branderson925

I've been daydreaming about making a trip back to Europe. I have a 5 week itinerary planned and then an additional 10 days I've been considering adding on) I'm celebrating graduating from undergrad even if it costs me a good bit of cash. My interests include history, art, architecture, wine & beer, meeting people, going out, sports, hiking, cycling). I'm looking to do a good mix of exploring cities and spending some time relaxing in different natural settings. As you may be able to see I love wine and am looking to spend some time doing some tours of some regions where my favorite wines come from. I appreciate your advice in telling me what you might change. I lived in Europe for almost 6 months but that was 2 years ago and I was only 21. Thanks in advance

Fly In: London
5 Days - London + Bath Day Trip
3 Days - Loire Valley + Day in Nantes
3 Days - Burgundy + Day in Dijon
2 Days - Lyon
3 Days Munich
3 Days - Venezia +Vineyard trip (Amarone process if possible)
3 1/2 Days - Parma, Modena, Bologna
2 1/2 Days - Tuscany (Looking to do a Brunello tour if possible)
-->Note, I studied in Florence and have been to a lot of Tuscany but am looking for recs for a small day trip (I've seen Siena, Lucca, Pisa, San Gimignano) Considering Livorno for a day or Maremma
-->This is a short amount of time for a reason, just looking to relax a bit
3 Days - Piemonte (1 Day in Torino/Rest of time in Barolo/Barbaresco territory)
------------------Next Leg is extremely subject to change----------------------------------
2 Days - San Sebastian
2 Days - Bilbao
2 1/2 Days - Rioja
3 1/2 Days - Madrid
Fly Home

Add in 7 Days for Travel/Emergency/Laundry. Already accounted for some of the smaller travel periods in some of the trips.

45 Days

What would you cut? Do I need a couple more days allotted for traveling? I'm a bare-bones traveler and don't mind doing some overnight travel options or odd hour flights between places. I'm all about seeing a lot of places without frills.

janisj

Actually,if you are building in add'l travel time I honestly don't think you need to cut anything.

I personally would want an extra day or two in London . . . But maybe you've spent a lot of time there before.

Robert2533

2 days in Lyon will not be enough to enjoy some of France's best cuisine.

mamcalice

You're skipping Paris?!! And Rome? Perhaps you spent a lot of time there when you lived in Europe. I like your trip otherwise.

PalenQ

I think 4 full days in London is enough for the average traveler - are you going by train - to cover that itinerary in that time frame would seem to dictate so.

Munich seems to be an outlier - detour from Lyon to Italy - maybe - for history or architecture I think Salzburg, an easy day trip from Munich would be a great one for you - you can take an overnight train from Munich or Salzburg to Italy and of course Rome too would fit your requirements.

You can also take an overnight ferry from Livorno to Barcelona.

anyway to get a great low down on European trains and railpasses which if you do all that by train is a no-brainer IMO - then check out these superb sittes: www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.ricksteves.com.

branderson925

I've never been to London; I have even to Paris and Rome (two visits while I was living in Italy).

My stay in Paris was brutally short (2 1/2 days) so maybe I could add that. I know I could easily take a day on to London but I want to focus more on Italy and France that I haven't seen. I figure I'll fly into London as it's a common jump off point, spend sometime there and then move along.

I am looking for recommendations along the way given my interests. I like a well balanced trip with focus on lots of different, exciting things. I'd be open to spending a whole day on a hiking trip or using one of my days just exploring a quaint town along a beach somewhere.

dwdvagamundo

Cut Munich and substitute Paris and perhaps some time in Provence. We stayed in Arles for about a week--used it as a base--and found it very interesting.

If you do that, go to Torino next and Venezia last in your swing through Italy.

If it were my trip, I'd substitute Naples and the Amalfi Coast for Spain, but it's not. Or else I'd cut Italy out entirely as you've been there before and spend the time in Spain--Barcelona, Sevilla, Toledo, Madrid. . .and then Basque Country. In the time you have, you should be able to get a very good look at Spain.

tomboy

I thought Budapest was interesting, from an architectural perspective.

PalenQ

Vincena is a short train ride from Venice - and is known for its Palladian architecture:

very unique city in many regards.

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/712

PalenQ

There are also boat trips from Venice and Padua along a main canal laced with Palladian villas.

PalenQ

2 Days - San Sebastian
2 Days - Bilbao
2 1/2 Days - Rioja
3 1/2 Days - Madrid>

Many folks find Barcelona much more to their liking than a huge busy more modern looking Madrid.

To me Madrid is worth about a day or two but has some superb day trips - like to Toledo, which has some of the greatest mudejar architecture in its churches of any place in Spain.

branderson925

Bumpity bump. Looking in to modifying but would like some different perspective. This trip is looking like early March > April

jpie

If you are thinking March April then I would be tempted to start my trip in the warmer climate areas and then work my way up to the cooler areas. And given the length of your trip and the ground you want to cover, I would also look at making it open jaw-fly in Rome for example and out London.

In terms of wine areas in France I personally prefer Bordeaux to Burgundy and I think you will have better weather there that time of year as well. But of course if you love wine then you will want to go to your favorite regions.

sandralist

Bologna can be an expensive place to stay in spring, with lots of trade fairs. Book early for the best deals, or consider staying in Modena, 20 minutes away. Ravenna is one of Europe's most spectacular art and history sights, so given your interests, you might want to include it.

In late March the huge Vinitaly expo is in Verona (March 22-25)

http://www.vinitaly.com/VisitorsArea/
http://vinconnect.com/uncategorized/...s-on-visiting/

If you are traveling by train in Italy, your trip might be a bit more efficient if you went to Tuscany right after Venice and visited Emilia Romagna on your way to Piemonte. You need to check out the train schedules in detail to see what works best for you.

Rather than Livorno itself, consider the Bolgheri wine area, and you might be able to find a tour out of Livorno to do that. Another possibility, would be to look in the Chianti-producing area northeast of Florence in Mugello, which would be easy to tour from Florence, or the heart of the Chianti itself. But if you have extra days, it might make sense to go to VinItaly if tasting and talking to producers trumps looking at vines and cellars.

tumblingweed

Looks like an amazing trip. Have you considered flying open jaw, like into Rome and home from London? Not sure where you live, assuming the US. You could see areas of interest in Italy, working your way to the northern part. There is a cable car you can take up into the Alps, ending up in Chamonix (not far from Bordeaux I think). If you're traveling light. Then tour about France working your way south to Spain.

To maximize time, sometimes you could take later evening trains on to your next destination rather than "wasting" daylight by traveling in the mornings.

PalenQ

To maximize time, sometimes you could take later evening trains on to your next destination rather than "wasting" daylight by traveling in the mornings.>

not sure if this means overnight trains but it should and these can save time and money on a hotel - if you are not a light sleeper that is - I've taken zillions and no problem but others arrive wiped out and that is a problem - there is always a modicumof noise on night trains.

branderson925

Thanks for the advice. Was starting to think about rough estimates at budget. I was wondering if living on $100 Euro/day would be reasonable. This is not including flights. But does include a few inner-city buses/trains when traveling.
Let me know if I'm completely crazy

dwdvagamundo

Even 100 Euro a day is unrealistic. A very basic place to stay alone will easily cost that. Triple it at least.

PalenQ

$100 Euro/day would be reasonable. This is not including flights. But does include a few inner-city buses/trains when traveling.
Let me know if I'm completely crazy>

No but you have to stay in hostels or youth hotels which for your age is great - great meeting places - hostels now often have bars, etc on site - if you get a Eurail Youthpass that could allow a lot of transportation at a fixed low cost - eat out of supermarkets or at hostels - supermarkets have delis and not just canned meals - booze in any cafe, etc can be really expensive but that is an optional expense.

I am an older traveler - much older and stay in cheap hotels and my daily expenses are lower than $140/day so it can be done.