Need Some Italy Planning Help

Old Nov 23rd, 2014, 04:43 PM
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Need Some Italy Planning Help

We would be flying into Milan (too good of a deal to pass or beat)arriving 8 am on 4/2 and flying out the morning of 4/12 giving us 10 days on the ground.

First trip to Italy for us. It's my husband and I and our 13 year old son. We want to see a lot but are realistic and know time will be spent on trains.

Would love some suggestions for touring plan. Was thinking Florence and Rome. Maybe stay in Milan at the end to see Lake Cuomo region too.
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Old Nov 23rd, 2014, 05:07 PM
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It would certainly be possible to see Florence and Rome in 10 days.

I'd probably take the train to Rome to start. It's about 3 hours. Florence is less than two hours from Milan but between travel and jet lag you won't have anywhere close to a full day for sightseeing that day so I'd take the longer train ride that day. Also Rome gets very crowded close to Easter which is the 15th next year so better to go there first. Then to Florence. You could easily fill 5 days Rome and 4 Florence (last day in Milan to be there the day before the flight out). But if you wanted a couple days on Lake Como it would not be unreasonable to shorten the other two by a day each and add in Lake Como. I think it's a bit early in the season but you could get lucky with the weather.
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Old Nov 23rd, 2014, 05:22 PM
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Thank you. Easter is April 5th next year. Would that alter your suggestion?
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Old Nov 23rd, 2014, 05:30 PM
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Fast trains from Milano Centrale to Rome take 3 hours or a little more.

From MC to Firenze, about an hour and 40 minutes.

You have to get from the airport, into Milan, and then get on a train.

I think I would opt for Firenze first, because it will be a tough traveling day if you are flying from North America.

So get to Florence first, is my suggestion.

Day 1 is kind of a loss, but you will have the late afternoon (a good time of day in Florence) and evening. Maybe plan one activity.

You could spend your first three nights in Florence and your next five nights in Rome.

On the morning of the 9th day, you could take a train back to Milan then on to Varenna or Como, but I just don't think I would. It's hours of train rides for a day and a half, then you have to get back to MXP for an early flight. The deciding factor for me would be weather. Early April could be wet and cold on Lake Como with less than frequent boat service around the lake. You might do an awful lot of schlepping for not much return in an essentially outdoor only area.

OR

Head straight to Venice and spend two nights.

Train to Florence for 3 nights.

Train to Rome for 4 nights and at the end of your tenth day, get a late train back to Milan and spend the night near the airport or very close to airport transportation. Alitalia has a flight at 9:15 pm to MXP that is very inexpensive. That would give you almost all of your last day in Rome and you could spend then night at MXP.

Staying in just Florence and Rome would give you time for more daytrips.

If you reverse order, do Rome first and Florence second, that will put you closer to Milan at the end of your trip, but your still faced with the logistics of getting to MXP for an early flight, and the weatheer risk and time factors on getting to Lake Como.

In any case, these are ideas that I might suggest for this time of year and time frame.
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Old Nov 23rd, 2014, 06:10 PM
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I wouldn't go to Rome first if you hope to see things like St. Peter's, the Vatican Museums and the Sistine Chapel. There will be masses or services held in St. Peter's on Holy Thursday, Good Friday, Saturday and Easter Sunday. Of course, if you want to attend one of these services, you should see Rome first but know that the Vatican Museums (and Sistine Chapel) are closed every Sunday and would also be closed on Easter Monday (a national holiday in Italy). Many other sights/museums are closed every Monday, holiday or not.

I would go first to Florence and then head to Rome. Train to Milan some time on April 11th. I'd skip Lake Como.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 01:05 AM
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The stories of Rome being overrun at Easter are greatly exaggerated. In the week before Easter, the Vatican begins to have greater numbers of visitors from Holy Thursday through Easter Monday. In the rest of Rome, there will be no difference from any other week in early spring, with the exception of Good Friday, when there is a big procession at the Colosseum in the evening, which means that the area is off limits beginning some time in the afternoon.

In the week after Easter, there will be more visitors in every city in Italy,and also in cities like Paris, because Monday is a national holiday in many European countries, and many schools also have their spring break that week. This makes it a popular week for family holidays.

There are many inaccuracies in what was said above about the Vatican. There is a big mass at St. Peter's on Holy Thursday, in the evening. The Pope often celebrates that mass in a prison or some other place rather than the Vatican, but there will be a mass anyway at the Basilica.

There are no masses at all on Good Friday, or early in the day of Holy Saturday, although there would be other services, because it's a period of mourning, and the mass is by definition a celebration of a feast day. None of these services would interfere with a visit to the Basilica. There are masses and other services all day long, every day of the year, at St. Peter's Basilica, but almost all of them are in side chapels, and don't impede visits to the Basilica. You can't go into the chapels where mass is being celebrated, unless you want to attend the mass. The Pope is never at these masses.

In the evening of Holy Saturday, there is the Easter Vigil service at the Basilica, which begins as a solemn service and ends with a festive celebration of the first Easter Mass at midnight. On Easter Sunday and Monday, there are big papal masses.

You can't attend any papal mass without a ticket. The tickets are free, and you can request them by following the instructions on this site:

http://www.vatican.va/various/prefettura/index_en.html

Pope Francis doesn't publish his calendar very far in advance. If you request tickets for a particular service or mass, and it turns out that he won't be presiding, they'll tell you you don't need a ticket for it.

For the rest, there's no reason to avoid the Vatican in the week before Easter. The Vatican Museums have their regular visiting hours all week long. They're closed on Easter Sunday, as they are most Sundays of the year, and they're also closed on Easter Monday. That means they'll be more crowded than usual on Tuesday the week after Easter, and perhaps on the Saturday before. (I would never go to the Vatican Museums on a Saturday at any time of the year, because the crowds are beyond belief.)

In the rest of Rome apart from the Vatican, Easter is no different from other weeks in the spring, with the exception of some extra crowds in the week after. I've been to Rome at that time of the year, and found it perfectly normal. The people who say it's very crowded at Easter may not realize that crowds are normal in Rome.

I would schedule Rome and Florence without reference to Easter. The week before Easter won't have any impact on your visit, with the sole exception of the procession at the Colosseum on Good Friday. In the week after Easter, both Rome and Florence will be more crowded than usual. I wouldn't recommend visiting the Vatican Museums and Sistine Chapel between Good Friday and the Tuesday after Easter, because it's closed for two days (Sunday and Monday) which makes the Saturday and the Tuesday more crowded than the usual hordes.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 02:54 AM
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Sorry I got the date of Easter wrong. Yes, that would change my suggestion. I would then do Florence first.

I've never been in Rome in the weeks right before or after Easter and bvlenci lives in Italy so she would know better. But I base how crowded a place might be on hotel rates. Hotels will charge what they can get so when their prices are highest it means (to me) that it's likely they are expecting enough business to fill even at the higher rates. I was in Rome this past July and paid 99€ at Hotel Floris. I'm going to be in Rome March 27 &28 and planned to stay there again (great hotel) but for those dates - the week before Easter - the rate is €160 a night. The other hotel I stayed at a couple of summers ago (Hotel Julia, also a nice place) had equally higher rates for the March dates. As did several other hotels on my 'list' of places to check.

Unless there is some other explanation.

However, Rome is a big city so it can absorb crowds well so I wouldn't not go there just cause it might be more crowded than usual.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 05:47 AM
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If you leave on 4/2 and depart on 4/12 you only have 9 days on the ground because your day 10, 4/12, will be completely devoted to returning home. The only sightseeing you will do is on the Milan Shuttle bus or the train to Aeroporto Malpensa.

IMHO, if it were me, I would go directly to Roma and see the sights there first. You could try to work your way through jet lag on the high speed train. Once in Roma you could do whatever you have time to see. You can then begin to work your way back toward Milano.

Remember each time you change a location you will lose at least 1/2 day in transit by checking out, going to the train station, training some place, finding your hotel in a strange city, and then checking in. All of this takes time.

Florence is a great city to explore on foot, as everything is not too far from away from each other.

Finally, let me pitch Milano. We have been there many times and really like the city. It is Italy's second city and a financial/fashion center. The sights are not numerous, but first rate none-the-less. One favorite Milanese and tourist activities is to enter the Galleria Vittorio Emanuele and locate the "Il Toro." It is a small bull built into the floor made of ceramic tiles. The Milanese custom for good luck is to place the heel of your shoe on the bull's testicles and spin for good luck. It is easy to find because there are always people spinning while others take pictures. It is so popular that every few years the ceramic tiles need to be replace because a hole is worn into that area.

Go and have fun.

Buon viaggio,
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 08:11 AM
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If the OP went to Rome first, they wouldn't arrive until the afternoon or evening of Holy Thursday.

If they wanted to see Florence and/or another city in their 9-10 days, they'd probably want to leave Rome by Tuesday and then need to be back in Milan by the following Saturday night.

Going to Rome first means seeing all of Vatican City on either Good Friday or Saturday and then everything else on their Rome list on Easter Sunday, Easter Monday (but many/most things will be closed) and either Good Friday or Saturday (whichever day wasn't their Vatican City day).

Some of the same open/closed problems would apply to Florence also but without the Vatican City-at-Easter issues.

tbrenk, whatever order you decide, you should buy your train tickets in advance because of the holiday.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 08:43 AM
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Thank you everyone for so much help so quickly. Would you all recommend train travel vs. renting a car? I know you don't need a car in the cities, but would love to have one to venture around the Florence/Tuscany area.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 11:54 AM
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for cities like Florence or Rome or any large Italian city definitely the train - large areas of city centers are now off-limits to private vehicles - cars cost a lot of park, many hotels do not offer on-site parking, etc.

Take the train if going to cities - check fares on www.trenitalia.com or www.italotreno.com (not sure of correct site here) - competing train companies on the Milan-Florence-Rome line - book well in advance for nifty discounts but those are I believe non-changeable non-refundable so be sure of your train dates and times. For lots of general info on Italian trains check www.seat61.com (good info on discounted train fares); www.ricksteves.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com.

You can always IME get on trains without buying in advance if you want flexibility but you can save lots of moolah by booking far in advance.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 12:46 PM
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On those routes, the train is both faster and cheaper than a car.

March 27th and 28th are not in the week before Easter. Holy Week begins on the 29th, Palm Sunday. Hotels have been keeping the lid on prices for the past two or three years, and they may have decided that 2015 is the year to let prices rise.

Anyway, for hotel prices, July and August are not high season; most hotels consider those two months shoulder season, maybe because many people avoid Rome in the summer.

I just checked the first few hotels that came up on Booking.com, skipping those that had special discounts for particular dates, for the last week in March and the week before that, and the prices were the same for those four hotels on both dates.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 01:10 PM
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Jean, you keep giving out inaccurate information about Easter in Rome. After I'd already pointed out some inaccuracies, why didn't you at least check before saying "many/most things" would be closed for the holidays?

There are no unusual closings for Easter in Rome, except that the Vatican Museums are closed on Easter Monday. No museums in Rome are closed on Easter Sunday, except those few museums (like the Vatican Museums) that are always closed on Sundays. Many museums are always closed on Mondays, but some museums have special openings on Easter Monday because of the holiday. In other words, there are likely to be more museums open than usual that weekend.

If I were going to visit Rome, arriving on Holy Thursday, I'd visit the Vatican Museums and St. Peter's Basilica on Good Friday, and I would avoid the Colosseum area that day. Other than that, there are no special measures I would suggest.

I don't know yet which museums might have special openings on Easter Monday, but there are several places that are always open on Mondays, such as the Colosseum, Roman Forum, and Palatine Hill, the Galleria Doria Pamphilj, the Baths of Caracalla, the Villa Farnesina, and the Domus Romanae.

By the way, all national museums and archaeological sites are now free on the first Sunday of each month, all over Italy. This year Easter is on the first Sunday of April. I imagine that entries will be free on Easter, unless they decide to make an exception for that day, which is one of the biggest days in the year for museum visits.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 01:57 PM
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tbrenk:

If you want to add a portion of Tuscany to your trip, will you skip Lake Como?

I'm not sure how I would add a driving tour for a couple of days, but it certainly could put in Rome at the end of your trip, thereby skipping any possible span of Easter weekend.

I'm thinking that this thread is akin to a discussion; you can take any suggestions or ideas and make them work for you or not. If we were chatting on the phone, I would probably bring up this idea:

Leave MXP, get to Milano Centrale and train to Firenze. Stay 2 or 3 nights, depending on your interests in the city. I would want to stay 3 nights because there is so much to see.

Get a car, maybe at the airport so you don't have to deal with the ZTL, and drive to your preferred area of Tuscany. Stay 2 nights.

Drive yourself to Rome, drop off the car, stay 4 nights and 5 days, still taking that late flight back to MXP on your very last night in Italy.

It isn't easy to drop your car off in Rome, but people do it every day. We have driven in and out multiple times and often have an argument in the car, but we're still alive.

You can also pick a place near a train line to spend your time in Tuscany, dropping off your car and hopping a train to Rome. That will entail coordinating the rental car drop off with the trains. Some smaller rental offices have limited hours.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 04:49 PM
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"... why didn't you at least check before saying "many/most things" would be closed for the holidays?"

I didn't say 'closed for the holidays.' I said the Vatican Museums would be closed Easter Sunday and Easter Monday and that many/most things would be closed on Easter Monday. A large number of museums and sights are always closed on Mondays (like Galleria Borghese, Capitoline Museums, Castelo S. Angelo, Ara Pacis, Baths of Diocletian, Palazzi Altemps, Barberini, Massimo alle Terme, Venezia, Spada, etc.). But if you'd list those that, contrary to their regular schedule, will be open on Easter Monday, I'm sure the OP would appreciate the information to help them make their plans. I wasn't able to find an official website that provided this information for 2015.

Galleria Doria Pamphilj is closed on Easter Sunday and open on Easter Monday.

It's been reported in this forum that the Vatican Museums have closed early on the Saturday before Easter, although the website didn't/doesn't mention it.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 06:33 PM
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http://wikitravel.org/en/Florence

http://wikitravel.org/en/Rome

Make a list of the things that appeal in these cities.

Stick to trains, buying your tickets 120 days in advance [or fewer] on the Trenitalia web site.
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Old Nov 24th, 2014, 07:32 PM
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>>>It's been reported in this forum that the Vatican Museums have closed early on the Saturday before Easter, although the website didn't/doesn't mention it.
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Old Nov 25th, 2014, 11:41 AM
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Ok, air fare is booked so the trip is on!


We have 10 nights. We will most likely save 5 nights for Rome and one night at the end of the trip before the flight home on April 12th.

Now for the first 4 nights we want to do the Florence area don't need to stay right in Florence. Love to see the Tuscany/surrounding area. Here is my question...could we pick up a car rental at Milan airport and make our way down and drop the car off before get to Rome and then use the train for the return to Milan.

If this is doable, would we drop the car off at Rome airport?
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Old Nov 25th, 2014, 11:46 AM
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Lists of museums that will be open on Easter Monday can't be expected to appear for another few months. Things like this are almost always announced at the last minute in Italy.
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Old Nov 25th, 2014, 01:28 PM
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Do you want to jump in a car and drive immediately after your overnight flight? In a country you haven't visited before? IMO, that's doable but not necessarily advisable. Depends on how far you intended to drive that day. You could drive to Stresa on Lake Maggiore (about an hour from Malpensa) for your lake 'fix,' but that would add time to your drive to/into Tuscany the next day.

If you've decided to see Florence/Tuscany first, I would train to Florence, do a little sightseeing, spend a night or two, and pick up the car on Friday or Saturday at the Florence airport. Normally, you could drop the car at Siena, Chiusi or Orvieto and train into Rome, but that might not work on Easter Monday. I don't know. This is something you'd have to investigate. These offices are also closed on Saturday afternoons and all day on Sundays. Or, perhaps less problematic, drop the car at the Rome Airport and take the train into the city.

It's possible to base in Florence without a car and make day-trips by public transportation to several cities and towns not very far away. Fiesole, Siena, San Gimignano, Pisa, Lucca, Arezzo, Bologna...

Preparing for your driving tour of Tuscany, learn about ZTLs (Zona Traffico Limitato) which are areas within nearly every Italian city and town that are closed to cars except those with permits (residents, guests of hotels in the ZTL). If you drive into a ZTL without a permit, even by accident, you'll likely get a ticket in the mail after you get home. You can google for ZTL maps of many towns to get a general idea of boundaries, but always watch out for the posted signs. This link is a bit old, but I think the info is still good:

http://www.slowtrav.com/italy/drivin...s_speeding.htm
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