Need some help with a Europe Tour!

Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 02:45 AM
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Need some help with a Europe Tour!

Hi all! I am currently planning a 1 month tour for 3 of my friends and myself around Europe. I have just roughly sketched out our 'itinery' and the main cities we want to go. However, I have no clue regarding the transport between cities/counties as well as the time we should spend within each city. It would be great if you guys could advise me on those things. Here is list of places I want to go within the month:

Madrid, Barcelona, Rome, Milan, Prague, Munich, Amsterdam, Versailles, Paris, London, Birmingham (just a stop by), Liverpool, Edinburgh.

Regarding transport, I have roughly decided to use the Eurail pass to travel within cities, however, what is the best way to get from Barcelona to Rome?

Please give me advice on how long we should stay in each country to be able to see most of the important sights but not cramming everything together, i.e. have time to relax and enjoy ourselves.

Thank you!
leejunhui is offline  
Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 03:46 AM
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You have 13 stops in 30 days with no time allowed for moving between places. Allowing at least half a day for each move reduces your available time by at least 4 days, (Paris and Versailles are together)leaving you with 26 days and 12 stops which is far too much.

You need to decide what you must do or see and what you can leave till next time. If it was me, I'd want at least 3 nights in each place so I'd be reducing your stops from 12 to maximum 6.

Where are you flying into and out of? Don't forget that you can use "open jaw" tickets that will let you fly to and from different places.

My choices for a first trip would be:

Madrid then Barcelona
Milan then Rome
Paris then London.
Rubicund is offline  
Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 04:03 AM
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You're trying to see too much in too little time. Doable? Certainly. Recommended? Nein.

what is the best way to get from Barcelona to Rome?

Fly.
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 04:11 AM
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www.seat61.com covers the railroads and helps you find the national rail companies for buying tickets.
www.bahn.com is the single best source of railroad timetables.
www.skyscanner.com scans budget airlines that don't appear on bigger international sites.
Now get started on overdue research.
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 04:13 AM
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11 different overnights in 30 days is fine if you are comfortable with 2-3 days in each place. However, you have indicated that you don't want to cram everything together but that is probably what you will get at that pace.

2 complete days in the highlight capitals of Europe would be considered too little time by many to see most of the important sights and not feel under pressure.

You should decide if the pace works for you, or if you want to drop a few places. Milan and Liverpool/Birmingham seem like the odd ones out for number of sights available compared to your other choices. Dropping them leaves long trips to the next logical stop, though. Were you considering some overnight trains?

As from Barcelona to Rome - definitely fly. It is s consistently cheap air route, often available for well under $100.
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 04:38 AM
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Yep, too many stops I'm afraid for this to be workable. All you'll see is the inside of trains and airports if you do this. What is your motivation for wanting to visit each place? Work out which ones are most important to you. I agree with the idea of dropping your destinations from 12 to 6.
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 06:06 AM
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>

You should spend 5 days in major cities but your itinerary leaves no room for this. Basic math will answer your question as to how much time you have in each location.

30 days, minus 6 days travel between locations, divided by 12 locations gives you 2 days in each city.

How do your friends feel about this itinerary? Do they mind spending so much time on trains and planes?

You will have to carefully prioritize what you see in each place and pay attention to opening days/times so as not to be disappointed.

The best way to get from Barcelona to Rome is to fly, otherwise you're spending too much time on a train.
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 06:56 AM
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Rubicund: Thanks for the advice, after that we are probably going to cut it down to around 6-8 cities. Since we are not really museum go-ers, we should have a significantly less places to visit. We intend to fly to Madrid and fly off from Edinburgh, is it viable?

sparkchaser: Thanks for the advice! Guess we wont be doing it anymore haha.

Southam: Thanks for the extremely great links, couldn't find any of these links while searching on my own. However, is it better to buy the tickets individually or buy the Eurail pass?

Aramis: Thanks for the advice! We intend to go to Milan, Birmingham and Liverpool just to get a glimpse of the football stadiums in the respective cities, so it would just be a quick stop by. Are overnight trains a good idea? Or will it leave us too lethargic the next day?

bdsbeautyblog: We are just intending to visit the most places to make full use of our expensive air ticket from Asia. However, we should be cutting down the places to about 8, which will be more relaxed for us, thanks for the advice!

adrienne: I haven't really discussed with my friends but they are keen on visiting as many places as possible, but I think it's quality over quantity now. Guess I will need to rework the itinery!
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 07:10 AM
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I agree that you should rework your itinerary. It is too full.
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 08:20 AM
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Hi leejunhui,
This is a very common mistake that first time travelers make. There are so many wonderful places to visit and you want to make sure you don't miss anything. You are excited about seeing new and interesting places. But the fact is you can't see everything so don't kill yourself trying.

6-8 locations for a month is very doable. You will enjoy your visit much more. You will remember your trip much better. It won't just be a blur of airports and train stations.

Regarding what pass you should purchase. You need to get onto the bahn site and review point to point ticket prices. You can then evaluate if a pass is better for you. We purchased a four country pass last year simply because, after doing the math, it was a much better deal for us as opposed to point to point tickets. Even with reservation cost we came out ahead, but we had some long train trips. I think that makes a difference. A pass is generally not advised, so just spend some time doing the math.

Come back here once you have narrowed your choices down and we can be of more help with regards to the individual cities.
Michele
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 09:38 AM
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leejunhui,
i'm very happy to see that you have considered scaling down the number of places to 6-8. it's extremely tempting as michele_d pointed out to want to "see it all" but in the end you'll save yourselves the exhaustion. Devoting more time to capital cities is a smart idea. This gives you the flexibility to take a daytrip to a nearby local if you think you've seen enough or just want to get out of the city so to speak. For example, you could leave Munich for Rothenburg. The benefit of that is that you're not packing up, checking out, jockying transportation to a train station in the morning, arriving, getting to city center, checking in, unpacking, etc. You really do lose a 1/2 day each time you relocate.
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 05:36 PM
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Tailsock & Michele: Thanks for your valuable input! I will definately consider your ideas.

Just wondering, is there any site where i can see the travel times by train from city to city so that i can plan ny movements?
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 05:50 PM
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Just wondering, is there any site where i can see the travel times by train from city to city so that i can plan ny movements?

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/overseas/en/index.shtml
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Old Aug 22nd, 2013, 07:03 PM
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A Eurail pass doesn't apply to trains in the UK or to the Eurostar, the fast train between Paris and London. The only way to know if the pass is appropriate is to add up the point-to-point fares and compare. BUT if you buy point-to-point train tickets well ahead of time, you can save a lot. For example, several years ago we paid about £35 for 2nd class seats York to London. The walk-up price was about £130. (And the savings for the Eurostar on tickets bought well in advance is considerable.)

A pass gives you the flexibility to make last minute travel changes. BUT for faster trains in France, you must buy a seat reservation as well as show your pass, an additional expense. And the number of seat reservations for pass holders is limited. There may be none left when you decide to go.
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 01:41 AM
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Aramis: Thanks for the link!

Mimar: Wow thats remarkable amounts of savings. I think we should be able to follow a concrete itinery, ie be able to book the train tickets way in advance. How long in advance did you book the tickets? Is 6 months enough?
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 03:46 AM
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For train times and fares in the UK:

www.trainline.co.uk
www.nationalrail.co.uk

You also say:
"We intend to go to Milan, Birmingham and Liverpool just to get a glimpse of the football stadiums in the respective cities". I understand Milan, but Birmingham and no Manchester United?
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Old Aug 23rd, 2013, 06:23 AM
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Usually the earliest you can buy train tickets is 3 months ahead of time. Depends on the country. It may be later in Italy, for example. And the slow local trains don't take reservations. Their price is the same all the time, but you're not guaranteed a seat, only transport.
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