hopingtotravel

Last July I thought I had my trip safely planned: Paris, Provence, Loire. After looking at pictures of the Dordogne, I just couldn't resist planning to drive through on my way from Provence to the Loire. Thankfully, most of you here told me that spending an overnight wouldn't do justice to what I want to see. I'm starting to wish I'd planned an entire separate trip! Although I've alotted more than one night, time will be tight. I plan to stay near Sarlat. My questions are: which Michelin map # for off-freeway driving in the area from Cahors to Sarlat? My trip is in May--how much driving time would I expect from Sarlat to Rocamadour? Will roads in the area be clogged on the Ascenion holiday? I'm hoping to stay in LaRoque-Gageac with maybe a meal in Dome, and a drive downriver as far as Beynac. If I can only plan to "see" (not tour or shop, etc) Rocamadour, should I attempt to do that detour on the way in from the south or as I leave on my way to Amboise? I'm hoping to use this trip to pique my husband's interest in coming back for a longer stay in areas that interest him.

StCirq

Blue Michelin map #329 will detail the Dordogne, but I doubt it includes Cahors, which is in a whole other département. I'm not sure which one covers that area. But if you're coming from Cahors, you'll probably want to stay on the A20 until the turnoff for Gourdon anyway.
Sarlat STRAIGHT to Rocamadour in May, or with stops at the interesting places along the way? If straight, an hour and a half to two at most. But if you're going to head to Sarlat only to take off for Rocamadour, it's not worth it. Sarlat and invirons are much more interesting. And if you're only planning to "see" Rocamadour, as in gaze up (or down) at it, rather than walk all around it, see the Black Virgin, etc., no, don't do that. Not worth it when the entire Périgord is at your disposal.
Not sure what you mean by "as far downriver as Beynac?" It's about a 10-minute drive from La Roque-Gageac to Beynac. I'm sure you can get a bit farther down, or up, the river than that!

ira

Hi Hope,

>.. which Michelin map # for off-freeway driving in the area from Cahors to Sarlat? <

Michelin map no. 337

If you want the direct route, take the N20/E9 to Pont de Rhodes. Just N of the town make a left at D230 and connect to D704 at St. Chamarand. This takes you to Sarlat.

A more interesting route is to Go E to St. Cirq-Lapopie, Cabrerets (Grotte du Peche Merle) and the valley of the Céléy to Figeac. From there take the N140 to Lacapelle-Marival, the D48 to St. Céré, the D673 to Souillac, the D703 to the D704 and the the D704 to Sarlat. (This will take 2 days).

This is also a very good map for the region around Sarlat. It is a larger scale than the No. 329 - 1:1.5 vs 1:1.75.

Enjoy your visit.

tedgale

I was in the Loire (perhaps third or fourth visit) in 2003; in the Dordogne (fourth or fifth visit) in October 2004.

If you have never seen the Loire you will not rest until you have seen it and you will feel cheated if you skimp on your visit.

But knowing both the Loire and Dordogne, I certainly prefer the LATTER.

Bottom line: If I were to advise you, I would say cut back on the Loire and free up time for the Dordogne.

BUT for a first timer: the Chateaux of the Loire are something of a pilgrimage -- so I would quite understand why you might wish to reject this suggestion

StuDudley

>>>#329 will detail the Dordogne, but I doubt it includes Cahors,<<

It includes Cahors.

Here is what I would do for just a peek at the Dordogne. Take the A20 north. If it is late in the day, do the first day’s drive in reverse direction - so that the sun will not be in your face. If you do the reverse drive, follow St Cirq’s instructions through Gourdon then to Domme. I think this drive is best in the east to west direction (the way I specify below), because the sight of Montfort & Beynac are better from this perspective - so try to get to Souillac before 1:00.

Take the Souillac exit off the A20, and head west on the D703 (which might be numbered differently at Souillac, which is in a different department than the Dordogne, and they like to change road numbers when departments change, so they can fool us tourists). Anyway, follow the Dordogne river west. The Souillac area is not scenic, so tell your husband to close his eyes (unless he is driving).

Find Carlux on your map, and take a quick “up & back” - the view is quite nice. Continue on the D703 west, and get the camera out as you approach the Cingle de Montfort - the view of the Chateau Montfort is superb. Continue on, and as you pass below the Chateau & then past it. Take a look back at the Chateau from this direction. Continue on the D703 and ohhs & ahhs as you pass Roque Gageac. Grab the camera again as you get close to perhaps the most photographed site in the Dordogne - the river town of Beynac, with the chateau perched high above the town on the cliff. Stop & wander on foot through both Roque Gageac, and Beynac.

Drive all the way through Beynac, and turn the car around & proceed through Beynac again. Just past Beynac, take the D49 to the right (south), and follow this to where it turns right (and becomes the D57) and the crosses the Dordogne river. Look east while on the bridge for a good view, then up to your right (west) to see the Castelnaud Chateau. Continue on the D57 past Castelnaud. At the town of Pont de Cause, turn left – I think the direction will be marked “St Julien”, or “Cenac”. Cross the river & go up a bit, looking back to your left for Castelnaud. When you can’t spot the chateau any more, turn the car around (there is very little traffic, if any, in this area), and return to Castelnaud for a great view of the chateau that the driver can see.

Continue north on the D57, but just after Castelnaud and before crossing back over the Dordogne, take the D53 to your left, and pass the Chateaux of Fayrac (private), and Les Milandes, which is Josephine Baker’s chateau and is open for self tours. The outside of the chateau is picturesque, and the interior is mostly a tribute and museum to her.

After a stop at Milandes, retrace your route a little, and just past Milandes, turn right (south) on the D53 & follow it for a while. When it hits the D50, turn left and follow the D50 until finally gets to Cenac (at the D46). From the D50/D46 intersection at Cenac, go straight and you will ascend up to Domme. This is a very cute, but touristy town with great views. I would recommend that you stay in this town overnight at l’Esplanade. Try to get a room with a view, and also eat at the restaurant there. Make sure you get a table with a view too – it is one of the best (both the view and the restaurant).

Now – here is an “adjustment” to this itinerary, which depends on what day of the week it will be tomorrow. Saturday and Wednesday are market days in Sarlat. I strongly recommend that you DO NOT visit Sarlat on market day – for 2 reasons. You just came from Provence, and I assume you will have visited the fantastic markets in l’Isle sur la Sorgue, Carpentras, or Apt, or one of the smaller markets. I prefer these markets over the Sarlat market. Secondly, I think the market interferes with your enjoyment of the beautiful architecture of this town. Plus the crowds are horrendous, depending on the season, and you are on a tight schedule. If tomorrow is Sat or Wed, then I would visit Sarlat in the evening of your arrival in the Dordogne, and explore Domme tomorrow morning.

Next day

Head out to Sarlat. Leave Domme by 8:00 am – don’t have breakfast – grab a bite in Sarlat. I’m recommending that you get there before the stores open and before the crowds arrive. That way, you can enjoy the lovely architecture “sans” crowds & “sans” street vendor umbrellas. Again – don’t go on market day

Descend Domme, and when you get to the bottom, turn right & go over the bridge. Drive past Roque Gageac & Beynac again – believe me – you can’t get enough of the views of these towns along the Dordogne. Past Beynac, turn around & proceed into Sarlat on the D57. Don’t try to find an optimum parking spot, just park along the 1 way road into town and walk. This 1 way road into Sarlat is not the old Sarlat – you’ll know the old section when you get there. Follow the crowds. Spend about 1 or 2 hrs exploring Sarlat – both sides of the straight road (R. Republic) that cuts through the old section.

When it’s time to leave Sarlat, go straight on the 1 way (can’t go any other way), and circle town & head south on another 1 way that will take you back on the D57 the same way you arrived into Sarlat. Circling Sarlat will be obvious. Continue to Beynac for yet another pass through (and perhaps a different sun perspective). This time keep going through Beynac, along the Dordogne on the D703 to St Cyprien. Then take the D35 toward La Bugue. When you hit the D706, take it north along the Vezere River.

I have to do some dinner prep right now and then go to the Gym, so I’ll give you an itinerary for the remainder of the second day later – probably tomorrow. I would suggest a drive up the Vezere, a stop at either 1 cave or 1 pre-historic site (you many not have time for even 1). Then up through Montignac, then through Terrasson and back on the A20 to the Loire. Perhaps if St Cirq has the time, she can finish the Vezere portion.

See you next year back in the Dordogne and the Lot region.

Stu Dudley
San Mateo (San Francisco), Ca

hopingtotravel

Wow, Stu, I wish you'd been posting a year ago when I started planning this vacation! I am printing out some of the instructions. I had a few 'must sees' from having read St. Cirq's posts. I have a room query in to La Belle Etoile (I hope). I don't seem to be able to find their direct website. Esplanade would probably be my next choice. I thought I would try eating there. St. Cirq, yes I do hope to get farther downstream than 12 miles. According to via michelin, one could drive from Carcassone to Rocamadour, back to Gourdon, then to LaRoque-Gageac in 4 hours (so I would figure 5 plus walking around time). I guess as far as Rocamadour goes, I will have to play it by ear and see how sick my husband is of driving. I do appreciate the idea of 'drive from this direction when the sun is here', etc. It does make a difference!

StuDudley

Back from the Gym.

Are you really planning on starting in Provence, then visiting Carcassone, then on to the Dordogne for some touring on the same day ???

Remember, the best part of Carcassone can only be seen on a guided tour. You may not be able to get on the next tour when you arrive. When you walk under the gates, the ticket office is to your left, and but a ticket immediatly for the next tour. There are tours in English, but with your schedule that might not be doable for you. Plan on Carcassone consuming at least 2 hrs - the tour is 45 mins if it finishes on time. It's a great place for lunch, but you may not have time.

As far as the Dordogne, since you will be arriving later in the day, the sun will most likely be right in your face when you view the Ch Montfort from the Cingle. Also Castelnaud will be in the shadows behind a mountain. Therefore, skip the jog up to the Pont de Cause (for the view) just beyond Castelnaud, and instead visit the interior of the chateau - it is an interesting medieval warfare museum. There is no guided tour, so you can determine your own pace. After the visit to Milandes, go back over the river and return east on the Dordogne the same way you drove before - past Beynac & Roque Gageac. This direction will give you some different views, and the sun won't be in your face.

The next morning, do the Castelnaud thing, but there is sometimes fog in that area in the AM. Often it really looks dramatic with the Chateau poking up from the fog. You know, of course, that these chateaux are totally different than the ones you'll see in the Loire.

I have a 20+ page itinerary for Provence, with descriptions of my favorite villages, markets, drives, etc. I have a very scenic "lavender route" that's great even if you will not be there in lavender season. There is also a section on Provence fabric - my wife has over 50 tablecloths we've purchased there. We've vacationed in Provence & Cote d'Azure for over 21 weeks since '99. I also have a 20+ page itinerary for the Dordogne. E-mail me at [email protected] if you want a copy if either or both.

Stu Dudley

hopingtotravel

Sorry. To clarify, no, we plan to overnight in Carcassone. Everyone here said not to attempt driving it in a day. Gee, how did you guess I would like Provencal fabrics? As I mentioned, I wish I had seen some of your itineraries last spring. Over the last 8 years I put my husband through some rather long days and 3,000 miles in England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland because there was always just 'one more garden or standing stone' over the next hill that I had to see. He is not yet retired so I think I've stretched the France itinerary about as long as I dare.

StuDudley

>>>To clarify, no, we plan to overnight in Carcassone. Everyone here said not to attempt driving it in a day.<<

I sure don't agree with that. You can easily get to Carcassone and a visit in a 1/2 day, and then on to the Dordogne and get to Beynac, for example, at a reasonable time. There are scads of neat places to visit & stay between Carcassone and the Dordogne. Last June, we cleaned our Gite just south of Perpignan in the AM, checked out at 10:00, drove to Pezenas and visited this very pretty town and their wonderful Saturday AM market, had lunch there (not a sit-down lunch), then drove the back roads to our Gite north of Uzes & checked in around 3:00. Our Gite south of Perpignan is just a little farther away from Provence than Carcassone is.

If you are already committed to a Carcassone overnight, here is a nice side trip along the way. My Michelin guide says that the part of the Chateau you can tour, closes at 7:30 from June thru Sept, and 6:00 april to May, and 5:00 Oct to March. Usually the last tour departs about 1 hr before these closing times.

Take exit 34 off the A9, and drive to Pezenas. Saturday is market day in Pezenas. This is a really cute town and worth visiting even if you don’t hit it on market day. Park in the large lot at the Place du 14 Juillet. The market in town is one of the nicest in the Languedoc, and one of the very few I have visited (I’ve seen over 50) that does not detract from your enjoyment of the town. Many markets (Carpentras, Sarlat, St Remy, etc) wander through the narrow streets and actually interfere with you seeing the architecture of the town. Pezenas’ market is primarily in a large “place” (Pl. Gambetta). Take the walking tour of the town outlined in the Green Guide. There are very nice antique shops along Cours Jean Jaures. Remember the lunch closings. The food section of the market closes around 1:00. If you want a “sit down” lunch, there are many nice outdoor spots in town or you can grab a slice of pizza or a sandwich from the vendors in town.

Look at your watch & figure out when you want to get to Carcassone. It's about 120K away from Pezenas - mostly all freeway, so you are about 1 1/2 hrs away. If you want to see more in this area and you have the time, do the following.

After visiting Pezenas, take the N9 north towards Clermont-l’Herault. Then take the N109 east towards Gignac, where you will take the road north to Aniane and then the D27 towards St Guilhem le Desert & Grotte de Clamouse.

Check your watch. If you are going to hit this area around the lunch closings (12:30 to 2:00 or so) and you want to do a little browsing in the shops in St Guilhem, then see Clamouse first and return to St Guilhem when the shops open. St Guilhem is not a great shopping village, however. The setting and the town’s architecture are the real stars here. My Michelin Green Guide says that Clamouse is open during lunch. (but don’t bet the bank on that).

Take the guided tour of the Grotte de Clamouse. This is an excellent cave with stalactites & mites.

The village of St Guilhem* is one of the “Most Beautiful Villages of France”. Take plenty of film with you – it’s quite scenic. The village stretches west of the D27 main road. When you approach the village on the D27 (the village will be on your left), turn left on a smaller road – you will see a parking lot sign. The best way to access the town is from the very large parking lot at the west end of the village, at the end of this road. There are WC facilities there too. You will get a great view of the village as you drive along this road to the parking lot. Pick up a ticket from the automatic gate entrance to the lot & park the car, taking the ticket with you so you can pay at the machine next to the WCs when you leave. Cars are not allowed on any roads in the “old” section of town (there is no “new” section). Walk into town and you will be in a large “place” with a church and some arcades. There are some shops in this “place”, but they amount to about 80% of the shops in St Guilhem. This “place” is a nice spot to relax on a bench, have a drink at a café, or even lunch. To explore the town, take a street to the left of the arcaded area & just follow your nose & proceed west (left – towards the mountains). You will eventually find yourself running out of town. Retrace your steps and walk east, taking a different street if you can. Keep going east & you will eventually find the only road in village that runs east. This is the main cobbled road through town & will eventually end at the larger D27 road. Take lots of pictures along this road & explore some of the side streets - especially by the abbey church. Walk over the stream on a stone pathway, and then return. Keep going east until you hit the D27. Don’t return to your car by walking back along the same cobbled street. Instead, walk along the road you drove on to get to the parking lot and take some pictures along the way.

Return to the A9 and Carcassone.

Have you sent me an e-mail requesting my Provence & Dordogne itineraries yet - I have not seen any. If you like Provence fabric, I think there is a lot to be learned from my write-up.

Stu Dudley

StCirq

To make the most of your time in Sarlat, I recommend you contact the Sarlat Tourist Office in advance (http://www.ot-sarlat-perigord.fr/) and arrange for the one-hour English-language walking tour of the town. The tours are terrific and cost 10€ a person.

hopingtotravel

St. Cirq-thanks for the walking tour idea. My husband sometimes has knee problems and a specific tour would be a better use of his walking time than my leading him around aimlessly. Stu, I hadn't e-mailed you for info because by the time I saw your postings my schedule was fairly tightly planned. As for driving distances, after some of the comments on this board I didn't want to make my husband drive all the way from St.Jean Cap Ferrat to Sarlat in a day. That's why the overnight in Carcassone. He's willing to have some days of 5-6 hour drives, but he said not every day. St. Cirq, I haven't decided yet on my route from Carcassone to Gourdon, but somewhere I have printed out your backroads version which is very intriguing. Thanks, all.

StuDudley

>>> I didn't want to make my husband drive all the way from St.Jean Cap Ferrat to Sarlat in a day<<<

When you said "Provence" I was thinking more of St Remy & that section of Provence. I agree - St Jean to Sarlat would be too much in a day. My Cote d'Azur itinerary has some very interesting drives through many small villages and scenic roads in the Nice Hinterland. I also describe a 1 day train trip to Tende in the Alps. We've stayed in a Gite near Vence for 4 weeks, and many trips to Nice in addition.

Stu Dudley

hopingtotravel

Back to my original map question: from your suggestions I wrote down #337 and number #329. Right now my local Barnes & Noble has neither. (I think the Dordogne is popular this spring). If I order one, which would be more detailed for the Sarlat area? I also have a more general question. In areas where we're following a freeway from point A to point B, i.e., Paris to Beaune, Beaune to St. Remy, etc, I surely don't need to buy the 'area' Michelin maps do I? It seems like I'd end up with a foot high stack of maps.

ira

Hi Hop,

You can purchase your maps from http://www.globecorner.com/s/59.html

StCirq

hoping: Unless you are a really lame navigator, you shouldn't have to buy a stack of maps. On the main routes, everything is very well signed - you just need to know the names of towns along your route instead of route numbers. The autoroute DOES get a bit confusing around the Carcassonne-Toulouse area, so check out online maps before you leave to make sure you stay on the right branch of it.

Also, keep in mind that you can esily pick maps up once you arrive in France, and they'll be cheaper. You can get them at any bookstore, most highway rest stops, and a lot of supermarkets.

StuDudley

Map #329 covers Cahors & the Dordogne area. It does not include Figeac, however - that's on 337.

You can purfchase it at
http://www.maptown.com/

Stu Dudley

Robespierre

Do you own a laptop? Take it with you, along with a copy of Microsoft AutoRoute and a GPS plug-in (I got a Pharos for $60 bundled with MS Streets & Trips which is North America only).

You enter your start and end points (and any waypoints you choose), and it will plot the route for you on a moving map display, maintaining your position at the center of the map at all times. It simultaneously gives driving directions in a list form.

You can zoom out to a view of the entire Earth, or in to street level, or anything in between. It's like carrying a stack of maps <i>forty</i> feet high.

Paper maps are 14th Century technology. I'm astounded that anyone uses them any more.

* May not work perfectly in Norway.

ira

&gt;Paper maps are 14th Century technology. I'm astounded that anyone uses them any more.

* May not work perfectly in Norway.&lt;

I think that you answered your own question.

Robespierre

What question?

StuDudley

&gt;&gt;&gt;Paper maps are 14th Century technology. I'm astounded that anyone uses them any more.&lt;&lt;&lt;

Before I travel to a new region, I buy a detailed paper map. I get the Michelin Green Guide &amp; other references and use a yellow magic marker to highlight the routes I will take each day to explore an area, see an historic site, castle, mountain lookout, village, or scenic road. As I read more books, I &quot;highlight&quot; more. If there are two recommended scenic drives close to each other, I know that I have the option of combining them on one day's trek. An example of a route is the one I described earlier in this thread. I also highlight in red, the villages I want to stop in &amp; look around. In June, we purchase the official Tour de France guide, and I use a orange magic market to highlight the TdF route, so if we are near any stages, we can get a &quot;preview&quot;. The Michelin Maps have scenic roads highlighted in green, and any cities with recommended restaurants are underlined in red. After I've done all my research, I figure out what's &quot;do-able&quot; in 1 day, and list all the &quot;do-able&quot; days in a priority sequence. I then compare that to how many days I'll be in an area.

When we're actually in France exploring, I write &quot;cute&quot; or &quot;very cite&quot; next to villages I especially like, and &quot;pretty&quot; next to a road that's especially scenic. In Provence, I will write &quot;lav&quot; if there is a lavender field in a certain spot. I also use the IGN 1/25,000 scale maps to take walks in areas. These maps show the cow paths, foot bridges, GR routes, bike paths, etc.

I find paper maps quite useful.

Stu Dudley