Northern Italy Itinerary Help

Old Dec 26th, 2014, 08:50 AM
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Northern Italy Itinerary Help

Hello all! My wife and I are in the planning stages of a trip to Northern Italy and we could use some advice on an itinerary. We have done Salzburg, Venice, Florence (one of our favorites in Europe), Tuscany, Rome, Bellagio in several trips and am looking for something different in Italy so we are debating touring the Emilia-Romagna or Piedmont region. I am open to any and all changes. For instance, I don’t need to stay in Verona, but heard it was beautiful and somewhat easy to reach from Munich. Also to note, we stayed in Zurich and Bern on our way to Paris a couple of years ago so that is why we decided to go to Verona vs. through Switzerland, but again, open to any comments on alternative routes and cities. We will have a car and need to start in Munich and end in Nice. For an idea of what we like to do while traveling, we enjoy architecture, food, wine, beer, guided walking tours (including food), shopping, and historical sites (not as much into museums). I hope this is enough information to start. Thanks in advance to everyone for your thoughts!
Option 1
Night 1 Munich
Night 2 Verona
Night 3 Milan
Night 4 Bologna
Night 5 Bologna
Night 6 Florence
Night 7 Florence
Night 8 Genoa
Night 9 Nice

Option 2
Night 1 Munich
Night 2 Verona
Night 3 Milan
Night 4 Milan
Night 5 Turin
Night 6 Turin
Night 7 Turin
Night 8 Nice
Night 9 Nice
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Old Dec 26th, 2014, 09:15 AM
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I don't have any problem with your proposed itins. It's a little rushed for me, but to each his own.

Some additional suggestions:

Stay at a winery in the Veneto region? We really like Alice Relais, just outside of the town of Vittorio Veneto. Nice people. Great rooms with a view of the fields. Ask for a tour of the winery.

I'm a Milan fan, so I'd go with the two nights in Milan, instead of one. If you want to see the Last Supper, be sure to book in advance.

For a short stay, I liked Vicenza better than Verona. (Again, JMHO.) Nice little town. Interesting sites.
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Old Dec 26th, 2014, 10:35 AM
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Option 1 is a lot of driving and little time to see anything. Munich to Verona is something like 5 hours 30 minutes driving and no time would be left to see Verona. Would make a little more sense staying night 3 in Verona and cancelling MIlan.
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Old Dec 26th, 2014, 10:46 AM
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Well the first problem I see is that you are driving and yet want to visit cities where driving into and parking in is a problem. By the time you drive from Munich to Verona, get to a hotel that has parking and check in - then you have to get into the historic center and you're not going to have any time to see anything. Then the next day you are going to repeat this with Milan which is even bigger and even harder (impossible) to drive into and park. Even the two night stays will barely get you one day to see anything. Looking at a map it sort of makes sense to drive from Munich to Nice via these cities but in terms of logistics it's just not good.

The second itinerary is better in that you have half the number of stops so you would have time to actually 'be' in those places, but they are still large cities and the driving/parking will be an issue.

You are going through a couple areas that driving does make sense - the Dolomites and possibly the Valle d'Aosta. I would consider skipping Milan entirely and maybe even basing in a smaller town in each of those regions and then perhaps doing a day trip into Turin and Verona. There's lots of northern Italy where a car is not only a good idea but almost essential - but the large cities you are talking about don't need a car and in fact a car is a bad idea for them.

You don't say why the start/end destinations are Munich and Nice or why you will have a car. If those things are definites then I'd consider the idea of a non city trip. If you don't have to have a car then you could train from place to place.

I'm actually planning a trip to the Dolomites and Valle d'Aosta for next summer and we are planning a driving trip. Normally I prefer to travel by train in Europe but that's one area where a car I think will be very beneficial. I've been to all of those cities you mention (except Turnin, which I plan to visit by train from Milan before getting the car) and wouldn't want a car in any of them. (And I got my driver's license in NY! - so I'm not afraid of driving in cities - I just don't do it when it doesn't make sense.)
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Old Dec 26th, 2014, 10:58 AM
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I wouldn't spend one night anywhere unless I were coming from very nearby or were just looking for a place to touch down before continuing my journey. Therefore, in your first itinerary, I'd cut out Milan altogether, especially since it's not at all on your route.

If you plot your Itinerary 1 on Google Maps, you'll see that it looks like a big letter S. By road, it would be almost 1500 km, and by train it would be considerably longer. Itinerary 2 is about 33% less time on the road, and is more linear. That would weigh heavily with me. However, I would add a night to Verona and take one from Torino, just to avoid the one-night stand in Verona.

I haven't been to Vincenza, so I can't compare it with Verona, but maybe Vincenzo has a special affinity with the city!
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Old Dec 26th, 2014, 11:19 AM
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Start over---not a good plan.
First, get your car in the same country you drop it to avoid big charges. And, in your short time I would plan a max of 3 hotels. You pick which 3, but I would try to include Torino.
If the 3 are Bologna, Torino, and Nice you do not need a car.
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Old Dec 26th, 2014, 11:56 AM
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I missed the part about a car. The car would just be an expensive nuisance on the Italian part of your trip (either itinerary). Also, I assumed you'd be spending some time in Munich before heading to Italy. If your total stay in Munich is one night, I don't see the point in going there.
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Old Dec 26th, 2014, 12:42 PM
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I think I too misunderstood or didn't read carefully about the car.
You're going to have a car for a trip that essentially consists of stays in major cities?
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Old Dec 26th, 2014, 03:21 PM
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Thanks everyone for your thoughtful ideas. I should clarify the car... We are doing a euro delivery pickup of a car and the pickup is in Munich and drop off in Nice. Driving our new car will be part of the fun! We have been to Munich many times so we will only stay one night. We usually find parking at a hotel so I am not too worried about finding parking. I understand that these are easy train cities, but we tend to like larger cities to use as a base for traveling the countryside.

Thanks again and any other advice is appreciated! We are particularly interested in Turin and surrounding area, since we have been in Florence before. We love red wine and are quite interested in trying different Barolo's. Would it be worthwhile to spend more than a few days in that area?
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Old Dec 26th, 2014, 09:03 PM
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As you've no doubt read in the guidebooks, cars of non-residents are not allowed in the centres of Italian towns and cities. You can get a hefty fine if you try it. So best to find accomodation outside the centres and bus, train, or taxi in.
However, if you really want accomodation in the city centre your hotel can arrange with the police for a special permit for a once in, once out trip into the city by the shortest route. You will still not be allowed to drive around the city. They will need the car's registration number to do this.
Be aware though that communication between hotel and police are not always efficient so call the hotel before you arrive to make sure they have the permit.
I can't see where you are from so I assume USA, in which case make sure you get your International Drivers Permit from the AAA.
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Old Dec 26th, 2014, 10:15 PM
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Like Vincenzo I am also a fan of Milan. I don't know why, but it's sadly underrated by tourists. Just a few things to see: the Cathedral and piazza, Galleria Vittorio Emanuele II, Leonardo's 'Last Supper', Castello Sforzesco, La Scala Opera House, Brera Art Gallery. That should keep you busy for a while.
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Old Dec 27th, 2014, 02:08 AM
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have I missed what time of year you're planning to do this? that might make a difference to the advice you get about routes.

anyway, presuming that's not a problem, staying in either Verona, Milan or Turin with a car is going to be a pain. if you took the alternative route via the Dolomites to Verona, you could base yourselves in one of the little towns there, and just do Verona as a day trip en route to Milan/turin [I suggest either, not both]. Then i would also suggest basing yourselves outside Milan/Turin and again seeing them as a day trip from your base, using the car to tour round the vineyards if that's what you decide to do.

finding bases with good train links to the cities you want to see would help - this is a time when a car is definitely not an asset!

Alternatively drop the idea of seeing cities on this trip and stick to the countryside where having a car will be an advantage.
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Old Dec 27th, 2014, 02:33 AM
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>> I am also a fan of Milan. I don't know why, but it's sadly underrated by tourists.>>

Someone once said, "The problem with Milan is that it's in Italy." That is, most people think first of the Big Three or one of the coastal areas as THE places to go. Put Milan in another country, and everyone would be advising people to visit the city.

I have run into numerous people who've never been there and who nonetheless are quick to say, "Oh, Milan's not worth visiting. It's just a big city."
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Old Dec 27th, 2014, 02:43 AM
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Maybe I missed it, but what time of year are you traveling? There are many times of year when your chances of getting nice weather along the Mediterranean are fairly low, and it is better to stick to inland routes. And there are other times of year when traffic jams and crowds along the coast (or in places like Florence) can really kill the fun of a road trip. And if you are traveling between now and the beginning of April, a northern Italy trip can mean loads of bad weather.

If you are going to Piemonte for the red wine, then you should probably stay in the wine country south of Alba, and right in the vicinity of Barolo (the town). However, if you are committed urbanites, then you will definitely enjoy Torino, and if you do your research, you can find the best wines in the city (although you will have a harder time finding the same rustic food).

Given the way you describe your interests, I would think you would enjoy Verona tremendously, including its lovely rich red Amarone wine. Although I am personally a fan of Bologna, I don't think a 2 night stay there would be as rewarding for you as extending your time in Verona.

Also, just so you know, there is wonderful red wine country near Trento, and Trento makes a fantastic short stop to see the piazza Duomo and also to see the Castello Buonconsiglio at the edge of town.

Yours is a trip I would do by train, but if I had a car, I guess I would drive from Munich to Trento for overnight, and from there to Verona for a few nights. Then I would drive directly to Piemonte (no Milan) and your choice as to whether it would be an urban or countryside experience. From there I would make my way to lunch stop along the coast somewhere other than Genoa in Italy to have a great Italian experience of the Riviera. Albenga is particularly interesting, but there are other atmospheric towns. Then on to Nice.

I happen to like road trips, but they are hard to combine with wine-focused trips.
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Old Dec 27th, 2014, 02:48 AM
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PS: I also happen to like Milan a great deal, but there a lots of reasons why people don't enjoy it, including the culture of the town, which isn't to everyone's liking. I don't think they would like it any better if Milan was in France.

I suggest skipping Milan for this trip simply because you have a car. But even if you were going by train, I would suggest putting your luggage in the train station and doing a walking tour and some other sightseeing, and not spending the night there. Another reason people tend not to like Milan is that you need to be more careful about choosing a hotel, and there are few bargains.
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Old Dec 27th, 2014, 03:40 AM
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>> including the culture of the town
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Old Dec 27th, 2014, 05:13 AM
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>> including the culture of the town
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Old Dec 27th, 2014, 05:21 AM
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>>Another reason people tend not to like Milan is that you need to be more careful about choosing a hotel, and there are few bargains.
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Old Dec 27th, 2014, 09:14 AM
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I think it is beyond silly to pretend that Milan doesn't have its own unique culture.

Milan has an urban culture, focused on business, more clock&appointment driven, and urban entertainments. It also has many distinctly modern aspects and a cosmopolitan air (much more so than other Italian cities its size). It has an extremely high profile in fashion, finance and post-doctoral education. I happen to enjoy that kind of international oriented urban culture, but not everybody does.

I'll stick by my statement that Milan hotels at the lower "budget" price scale tend not to be very good -- and can even be wretched -- which is by and large not true in most Italian cities. Other cities have a much wider selection of bed-and-breakfasts and apartment rentals, and often very doting management You can find an attractively priced hotel in Milan to suit one's needs, but it is harder.

Before I moved to Italy, I was talking to an Italian professional, and I asked if he felt there was anyplace I could go in Italy where, as a non-native, I wouldn't be welcome. He said to me there was an expression/joke where he came from about newcomers moving in, which is essentially "Anybody but the Milanese." Italians have all sorts of opinions about the people in the next town (true of people who are to Italian too) but I think even the denizens of Milan might be a bit out that neither have noticed just how different they are.
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Old Dec 27th, 2014, 08:40 PM
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Nobody is saying that Milan doesn't have its own unique culture. Just as Rome has, and Venice has, and Naples has (oh, indeed, Naples surely has!) and....you name it.
It's your "which isn't to everyone's liking" without further explanation that raised suspicions. Then you go on to say that you actually like it. Well, maybe the OP will like it too. As you and I do.
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