> We ... enjoy new experience with different culture and moderate hiking for scenic views, travel with low-moderate budget at moderate pace.

With these interests, you might look into the Rough Guide and/or Lonely Planet guide books.

>a trip to Turkey in late May

Most of my time in this area was in May and it was wonderful -- lots of blooming flowers, very pleasant temperatures, and only a few scattered showers.

> flight to Istanbul 3 nights ...
flight back to Istanbul 3 nights then flight home.

I'm not sure how many days that leaves you for Istanbul itself. FWIW, I was glad to have 5 full days (which I filled from morning to night); I could easily have enjoyed another day or two.

> What should I be aware of if driving around Pamukkale and Aegean coastal area? ... Which scenic or unique local site I must not miss in this trip?

You might find some useful information in my trip report - just click on my name to find it.

Enjoy!

Thank you kja for your quick response. Yes, I happened browsed your 25 days' Turkey report, I was overwhelmed by the places you visited... did you drive to any beach site?
Out of all the places you had visited, besides of Istanbul, could you recommend 3-5 most scenic sites to me?

I used to love the travel book 'Travel Smart' series that it gave you star rate 1 to 4 and length of the time for each place so you'd have a quick idea as a first-time visitor for what to see within limited days. Pity it's no longer in service. I'll check the book you mentioned as a reference.

Yes, I'm planning to stay in Istanbul for 6 days or more...I need to make a detailed plan for it after I get the general route layout.

Any first-hand input is valuable to me. Thanks again!

Glander

Kapıkırı on Lake Bafa would be a good place for a couple of nights. A morning's hike on the slopes of Mount Latmos to the monastery and frescoes there is very scenic. And prehistoric cave paintings too!

There's a good article about it here:
http://www.turkeyfromtheinside.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=254:herakla-ad-latmos&catid=42:places-to-go

Here's a view of the lake and my guide, Yusuf - http://www.herostratics.com/Stuff/YusufOzel2.jpg

> did you drive to any beach site?

Not in the areas you are planning to visit. And I'm not a beach person, so I only spent a few minutes at the beaches at which I did stop (Adrasan and Patara).

> Out of all the places you had visited, besides of Istanbul, could you recommend 3-5 most scenic sites to me?

I was stunned by the scenery almost everywhere I went, and was glad to see a variety of types of scenery. I honestly couldn't pick out a subset to recommend - sorry!

> I used to love the travel book 'Travel Smart' series that it gave you star rate 1 to 4 and length of the time for each place so you'd have a quick idea as a first-time visitor for what to see within limited days. Pity it's no longer in service

It is hard to find guidebooks that help plan how much time to spend in any one place, isn't it? But there is at least some helpful info out there: I think Frommer's usually gives an idea of what to do with visits of various lengths, at least for major destinations (e.g., Istanbul). Frommer's and Fodor's both give stars to indicate higher priority sites at each destination. The Rough Guide and Lonely Planet each give short lists of high priority sites in each region of a country. Eyewitness Guides usually have regional maps that highlight some of the most highly recommended sites. I don't think there is a Michelin Green Guide for Turkey, but it usually provides ratings of places and at least some information about how much time to plan for specific things. (I'm always glad to find a fair amount of agreement between sources, and also intrigued by the differences.)

Thanks kja. Is driving manageable without GPS? ...It's another concern for me to choice where to stay or stop.

Glander

> Is driving manageable without GPS?

I don't see why not, assuming you have a good map. And when I was there, some parts of Turkey weren't covered by my GPS system, so even if you have GPS, I would strongly recommend taking a map as a backup. Major roads in the areas I visited were well signed; I don't know about the areas you'll be visiting.

Glander, I did a Turkey trip 3 years back. And due to a few Fodorites who helped me plan my itinerary, it has been the most memorable trip of my life.
Cappadocia is a must. Don't miss it at any cost. It is the most unique place in the world.
You can stay in Istanbul for 2 nights.
Take a flight to Kayesari. (You get cheap flights on Pegasus airlines)
You should rent a car at Cappadocia.
Stay at a cave hotel at Goreme for 2-3 nights.

Take an overnight bus to Pamukkale. Very comfortable.
You can see it in half a day and proceed to Selcuk. Or stay for a night there and take a bus to Selcuk ( 4 hours)

Within Selcuk, you don't need any car to see Efesus and other sites.
You can rent a car after 2 days and go south to see beautiful places on the agean sea and come back to Selcuk. Take a bus or train to Izmir to board a flight back to Istanbul.
Stay for 2 nights and fly out.

I have posted my trip report only on the cappadocia part of this tour. You may find it helpful. You can click on my name and look for it.

Driving in Turkey is a pleasure. I come from a country where we have right hand drive cars. But was never uncomfortable.

We had a day free at Selcuk. So we drove to Mili national park. It was one of the most rewarding day. A free day at Istanbul was also very rewarding.
These days with a lot of free time, actually help us know the culture and how the locals live their life. It's lot of fun.

I am totally in love with Turkey. I think it is one of the very few countries with so much of varied cultural and geographical diversity to offer...Only other place to match would be India...
Do let me know if you need any further details...

We had maps and never lost our way. Didn't feel the need for GPS

Thanks so much for your time, kja and Paragkash.

Paragkash, you made me rethink my second thought of skipping the Cappadocia. I knew it's a highlight, but I was hesitated by the exhausting long bus ride. If I go for it, I'd cutoff the days around Aegean coastal area (considering three separated areas in the trip: Istanbul, Pamukkale and Aegean coastal area, Cappadocia). I'll have to read more of your trip and see for the details.

Questions in my mind for now:

Would I get lost, danger or permission problem without a guide for those well-known sites (considering we'd pay more attention on photography than story-telling, taking our own pace to stop at anytime, take no more than 4 hours' hiking if we do)?

Are there any free local maps provided in hotels or the local tourist office (are there any?)?

I did not feel a need for a guide in any of the places I visited in Cappadocia, except for Kaymakli, the underground city that I chose to visit; if you do visit one of the underground cities, I think it would be hard to know what you are seeing without a guide.

There is a schematic tourist map of the Cappadocia area that seemed to be widely available at tourist destinations in the area. Still, I would urge you to bring small maps of the areas you plan to visit with you just in case. You will find them in good guide books.

Got it. Thanks kja.

Dear Glander,
Never miss out capadoccia ! is fantastic place to be ! Good luck !

Glander, there is no need for a guide. I can give you a car rental's number who will pick you up from the airport, drop you to your hotel at Goreme and leave the car with you for 24 hours. He will also pick up the car the next day. All this for a cost of an airport pick up by any hotel. I paid 85 TL.

It is a photographer's delight. I have a Nikon D 7000 now. Had a cannon then. I went berserk. If you check any photos on pbase or flicr; you will realise what you will miss. I have also written where you should be at which times for photography. I have a map with directions and order of sites to be seen. I can share it with you. We drove for one day and the next day we just wandered around in the valley. It is totally unprotected live museum. there are no gates, guards. Several habitats, churches, temples in the tufa cones. Wandering around in the caves was the best experience.

In fact, Cappadocia is so small, compact and laid back. You must wander at your own pace. We spent 1 night and 2 days there. Took a night bus on day 2 to Pamukkale. Very comfortable.

I will tell you my experience. I reached there by 6.45 - 7 am. Spent some quality time till 8-8.30. After that the tour groups came and it was all full. Then we went to the ancient city of Heirapolis. Wandered for some time. If you manage to reach back to the town centre by 11.30 am, you get a connecting bus to Selcuk. If you take a later bus, it goes via Izmir and takes time. next direct bus to Selcuk is at 4 pm.
I thought 4 hours were good enough. But you can take your pick.
You can see blue sea, even lost cities and dilapidated monuments in many countries in the world. But there is only one Cappadocia in the world. Something similar is on the Moon and Mars.
DON'T MISS CAPPADOCIA AT ANY COST.

"Cappadocia is so small, compact" - I have to disagree with you there, Paragkash.

"Cappadocia covers an area of approximately 5,000 square kilometers" - National Geographic:
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/articles/cappadocia-facts/

Glander, if you need any maps or car rental's contact nos. which aren't available on the internet, you can e mail me on paragkash@yahoo.com...
Wish you a great trip.
i am sure that you will fall in love with turkey, the way I did...

If you're set on including Cappadocia, I'd suggest leaving your time in Istanbul to the end of the trip and fly directly to Cappadocia at the beginning. Spend 3 or 4 nights there and then fly to Izmir for 3-4 nights there (Selcuk and Pamukkale, etc), and then your final 5-6 nights in Istanbul.

Check out Turkish Airlines for flights from Istanbul to Nevsehir or Kayseri for Cappadocia, also Pegasus and AtlasJet flights to Kayseri.

From kayseri to Izmir there are Pegasus and SunExpress flights. And from Izmir back to Istanbul practically every domestic airline does that route, you're spoilt for choice.

This is a pretty standard triangular tour that many tourists follow. An alternative would be the "figure-of-eight" which means less time in Istanbul - 3 nights in Cappadocia, a week driving from Izmir to Antalya (via Ephesus, Pamukkale and the Lycian coast), and then 4 nights in Istanbul.

Yes, that may ease my mind off the long bus ride, but at a cost of the extra route to Selcuk and Pamukkale. In which case I'd have to skip the Antalya and around, pick some similar coastal site not too far from Selcuk and Pamukkale instead.

Say, 2 nights in Istanbul after a long flight from USA, then fly to Kayseri, 3 nights in Goreme, then flight from Kayseri to Izmir, rent a car (or bus?) to Pamukkale 2 nights, driving (or bus?) to a beach site 2 nights (which one relatively 'unique'/'Turkey-ish'?) , flight back from Izmir to Istanbul, another 2 nights there before flight home...

Thank you, Paragkash and Croesus.

Now I felt sort of less 'foggy' for my trip itinerary...though still a lot to fill-in...

> 3 nights in Goreme

Would that mean 2 or 3 or 4 days in Goreme?

> Say, 2 nights in Istanbul after a long flight from USA, another 2 nights there before flight home...

How many days does that give you in Istanbul?

I definitely recommend renting a car at Izmir airport to be returned at Antalya airport for the flight back to Istanbul (loads of flights from Antalya to Istanbul, again spoilt for choice on domestic airlines) - if that's within your budget.

It's a nice drive from Izmir airport-Ephesus-Pamukkale-Fethiye-Kas-Antalya, easily done in a week.

I still think your original plan was pretty good, you're going to love Turkey so much that you'll be back. So, don't rush it too much this first time. My first time was 5 weeks hitch-hiking in '82, and I've been back many times.

I guess the way to do it is to decide your itinerary and then immediately book all the flights. Then fill in the gaps.

I agree with everyone that Cappadocia is a must see area. It has sites that you will not see anywhere else (Love Valley is so cool). I flew to Nevsehir cheap...cheap...cheap...about $40 one way on Turkish Airlines form IST. Spent 3 nights in Goreme. I took a tour each day to different areas and underground cities. The tours ran $50 for all day including a wonderful lunch. Cappadocia was the highlight of my three week vacation to Turkey, Italy & Greece last October.

Sounds another option... car from Izmir to Antalya and flight back to Istanbul... In which case, I'll need to study the route with a good map for Izmir airport-Ephesus-Pamukkale-Fethiye-Kas-Antalya... a bit hesitated for the road finding by reading that highway was dangerous and getting in/out the big town was troublesome...

I could add 1-2 night in Istanbul if better...

3 nights in Goreme, for two full days there, I guess...need to cutoff one? ...depends on the arrival time and departure time...

> 3 nights in Goreme, for two full days there

If you do make Goreme part of this trip, I strongly recommend at least 2 full days. Three full days would, IMHO, be much better.

I flew from Istanbul to Nevsehir very early. I was in Goreme by 9A. Full day to tour!

I agree with Croesus, you decide your itinerary and book the air tickets ASAP. Actually that's the most tricky part. What to chose and what to leave, how many days at which places.

What I mean by the compactness of Cappadocia is that the touristy area is fairly compact, kind of conglomeration of a few villages, and can be easily covered by car in a day. Once you do that by car as an orientation tour, you can decide which part you would like to spend more time at. I feel Pashabagi has the most stunning forms for photography and if one is short on time, should spend more time here. Wandering at Goreme Valley was more rewarding than seeing the open air Museum.

If I was skeptical about overnight us travel, I would skip Pamukkale. It is a wonderful place, but I wouldn't do a to and fro journey from Selcuk for it and spend an entire tiring day. Plus, as a photographer, I would like to see the sunrise there as the white hill is over burnt in photos and crowded too in the day. You need to catch it in soft light. I think the sun sets at the back and one cannot take a photo of a setting sun with the white hill. (Not too sure about this)

There are more picturesque places around selcuk. Renting a car at Izmir airport is a good option, but if you are too much concerned about the routes, You can reach selcuk and rent a car only for 2 days instead of all 4. Selcuk & Ephesus can be done on foot, as you get a drop from the hotel owners at the upper gate and you can walk downhill. My hotel owner suggested correctly to avoid Ephesus in the 1st half and visit after 2.30pm to avoid crowd that comes in the morning from the cruise that is docked at Kusadasi. It is true. But you get the wrong sun light for the most famous structure that one sees in all the brochures "The Library" in the 2nd half. You need to click it early morning.

I took a car for 2 days and went down to the agean coast to see several ruins and sites and beaches, but didn't stay there for the night and made selcuk as my base and did day trips. This made my life much easier, as I wasn't packing and unpacking. Most importantly, I was familiar with the area on day 1 and after that my hotel owner Juju helped me with routes and maps.

If you stay in Istanbul for initial 2 days and 2-3 days at towards the end, you will have more advantages than one. You will relax after a long flight. You will see the most important sites that most people see in istanbul, on day 1 and 2. Gives you the feel of the country and culture and kills the anxiety of still reaching the most important and unknown destination at the end of the trip. When I left my big bags in the hotel and roamed with just small day bags to Cappadocia and Selcuk, not only was I travelling super-light but also gave me a feeling of coming back home in Istanbul, after the trip. Only because of this arrangement, I could see Pamukkale on my way to Selcuk from Goreme..
Flights to naveshir are more expensive than to Kayesari.(Normally) I feel you shold fly 1st to cappadocia, then see selcuk and around and fly back to Istanbul. As suggested by Croesus, book your flights 1st and then fill in the gaps.
wishing you Happy travelling and happier planning

I'm glad that Paragkash enjoyed his/her time in Cappadocia so much, but I must admit that I don't agree with all of his/her conclusions.

For example, I don't agree that "the touristy area [of Cappadocia] is fairly compact, kind of conglomeration of a few villages, and can be easily covered by car in a day. .... Goreme Valley was more rewarding than seeing the open air Museum."

I'm glad I was able to spend some time hiking in valleys in/around Goreme, but I would NOT consider them a substitute for the impressive Goreme Open Air Museum; I was glad to see Pasabag, but was glad that I also say the Devrent Valley and the Zelve Open Air Musuem and the Soganli and Ilhara Valleys and Kaymakli (1 of several underground cities in the area) and various nearby hans and some stunning cave monasteries. I also took a hot air balloon - fabulous! And I drove through some incredibly stunning landscapes outside Goreme. Really, there is a GREAT deal to see here, much more than "a few villages." And much more than can be done in 2 days. I have no problem with someone who chooses to visit for just 2 days and makes his/her choices about what to see/do/experience, but I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that 2 days are necessarily sufficient.

FWIW, I got some stunning photos of Pamukkale in the "soft" sunset light of an overcast sky.

Perhaps the young and fit can visit Ephesus from Selcuk on foot, but I'm glad I didn't try that! And when I was there in 2012, I was told that hotel owners in Selcuk were no longer permitted to take their guests to Ephesus. I don't know what the laws are, but I was not willing to put the proprietor of my lodging in legal jeopardy just to save me a few Turkish lira -- and seriously, the taxi fare is minimal.

> If you stay in Istanbul for initial 2 days and 2-3 days at towards the end, you will have more advantages than one

Here again, I think it's a matter of personal choice. I was very pleased with my choice to go on from Istanbul to my next stop (Ankara) -- I was exhausted when I got there, but I would have been exhausted had I gone only as far as Istanbul, and I avoided the transit from the airport into Istanbul and back out again.

> You will see the most important sites that most people see in istanbul, on day 1 and 2

Seeing the "most important sites" in Istanbul in only a day or two while jet lagged is not something that I would recommend. My 5 days in Istanbul were at the end of my trip, after I'd acclimated to the time zone and the language. Even so, I would have liked more time to savor Istanbul's treasures!


Hope this helps - Vive la différence!

kja, you are really lucky to have spent so much quality time in Cappadocia and see all. I wish I had too. I hope to visit Goreme with so much time in hand, again in this life. It's worth it. It is better to spend two days, if you don't have much time, than to not visit at all. I am happy that I spent 2 most amazing days in my life there.
Cappadocia is actually the valleys outside villages. If you have a car, you can stop at suitable places, wander around and come back to your car. Repeat that for other places as well. It is more relaxed and time saving, than travelling by a tour or by public buses. I like other valleys too. Best is that you search for photos on the net, see what you like and spend more time there.

I am not aware of the new rules at Selcuk. You can book the hotel and call up the owner for best option about reaching Selcuk. I remember walking it back from Ephesus lower gate to the Selcuk town. Loved the 40 odd minutes walk.

The Istanbul Ataturk airport (IST) international airport and the other Sabiha gokcen airport (SAW) for Pegasus flights, can be different. My personal opinion is that, it is tough to shuttle directly to another airport after a long flight and go to another destination. I feel too much stretched rather than enjoying the journey.

Each option will have pros and cons, that will vary from person to person.
You can choose the one that suits you the best.
One thing is for sure, you will surely fall in love with Turkey, like we all did and are...

Hi Glander

Turkey is a turkey with my boyfriend, and 9-day holiday package tour and the trip was received. And for 9 days in May, I think Glander enough turkey to gofor you can get much cheaper tour package and flights. Glander definitely purchase all pack my regular tour if you take a tour of the private is very good aircraft must use the bus instead of the Ulusoy bus company has a very nice and new buses. If you do book early, you assume much cheaper at one tour


Me and my boyfriend together with istanbul istanbul ephesus and the virgin mary pergamon aphorodisas Cappadokia I would recommend a 9-day tour program to you. After about 2 hours journey, arrived at Sabiha Gokcen airport to our hotel and went down and transfer to our hotel, a very nice tool, a hotel, a popular 4 stars rooms had views of the sea and the Oldcity programızda 2 days tour in istanbul istanbul and then flew ephesusa very nice, fun, and an indoor bazaar is very We have a beautiful and very cheap souvenirs and hipodreme sophia istanbul haqia the second day, a full evening of the eastern Roman monuments and magnificent yacht trip in the throat, had a very 2 day trip to the beautiful authentic Turkish dishes go throat had a tour of the works of Ottoman Topkapi Palace and the Blue Mosque, we took a lot of photos and dervish show, very beautiful and strong need to go to the baths in a Turkis my frien Glander


We reached there by plane and transfer to the island of birds ephesusa brought with us, and a great library of ancient Greek city and theater and I enjoyed a lot and my boyfriend You should see the amazing ancient arena toilet and güzüel from there we went to the house of virgin mary, and there prayed and lit candles Glander I think you need to. Pamukkale I spent a day there is a huge mountain of cotton can walk or even swim in it every place was very clean and white and there is a museum of ancient immediately above him, I think that every female should go even a little bit expensive, but beauty klopatra enter havuzua pool and tour cappadocia, then we can conclude there came another planet We thought very impressed with a lot of people do in a magnificent natural wonder and join a tour, and after the flight of champagne blowing up baloon.

You can see photos on flickr I think the whole trip took us round Below is my boyfriend can get more detailed information. A good holiday to you too
http://www.goturkeytours.com/turkeytours5.htm

information and advice on this issue I am going to Japan next year we got a light?

in turkey may of 2011. wandered with car no problems MUST GO TO CAPPADOCIA!!!!!! nothing like it in the world - 2/3 days. our favorite was around the black sea in northeast turkey. like being in switzerland with its mountain pastures and wandering herds of cattle and horses. no us or european tourists, just turks. loved it. flights on pegasus airlines out of asian istanbul were almost free.

Thanks lizaevghenia. The reason I prefer to go on my own pace, as Paragkash said, is to experience something more than just a tour... to catch every sunset and some sunrise as well. It's the price I have to pay for the little freedom in perhaps one-time life experience as the one between the group tourists and backpack campers. The difficulty for my plan is having too many options with too limited time. I cannot do for all but hope to capture some typical and special Turkey's beauty in the 15-16 days.

To who responded to my inquiry, I appreciated and valued all your input considering:

flight to IST, 2 nights
flight to ASR, to CAPPADOCIA 3 nights
flight to IZM, rent a car to Selcuk, Pamukkale,
Fethiye (?), Antalya and drop the car, 6 nights
flight to IST, 3 nights then flight home

it's adjustable though, reduce one day by car and add to IST, for example.
I need suggestions for the route by car and where to stay (2-3 stops?) for easy in&out...

Other than countless Dos, any Don't by your first-hand experience?

Dear Glander
you should ask a travel agency by e-mail or phone call
because
air ticket price is changing every day

I usually go to book flight on travelocity.com or expedia.com.
Would travel agency, for example, Turkey Travel Planner, offer cheaper price for flight?

> I need suggestions for the route by car

Check viamichelin.com or mappy.com and, based on my experience, assume the one with the longer estimate is closer to the truth.

> I need suggestions for ... where to stay (2-3 stops?) for easy in&out...

You can see maps of hotel locations on booking.com or tripadvisor.com

Book your flights directly with the airline.I compared my flight from Kayseri to Izmir on expedia and Sun express website. Was $400+ on expedia for 2 tickets and $97 on the airline website.

Good to know! Thanks WhistlerNorth and kja.

Glander, Please search for Fodors member "Otherchelebi". You will get the best advice on where to go from Selcuk, where to stay etc. He is the best...
I liked your itinerary.. 15-16 days are good to get the best of Turkey. My suggestion... Just keep 1 extra day each at Selcuk and Istanbul without any itinerary... just go there and decide...do what the locals do... when you go back home... you will remember these days the most...I had been to Mili national park from Selcuk on my free day..and loved it a lot..Blue sea, lot of greenary, and could see a Greek Island just 900 meters from us... never knew about it. It was my hotel owner Juju's suggestion... You take your pic.

Don't miss "Turkish night" at Yasir Baba restaurant...Your hotel owner will give you a package with the pick-up and drop.. The best extravaganza at unbelievably low rates (25 TL in 2010) with unlimited food, local wine(raki) and all the dances from Turkey... Including whirling dervishes, Belly dancing and many real folk dances. also some interactive dances and everyone joins the camp-fire in the end...Haven't seen a better show anywhere in the world...

agree about "otherchelebi" he did us well 2 years ago!

Have been avidly following this thread, am bookmarking it. Turkey's been on my wishlist forever, was thinking of a trip this Oct, but now it will only be for 2014. kja, Paragkash and the others, will come back to you. Glander, don't forget to post your TR and suggestions/tips when you get back, enjoy

So glad you are going to Cappadocia-We stayed 2 nights in a cave hotel & went on the hot air baloon ride.
Do yu have a place to stay in Istanbul?? We stayed at Dersaadet Hotel. Had a wonderful experience-he kept our bags when we did the 2 nights in Cappadocia. Also don't miss a hammas-The Dursaadet arranged it for me-they came to hotel & picked me up & took me back home. It was an experience not to be missed.
Enjoy-We loved Turkey and many of our friends & relatives have gone because of our reccomondation.

Geetika, as you can see here... whoever visits Turkey, falls in love with it forever. (except those who visit Turkey in Guided tours or on their way to Europe as a stopover, only at Istanbul)
We shall be glad to help in our capacity. Make sure you chose a right season. Very important. We went in spring. April end, May 1st week. Very pleasant climate, with fewer tourists around.Tulips on the road sides everywhere in Istanbul. We needed light jackets in Cappadocia. day temperatures at 24 degree Celsius. Bright sky and bit of clouds for brilliant photos. A bit of drizzle at times. I think even Autumn will be good. I feel, the perfect climate contributes a lot to your impression and experience,

Danger!! - don't get overloaded with preconceptions. Get out there, you're going to have a great time however many days you spend in x region.

Thanks Paragkash, am looking at mid May 2014, won't be able to get away earlier, but guess that should be good. And I agree, Croesus, no preconceptions, just an open mind and friendly smile, my travel mantra where ever I go