AmandaStephenson

Hi Everyone,

I'm needing some assistance please on our Italy itinerary for this August! We will be arriving from Zermatt, Switzerland. I have a plan but wondered if I could get some insight on if this is a good route to take, or is there a better way?? I have done a lot of research and have a good idea of what we want to see, so I'm more after logistic advice and whether the plan works or if there is a better option in terms of how to travel to places and also the order I am seeing them. The only things that are fixed are the following:
* We are entering Italy from Zermatt. We have confirmed accommodation here so this can't be changed
*We are ending our Italy journey in Rome as we have a flight to Split Croatia from here.

This is the plan so far!

Day 1: Travelling from Zermatt----------Lake Como. Staying in Argegno. Via train it seems to be over a 7hr journey.... so therefore I wonder what the roads are like to drive ourselves between these places instead? Driving seems to be more like a 3-3.5hr journey not including any stops we wish to make. We have parking at our accommodation at Argegno, so would just be after advice on whether it is best to drive or deal with the transfers and take trains & Busses.

Day 2 & 3: Argegno and exploring other towns around Lake Como:

Day 4: Travelling via car from Argegno-------------La Spezia (Cinque Terra Coast) = 3.5hrs. Staying somewhere on the coast where there is parking available

Day 5: Exploring up and down the Cinque Terra Coast either via car or train? Can anyone tell me the best way to explore this region as we will have a car but can park it at our accommodation and then take trains to where we need to go if this is a lot easier.

Day 6: Driving from La Spezia------------------to somewhere around Tuscany
On this day we were planning an easy going drive exploring the small towns close to Florence. How are the roads from the coast to these areas? Would this be the best way to see a few towns, stopping where we wish, or should we leave the car at La Spezia and take a train direct to 1 or 2 towns?

Also I'm after any tips on somewhere nice to stay overnight in this region before heading to Florence the next day!

Day 7: Drive (Or train) from our accommodation to Florence & drop off the car on the way f we still have this.

Day 8 & 9: Florence

Day 10: Take the train from Florence-------------Venice in the morning.

Day 11: Venice

Day 12: Train from Venice-------Rome

Day 13, 14 & 15: Rome

Day 16: Flying out to Split from Italy.

We are both in our early 30's. Quite happy to fly around like this to see what we can as this will be our first and only trip to Europe before Kiddies! We have done plenty of road trips overseas, and are ok travelling large distances when needed. My hubby is also a very good driver, and has mastered driving on the opposite side of the road (to us in Australia!) so I'm confident we will be ok.

I look forward to your responses and am flexible in changing the order of places around if this works better!

dreamon

I would be tempted to skip Cinque Terre as it means you are zigzagging around a lot. Add the time to some of your other destinations or substitute Lake Garda for Cinque Terre. Perhaps Lake Como-Venice-Florence-Rome (all by train, hiring a car in Tuscany if you wish although not essential). A car in Cinque Terre will be a handicap if you are just visiting the five villages. If you don't have it already train timetables can be found at trenitalia.com. There are a number of different routes from Zermatt (one of which includes a bus between Lake Lugano and Menaggio if it still runs) so check out the alternatives but all seem fairly lengthy. Have a wonderful trip.

jamikins

Picking up a car in Switzerland and dropping it off in Italy is probably very expensive so check the costs of that.

neckervd

Zermatt - Argegno by car:
arrive at Taesch/Zermatt by car, because there is no car rental at Zermatt.
Park your car at Taesch during your stay at Zermatt (you will have to pay for).
Zermatt - Taesch by shuttle train: 10 min
Tasch - Simplon Pass - Gallarate - Maslianico - Argegno: 5 hrs without any intermediate stop. Road toll 75 EUR, fuel 27 EUR.
Zermatt - Argegno by public transport: about 6 hrs, change at Brig, Milan and Como.

Argegno - La Spezia - Southern Tuscany - Venice - Rome - Split may not be the best itinerary.
Drive either Argegno - Venice - La Spezia - Florence/Tuscany - Rome
or
Arcegno - La Spezia - Florence/Tuscany - Rome - Venice
Flight fares Venice - Split for August start around 40 EUR

buzzcolin

Sounds like a great trip but you don't really need a car in Argegno. We spent a week there in October last year and travelled very successfully on the buses and ferries. Argegno is so small with lots of narrow cobbled streets, one bakery, a fruit shop and a small general dealer. Absolute Bliss!! We flew into Milan and then took the local train to Como and a bus to Argegno. It was very easy and we are both in our 60's. Just my opinion but I would go from Argegno via Como and Milan to Venice. It is on the same train line. You will also not need a car in Venice. More of a nuisance! After Venice you could then hire your car and make your way back to La Spezia and then head for Pisa / Florence and south towards Rome. As the others have said you could do most of your trip on trains and just use the car to tour Tuscany. Better to position yourself in a small town in Tuscany and then travel to different villages every day. Whatever you decide, hope you have fun - very envious.

AmandaStephenson

Thanks everyone! Some great insight and tips. I think I will look at changing the itinerary around and will see what works best!

Yes the car situation is a hard one, as to get to some places it seems to be the best way to travel, but then we are stuck with it in places like La Spezia where we really don't need one. I may go back to the drawing board on this one Thanks everyone.

Buzzcolin- The only reason we thought of having a car is that the B&B we are staying in seems to be quite a way up the hill behind Argegno... The host of the B&B did say it would be a lot easier to get to and from the villa via car. But then your right, We could easily take ferries and buses and this would mean not worrying about parking each day.
Maybe we just get fitter so we can hike up the hill to our accommodation! hehe



neckervd thanks for the suggestions. I actually did originally have us flying from Venice to Split, but the flight times meant we were not getting there at a good time and some of them weirdly had a stop over! We are having to be on a ship for "Sail Croatia" the next day, so were a bit restricted with when we could arrive! Thanks for your other itinerary info though, I will ponder this and maybe change some things around

You all have been a huge help! Can't wait to explore Italy!

kybourbon

>>>Tasch - Simplon Pass - Gallarate - Maslianico - Argegno: 5 hrs without any intermediate stop. Road toll 75 EUR, fuel 27 EUR.<<<

Is a vignette needed in addition to the tolls?

Jean

Investigate the cross-border drop surcharge. It can be very steep.

Six hotels over 15 nights sounds like a lot of moving around. I'd eliminate that one night stay in Tuscany between the CT and Florence. Get an early start and return the car late that evening at the Florence airport. Lucca and/or Montecatini Terme would be easy stops. The extra day/night in Florence might give you a chance to take a day trip to Siena by bus or to Bologna or Arezzo by train.

AmandaStephenson

Ok, so I believe I have a new plan, based on your help! Thank you very much everone

dreamon, as Cinque Terra is on the top 5 of my "Must See' List, I have had to keep this. I get what your saying, and it would be a lot easier to skip it but I think the new plan will mean a little less strenuous travel and so may work a little better. And thanks, I have seen that website for the iteneraries. This will be a great help when I am ready to book these!

I am yet to decide how to get from Zermatt-----Como but I will look into your suggestions. So from there:

Argegno------Venice via car. I'm thinking we will just hire it for the day as the trip via car is 3hrs, while a train trip is over 6hrs and seems to go quite south to Bologna. As we only have 2 x nights in Venice I am keen to get there as early as we can to start exploring.
Drop car off at Venice

Then Venice-------Cinque Terra via train. This saves me having to hire another car and leave it somewhere near La Spezia.
Can anyone recommend a good area to stay at when on this coast? We are obviously wanting to walk or train to all the 5 x villages, but what is a good base for the 2 x nights? It would obviously need to be close to a train station so we can get there easily from Venice.


Third trip: Cinque Terra----Tuscany. Think we will try hire a car as we do want to drive there and around the region.
Again, any recommendations on where we can stay in Tuscany as we are pretty flexible here?

Fourth: Tuscany-------Florence. We will dump the car on the way or outside of the city so we are not dealing with this.

Then lastly: Florence----- Rome via train (which seems to be faster then a car!)

Any more tips/adjustments are welcomed of course. I don't know why I didn't think of this route before!

AmandaStephenson

Ah Jean I just saw your response. So you mean to instead just do a day trip from Florence around this area?

Jean

You need to investigate what all of those car rentals will cost. Single day rentals, one-way rentals, cross-border rentals. I see lots of additional charges.

Also, when comparing driving times to train journeys, if you're using Google Maps you need to add more time to every driving estimate as Google is known to underestimate and in August you could encounter heavy traffic. Also add time for picking up and returning cars which takes a lot more time than boarding a train. FYI, there is no car rental agency close to Argegno. You'd have to go to Como.

There are several day trips possible from Florence using only public trans. Having a car will allow you to explore more area, but you can see a lot of towns without a car. Fiesole, Montecatini Terme, Lucca, Pisa, Siena, San Gimignano, Certaldo, Bologna, Arezzo.

Have you checked lodging availability in the CT in your budget range?

dreamon

Just a quick note... Como to Venice is under 4hrs by train - not sure why you would go via Bologna as that's quite out of the way.

For Cinque Terre, consider staying in Levanto which is not one of the five villages but close by. Not as picturesque but very convenient. Keep an eye on the impending changes which require tickets to visit CT (don't think they are implemented yet and not sure how serious they are about this).

AmandaStephenson

dreamon: Again, this is just the route Google maps gave me. Weirdly there was no option to head across through Verona... I am sure once I look at the actual booking websites this will be more accurate. I can definitely do a 4hr train journey, that seems perfect!

Ah I have herd good things about Levanto, thanks I will look at this before any other town. Ah that would be very cheeky of them to try charge for tourists to go there! I'll keep an eye out for this but fingers crossed we can get away with not paying.

Jean. I agree, If I could minimise how many times I need to hire a car, that would be the best option. If I can take the train to Venice, then at least I am not having to worry about this trip.

Good point about Google, and yes I had allowed time to pick up and drop off the car and thanks, yes I was expecting to hire a car from Como. I know Argegno is too small to have that kind of facility. (which is the charm of the place!)

Indeed, I have checked CT accommodation against our budget. as we will be going with Airbnb there are actually quite a few options. Also it's handy being mid week as process seem to sky rocket on the weekend on some of the booking sites.
I will look into Levanto as this may also be cheaper.

Ok, good to know about Florence! I will investigate this next once I have finialised Venice & CT.

dreamon

The tickets for Cinque Terre are not about raising money but more to manage the huge number of visitors who risk damaging a fragile environment. Who knows what will actually eventuate.

neckervd

To Kybourbon: the vignette is included in the 75 EUR

neckervd

"Argegno------Venice via car. I'm thinking we will just hire it for the day as the trip via car is 3hrs, while a train trip is over 6hrs and seems to go quite south to Bologna"

Vediamo un po (let's have a look):
for example:
Arcegno dp by bus 16.01 - Como San Giovanni ar 16.35, dp by train 17.13 - Milano C 17.50/18.05 - Venezia Mestre ar 20.28

neckervd

" I am yet to decide how to get from Zermatt-----Como"

May be by train, for example
Zermatt dp 13.13 - Visp 14.21/14.32 - Milano C 16.37/17.10 - Como ar 17.46

AmandaStephenson

neckervd: Clearly google maps has no idea how long the trains take! Thank you for investigating this for me. Looks like via train is just as easy (actually easier as we don't have to waste time picking up and dropping off a car)

Good plan with the train to Como from Zermatt. Again, then we won't have to worry about a car. I would rather only get the car when we have to. Which sites are you getting the times from?

Thanks Dreamon. I have had a look and I think tourists need to buy a pass for 20 euro for 2 x days p/p which not only covers unlimited train travel but also the walks. I am happy to purchase this

Now that I have a better plan I can start locking in accommodation and trains. Am I best to pre book my trips to Venice and then to La Spezia, and then to Florence? Or do these trains run often enough that we can just turn up on the day?

And lastly, It seems some Tuscan towns are west or just south of Florence, and others are quite a way south towards Rome.... So now what I'm after is recommendations of a good place to stay in this region and then I can work out if I go from La Spezia to Florence or Tuscany 1st!

Thanks again everyone, you have all been a HUGE help!

dreamon

In Italy, there are two broad classes of train services: regionale (no advantage in pre-booking and no seat reservations); and frecce trains (which are faster and require seat reservations). With regard to buying train tickets, if you buy in advance for the fast trains you can generally get cheaper tickets but they will usually have cancellation conditions which makes it expensive if you change your plans. If you don't want to pre-book, just check how often the trains go and therefore how long you'd have to wait until the next train if the one you want is full. I've rarely seen trains absolutely full but then I've never travelled in August when Europeans are on holidays so don't know what it will be like then. For regionale tickets, they must be validated prior to travel using the punch machine on or near the platform. Check seat61 website for everything you could ever want to know about travelling by train.

Italian trains: trenitalia and italotreno websites
Swiss trains: sbb

neckervd

"So now what I'm after is recommendations of a good place to stay in this region and then I can work out if I go from La Spezia to Florence or Tuscany 1st!"

La Spezia is a few miles from the border of Tuscany (10 min by train).
Florence is the capital of Tuscany.