I didn't included them on the list: London, Paris, Prague, Rome, Florence, and Barcelona.
I would definitely be open to including some other must see day trips - a lot of people suggest the Greek Isles.
Some more background on me: I don't really like country views, or relaxation, or driving. I like seeing museums and major attractions. So a typical tourist I guess. And I'm very young (under 25) so I don't mind things like early flights, overnight trains, etc.
I would be flying in from the East Coast, US.
From everyone's advice so far, I think I'd like to start in Spain. One other consideration I forgot to mention is that I'd like to see the tulips in Amsterdam as well.
I've seen a few other cities so I didn't included them on the list: London, Paris, Prague, Rome, Florence, and Barcelona.
I would definitely be open to including some other must see day trips - a lot of people suggest the Greek Isles.
Some more background on me: I don't really like country views, or relaxation, or driving. I like seeing museums and major attractions. So a typical tourist I guess. And I'm very young (under 25) so I don't mind things like early flights, overnight trains, etc.
I would be flying in from the East Coast, US.
From everyone's advice so far, I think I'd like to start in Spain. One other consideration I forgot to mention is that I'd like to see the tulips in Amsterdam as well.
Oct 11th, 2015, 07:55 AM
#10
From everyone's advice so far, I think I'd like to start in Spain. One other consideration I forgot to mention is that I'd like to see the tulips in Amsterdam as well.>>
mmm - to get the best chance of enjoying the best show of tulips, you'd be better off flying into Amsterdam and then going to Spain - if you are starting at the end of April and spend 10-14 days there, the tulips may be over by the time you get to Amsterdam.
mmm - to get the best chance of enjoying the best show of tulips, you'd be better off flying into Amsterdam and then going to Spain - if you are starting at the end of April and spend 10-14 days there, the tulips may be over by the time you get to Amsterdam.
Oct 11th, 2015, 07:56 AM
#11
if you are going to be there anyway, I'd suggest a week or so for exploring, not just Amsterdam, but Utrecht, Den Haag etc - loads to see and do here that would appeal to an under 25 year old.
then Spain - and again, if you have so much time at your disposal, you might like to add Barcelona into the mix - perhaps at the end - as it is the sort of place that appeals to the young.
then Spain - and again, if you have so much time at your disposal, you might like to add Barcelona into the mix - perhaps at the end - as it is the sort of place that appeals to the young.
Oct 11th, 2015, 08:10 AM
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Do Ultrecht and Den Haag have a lot of things to do in terms of famous museums or tourist attractions? Den Haag's Mauritshuis seems cool.
Some more background: I don't like nightlife at all. So no clubs or anything of that sort.
Some more background: I don't like nightlife at all. So no clubs or anything of that sort.
Oct 11th, 2015, 08:22 AM
#13
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There are several overnight train possibilities for you and at least a couple of flights will be advised to connect outlier places - forlots of general info on trains and overnight trains check these informative sites: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com - and with that much rail travel check out various railpasses.
Oct 11th, 2015, 08:29 AM
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I read in a comment by PARISWAT that Michelin.com could help in arranging the order of cities for an inquiry by Sadclown. Can anyone explain what is meant by Michelin.com and their relation with trips? Actually I have same problem in arranging cities I want to visit.
Thanks
Thanks
Oct 11th, 2015, 09:04 AM
#15
Can anyone explain what is meant by Michelin.com and their relation with trips?>>
have you clicked on michelin.com happy tweeter?
do so and you will see that it is a travel website maintained by Michelin tyres - have you heard of the Michelin Guides? [green for guides to countries and cities, red for hotels and restaurants]
anyway, the bit that you [and the OP] need is this one:
http://www.viamichelin.com/web/Routes
click on it and all will be revealed!
[though it can't actually decide on the correct order of the cities - you have to do that yourself]
<<Do Ultrecht and Den Haag have a lot of things to do in terms of famous museums or tourist attractions? Den Haag's Mauritshuis seems cool. >>
yep - that's why I suggested them.
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attract...s-Utrecht.html
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attract..._Province.html
have you clicked on michelin.com happy tweeter?
do so and you will see that it is a travel website maintained by Michelin tyres - have you heard of the Michelin Guides? [green for guides to countries and cities, red for hotels and restaurants]
anyway, the bit that you [and the OP] need is this one:
http://www.viamichelin.com/web/Routes
click on it and all will be revealed!
[though it can't actually decide on the correct order of the cities - you have to do that yourself]
<<Do Ultrecht and Den Haag have a lot of things to do in terms of famous museums or tourist attractions? Den Haag's Mauritshuis seems cool. >>
yep - that's why I suggested them.
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attract...s-Utrecht.html
http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Attract..._Province.html
Oct 11th, 2015, 09:39 AM
#16
you can actually see and enjoy tulips all over the city and especially at Emirgan park in Istanbul also :
http://tulipsinholland.com/tulip-fes...ulip-festival/
http://www.gardeningtours.com/Turkey2016.htm (I am not including this link as an advert)
http://howtoistanbul.com/en/istanbul...-festival/5911
http://tulipsinholland.com/tulip-fes...ulip-festival/
http://www.gardeningtours.com/Turkey2016.htm (I am not including this link as an advert)
http://howtoistanbul.com/en/istanbul...-festival/5911
Oct 11th, 2015, 09:47 AM
#17
the Istanbul tulip festival, of course, OC - it looks fabulous.
but when is it? I'm thinking it would be earlier in the year than the OP's planned trip.
however, A bit of research tells me I'm wrong -
http://www.wittistanbul.com/magazine...ulip-festival/
April it is then - but when is the BEST time to see them?
but when is it? I'm thinking it would be earlier in the year than the OP's planned trip.
however, A bit of research tells me I'm wrong -
http://www.wittistanbul.com/magazine...ulip-festival/
April it is then - but when is the BEST time to see them?
Oct 11th, 2015, 10:04 AM
#18
How about a map of Europe pinned to the wall? Then you can start pinpointing your cities you are considering to help visualize the best possible route and compare options.
I'm also a city person, and traveling solo that works out the easiest I think. So I understand your not wanting to drive thru the countryside, or like that.
Even with 8 weeks travel time, I personally would cross off a couple more places from that original list, to allow more time for each visit, and allow travel time between places (most are geographically not particularly close to each other).
I'm also a city person, and traveling solo that works out the easiest I think. So I understand your not wanting to drive thru the countryside, or like that.
Even with 8 weeks travel time, I personally would cross off a couple more places from that original list, to allow more time for each visit, and allow travel time between places (most are geographically not particularly close to each other).
Oct 11th, 2015, 11:56 AM
#19
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Well tulips throws a sort of wrench into the works. As you know tulips bloom fairly early spring and to be sure of seeing the best tulips in Amsterdam you would want to go there first - mid to late April - then fly to Spain to start the rest of the trip from the south before it gets too hot.
And this looks more like 9 weeks to me - when you add all of the travel days. And if you add any of the extras mentioned it would be more.
And note that the number of days given are the minimum I would do - usually would want longer for a first trip somewhere since there always seem to be a day trip that I end up doing.
And this looks more like 9 weeks to me - when you add all of the travel days. And if you add any of the extras mentioned it would be more.
And note that the number of days given are the minimum I would do - usually would want longer for a first trip somewhere since there always seem to be a day trip that I end up doing.
Oct 11th, 2015, 12:28 PM
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I am a slow traveler in general, so not the best to advice on this, but have you ever done a similar trip on that pace sadclown?
Leaving other issues such as if you can really interpret a destination by visiting only for a couple of days or if sightseen includes only a couple of major sites etc, I want to raise the exhaustion issue. I hope I do not sound as an old dinosaur, I am about 10 years older than you, but while traveling is amazing, it can be tiring too. Most of my trips last 3-4 weeks and usually focus on one country only and I travel on a very slow pace, but I often find that after 7-10 days into the trip I need to slow down and allow some relaxation time. This was the case 10 years ago too.
You do not seem to built much "cooling down" time on your sightseen days and I see no relaxation days at all.
I love sightseen and visiting museums and I am not into sunbathing all day or something like that, but I like to take my time on each location and it is not constant sightseen, still even when I was your age I would need a "day off "every now and then. Staying in bed till late morning, having a walk around, listening to some music in my room, doing some laundry, occasionaly maybe treating my self having a pedicure or have a long dinner or simply lying on my bed all day...
Maybe you are an energetic and confident traveler, but remember that travel practicalities can be demanding. I am not talking only about the actual moving among locations ( and you have a lot of that on this itinerary!) but about the effort to find out how local public transport works on each destination, get your bearings around, get accustomised to different languages and occasionaly different currencies, familiarise your self with local culture and mentality (different eating times, people more sociale or more restricted, different maners, different foods, different behaviors expected and so on)...
Every person is different of course, but I think this is something you should take into consideration...
Leaving other issues such as if you can really interpret a destination by visiting only for a couple of days or if sightseen includes only a couple of major sites etc, I want to raise the exhaustion issue. I hope I do not sound as an old dinosaur, I am about 10 years older than you, but while traveling is amazing, it can be tiring too. Most of my trips last 3-4 weeks and usually focus on one country only and I travel on a very slow pace, but I often find that after 7-10 days into the trip I need to slow down and allow some relaxation time. This was the case 10 years ago too.
You do not seem to built much "cooling down" time on your sightseen days and I see no relaxation days at all.
I love sightseen and visiting museums and I am not into sunbathing all day or something like that, but I like to take my time on each location and it is not constant sightseen, still even when I was your age I would need a "day off "every now and then. Staying in bed till late morning, having a walk around, listening to some music in my room, doing some laundry, occasionaly maybe treating my self having a pedicure or have a long dinner or simply lying on my bed all day...
Maybe you are an energetic and confident traveler, but remember that travel practicalities can be demanding. I am not talking only about the actual moving among locations ( and you have a lot of that on this itinerary!) but about the effort to find out how local public transport works on each destination, get your bearings around, get accustomised to different languages and occasionaly different currencies, familiarise your self with local culture and mentality (different eating times, people more sociale or more restricted, different maners, different foods, different behaviors expected and so on)...
Every person is different of course, but I think this is something you should take into consideration...
