Next step of Journey - Venice to Pienza - opinions/suggestions wanted

I doubt if you really want to drive into Florence from that location--just too far for a day trip IMHO. The rest looks very good, but include Volterra with san Gim.--Pisa is too far. The hot air balloon departs at near dawn--good luck with the 3 teenagers.

It sounds like you're already committed to the agriturismo, but are you sure the teenagers would enjoy that? I know that my kids (current 14 and 10yo) would probably prefer to be in a city or small town, where there's more to do and see, and depending on your kids' ages, they could do some of that on their own. Or at least, consider maybe an overnight in Florence. My daughter loved hanging out in the Piazza Signoria and watching the (American) street performers.

I agree that Pisa is too far. Volterra is interesting, and has a very good Etruscan museum (though I'll admit, you have to be interested in Etruscan stuff to enjoy it) and the remains of a Roman amplitheater on the north edge of town (just outside the city walls, as I recall).

You don't need an entire day in Pienza, unless you're including that in your travel time from Venice.

My experience with wineries in Italy is that they are, largely, NOT like those in California, where you can just stop by. Castello Banfi is the biggest vineyard in Italy (and, BTW, the one that seemed most like the California wineries to me), and that one you CAN just stop by, and pay for a tasting in their large store/tasting area. There, and elsewhere, if you want a tour you'll need to arrange it in advance. My DH is very much into wine, and before our several trips to the area, he came up with some specific wineries that he wanted to visit. Our hotel then arranged visits to those places (one of them was Ciacci Piccolomini, which I only remember because the name is so fun to say).

Pecorino is the type of cheese that you'll see the most all over Tuscany; enjoy it - it's nothing like, and much better than, the pecorino that's available here in the U.S., especially the young (fresh) pecorinos.

Thanks Lexma90. My daughters (11 &14 yrs old)researched and picked this agriturismo so I feel good about staying there. Plus it has a swimming pool. I think we are going to be pretty busy each day so we thought it would be nice to have some down time away from everything each day. Thanks for the tips about the wineries. I will have to do more research on them.

We stayed a week in Pienza. This area makes for a great base. Pienza has some nice shops.

Tuscany is a giant photo Op. Drive the area of the Sienese Crete.

Some other possibilities are Monteriggioni castle (mentioned by Dante in his Divine Comedy), Monte Oliveto Abbey, Sant' Antimo-a special photo op (visit during Gregorian chant), San Galgano (sword in the stone), castles and enchanted medieval villages.

We took a day trip to Florence, not too far for us. Reservations for Uffizi and Accademia are a must. Gelato at Vivoli's, leather from the school connected to Santa Croce, climb the Domo.
We did some wine tasting but in Montepulciano and Montalcino. Chiante area was better for visiting wineries.

I would substitute Assisi/Perugia for Thursday - drive to San Gimgnano/Pisa.

Look up- You are in Toscana!

Save San Gimgnano until later in the day when the cruise ship tours have gone.

We usually stay near Pienza and Florence is a straight forward day trip - just set off early and get back later.

Montalcino means Brunello - best red in Italy.

On the way back from Montisi to Pienza is the Church at Sant' Anna in Camprena. Take any of the small looking roads off to the right going back to Pienza. You may get lost (GPS helps) but you will run into some of the most stunning landscapes man has created.

Café Poliziana in Montepulciano - lots of charm and great views.

Hotel Relais Il Chiostro in Pienza - half decent meal and the view from its terraces that everyone dies for.

Last time we went (may be corrected) avoid the restaurants in Monteriggioni very overpriced tourist fodder with disagreeable customers.

San Quirico D'Orcia - my favourite village in the world. Don't know why - nice formal public gardens. Il Forno here has good country cooking and a rear garden which comes to life at night - trees full of white lights and magical setting.

God I am booking again !!!

We stayed in Pienza for 4 nights in September and loved it! It's a pretty town with some nice shops & wonderful restaurants!

We actually split our time in Tuscany between San Gimignano & Pienza. From San Gimignano, we visited Siena & Volterra. From Pienza, we went to Montalcino, Montelpulciano, San Quirico, Orvieto, Civita di Bagnoreggio & Bagno Vignoni. We also visited the Abbey of Monte Oliveto Maggiore & Sant'Antimo.

If you would like more details of our stay in Pienza (including restaurants) & day trips we took, you can go to my trip report A Trip to Northern Italy - Sept 14 to Oct 5, 2009 by clicking on my name above. Perhaps you will find some useful information & ideas that will be helpful as you plan your trip!

I would suggest leaving Florence for another trip when you can allocate time to stay here. It is such an incredible city and there are simply too many highlights to see in one day!

Have fun planning!

2010

Good to hear that your kids are looking forward to the agriturismo. We actually did stay at a hotel that was also a farm on our last trip, for 3 nights. Our daughter would filch a piece of proscuitto from the breakfast table each morning, to feed to the outdoor farm cat. I also felt that it was good for her to see all the farm animals that were used in making the foods for the restaurant that was part of the facility.

Within Montalcino and Montepulciano there are enotecas, which provide wines from a variety of different wineries. They are fun to visit, as well. On, in Montalcino, has a beautiful area in back overlooking the countryside, offers flights of wines to try, and also flights of olive oils. Your daughters may like that (since I'm assuming they'll have limited interest in trying the wine).

In Siena, hanging out at the Campo, the main piazza, is fun and good for people-watching. Your kids will be able to wander around a little bit, while you sit and drink wine. Around the edge of the campo are a string of touristy restaurants, and one wine bar, which has a good selection of local wines and nice little complimentary dishes of food to accompany the wine.

Thanks everyone for your ideas. I probably will be changing our schedule based on your comments.

2010 - I can't wait to read your trip report.

Lexma90 - The place in Montalcino that you mentioned - Is it an establishment with a name? How would I find it? Is there a place to try different types of cheeses too?

Markrosy - I already can't wait to go as this is our first time to Italy and I am sure not our last but your comments really made me want to go now!

dugi_otok - wrote down all of your suggestions. Great ideas!

Overall question - Is there an age restriction for wine bars as there is in the US? The teenagers obviously would not be drinking but they would be with us.

Thanks

I see your agriturismo doesn't offer dinner. That means you'll have to find dinner elsewhere each night, then drive back to the agriturismo. And Italian dinners run long and late. No wine for the driver, and it can be difficult to find your way through the countryside in the dark.

All of you who drove to Florence as a daytrip, how did you do this? Where did you park? How much did it cost? Were you able to walk into the Centro Storico or did you have to take a bus?

I would think it much better to park (for free) in a smaller town near a train or bus station and take public transportation into Florence. But then you're tied to the bus or train schedule.

readytotraveltoo - In our travels we have only come encountered two places with true charisma - NYC and Tuscany south of Siena.

NYC is easy to see why but you drive round the farmhouses, fields and landscapes of Tuscany with strange feelings of deja vu. Its only then you realise that this one was from Gladiator, this one was on the back of the ragu sauce bottle etc etc.

After many many years of travelling round Italy, I challenge anyone to deny they are a strange bunch. Its all down to personal experience - we have found om most of our travels round Tuscany (particularly with the landowners) that many of the people have that warm confidence of old money. We stayed with one family paid for an apartment on the farm and got vertually full board including wine on tap and ice cream every afternoon. On another estate in Chianti - the very young owner took a shine to either me or my brand new Landrover - asked her how long she had lived there - lost a bit in the translation she thought I asked about the family - the reply came back 567 years!

I recently visited Sicily and the locals really did have a general sense of insecurity about them (years of watching their back) just don't get that in Tuscany.

Enjoy it !

Mimar - our agriturismo only serves breakfast but there is a kitchen in each apartment. We plan to have big lunch everyday so our dinner will be small. We love to go to markets for the fresh ingredients so with several cooks in our group we don't see this as a problem. Plus Pienza is only 2 km away from us.

I figured you would ask for names, but I didn't have them at the time. The place in Montalcino is Enoteca Osteria Osticcio, on via Matteoti, 23, and as I recall, it's right in the center of town. (Oh, it has a web site, http://www.osticcio.com/, and looks like they do now have cheese plates.) The wine bar on the Campo in Siena is Liberamente Osteria Wine Bar. Also VERY important in Siena is a great gelateria, Gelateria la Costarella Caffe, via di citta, 31/33. There's also the well-known pasticceria, Nanini. They have great little cookie/pastry called "ricciarelli."

Drinking laws in Italy are very different from the U.S. I think (I know someone will correct me if I'm wrong) the age is 16. Prior to that, it's very common for teens to be offered wine if they're somewhere with our parents. When we took our 10yo daugher to Italy this fall, she was offered wine (about 1/8 of a glass) with dinner several times. The same happened on other trips with our son (who is now 14) - in fact, in the Czech Republic last year, the waiter misunderstood my son's order of "Mattoni," which is a bottled water, for "martini" - and served him one! So especially if your 14yo looks older, don't be surprised if she's offered wine with a meal if you're having a bottle.

Wine bars, like in the U.S., are a relatively new concept in Italy. Every, or almost every, bar, serves almost everything, so everyone goes to the bars. You can go to the bar for breakfast, espresso or cappuccino (and you can even have it "corrected" is liquor, if you want), along with a cornetto (pastry). Later, you can get coffee drinks, sodas and any kind of wine or liquor. If it's more of a cafe, then food, too, and various disgusting ice cream concoctions. So there's not the line between places that kids are allowed to go to, or not, that there is in the U.S. Some bars will have a bigger selection of different kinds of wines, if that's what you're looking for. Otherwise, you can go to an enoteca (which usually has the wines of several producers, but not every producer). And the kids can go anywhere.

Great views of the Tuscan countryside from Osticcio. I sampled Brunello's there and also had a bruschette sampler (6€ I think) that was fabulous. I don't see it listed on their online menu, but I'm sure they will still have it. It consisted of six samples, a pesto, a gorgonzola with walnuts, a sauteed radicchio with melted cheese, a caprese (the oo on it was fantastic), a salumi of some type topped with what appeared to be a dollop of mashed garlic and turned out to be potato, and a pate. The wines were served on white paper coasters with the wine information written on each one.

The only thing I wonder about is whether the kids are going to want something scheduled for every day. Maybe they'd like a day in the middle to kick back by the pool for the afternoon.

And I have to disagree that you don't even need a day in Pienza! I stayed there for three nights and never left. There's more to see there than most people think. Don't miss The Hermitage, or Pieve di Corsignano, some of which dates back to the 11th C. It’s outside of town, a pretty good walk, but you'll have a car, so you can drive. Plenty to see in town as well (Palazzo Piccolomini, which is the Pope’s house—Pius II, who designed the town; Church of San Fransesco, which has an amazing Nativity scene; Borgia Palace). Be sure to order grilled Pecorino any time you see it on a menu...so good! Osteria Sette de Vino is a great place for lunch (if you stand with your back to the church in the main square, walk straight down the street ahead of you and it will be about a block down on the right).

Lexma90- thanks again for the information. My daughter will be 15 when we are there but she is already 2 inches taller than me so I have a feeling they will ask her if she wants wine.

I think I have decided on Sunday - Go to San Quirico d'Orcia first and have lunch at Il Forno then head to Pienza for the rest of day and have dinner at one of the restuarants. Too much for the day?? I plan to go back to Pienza on Friday as it is market day.

I have not decided on the days in between but am working on Thursday. Tell me if this is doable. Drive from Pienza to Orvieto on A1(per viamichelin)taking only 1hr 15mins. Want to go to the farmers market on Piazza del Popolo. Worth it? Visit local winery - Tenuta Le Velette - specializes in Orvieto Classico White Wine(my sister prefers white/ I love all!)Walk around the ceramic shops and visit the Duomo. Get lunch somewhere. Any suggestions? Then head to the Abbey at Sant Antimo to hear Gregorian Chant via SR2(I think). I have not look at the schedule of times yet but will. Then head to the Castello Banfi winery then to Montalcino for dinner at Enoteca Osteria Osticcio and walk around. too much???

Viamichelin states that Pisa is 2hr 30mins from Pienza. True?Can we catch a train and get there faster? My sister and her son really want to go.

I keep reading about the "roads of Crete Senese". What does that mean?

Has anyone been to the Wine and Jazz Festival in Montalcina? It stated that it was held annually in July.

Thanks

Yes, far too much. You need a full day just for the Montalcino loop---to include Bagno Vignoni, St. Antimo, a winery[ I would suggest Fattoria Barbi], and Montalcino. You have done your homework but are planning too much per day. Take some time to relax and enjoy.

If your sister and her son want to drive for 5 hours one day to get to Pisa, then they can do that - the entire group doesn't have to go, do they? I don't know for sure, but I wouldn't think the train wouldn't be any faster, because you have to switch trains in Florence.

On your thoughts and plans, I would suggest (of course, right?) what we usually do. I have a bunch of ideas and alternatives, then we decide each morning (or the night before) what we'll do. That way, we can adjust based on the weather, whether people are tired of driving, and what people have enjoyed doing. On our last trip, to Italy, I way under-estimated my daughter's interest in art, so we ended up adding many more museums than I thought she'd want to visit - you just never know.

On the markets, I generally haven't found markets in Italy to be as good or as interesting as those in France. I would suggest you only go to one, whichever one is the biggest. And if you have fun, and end up buying or wanting to buy lots of food, you can then have a picnic lunch. Our kids enjoy that sometimes as an alternative to leisurely Italian meals.

The Orvieto day might not all fit in - but go to Orvieto, and see if you have time to go to Castello Banfi as well. I know Castello Banfi is popular, and it's beautiful (but then, everything in Italy is, I think), but it was so much like places in California that I didn't find it that interesting.

On travel times, remember to consider waking up, having breakfast, getting on the road. Then a lunch that will probably last at least 1 hour. And some places close in the afternoon for siesta. And the drive home. And remember that the driving laws in Italy re drinking and driving are VERY strict, so driving home after dinner means the driver doesn't have much wine with dinner.

There are, I think, some tufa caves in Orvieto - we didn't have kids when we visited, so we didn't check it out, but see if there are. I know there are restaurants built into tufa caves; that's kind of interesting.

There is the Underground Orvieto tour (it's not the Etruscan tombs which are scattered around Orvieto which can also be visited), but English tours are only at certain times (schedule subject to change).
http://www.orvietounderground.it/

Not far from Orvieto is Civita di Bagnoregio, but you already have a quite full schedule.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civita_di_Bagnoregio

The roads of Crete Senese might be referring to the "white" roads. Crete Senesi is an area of Tuscany. Many roads are white roads.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00484/SNF10TR02SC_384_484259a.jpg

http://www.discoverytravel.co.uk/uploads/images/tuscany_white_road.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crete_Senesi

We stayed in Pienza for a week last May we drove over to Monticchello (about 20Min) for dinner 2 nites at Taverna di Moranda. The chef is very talented, his wife is warm and inviting and speaks English. We judge these meals as the best we have had in Italy.

http://www.tavernadimoranda.it/eng_guide.htm

Hi readytotraveltoo,
We stayed at Fonte Bertusi last month for a week and just loved it. The hosts: Manuela and Andrea are wonderful. The breakfasts are the best we had anywhere. Each apt has full kitchen facilities and the swimming pool is beautiful. Be sure to allow yourself some time to just hang around the property as it is beautiful. You are 10 min from Pienza and the other direction is San Quirico in 10 minutes. Very easy driving.

One day we went to Orvieto and then Civita. It is only about 15 minutes away. I just loved Civita. You walk across a long pedestrian bridge to get to Civita. It is a beautiful old town with just a few locals remaining. You can probably walk around it in about 1 hour.

We loved the San Antimo monastery. When we went we could hear the chanting but it appeared to be coming in through the speakers on the wall. Wasn't sure if it was live or not. Then we went to Montalcino.

We also loved Montepulciano and Cortona. Did these together one day.

A daytrip to Siena was easy. Drive back to Fonte Bertusi on the road to Asciano and San Giovani. It was a beautiful drive. Very Tuscan looking.

You will get to enjoy the new BBQ area the Fonte Bertusi is building. They had started on it when we were there, should be ready when you go.

Don't forget to allow time to just drive around and see what there is to see. Such beautiful scenery everywhere. Can't wait to return.
Take care,
Michele

5 things-

1. The market day in Pienza is really nothing. 5-10 minutes and you're done. It is very small.

2. SusanP mentioned- "Be sure to order grilled Pecorino any time you see it on a menu." Follow this advice. Absolutely fantastic!

3. Be sure to take the time to explore the small villages and countryside near your base. I've stayed at Fonte Bertusi 5 times and some of my favorite memories are my visits to the nearby villages, driving on the white roads (dirt roads) and hiking/walking the roads/trails throughout the area. Your kids may enjoy a hike, especially if they take their cameras. This guidebook will point you towards some of the smaller villages to visit-

http://www.amazon.com/Insight-Guide-Tuscany-Guides/dp/1585733008

4. Don't do a day trip to Pisa. It's too far and there is so much to see and experience near your base.

5. Be sure to pick up a good, detailed map. A scale of 1:2000.000 or 1:170.000 is best. You can purchase one in Pienza.

Enjoy your trip!

Oops- the map should be 1:200.000, not 1:2000.000.

I agree with the above suggestion regarding Enoteca Osteria Osticcio. My husband & I have gone to this area every year for about 6 years - love the Brunello & Nobile wine. At Osticcio, they are wonderful at providing varied tastings and I've had several cases of wine shipped back from them successfully. In Pienza, Ghino and his son, Patrick are very knowledgeable and provide wonderful wine tastings as well. Again, I've had cases shipped back from them. The Enoteca in Montalcino is better, though, with teenagers because you can sit and eat as well.

Don't miss eating in Pienza at Latte di Luna & Il Rosselino. At Monticchiello, I love Osteria La Porta. In Montalcino, Grappolo Blu is my favorite.

(I'm getting hungry!)
Hope this helps...

Hope this helps...

Pisa is 130 miles (260 mile round trip) from Pienza. That is too long for a daytrip by normal standards. I have not been to Pisa for many years but I believe that you park with the tour buses and shuttle to the sites adding 1/2 hour each way (1 hour) to your 5 hour trip time estimate.

Having said the above it is doable. Your minimum stop time is about an hour to view the tower, take some trick photos of holding up the tower, walking around the square, and taking a quick march through the Duomo. If you want to climb the tower add another hour( can reserve on-line at www.opapisa.it). If you want to visit the other sights (Field of Miracles) add another 2 hours. You want lunch? Another hour.

Drive back before dark and check the leaning tower off your to do list.

Sienese Crete. One of the scenic drives you can take is route 438 (Siena-Asciano-Oliveto Maggiare-San Giovanni d'Asso). To observe this on a map Go to ViaMichelin route Siena to Pienza, see on map as green scenic. Click on map to enlarge.

Good writeup on Sant'Antimo and chant times.
http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/tuscany/sant_antimo.htm

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