janisj

As I understand it, Chip and PIN are mandatory for credit card transactions as of sometime next week. Is this so - or are chip & PIN only an option? I ask because US-issued cards don't have the imbedded chips and we still sign for purchases.

How will it work if one doesn't have a chip/PIN card?

wco81

Can't imagine they would refuse American credit cards, all the business it would represent.

Or that the American credit card companies would sit still if that were the case.

Now that they're collecting an extra percent or two for currency exchanges than they used to.

xyz123

Pin and chip cards are mandatory for UK issued cards but the terminals will recognize those cards that are not pin and chip cards and the clerk will ask for a signature...now of course some clerk in a small village in Northern Scotland may not be aware of this but I presume the terminal will tell them so.

AnthonyGA

Point-of-sale terminals generally accept both cards with chips and cards with stripes. Americans will still be able to use their old-fashioned cards by swiping them through the terminal and signing their name. Bad guys will still be able to defraud them by forging their signatures.

ben_haines_london

Happily, the layout of numbers in cash machines and at restaurants is the same across the world, so if your hand remembers the moves you need to make you will be accepted. I cannot tell you my number now, but if you put me in front of a board I can. So I never need to write the number down. If a firm sends me a new card with new PIN I take it to a normal street dispenser and change the code

[email protected]
Ben Haines, London

xyz123

Yup just another example of how America refuses to accept 21st century technology (including mobile phones, use of the outdated English measurement system in lieu of the metric system, use of the idiotic Farenheit scale instead of Celsius and now use of signature credit cards instead of pin and chip!)....but remember most of the fraud takes place over the internet where unscrupulous clerks memorize or scan cc numbers and sell them to the bad guys (usually Eastern Europeans and Nigerians are the biggest credit card thieves) and while pin and chip is certainly a bit more secure, nothing is 100% secure when vermin like that are around.

MissPrism

A friendly check-out clerk in M and S, said that they cannot over-ride a card with a chip in it, so if you are British, you have to remember your PIN. The system has been around for quite a time so most people have mastered it.
A card without a chip goes through in the old-fashioned way and the owner has to sign.
There's also a system for disabled people called Chip and Sign.

sprin2

We've found in other countries that already require these that you can't use your card at an automated machine, like the gas pump. You have to find a station with a person so you can sign.

AR

MissPrism is quite correct. You MUST use the chip and pin if your card has a chip. There will be no exceptions. People have been told to ask their bank for a non-chip card if they still wish to sign (visually imparied and elderly for instance) . I assume that this will hold for overseas visitors.
However, if my experience in France is anything to go by, you may well come up against some unmovable sales assitants!
My local store has bought a card reader that can ONLY be used for chip and pin and will not accept cards from anyone else, but overseas customers rarely go in there anyway!
The biggest problem is that many check-out and sales staff don't realise that you can still sign of you don't have a chip and pin card and so there will be refusals. Some newspapers have carried out secret surveys and have been asked to leave their goods as they refused their cards with no alternative other than cash to pay.

ira

Hi J,

The most important aspect is that you will not be able to buy gas on Sunday if you can't find a service station with an attendant.

Balenciaga

Um, Americans refuse to accept 21st-century technology???? They don't use mobiles??? You've obviously never been to the States. On my way to work every morning in Philadelphia, I watch nursery-schoolers walking to the bus stop with their camera phones, laptops, and iPods. Blimey.

janisj

OK - sounds like all will be OK. The machine will probably recognize the card is a neolithic non-chip relic and we'll be able to over charge like usual.

But like in France it is likely we won't be able to use any unattended terminals like in some petrol stations. But I guess one can always go inside to pay..

(Ben: I wasn't talking about cash machines. Most Americans do have ATM cards and PIN numbers. The issue was using credit cards to make purchases. Our cards don't have the chips and we don't use PINs for retail transactions)

janisj

Balencieaga: I think xyz's point was that our mobile phone technology is behind some other places.

Alec

Just to correct some misconceptions. British chip and pin cards can now be generally used in French chip and pin terminals, such as supermarket checkouts, even though the transaction takes a bit longer (possibly getting online authorisation from British card issuers?). You can use your cards in some automated machines such as SNCF but not, to my knowledge, at Paris Metro yet. You can use it at autoroute automated toll gates, but not at most fuel station pumps. AS these terminals get converted to work with French and international C&P systems, acceptability will get even better.
For US visitors with no C&P, they can still swipe your card and you sign. What happens is an assistant asks you to put your card in vertically at the top slot (or sometimes at the bottom), the terminal recognises it's a non-chip card and displays a message telling you to remove the card and hand it to the assistant, who will then swipe, as shown on her terminal (and sometimes with a bell). The system is the same in France and in UK. C&P is still not too widespread in other European countries, though it's growing.

xyz123

I know glanner2, it makes a lot of sense to have to memorize let's see if I remember 12 inches in a foot, 3 feet in a yard, 1760 yards (or 5280 feet) in a mile, I don't know how many ounces in a quart or a gallon, but I certainly know 1000 meters in a kilometer, 100 centimeters in a meter and to convert 3250 meters to kilometers, just move the decimal point 3 places to the left.

Why it's almost as logical, let's see if I can think of something, oh yes I got it, let's break a currency into 20 subunits and each of these subunits into 12 sub subunits so instead of something costong 3.52 it costs 3/10/6 and good luck in figuring out the change from a fiver...nah such a system couldn't possibly have existed since the value of decimalizing current began in the 18th century.

Balenciaga, ask those kids at the bus stop how they would dress if they were visiting Canada and they heard on the tely the temperature was 17 degrees and would be going to 20 that day. I suspect most of them would be looking to put on their heavy winter garments.

Incidentally, once the lack of globalization and standardization spreads to credit cards, we have situations in the US where at many of the gas terminals and others, they ask for zip codes as sort of a "security" check thinking that somebody who simply forged a card would not know the cardholder's zip code...but what about somebody from Canada? or from the UK who doesn't have a zip code. At present, they have to go inside and let the attendant do the transaction..we don't have too many unattended gasoline stations in America (at least I am not all that familiar with them) but not having a zip code might some day mean visitors to America would have difficulty gassing up their cars on a Sunday...

I think the pin and chip cards are very good and will cut down a good deal of fraud (certainly not all) and to me, it's another technology America will be a long time adopting.

willit

with reference to imperial measurement, I seem to remember the Mile was based on metric, being the distance covered in 1000 paces by a Roman legion. This always sounded sensible to me , rather than the rather arbitrary - "a metre is the distance between two marks on a platinum rod held in Paris"

The problem, I suppose, is where you try to divide up a mile into Yards "The distance between the tip of King Henry's index finger and his nose"

Having lived in countries using both systems, I have to say my simple brain far prefers meters, kilometres, grams and kilograms.

Balenciaga

What do you mean by "our?" I live in the US, but was born in England. Having lived in both countries, I can tell you that Americans have far more choices when it comes to technology. In Britain, the consumer is limited because of product availability. America is also a much bigger country, in both land and population. It takes longer for new technology to reach people in places like Iowa, Montana, and Idaho.

rex

I founf the occasional (uncommon) establishment five years ago that could not take my US-issued VISA because it lacked a chip (for the handheld credit card <i>authorisateurs</i>, it seemed).

There are the new &quot;wave-and-go&quot; MasterCard devices, here in the US, n'est-ce pas? Is that technology in use in Europe?

It's coming sooner than you think - - an IP address in every forehead, and retina scan technology on a device smaller than a playing card.

Best wishes,

Rex

xyz123

Flanner2..

Let me leave you with one other thought. Democracy is a wonderful thing but at some point, leaders are elected to make decisiions for the greater good.

I remember the first time I ever visited the UK was in 1971 a couple of months after the currency was decimalized...I had read in the papers this was a momentous day in British history (25/04/71) and that many were resisting it. So anyway I arrived in the UK in June of 1971 and there was nobody I met who wanted to go back to the old system....as a matter of fact they were wondering why it took so long.

All of EU with the exception of the UK and a couple of others 3 hyears ago went through with converting their currencies. It will never fly, people will resist it should not be forced on people I heard many scream...within 2 months it was done and while I don't want to get into the political issues of what countries have to give up to join euroland (control over their own interest rates among others) most people can see the advantages of a common currency as opposed to what once was. And yes if there were referendums in many of these places (which is what direct democracy is) most would have not wanted.

I have several pet peeves about things such as this which I understand in the scheme of things are not important. But peeves they remain. Among them are the non standardization of mobile phone technologies, why hasn't America embraced GSM more widely than it has and why do the Americans use different frequencies? (There are answers to that and in some cases it would have been costly to do so, I understand that, but sometimes youhave to bite the bullet and do what's in the best interests of everybody)..why does the US use 850 and 1900 and most of the civilized world outside North America use 900 and 1900 making tri and quad band phones necessary? And our largest mobile phone operator doesn't even use GSM so their customers are up the creek without a paddle when they try to use their mobile phones outside North America. I understand it is not important to many people but nonetheless it causes some of us problems.

Now to continue to use the ancient English system of measurements when the rest of the world has gone metric is dumb...did I ever tell the story of a person who was stopped on an autoroute in Quebec Canada doing 100 mph and when the friendly (or not so friendly) gendarme pulled him over couldn't understand what he was doing wrong as the sign said the speed limit was 100...why should the population of our country continue to be put at a disadvantage when the rest of the world had adopted a simpler system of weights and measures because a few old fashioned fuddy duddies are afraid of doing the right thing because of voter backlast? Do it and be done with it...at the end of 2 months people will be used to it and will wonder why it took so long.

The same thing is true with my other silly pet peeve which is the continuation of the $1 bill or as you guy say banknote. No other country I know of has paper money of such a low value..interestingly enough when the euro came out there was no 1 euro bank note...the US Treasury has indicated that elimination of the $1 bill would save the Treasury millions as coins last a lot longer than paper money...but they have refused to do so...you know again with the democracy argument (people don't want it)...I assure you if they came out with a nice thick coin like the &pound;1 coin as the $1 coin and told the people after a certain date $1 bills would no longer be legal tender, some people would grumble but within 2 months it would be done and forgotten that $1 bills ever existed.

The chip and pin technology is another example. Banks are losing millions on fraud and every bit they can do to make fraud more difficult is welcome..no chip and pin cards will certainly not wipe out all cc fraud but it will cut down on some instead of having people pay for the fraud with higher and higher fees. Do you think the banks actually allow themselves to lose money because of cc fraud? No, of course not, they simply pass the costs along to you and me in the form of higher fees. But what one can't lose sight of, just like requiring the use a zip code to use an automatic gasoline pump. But nobody seems to consider what visitors to the country should do.

The problem with all these things is that many forget we live in a global economy now. The US is no longer so isolated and able to do whatever it wants...get on a plane in NY and 5 hours later, for not that more than it costs to fly from NY to Florida, you are in London..do it 3 or 4 times a year as I have friends in London. Putting obstacles up for people by failing to embrace globalization on these small trivial matters is something whose time is long past at least in my humble opinion.

xyz123

typo typo...another pet peeve is how ancient this board is that doesn't allow one to edit once it has been posted (don't bother telling me about previewing I pick up typos all the time after posting)..

should say rest of the world outside North America uses 900 and 1800 in their mobile phone technology yada yada yada.