fluff224

We are 2 couples mid 60's that are planning a trip to Italy in Sept. We have all been to Italy at last once on tours. This trip we would like to travel on our own using trains to get from city to city. Our plans are in the early stages.
1. Fly into Milan, stay 2 nts, day trip to Lake Como.
2. Train to either Levanto or LaSpezia, stay 3 nts to experience Cinque Terre & coastal region maybe tday trip to Lucca
3 Train to Siena 3-4 nts to use as home base fo day trips to nearby towns

Not sure after that & haven't decided where we will fly out of since we may split up & travel to another country. Does this make sense? Can we do this all by train?

I would love to hear some suggestions from others that ar familiar with the area. There is of course a chance that the other couple may have some citiies other than these. I'm just trying t get a preliminary itinerary.

Thank you fellow travelers!

PalenQ

Can we do this all by train?>

easy - have done it to all - a piece of cake - from Siena buses are frequent and best to other hill towns or to Florence.

for lots on Italian trains check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com. Seewww.trenitalia.com for schedules and fares (dirt cheap for most)

Buy day passes to tour Lake Como by boat- take train Milan to Como-Nord (not main Como station) and scoot right over to the boat docks. Save a few hours for Como - a bubbling old regional city.

fluff224

Thanks for your reply, PalenQ. From your experience, do you think Siena is good to use as a home base? What about Montecatini? We are interested experiencing small towns, good food & wine, of course! As mentioned above, we have all been on tours which were a great way to see a lot of Italy. This trip we want to slow down & enjoy. Where would you go after Siena for a day or 2 before we part & go different ways.

michelhuebeli

Yes, no problem.
A bit of vocabulary:
Stazione = station. Often there is more than one. Milano Centrale is obvious, Milan has others.

Some go by names of Saints and you can't immediately tell that it is THE most important one in town. In Florence, Santa Maria Novella (SMN) is the main station, Campo di Marte and Rifredo are secondary stations.

Pisa Centrale and Pisa Rossore - Centrale has way more trains but is a few hundred yards further from the leaning tower than Rossore. However, few of the major trains stop at Rossore, if any, so it's rarely practical. Better to walk down to the bridge Ponte di Mezzo and through the old town from Centrale, past the lovely square Piazza dei Cavalieri, for a bit of historical sourroundings.

Binario = track

Tracks are usually numbered sequentially, where a Platform shares two tracks, one on either side.

In big stations like Milano Centrale, tracks are dynamically allocated, like gates in airports - there is a huge board in the main lobby where you wait for a train's "binario" number to come up, then everybody peels off in the direction of that track.

While waiting in such a circumstance, you're likely to put down bags and things and lose concentration - step through the handle loops or do something else to prevent somebody from stealing your stuff from under while you're looking up, it is too easy unless you are aware.

On major city-to-city trains, like the "Frecce" trains (means "arrows"), seats are numbered, carriages are numbered, and you are required to sit in the correct carriage in the correct seat at the time of your ticketed departure. There are displays on platforms showing the train composition, so you have an idea where to line up for the correct carriage to ome to a halt more or less in front of you.

Regional and local trains don't come with such mandatory items - as long as you don't sit in first class with a second-class ticket, you're fine. And there is nothing "second-class" about second, it's good enough for all but the most demanding.

Roundtrip is better thought of as "return ticket" (there is nothing "round" about it, while a three-or-more-points trip in Europe, for example in German, is a "roundtrip - Rundreise"). The term for a return ticket is "biglietto di andata e ritorno". If the return is not on the same day, let the agent know and the ticket will be issued accordingly.

Entry/Entrance = Entrata, Exit = Uscita

PalenQ

I've stayed in Siena and loved it but Siena is a fairly big city which I like -not some proverbial tinier Tuscany hill town like Multipulciano to the south-easy day trip by train or bus from Siena.

Montecatini-Terme could not be more different from an iconic Tuscan hill town- it is one of Italy's most thriving spa towns - for Italy spanking modern and a campus-like setting- I loved going there for a look (right next to Lucca, which an ancient large town has no hills but would make a neat base too- still ramparted and known for its many towers where the wealthy escaped the riff-raff and plagues infesting the street level town. It also has a superb Roman theatre uniquely built into old housing facades.

Above Lucca is the home town on Pinocchio - Collodi -worth a trip up there only if into Piniocchio as the town treads on the fact that 'Pinocchio' was born here'

Lucca has superb rail and bus links - just down the rails is the Leaning Tower of Pizza - oops I mean Pisa - a short short stroll from a secondary Pisa train station (S. Rossore I believe) that has hourly trains to Lucca.

So no hill town I still like Lucca as a base for those and others.

As for moving on to other countries - Switzerland jumps to mind - not that far from Como or Austria and Germany. If into seeing the Swiss Alps head for the Interlaken area - a great place to spend some days relaxing in a quiet car-less mountain village like Wengen or Murren for starters.

For a wonderful way to Switzerland from Lake Como take a train from Varenna-Esino, on the lake, to Tirano, Italy and take the ***** 5-star our of 4 stars! Bernina Pass Railway to St Moritz- an area with many neat small Alpine towns as well- or you can go onto the Interlaken area from there too.

https://www.google.com/search?q=bern...w=1745&bih=864

To me the Bernina Pass Railway is Europe's most head-turning scenic railway and I think I've been on all other candidates-it is the only real rail line that goes up and over the Alps from Italy to Switzerland or Italy -others use long long tunnels where you see very little.

There are official Bernina Express tourist-oriented trains on the line too -with super-duper panoramic observation cars.

There is an overnight train Florence to Munich and Vienna.

If going north I'd put Como at the end of your Italian list as it is much closer to those countries than Siena.

fluff224

Michelhuebeli, That's a wealth of information! Will need to keep that as a reference.
Thanks for the train tutorial!

Andrew

I stayed in Levanto twice - found it a more affordable option than staying in the Cinque Terre villages themselves. The train station is a little walk up the hill from the center of town but not bad. The town itself is nice, even if not quite the "town in the side of the hill" dramatic feeling that the five villages of the Cinque Terre offer.

I haven't actually stayed in La Spezia (changed trains there), but I understand it is not nearly as nice as Levanto as a gateway to the Cinque Terre.

PalenQ

Yes a wealth of great info from michelh - be sure to cancel your own regional train ticket before boarding -stick it in cancelling machines- michel can confirm or contradict if this is still the case as it always has been IME.

Don't think you need to do this on faster trains unless perhaps traveling with full fare fully flexible ticket?

there are hourly trains Pisa Centrale to Pisa S Rossore from Lucca too -nice day trip Leaning Tower + Lucca. Time with trains to S Rossore to maximize time.

fluff224

Andrew, I was leaning more towards LaSpezia over Levanto b/c is seemed like easier train options with less connections to Siena than Levanto. I may be over thinking it!

Thanks, PalenQ for your suggestions for where to go after Italy. I am toying with the idea of flying to Madrid for a few days & then onto Lisbon. Looks like reasonable flights from Pisa. Then quick flight to Lisbon. We flew into Lisbon last fall & onto Porto. My DH became ill & we returned home within 48 hrs. We loved what we saw & vowed to return. So, that may be the plan!

PalenQ

I was leaning more towards LaSpezia over Levanto b/c is seemed like easier train options with less connections to Siena than Levanto. I may be over thinking it!>

Not really - maybe one more change in LaSpezia but not always - from both you have to go thru Pisa -usually changing there and Empoli to get to Siena.

PalenQ

Checking www.bahn.de/en -great for all European train schedules from Levanto to Siena is about 15 minutes longer than from La Spezia and you have on most links the exact same number of train changes - 2.

So basically no difference.

bvlenci

A little clarification on the trains.

<i> Roundtrip is better thought of as "return ticket" (there is nothing "round" about it, while a three-or-more-points trip in Europe, for example in German, is a "roundtrip - Rundreise"). The term for a return ticket is "biglietto di andata e ritorno". If the return is not on the same day, let the agent know and the ticket will be issued accordingly.</i>

There really are no return (or roundtrip) tickets in Italy. You'll get two one-way tickets. There are some discounts for round trips in the same day, but only on very long trips where a round trip would be useful for a business meeting, but rarely for a tourist.

For the fast trains (Frecciarossa, Frecciargento, Frecciabianca, and Intercity), you need to reserve a specific train. There are no discounts on the day of travel, and the best discounts on popular routes are often sold out more than a month in advance. You can buy online at http://www.trenitalia.com/tcom-en if you're sure of the travel times; these tickets are not changeable or reimburseable.

The regional trains don't have reservations; you have to specify the date of travel and you can use them on any train for that day. The tickets must be stamped in a machine by the tracks just before boarding the train, as Palenq says. I wouldn't buy regional tickets online. The online tickets are much more restricted than the paper versions you buy in the station. They can't be stamped, and because of this are limited to use within a four-hour limit. They also can't be changed for any reason, whereas the ones you buy in the station can be changed up until the day before the date on the ticket.

There's not much difference between La Spezia and Levanto, as far as trains to Siena are concerned. From both places, you'd have to take at least three different trains, changing in Pisa and one other place, usually Empoli. The change at Pisa Centrale is pretty easy as all the tracks are on the same level. However, the change at Empoli may involve using an underpass to change tracks. I don't know how easy this is. Someone else may have made this trip. If there are steps, and no escalator, you might want to get a train from Pisa to Florence instead, which is all on one level. From Florence, it would be easier to take a bus to Siena. The train station in Siena is down in the valley, and Siena is on a hilltop. You'd have to take a taxi from the train station.

From Siena, the best way to visit neighboring towns is by bus. The schedules are not terribly easy to figure out. The tourist office may be able to help, or, if you tell us which towns you want to visit, maybe we can help you with the schedules.

If you want to see the scenic mid-lake section of Lake Como, staying in Como may not be your best option. The are not very frequent boats from there to the mid-lake towns, and the boat trip takes about an hour, even on the fast boats. You can also take trains from Milan Central station to Varenna, which is one of the mid-lake towns, and from there you can get single tickets or a day pass to visit the other towns. On a day trip from Milan, the day pass may not be worth the extra cost, as you may not have time to
fully take advantage of it.

If you're spending a night or two on the lake, then Como might be a better option, as it would surely have a better selection of restaurants than the mid-lake towns, which are wholly given over to tourism. Bellagio is the only place in Italy where we've ever been asked by a waiter if we could speak English!

Mimar

My introduction to the Tuscan countryside was a bus trip from the Chiusi train station to Siena's train station. This was a wonderful trip, like a magic carpet ride, and I fell in love with the scenery of southern Tuscany.

However most buses from Siena leave from the more centrally located bus station. You might want to check the schedule for buses from Siena to see if the times are convenient for you -- and not for the convenience of commuters.

The preferred alternative for sightseeing in the Tuscan countryside is driving, which gives you more freedom to see individual towns, stop to take photos, etc.

fluff224

Thanks bvienci, for your travel tips. Once again, good info for me to process! I especially will take note of the differences n the train stations in Pisa. Others have noted that driving is probably the best way to see the Tuscan countryside. That hasn't been completely ruled out at this point. May need to look more closely at that option. Know that parking is problematic in the CT towns. Would either Levanto or LaSpezia be the same?

bvlenci

You have to be careful about driving and parking in thd centers of any Italian towns. For day trips into cities or towns with little parking, you can park the car at a train station or near a bus stop and take a train or bus to town. Trips to places like the Cinque Terre for more than one day can be placed at the beginning or end of your stay, and you can rent the car just for the days when it would be useful.

PalenQ

I have driven the Tuscan countryside and found it fatiguing in height of tourist season at least - very slow going with caravans and trucks and such on sinuous two-lane roads -parking in hill towns is problematic often with a long uphill walk.

Keep you daily goals to a minimum -I found during the long noon siesta driving was great with most locals and Italians off the roads which I had to myself.

When driving you can often not really see much if the driver - buses go everywhere and I did not really see many places I would have wanted to stop.

fluff224

So, it seems getting to Siena requires multiple trains & a bus. Would it be better to hire a driver to take us from either LaSpezia or Lucca to Siena? Just not sure how the other couple would feel about buses. Maybe Siena isn't the right Tuscan town for us to use as home base??

PalenQ

Any Tuscan hill town as a base will rely on buses not trains- Lucca can be a train base but is not a hill town.

Don't be scared off by trains La Spezia-Siena -changes of trains are a snap at not huge stations -no need to take a bus for either Siena or Lucca.

And SITA buses are very comfy too and dirt-cheap like regional trains.

Lucca has just one change of train I think - in Pisa S Rossore - a small station from one platform to another -very very easy -train would I say be a hundred bucks or more cheaper and really a very easy thing to do.

fluff224

Is there any difference in what site you use to book tickets? Are the prices comparable? I was searching on Trentalia, Bahn & Italiarail. Italiarail was easier to navigate. Trentalia didn't recognize LaSpezia as a valid departure?? I see on Italiarail 2 stops from LaSpezia to Siena or 1 if leaving from Lucca. You're right, PalenQ, sounds easy.!

I think I've got the framework of a good plan. Just need to get together with the other couple & share my research.

fluff224

Another question....Milan has numerous stations how do I find the station that goes to LaSpezia?