farrermog

An 11 November Remembrance Day thought for all who visit the countryside of western Europe - many village churchyards, particularly in those areas which were under the paths of the main WWII Allied bomber streams, have lone graves of aircrew which are presumably rarely visited compared with designated war cemeteries. Earlier this year I visited one such village in eastern France which has the grave of an RAF Lancaster bomber crew, the only Australian among them the boyfriend of a now 90 years old aunt. After my visit I obtained from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission a spreadsheet of other non war cemetery graves in that area (Haute Marne) and regret not having known that very close by is another village with the grave of a Lancaster crew including as it happens another lone Australian. Checking for and seeking out some of these war graves as we go about our travels in our much more fortunate lives would not only add another dimension to our individual travel experiences, but more importantly help to preserve the memories of those young men who were destined never to set foot on European soil but who remain there forever.

VolCrew

Good reminder on Veterans' Day. Thank you.

scotlib

Thank you for the information on this Veterans Day.

I am already using the Commission's web site - http://www.cwgc.org/ - to search some possible visits on my April trip to the UK.

To search for grave sites, the locations go right around the globe.

flanneruk

Interesting point.

The RAF had a disproportionately high number of Commonwealth (and American) volunteers, compared with the Army or Royal Navy. Aircrew were disproportionately likely to be killed: their bodies, inevitably, were randomly scattered across enemy and occupied territory.

So lots of Europe's ordinary graveyards have CWGC-maintained individual tombstones for overseas volunteers: fatalities among conscripted Commonwealth soldiers were typically concentrated densely enough to be buried near each other in the war cemeteries we're all familiar with.

I don't know how, except by a special request to the CWGC, it's possible to locate them. But on almost any road journey across Europe, most followers of this site (especially those from the Commonwealth) will be passing close to a graveyard of a compatriot killed in WW1 or WW2.

Incidentally: does anyone know what happened to the bodies of Czechs, Poles, Free French etc who died in battle away from their homeland?

The_lonely_traveler

"does anyone know what happened to the bodies of Czechs, Poles, Free French etc who died in battle away from their homeland?"
The same as to US soldiers. Most have been repatriated to their country of origin, but there are war cemeteries for others too. For example, in Amersfoort, the Netherlands is a war cemetery for Russian soldiers. Wikipedia tells you more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_W...he_Netherlands

A website, dedicated to soldiers from all over the world, is available here => http://www.oorlogsgraven.org/frame_nl.html (sorry, Dutch language only).

AnselmAdorne

"Incidentally: does anyone know what happened to the bodies of Czechs, Poles, Free French etc who died in battle away from their homeland?"

I am not sure about Czechs, Poles, or Free French, but I know of at least two Great War burial sites that are the resting place of Portuguese and Italian nationals. I saw the former at Neuve Chapell, near the Indian War Memorial, and the latter in the valley of the Aisne below Chemin des Dames.

I assume both sites are maintained by their government.

hetismij2

Harlingen where my son lives and works has 60 odd war graves in teh general cemetery. Kimswerd, the village in Friesland where my son used to live has six Commonwealth graves in the churchyard - if I remember correctly they are of Canadian airmen. On Vlieland there are also a large number of Commonwealth graves in the churchyard, again of airmen.
All are beautifully cared for. If I was visiting my son this weekend I would certainly have gone to Kimswerd to visit those graves.

tower

Farremog:

Thanks to you for your caring post..as well as to all the other posters above..

It is somehow easy to forget that aside from Americans, British, Canadians, Australian, NZ'ers, French, Dutch, Belgians...there were many WWII and WWI deaths in South African units, units from India, and deaths representing most all of the then British colonies as well as "free fightng elements" from many occupied countries. The German war cemetery in Normandie is perhaps a major example of Axis burial places in what was to them enemy territory.

All of the above were, after all, fighting in two "world" wars (the first..1914-1918...of which was said to be "the war to end all wars!"

While helping to carry a wounded soldier, Father Francis Patrick Duffy, the decorated Catholic chaplain (and frequent volunteer stretcher-bearer for the Fighting Irish regiment, WW I)is purported to have shouted to his commander, ...."War is hell, William!".

Replied Colonel "Wild Bill" Donovan.."War sure as hell IS hell, Father!"

flanneruk

"It is somehow easy to forget that...there were many WWII and WWI deaths in ... units from India"

The then India sent the largest volunteer army the world's ever seen to fight for us. There are relatively few Indian war graves in Europe, because most of the volunteers were cremated. But that still leaves an awful lot of Muslim and Christian graves of what we'd now call Indians, Pakistanis Bangladeshis and Sri Lankans: India still contributes 1% of the whole Commonwealth War Grave Commission annual cost

Commemorated in plaques at hundreds of CWGC cemeteries around the world, and at www.cwgc.org/foreverindia/

tower

Flanner...WW I, Indian artillery batteries were considered "dead on" and highly regarded by the Entente troops. General Pershing called their acccuracy "uncanny"..

hopingtotravel

Thank you.

farrermog

UPDATE

The Commonwealth War Graves Commission site now makes available war grave locations on a French Department (as well as English County, & etc) basis, together with Google Earth links. [Last year when I enquired about graves in Haute Marne I was emailed a spreadsheet extract.]

http://www.cwgc.org/find-a-cemetery.aspx

Many of those graves in 'non designated war cemeteries', typically in village churchyards or communal cemeteries in France in particular, are of mixed Commonwealth nationality WWII bomber crews.

Brief descriptions of the fateful actions can be found in the excellent resource RAF Bomber Command Losses of the Second World War by WR Chorley, available at some public or institutional libraries (only about a dozen such locations in Australia, including the Australian War Memorial Research Centre in Canberra), or for purchase via -

http://astore.amazon.co.uk/httpwwwai...ail/0904597911

with updates available at -

http://www.rafinfo.org.uk/BCWW2Losses/default.htm

wanderfrau

Very interesting post. Thanks for taking the time to update it.

flpab

I know when we were in Belgium visiting the Battle of the Bulge sites we stopped for gas one day and I walked across the road to check out a cemetery and there was a whole Lancaster bomber crew buried there. I do think there were some Aussies. We took pics and my husband was going to do some research on the crew. I wish I knew the exact location but we were everywhere that day. I have pics though.

farrermog

Topping for 11 November Remembrance Day.

[Check for war graves on your travels and find out something of their story - see esp UPDATE on April 15 above. You will be rewarded and they will be remembered.]

Also linking

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ia-hamburg.cfm

latedaytraveler

Farrermog and others, thank you for your caring and appropriate posts commemorating what we used to call “Armistice Day” in the US if anyone remembers that designation.

latedaytraveler

Farrermog and others, thank you for your caring and appropriate posts commemorating what we used to call “Armistice Day”in the US if anyone remembers that designation.

tomboy

A worthy post to make mention of the well-maintained, beautiful pocket park in Sarlat that memorializes local residents and members of the resistance who were killed by the Naziis in Sarlat.

farrermog

Topping on ANZAC Day for Australian and New Zealand travellers in particular.

See also -

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...ia-hamburg.cfm

flanneruk

The CWGC site now, on a separate page from the "Find a cemetery" search page already referenced, allows searches by nationality (or more precisely: by service attachment), by country of burial. http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead.aspx

There are, for example, 33,000 members of the Australian forces buried in France (out of a worldwide total of 103,000 from the Australian forces in CWGC graves) - but 7,500 in Britain and 250 in Italy. These are often in tiny packets: a couple of bodies in an English churchyard here or a civic cemetery in the Italian countryside.