Northern Italy and Tuscany-Are we crazy?
Aug 12th, 2013, 09:42 PM
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Northern Italy and Tuscany-Are we crazy?
My husband and I have decided that we want to take a trip to Italy in September, only one month away. We would like to see the Dolomites area, Lake Como (Bellagio), maybe Asti/Alba, Cinque Terre, Lucca and Siena. We will drive. Arrival/departure airports are yet to be decided, whatever is best I guess (maybe into Milan, out of Florence). My main questions: are we going to to be able to book hotels at this late date or will they all be full? how many days would you recommend for this? We are looking to experience more of the country's natural beauty although we will throw in some churches and art here and there. Any recommendations for a route?
Aug 12th, 2013, 09:59 PM
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Three weeks.
Fly into Milan, home from Pisa. There will be other tourists, but the peak of the vacation season is over, the French and the Italians for example are back at work, you'll find rooms even at short notice. With a car you can be so flexible, I wouldn't worry.
Go to AAA and get the IDP (International Driving Permit), Italy requires it (to accompany your own DL), and learn about ZTL - zones that are limited to traffic by locals. Signs are hard to see, fines are heavy and charged to your credit card months after a camera zapped you... Basically, driving in small towns and even larger ones like Florence is not advised.
Fly into Milan, home from Pisa. There will be other tourists, but the peak of the vacation season is over, the French and the Italians for example are back at work, you'll find rooms even at short notice. With a car you can be so flexible, I wouldn't worry.
Go to AAA and get the IDP (International Driving Permit), Italy requires it (to accompany your own DL), and learn about ZTL - zones that are limited to traffic by locals. Signs are hard to see, fines are heavy and charged to your credit card months after a camera zapped you... Basically, driving in small towns and even larger ones like Florence is not advised.
Aug 13th, 2013, 12:09 AM
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I've been in the US and I've seen your way of driving, if it is the first time you come in Italy I can only suggest you to be very careful while driving, you've to put 10 times more concentration in it because here people follow they own rules, and just call the police if you have an accident with the car even a small one, they will come in more than 2 hours if there are only damages to the cars but 95% of the times, even if it's not your fault, the other driver will say it is. I'm not sure about the IDP, probably no one would care about it , just contact the car rental office of your choice and ask, I mean, if you come to Milano Malpensa or Milano Linate, find the phone number of the office there and call directly, there is a standard but you may find someone at the desk that doesn't know it and just lose a lot of time.
About moving in the cities... I suggest to stay in the "tourist zone" in cities like Milano, Roma and Napoli and maybe to avoid to be targeted as an American Tourist (tm) . No basketball cap fot the men, no flip flops for the women. It could be a good move to know exactly where to go and when, and the price for it, everything id on the internet . If you want to see the Cenacolo in Milan, you've to book weeks before, as far as I'm concerned is the only place where you've to book in Milan.
In Milan the car is useless, you can't use it in the center and if I'm not wrong, all the big cities are like this, there is a combined network of trains and metro underground, they are called metro and "passante ferroviario" (ordinary trains running underground). Avoid trolley bus line 90 and 91 the central station, if you stay more than one day I suggest you to go to the Duomo metro station and find the "duomo point" underground, take an electronic card for free and charge in in place , maybe a carnet, so you don't have to buy tickets every time and be surrounded by gipsies and people offering you to change you bucks with a big smile in their faces. I don't know about the other cities but I thin it's like that, maybe less organized that in Milan, in any case, using the car int he cities is not a good idea, in Italy and generally in Europe, they don't use the car even when they have to go to the toilet so it's not a good idea. Remember to try a "Panzerotto" da Luini in Milan, its near the Duomo. Bellagio is a target, in the area there are just a lot of lakes, I can suggest to visit Sirmione on the lake Garda, personally I took the best ice cream ever there. You can use the GSM phone and i suggest you to contact you telephone company and be sure to have datas activated, google maps and the rest. In the hotel you may fin a strange gizmo called "bidet", ask for the users manual at the reception. Good luck
About moving in the cities... I suggest to stay in the "tourist zone" in cities like Milano, Roma and Napoli and maybe to avoid to be targeted as an American Tourist (tm) . No basketball cap fot the men, no flip flops for the women. It could be a good move to know exactly where to go and when, and the price for it, everything id on the internet . If you want to see the Cenacolo in Milan, you've to book weeks before, as far as I'm concerned is the only place where you've to book in Milan.
In Milan the car is useless, you can't use it in the center and if I'm not wrong, all the big cities are like this, there is a combined network of trains and metro underground, they are called metro and "passante ferroviario" (ordinary trains running underground). Avoid trolley bus line 90 and 91 the central station, if you stay more than one day I suggest you to go to the Duomo metro station and find the "duomo point" underground, take an electronic card for free and charge in in place , maybe a carnet, so you don't have to buy tickets every time and be surrounded by gipsies and people offering you to change you bucks with a big smile in their faces. I don't know about the other cities but I thin it's like that, maybe less organized that in Milan, in any case, using the car int he cities is not a good idea, in Italy and generally in Europe, they don't use the car even when they have to go to the toilet so it's not a good idea. Remember to try a "Panzerotto" da Luini in Milan, its near the Duomo. Bellagio is a target, in the area there are just a lot of lakes, I can suggest to visit Sirmione on the lake Garda, personally I took the best ice cream ever there. You can use the GSM phone and i suggest you to contact you telephone company and be sure to have datas activated, google maps and the rest. In the hotel you may fin a strange gizmo called "bidet", ask for the users manual at the reception. Good luck
Aug 13th, 2013, 12:56 AM
#5
Good advice above
A car in most city centres is a nightmare. Italians drive like Europeans with added can I get into the back seat of your car please?
so check out on google where the car parks nearest your hotel are. So for example in Lucca they are all outside the walls.
In the bathroom you will find a bidet (italian law) and a pull string for emergencies (do not assume this turns the fan on) it brings someone up from reception.
Sept is conference season in some areas hotels will be full and others less so in smaller towns, If I wanted to do what you were doing I'd book Milan and Florence and any weekend stays (Fri and Sat night) as locals will still be going out for weekends
A car in most city centres is a nightmare. Italians drive like Europeans with added can I get into the back seat of your car please?
so check out on google where the car parks nearest your hotel are. So for example in Lucca they are all outside the walls.In the bathroom you will find a bidet (italian law) and a pull string for emergencies (do not assume this turns the fan on) it brings someone up from reception.
Sept is conference season in some areas hotels will be full and others less so in smaller towns, If I wanted to do what you were doing I'd book Milan and Florence and any weekend stays (Fri and Sat night) as locals will still be going out for weekends
Aug 13th, 2013, 05:23 AM
#7
>>>I'm not sure about the IDP, probably no one would care about it , just contact the car rental office of your choice and ask,<<<
The IDP is required by Italian law. It doesn't matter what the car rental company thinks or says. I've had car rental companies ask for it when picking up the car, but some don't.
The IDP is required by Italian law. It doesn't matter what the car rental company thinks or says. I've had car rental companies ask for it when picking up the car, but some don't.
Aug 13th, 2013, 05:52 AM
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What a nice trip---can I tag along?
You are late, but it can be done if you get hopping ASAP. I see two ways to plan the loop, but I would do it clockwise and start and end in MIlan[MXP]. You will need at least 15 nites in Italy, and 17 would be better. Here is my suggested sequence:
Land MXP---get car---to Lago Como[Menaggio or Lenno]3
Drive to Dolomites---Val Gardena--3
Drive to Siena area---4---see Tuscan hill towns
Drive to Lucca---3
Drive to CT--stay in Portovenere--2
Drive to Alba---see Piemonte wineries--2
Last nite near MXP
I have stayed in each of these destinations, some multiple times, and love this type of itinerary. You will have fun !
You are late, but it can be done if you get hopping ASAP. I see two ways to plan the loop, but I would do it clockwise and start and end in MIlan[MXP]. You will need at least 15 nites in Italy, and 17 would be better. Here is my suggested sequence:
Land MXP---get car---to Lago Como[Menaggio or Lenno]3
Drive to Dolomites---Val Gardena--3
Drive to Siena area---4---see Tuscan hill towns
Drive to Lucca---3
Drive to CT--stay in Portovenere--2
Drive to Alba---see Piemonte wineries--2
Last nite near MXP
I have stayed in each of these destinations, some multiple times, and love this type of itinerary. You will have fun !
Aug 13th, 2013, 11:01 AM
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This may also prove helpful---see last part:
DRIVING IN ITALY & SOUTHERN EUROPE
Q. SHOULD WE DRIVE IN ITALY?
A. Of course you should if your driving skill & confidence would allow you to drive a rental car in Vermont, Colorado or California. But, be advised of these tips:
* Avoid driving in the major cities except for picking up or dropping cars
* Have good maps—study them in advance—and have a GOOD NAVIGATOR.
* Stay in the right lane except when passing and use your rear view mirrors
Q. WHAT CAR SHOULD I GET AND WHERE DO I GET IT?
A. It is best to rent your car before you leave for Europe. The best source we have found is www.autoeurope.com [800-223-5555] who is a broker for several car vendors. They will quote you prices to include the variables that are often omitted by others, such as unlimited mileage, mandatory insurance coverage with some deductibles, and VAT taxes. It is wise to compare prices and coverage with their sister company at www.kemwel.com. Autoeurope will match any comparable quote, and are famous for their customer satisfaction if problems do arise with the vendor. The best model will depend on your needs, but for best value we suggest you select a compact car with manual transmission. Automatics are available but will cost you about 30% more and may limit your model options & pick up locations.
Q. ARE ITALIAN DRIVERS AS CRAZY AS I HAVE HEARD?
A. Yes & no! They are certainly aggressive, but they are also more skilled than many USA drivers—both are a function of necessity. Italy is one of the most crowded countries in the world and the drivers have evolved these characteristics
* They are notorious tailgaters. If that bothers you, pull over and let them past.
* On the AUTOSTRADE they will drive fast, but will stay in the right lane except when passing and will use their blinkers when passing—YOU SHOULD TOO !
* They will often pass on 2-lane roads with traffic coming. Frankly, they expect you, and the oncoming car, to adjust to the shoulder and make 3 lanes of traffic.
OTHER ROAD TIPS FOR YOUR DRIVING SANITY:
1. Learn the meaning of the sign “ SENSO UNICO” and take heed [ONE WAY ].
2. Be sure to get your ticket when you enter the AUTOSTADA system & be prepared to pay the toll when you exit it [ rule of thumb—300 km=15 Euro]. You can use your credit card in the VIA lane at the toll both, or buy a debit VIACARD in advance.
3. Do NOT attempt to follow road numbers—that will frustrate you. But, do pay attention to the directional signs that point to your destination [ TO MONTALCINO]. And, be aware if that road leads eventually to a larger city [ ROMA—SIENA ETC.]
4. Unless you have a diesel car, you will want to fill the tank with benzina from the green pump. Most stations will pump gas for you and will take credit cards.
NOTE: As of 2005, an International Drivers Permit[IDP] is required in Italy.
You can obtain them from your local AAA office. You will need a valid US driver’s license, two passport photos, and $15. The photos can be taken at the AAA office.
DRIVING IN ITALY & SOUTHERN EUROPE
Q. SHOULD WE DRIVE IN ITALY?
A. Of course you should if your driving skill & confidence would allow you to drive a rental car in Vermont, Colorado or California. But, be advised of these tips:
* Avoid driving in the major cities except for picking up or dropping cars
* Have good maps—study them in advance—and have a GOOD NAVIGATOR.
* Stay in the right lane except when passing and use your rear view mirrors
Q. WHAT CAR SHOULD I GET AND WHERE DO I GET IT?
A. It is best to rent your car before you leave for Europe. The best source we have found is www.autoeurope.com [800-223-5555] who is a broker for several car vendors. They will quote you prices to include the variables that are often omitted by others, such as unlimited mileage, mandatory insurance coverage with some deductibles, and VAT taxes. It is wise to compare prices and coverage with their sister company at www.kemwel.com. Autoeurope will match any comparable quote, and are famous for their customer satisfaction if problems do arise with the vendor. The best model will depend on your needs, but for best value we suggest you select a compact car with manual transmission. Automatics are available but will cost you about 30% more and may limit your model options & pick up locations.
Q. ARE ITALIAN DRIVERS AS CRAZY AS I HAVE HEARD?
A. Yes & no! They are certainly aggressive, but they are also more skilled than many USA drivers—both are a function of necessity. Italy is one of the most crowded countries in the world and the drivers have evolved these characteristics
* They are notorious tailgaters. If that bothers you, pull over and let them past.
* On the AUTOSTRADE they will drive fast, but will stay in the right lane except when passing and will use their blinkers when passing—YOU SHOULD TOO !
* They will often pass on 2-lane roads with traffic coming. Frankly, they expect you, and the oncoming car, to adjust to the shoulder and make 3 lanes of traffic.
OTHER ROAD TIPS FOR YOUR DRIVING SANITY:
1. Learn the meaning of the sign “ SENSO UNICO” and take heed [ONE WAY ].
2. Be sure to get your ticket when you enter the AUTOSTADA system & be prepared to pay the toll when you exit it [ rule of thumb—300 km=15 Euro]. You can use your credit card in the VIA lane at the toll both, or buy a debit VIACARD in advance.
3. Do NOT attempt to follow road numbers—that will frustrate you. But, do pay attention to the directional signs that point to your destination [ TO MONTALCINO]. And, be aware if that road leads eventually to a larger city [ ROMA—SIENA ETC.]
4. Unless you have a diesel car, you will want to fill the tank with benzina from the green pump. Most stations will pump gas for you and will take credit cards.
NOTE: As of 2005, an International Drivers Permit[IDP] is required in Italy.
You can obtain them from your local AAA office. You will need a valid US driver’s license, two passport photos, and $15. The photos can be taken at the AAA office.
Aug 13th, 2013, 07:23 PM
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(Sigh of relief) Ok, I will get going on the planning. I didn't want to get started and then be disappointed that it wouldn't work out on such short notice.
Thank you all for the driving advice. We have driven in Switzerland, Spain and Germany before but not Italy. Because I love to walk and am comfortable with public transporation, I was assuming we wouldn't use the car in Lucca and Siena. But I wasn't really thinking about where the car would be while we are there. Clearly I need to think about it. While the story of our car getting towed in Barcelona on the morning we were supposed to fly out is funny now, I don't want to relive it. And we are familiar with the IDP.
Bobthenavigator, I was originally thinking that we would end in Siena because I'm worried about the weather in the north. I'm not sure if a week makes a difference--I know it does in Chicago! Do you think there is a route to do this? Or would I be backtracking too much? And in your itinerary, is there room for stopping along the way? I am a spontaneous person (obviously not one for planning far in advance) and like to dally if something catches my attention. You said two ways to plan the loop? I also browsed your 09 trip report and will definitely look into the hotels, etc. you mentioned.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Thank you all for the driving advice. We have driven in Switzerland, Spain and Germany before but not Italy. Because I love to walk and am comfortable with public transporation, I was assuming we wouldn't use the car in Lucca and Siena. But I wasn't really thinking about where the car would be while we are there. Clearly I need to think about it. While the story of our car getting towed in Barcelona on the morning we were supposed to fly out is funny now, I don't want to relive it. And we are familiar with the IDP.
Bobthenavigator, I was originally thinking that we would end in Siena because I'm worried about the weather in the north. I'm not sure if a week makes a difference--I know it does in Chicago! Do you think there is a route to do this? Or would I be backtracking too much? And in your itinerary, is there room for stopping along the way? I am a spontaneous person (obviously not one for planning far in advance) and like to dally if something catches my attention. You said two ways to plan the loop? I also browsed your 09 trip report and will definitely look into the hotels, etc. you mentioned.
Thanks in advance for your advice.
Aug 13th, 2013, 07:48 PM
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Oh, Bob, that reminds me, what are the roads like? Are we talking like US expressways (2+ lanes each way) or more like 2-lane roads (1 each direction)?
I'm visualizing driving on something like country backroads, but then maybe I'm not being realistic? Will we really be driving on expressways? I just want it to be scenic and easy to see if we want to stop off somewhere.
I'm visualizing driving on something like country backroads, but then maybe I'm not being realistic? Will we really be driving on expressways? I just want it to be scenic and easy to see if we want to stop off somewhere.
Aug 13th, 2013, 08:15 PM
#12
Part of it may be on country backroads (around Siena) or some of the other smaller towns, but you wouldn't want to take backroads getting from Como to Tuscany. You would likely take the autostrada or it would take too much time otherwise.
If you can, fly home from Pisa or Florence to avoid backtracking.
If you can, fly home from Pisa or Florence to avoid backtracking.
Aug 14th, 2013, 08:07 AM
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I put Lago Como and the Dolomites up front for that reason---weather---those are your critical destinations.
The roads are just fine---Autostrada for 90% of your itinerary. And, no reason not to have a car in Lucca[ parking lots surround the town,or in Siena. I would stay outside Siena anyway---give me your budget for hotels.
The roads are just fine---Autostrada for 90% of your itinerary. And, no reason not to have a car in Lucca[ parking lots surround the town,or in Siena. I would stay outside Siena anyway---give me your budget for hotels.
Aug 14th, 2013, 09:50 AM
#14
I'd stay outside Siena as well and just pop in for the day (car park at the hill base, take the multiple escalators to the town, eat, see the wedding cake cathedral and stumble home) loads of little towns nearby to stay in at good prices
Aug 15th, 2013, 07:13 PM
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So you don't think weather will be a problem in Cinque Terre in late Sept/early Oct? Based on the advice here, I'm not going to worry too much about the car. What are these towns near Siena? How far away are they? Unfortunately, I haven't had time to do any more research because I'm traveling now in NC.
As far as budget, I don't really have one, but I'm only willing to pay what I think a place is worth. Meaning, I will pay more if the place has sufficient charm, service, amenities, location, etc, but I refuse to pay a lot for a mediocre hotel. Of course, my comfort is key. I tend to like smaller inns/B & B places but also sometimes splurge for a 5* hotel. Having said all that, I probably don't want to pay more than $250/nt, and would prefer to keep it in the $180-$200 range.
As far as budget, I don't really have one, but I'm only willing to pay what I think a place is worth. Meaning, I will pay more if the place has sufficient charm, service, amenities, location, etc, but I refuse to pay a lot for a mediocre hotel. Of course, my comfort is key. I tend to like smaller inns/B & B places but also sometimes splurge for a 5* hotel. Having said all that, I probably don't want to pay more than $250/nt, and would prefer to keep it in the $180-$200 range.
Aug 15th, 2013, 07:36 PM
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If you decide to base in Siena (not a bad idea since there is SO much to see and do there if the weather is uncooperative), Hotel Santa Caterina is in your price range. It's lovely, has parking, and is an easy walk right into the historic center. It is very popular though, so I'd contact them ASAP. From their location, it would be very easily to day trip to some of the surrounding hill towns. I'd concentrate on the Val d'Orcia area. Bobthenavigator is an expert in this area (well, in most areas, but especially here!) and can hopefully provide better advice, but I'd try to see Montepulciano and San Quirico d'Orcia, and also perhaps Pienza. If you're a Brunello fan, Montalcino could be added.
Aug 15th, 2013, 10:35 PM
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Stay at least 2 nights in Milan, climb the roof of the Duomo, take a walking tour that includes entry to The Last Supper, have a look at La Scala including the museum, check out The Galleria, a nice 1st or last city in italy
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