Renaud

We plan two weeks in Paris with friends, but will arrive 6 days earlier and stay 7 days after their departure and are trying to decided on our itinerary. Which deserves more time; Normandy or the Loire valley? The time differential is not much, but we are leaning towards a couple of extra days in Normandy, the our Paris stay, followed by a shorter visit to the chateau of the Loire.

What is the collective wisdom of those with greater travel experience? What high lights are recommended. What are the must see attractions. We are interested in HISTORY, culture, scenic beauty, and good food and drink. All suggestions are appreciated.

nytraveler

Depends on your interests.

The chateaux of the Loire are often fascinating - esp the son et lumieres. We spent 6 nights there and there was still a lot more we wanted to see. We did 8 chateaux and spent one day at Fontrevaud Abby and visiting a couple of wineries. But that mght be too much for some people.

Normandy there is a broader range of things to see and do - esp if you include Mont St Michel and are interested in WWII.

StuDudley

We spent 2 weeks in the Loire are (east of Chinon) this year. And one week west of Chinon about 4 years ago. Prior to that time, we've spent about 3 weeks in various locations visiting the Loire area (chateau area - there is a Loire department that is nowhere near the chateaux).

We've spent about 3 weeks in Normandy and 6 weeks in Brittany.

IMO, the countryside in Normandy & Brittany is much more scenic than in the Loire. The major cities in Normandy & Brittany (Rouen, Rennes, Vannes, Quimper) are much more interesting that any cities in the Loire (Tours is at the "bottom" of my "interesting cities" list). There are more "cute little villages" in Normandy & Brittany than in the Loire (Chinon was the only small village that is in our "top 50%")

We visited about 15 chateaux in the Loire while we were there this year. We love Chateaux.

There are many chateaux in Brittany & Normandy too. Rennes is a major "hub" for getting to/from Paris - and even CDG.

If this was my trip, I would spent it in Normandy & Brittany.

I developed an itinerary for Normandy & Brittany that describes our favorite villages, cities, gardens, sites, markets, restaurants, scenic drives, etc. I've sent my various France itineraries to over 5,000 people on Fodors. If you would like a copy, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll attach a copy to the reply e-mail.

Stu Dudley

kja

It really depends on YOUR interests. I preferred Normandy; others prefer the Loire.... I recommend that you get some good guidebooks (or spend some time with a few in your local library), to see what most captures your interest. I strongly recommend the Rough Guide or Lonely Planet as your primary resource. I would also recommend that you consult Fodor's, Frommer's, or the Michelin Green Guides to help prioritize and the National Geographic Traveler, Insight Guides, or Eyewitness for inspiration. Enjoy!

annhig

I'm not following your itinerary. initially you say that you have 6 days before your friends arrive and 7 days afterwards - in which case you could easily spend the initial 6 days seeing Normandy and the last 7 seeing the Loire.

Then you say that you are leaning towards 2 extra days in Normandy, followed by a shorter visit to the Loire. does that mean that you would go back to Normandy after Paris, and work your way round to the Loire after a couple more days? if so, [assuming that you are flying into and out of CDG] that is not a very efficient way to organise yourselves. A better idea would be to go straight to the Loire after Paris [train to Tour, pick up car] then after 5 days or so, drive to Normandy, which is an easy drive back to CDG.

Even better, given that you have more time after Paris and want to prioritise Normandy, go to the Loire first, before Paris, and do Normandy afterwards. you can get a train to Tours or Blois from CDG and be there in less than 2 hours. [one change I think]. spend a night in your chosen small city, then pick up your car in the morning to avoid trying to drive with jet lag.

if you decide to do Normandy first, get the train to Rouen from CDG, stay the night there and then pick up your car; that is however a longer journey of 3 hours.

Gretchen

I am on the "prefer more time in Normandy", and as said, a lot more things to do and see that are different "things"--coastal villages, cideries, wonderful cows' milk cheese (!), WWII beaches, half timber architecture. I like the Loire, but would do it in a couple of days--the chateaus are incredible, but I can get caught up fairly quickly. Wines are good--and I think Cointreau is made somewhere in the Loire--I went to the factory, but it was long ago, and I can't recall.
Rouen has a Musee des Beaux Artes with a nice Impressionist wing. There is a string of Medieval abbeys on a road leading out of Rouen that is very interesting. Get the Michelin Green Guide to Normandy and reall pique your interest in this region.

billandcindy

We spent two weeks in the Loire valley in 2013, basing in Amboise. Had a great time and think Amboise is perfectly situated to see the chateaux and other interesting sites in the area (assuming, of course, that you have a car). On that trip we ranged from Saumur to Gien (and even checked out a French language school in Sancerre). We haven't really explored the Normandy/Brittany area other than a day trip from Paris to the Normandy beaches and a weekend trip from Paris to St. Malo (with a side trip to Mont St. Michel). In June, we're traveling by car through the Finistère region in Brittany (Vannes to Dinan, thanks in part to Stu Dudley's excellent itinerary) and will be better able to compare Brittany to the Loire valley.

chutney

We just spent a week in Normandy and 4 days in Brittany this past September. My husband is still talking about how much he liked the food and the beauty of the area. We will definitely be back. We spent a week in Port en Bessin in a fisherman's cottage right on the harbor. Our main interest was the D-Day sites. We also drove the cider route,spent one afternoon in Honfleur and a day at Mont St Michel. In Brittany, we stayed a couple nights in Dinan and two nights on the pink granite coast. We had lots of fish, all things apple, including their wonderful cidre. It was a relaxing vacation, full of beautiful costal scenery and lots of history.
Haven't been to the Loire Valley since I was a teen, so can't comment on that.

Renaud

Wonderful advise from all. Thank you. We are especially interested in history and scenic beauty. But, of course, there is the wine of the Loire. The cidre of Normandy has special appeal. Ah, so many choices!

Based on the comments we will do our first 5 days in the Loire. That leads to the question of what is the better plan; rent a car at CDG and drive, or take the train to Tours and rent there? Of course if we rent at CDG we can buy a case of wine in the valley for our two weeks in a Parisian apartment. LOL. Is there a down side to driving from the airport?

The same question is true for Normandy; should we take the train to Caen and then rent a car? Personally, I like the idea of avoiding the extra time behind the wheel. We only have 7 days in Normandy and will fly out of CDG at the end our our trip.

Again, thanks to all for the helpful comments.

StuDudley

You can purchase Loire wine in Paris. I sure would not haul a case of wine around and I would not drive into Paris either.

There are no trains that go directly from CDG to Tours - they go to the station just outside of tours - St Pierre des Corps. Dinky station, but there are car rentals available there. Trains depart at 8:19, 10:16, 12:49 with a change in le Mans, and at 14:09. I would not take the RER into Paris, change stations in Paris, and then a train to St Pierre or Tours. If one of these departures are about 2 1/2 to 4 hrs after your arrival - take the TGV/train.

I would take a train to Caen also - we don't like the "challenge" of driving in Paris. No need for added stress.

Stu Dudley

Gretchen

For our tour of Normandy we rented at CDG and went to Giverney and Rouen for our first night. Then using the Michelin Green Guide to Normandy were alerted to the Abbey Road out of Rouen toward our Honfleur destination. So, we enjoyed the tour of getting TO Bayeux, our eventual base for touring the WWII sites--visiting Pegasus Bridge on our way there.
CDG is on the sort of correct side for heading this way.

Gretchen

I guess I should add that we rented at CDG upon our arrival. I don't believe there is a train to Caen from CDG (as Stu is suggesting) so you would have to go into Paris which has always been very counter productive to me.
I assume he is assuming you will be leaving from Paris proper to take the train.

StuDudley

Gretchen. I think Renaud is going from CDG to the Loire first. Then Paris, then Normandy.

Stu Dudley

BigRuss

<<(Tours is at the "bottom" of my "interesting cities" list)>>

It makes yours? Must be low qualification criteria for that. Not thinking Tours should be on an "interesting cities" list other than meeting the requirements of a "city." Blois is better, with the eponymous chateau.

StuDudley

Tours is only on my list because it's in every tour book, & Michelin gives it two stars. We spent more time wandering around in Blois than Tours - but Blois isn't high on my list either.

Stu Dudley

Renaud

Thank you for all of the great suggestions. Stu, I understand the disinclination to lug wine from the Loire, but sometimes I try to repeat grand experiences from the past. Not only did we buy a case in a cave, but we carried it back on an early Virgin Atlantic flight from London to Newark. Of course, that was pre-2001, and I was more adventurous and stronger nearly 30 years ago.

But back to the questions. We will do the CDG to Loire trip first, possibly using Amboise as our base for 5 days before returning to Paris. We join friends in Paris for 2 weeks in an apartment, and then just my wife and I head for Normandy for a week. As best as I can estimate the cost, renting and returning a car to Paris is cheaper than the train, a 5 day rental in the Loire valley, and the train return. The benefit of the train is reduced tension of driving around Paris. Is it the consensus that the train is worth the cost? Can the same be said of a train to Rouen and then returning from Caen? Do travelers suggest the extra drive to Rouen (an especially dull city based on one short trip in '81) rather than dropping the care in Caen and taking the train to CDG. We have already booked a hotel at the airport the night before our return home.

I have ordered the Michelin guides, but at the moment I plan on taking my favorite Der Shell Atlas as our primary map.

Renaud

NYtraveler; do you have a favorite châteaux for the son et lumieres? We are unfamiliar with the shows but will look for one during our trip. I do plan a bottle of wine, baguette, and cheese while rowing along the Cher visiting Chenonceau.

StuDudley

>>Rouen (an especially dull city based on one short trip in '81)<<

I guess they've made "improvements" in the past 34 years. I would put Rouen in my "top 5" cities in France, outside of Paris (Toulouse, Dijon, Rennes, Lyon, Rouen, Aix, Strasbourg, Avignon).

Look at the Michelin 300 series maps. I've never heard of Der Shell atlas - and I'm a "map junkie". Michelin 300 series maps are on the scale of 1/150,000 with scenic roads, views, and castles designated. Cities/sites are designated with the same star rating that's in the Michelin Green Guide.

When considering drive/train - are you looking at PREM and "other" reduced fares?? With a car, there are almost always "surprise" charges when you get your final "statement".

Stu Dudley

FrenchMystiqueTours

You can take a train from CDG to the Loire, as Stu mentioned, and rent a car at Saint-Pierre-des-Corps. There are more frequent trains from Paris to the Loire so you can check your arrival time at CDG and see whether it's best to go from CDG or central Paris. If you're using the TGV or Intercités train in France then buy those tickets up to 3 months in advance to get the cheapest prices and use www.capitainetrain.com to do so. One way fares from Paris/CDG to Saint-Pierre-des-Corps start at around 15€ or 20€ when purchased in advance. If arriving after an international flight it is much safer to train anywhere and then rent a car to avoid the fatigue from jet-lag. The train is also much faster than driving and cheaper than the cost of fuel and tolls (when tickets are purchased in advance and if there are only two of you).

You can also take a train from Paris to Caen or Rouen but there are interesting places to visit between Paris and Rouen or Caen. It's very easy to rent a car near Porte Maillot in Paris as you simply drive down the avenue Charles de Gaulle and that leads directly to the A13 highway to Normandy so no city driving and no way to get confused or lost. Then you can visit Giverny, Château Gaillard, La Roche-Guyon or follow the Route of the Abbeys along the Seine, among many other possibilities. Personally, I would drive out of Paris and then take a train back to Paris/CDG from Caen or some other place. Use www.autoeurope.com for car rental info.

In regards to buying wine, while you can certainly get wine from any region in Paris itself you'll always have a greater selection and pay less when buying wine in the region where it is produced. A lot of wine never gets exported from the region where it is produced simply because it is not produced in sufficient quantity and gets "absorbed" (so to speak) locally.

Definitely get the 300 series Michelin maps for any regions where you will drive and visit. Quite often when I vacation in France I do absolutely no research and simply rely on my Michelin maps to guide me because they have so many icons designating interesting places to see and visit. I'll plan a rough itinerary (or several) each evening and then get in the car the next day and just wander and drive around, often stumbling on unexpected things along the way. For Normandy get maps #303 and #304 and for the Loire get maps #317 and #318. If you plan on spending any time in eastern Brittany around Mont Saint-Michel or Dinan or Saint-Malo then also get map #309.

Here is my standard advice about how to use Michelin maps to explore and some other general info:

"Get your hands on the Michelin maps. You want the ones of the scale 1:200,000 (regional maps) or 1:150,000 (departmental maps, more detailed, cover slightly less area) for whatever regions you visit. A nice feature of the 1:150,000 maps is they show the starred attractions in the corresponding Michelin Green guidebooks. The Michelin maps have icons for all kinds of historically/touristically interesting things such as châteaux, ruins, churches, abbeys, scenic view points, caves, Roman sites, megaliths, designated scenic roads and many other things.

Usually when I'm exploring various regions in France I just look at the map and I am able to plan interesting and scenic drives just reading the map. For instance, I usually look for a designated scenic road, which are highlighted in green, and I especially look for towns with the historic church and/or château icon. With the departmental maps also look for towns/sites/attractions that have been give one or more Michelin stars. I also try to make sure the route goes through as many small villages as possible. Usually putting all these things together I find interesting and scenic drives without even knowing where I am going and with no assistance from a guide book. Often these places are never mentioned in guidebooks and remain completely unknown to many tourists.

You can buy the Michelin maps from their website and here is a link to the page that shows you the 1:200,000 scale maps of France (Regional maps):

http://tinyurl.com/4bt96ev

And here is a link to the page that shows you the 1:150,000 scale maps of France (Départementale maps):

http://tinyurl.com/6mt4n64

You could also buy them here but then you can't do research beforehand. The maps can be bought in many places such as bookstores, news stands, magazine stores, larger supermarkets, department stores, hypermarkets and in the full service rest areas on the autoroutes, just to name a few. If you're going to be traveling all over France you may find it easier to buy the Michelin Atlas, which covers all of France.

And speaking of Michelin, you can go to the website viamichelin.com and get info on drive times and distances, toll and fuel costs and suggested routes (i.e. scenic routes). The drive times given do not consider stops (fuel, food, bathrooms) nor do they consider bad weather and bad traffic. I find the drive times very accurate when these factors are accounted for. The time estimates can break down when you are driving in congested urban areas, like in or near Paris, due to the unpredictability of heavy traffic or traffic jams. They can also be affected on peak travel days, specifically on autoroutes leading to/from popular destinations.

You can acquaint yourself with rules of the road in France and road signs and such and this website will give you some useful tips:

http://www.nickbooth.id.au/Tips/FrenchDrive.htm

Here is some other general advice for you. You can google the tourist office websites for any region, département, city , town or village you may want to visit. You will find loads of info on these websites including hotel/accommodation and restaurant info as well as what to see and do in the area. Occasionally the websites have English versions. In doing a google search enter the words "office de tourisme" followed by the name of your region, département, city, town or village and this will bring that place to the top of your search."

So there's my advice about using Michelin maps and tourist office websites to plan a vacation in France. If you have a look at the thread below there is a lot of info about some of the best sites to visit in Normandy from Giverny out to Bayeux and the D-Day sites. In it are links to all the major tourist office websites for that region:

http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic....html#39058384

If cheese and cidre interest you then be sure to visit the Pays d'Auge region south of Deauville/Trouville. I find it to be the most scenically beautiful part of Normandy and it is also the major cheese and cidre region.

The thread below has info about the Loire and has links to all the major tourist office websites in that region plus info about wine, food, châteaux, biking etc.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...-de-france.cfm

If you are going to include Eastern Brittany in your itinerary you can have a look at a photo report I wrote about exploring that area. It will illustrate how I use Michelin maps and tourist office info to plan my vacations and at the very end of the report are links to all the major tourist office websites: http://tinyurl.com/86s4v8f

Renaud

FrenchMystiqueTours, thank you for the recommendations and the links, including that for the travel pictures. I have checked out captaintrain and will no doubt make use of their services. We are especially excited about eh cheese and cidre route in Pays d'Auge.

Stu, I'm surprised you've never heard of Der Shell Atlas. It is slanted towards German, and it is in German. My year in Germany and Belgium left me a Shell Atlas fan. It is the easiest map to manage when assisting with navigation since you do not have to unfold and fold a cumbersome map. However, while it is 1:300000 for German it drops to 1:750000 for France. I can copy the pages I need and then follow your advise about the Michelin maps. I have used them in the past, and am a fan of the Green guides. Clearly Michelin will better suit our needs for France. Thanks.

Thanks to everyone for the recommendations. We are using your suggestions in organizing the trip!