Hi puddinggow,

I really wouldn't try to do Garmisch, Mittenwald, Neuschwanstein, and Linderhof in one day. Sure, it's possible to set foot in each one in one day, but it won't give you the experience of actually being there. I say to go more slowly and actually enjoy being where you'll be!

What do you plan to do in Garmisch? You'll need at least half a day to see some of it --

The streets that date from 800 AD (Griesgartenstr and Sonnenstr)

The pedestrian zone along Am Kurpark

Partenkirchen with its pedestrian zone at Ludwigstr

The Olympic Stadium and ski jump

Hiking the Partnachklamm?

Ascending the Zugspitze or the Alspitze

Seeing the beautiful wide fields along St. Martinstr

Going to & walking around the Eibsee

And, yes, I think it will take longer than 1h to experience Mittenwald -- it would be great if you could get out of the town to see some countryside. Walking to one of the nearby lakes is a good way to do that.

Have fun as you plan!

s

Swandav, many thanks for your advice.

I was unsure if the weather during April would be suitable for hiking but now that you provide me with so many suggestions, I certainly will allocate one day to spend Mittenwald and Garmisch - they sound absolutely wonderful places to visit! I probably would take the train instead of driving.

I would like to walk around the towns and go for a gentle walk (my Mom is in her 60s so we can't doing any really strenous walks but would love any really scenic landscapes). I didn't really explore going up the mountains as I thought most of the cable cars would be closed during the in-between ski and summer months. I see that Zugspitze is open all year round so will look into that.

Hi Swandav

Based on your comments about what to do in Mittenwald and Garmisch, I have decided to stay at Hotel Edelweiss in Garmisch. It looks like the best place to stay as my Mom does not like staying in really remote and quiet places at night and Garmisch seems to have enough to keep us busy.

Here's our revised itinerary:

Day 1 (Wed) – Arrive Munich
Day 2 (Thu) – Day trip to Salzburg by train (Bayern ticket)
Day 3 (Fri) – Hire a car and drive to Rothenburg ob der Tauber - return to Munich in the evening. Is there any other towns we should visit that day?
Day 4 (Sat) - Drive to Mittenwald and Garmisch and stay overnight in Garmisch
Day 5 (Sun) – Drive to Neuschwanstein, Linderhof and Oberammergau and return the car in the evening
Day 6 (Mon) – Last day in Munich - return to London in the late afternoon

Just returned from our trip to Munich, Salzburg, Vienna. You have to see the Munich glockenspiel (real touristy, but fun), and the market. The driving from Munich to Lindenhof and back should be enough for one day. Neuschwanstein is even further,and in lots of very hilly and narrow roads. It too, is at least 1/2 day. Oberammergau is a quiet little town when the Passion Play is not on, so a quick stop, maybe. Don't miss Rothenburg, it is great.

"I was contemplating taking a train to Rothenburg and a tour to the castles but it seems cheaper / less hassle to hire a car than take a tour for two persons...
Day 4 (Sat) – Hire a car and drive to Rothenburg ob der Tauber - return to Munich in the evening. Is there any other towns we should visit that day?
Day 5 (Sun) – Hire a car and drive to Neuschwanstein, Linderhof and Oberammergau and return the car in the evening"


Not an inexpensive proposition, and very time consuming. Perhaps not very rewarding either since so much travel is involved.

Options for more leisurely sightseeing near Munich aren't always in the guidebooks for Americans but can be quite rewarding:

Ludwig's Herrenchiemsee "castle" (all of his are late 19th century palaces, really) is quite fabulous. Herrenchiemsee is near Prien on an island by the same name in Chiemsee Lake, about 1 hour east of Munich by direct train (Bayern ticket.)

Photos: http://home.arcor.de/oberpfalz-nord/chiemsee.htm
Info: http://www.herrenchiemsee.de/englisch/n_palace/index.htm

Even closer to Munich is Schleißheim Palace - an easy, direct, 20-minute S-Bahn trip from Munich's main station.

http://www.schloesser-schleissheim.de/englisch/n_palace/history.htm

Landshut has a fine old town without the tourist horde of Rothenburg - and it's less than 1 hour from Munich by direct train (Bayern ticket):

Multilingual brochure: http://www.landshut.de/uploads/media/Landshut_im_Ueberblick_02.pdf

Regensburg's old town is a preserved UNESCO World Heritage site - and a little over one hour from Munich by direct train (Bayern ticket.)

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1155

Forgot something: visit the Regensburg and Landshut town websites for information on local tours, etc.:

http://www.regensburg.de/sixcms/detail.php/3854
http://www.landshut.de/en/thema/tourismus.html

Just returned from a similar trip (and stayed at Motel One Sendlinger Tor, which I can recommend). MY only thought is that if you like pretty scenery, cute villages and shopping you will regret not spending more time in Rothenburg. Also, the Night Watchman's tour there should not be missed! (8 PM every night).

Most trips that include Munich, Salzburg and other Bavarian towns are usually 10-14 days. Is there ANY way to go for more than 5 nights?

Thank you all so much for all your great advice. You have provided me with tons of options of places to visit!

Unfortunately I have already paid for the flights. I can only take just over 2 weeks holiday at Easter and retun to the UK (where I grew up) every Easter & need to spend some time at home to chill out & run errands so trip time is limited.

I have a very bad habit of packing too much into my trips. This time I have resisted the temptation to move hotels every day or two and tried to locate us in one hotel and make day trips from Munich.

That's why despite also really wanting to book an overnight stay at Rothenburg, I decided to just go for the day. Maybe I should see if I should visit the sites Russ recommended nearer to Munich and leave Rothenburg for another trip but I also really want to see it too. Aghhhh I wish I had an extra more couple of days!

Garmisch and the surrounding area look too good to only pass-by and the more I read about it the more I look forward to going up the Zugspitze.

I am thinking to drive to Mittenwald early on Sat and explore the town, then drive onto Garmisch, walk around what time do the shops close on Sat?), check-in to the hotel and ascend the Zugspitze by cog-wheel train in the afternoon and descend to the Lake Eibsee by cable car and walk around (probably not the whole way around). Would I be able to go to Partnachklamm on Sun morning(park at the Olympic Park)?Then drive to the Castles and return to Munich in the early evening?

I saw the separate thread SwissChocolate posted about recommendations for hotels in Garmisch. I booked the Hotel Edelweiss due to the reviews in Trip Advisor. It looks like a nice place albeit a little bit more pricey than I was expecting to pay but still ok. Compared to the cheaper places recommended, do you think the Eldeweiss is worth Euro 142 for a double room with balcony?

Hi again,

Well, I don't think you need a car for your trip; in fact, I am so against driving in Bavaria that I cannot help travellers who decide to drive here (it would be hypocritical of me).

I live in Garmisch, and I don't have a car --

It looks like you're getting all the help you need --

s

Swandav, I'm sorry if I have offended you by deciding to drive vs taking the train. I was originally set on just taking the train but I am concerned that my Mom would get too tired, changing trains, waiting for buses, or walking too long distances. I do understand your view - where I live I don't own a car and only take public transport. I appreaciate all your help.

Well then, you have that you have.

Regarding your revised itinerary posted 10/24/2012 @ 10:13am:

It all looks fine except I would suggest you stay in Munich on Day 3 and rent the car on Day 4 (leave early, to arrive in Mittenwald by 10 am or so). You could easily spend a week in Munich as well. Your current 1/2 day on arrival and 1/2 day before departure is woefully inadequate.

Promise yourself a proper stay in Rothenburg next time - you really don't have the extra days right now.

Hi again,

You are certainly gracious and kind! And I am so happy to learn that we think alike on public transport!

I do wonder, though, if you are underestimating your mother's abilities? Or does she have a disability? I am a 57 year old woman, and (barring an accident or debilitating illness), I don't think that waiting for a bus or walking a few blocks will be very difficult in 10 years. In fact, the streets of Garmisch are crowded with matrons like me doing grocery shopping on our bikes, and there is usually a small forrest of bicycles outside of our grocery stores.

But I'm happy to see that your trip is coming together!

s

Bardo1 - Actually I hadn't really thought much about exploring Munich other than using it as a base to explore Bavaria. However, the more I find about the city the more it sounds like we should make more time for the area.

Swandav - my Mom and I travelled around Italy last Easter and Spain this Easter by train. My Mom loved it & was amazed how efficient, clean & inexpensive their train systems are compared to the UK. I know she will love the German trains as well.

She has a bad back and while she can walk for an hour on a country walk, she gets tired if she is stopping and starting. She has been hinting about visiting Germany for the last 2-3 years and said she wants to see castles and pretty villages and scenery. I am just worried that getting up early and taking train rides every day to and from Munich will wear her out.

My main concern is getting to Neuschwanstein from Garmisch - it seems to be a two hour bus ride and that would mean no time to visit Linderhof either. If I could take the train from G-P to Fussen, I would certain drop the car.

You really do a wonderful 'job' of promoting the area where you live. I'm sure many people decide on visiting and spending more time there based on your advice!

You are going to have to hurry if you are planning to get there by April 2012. Assuming you meant 2013, April is a lovely time to vist Bavaria.

One night in Munich you could consider the Bavarian Folk evening of yodeLing and dancing on the third floor of the Hofbreau Haus at 7 pm. Ask your hotel to call ahead with reservations as it can fill up with tour busses..

Looking over your schedule you could consider renting a car for a two day loop through Garmish, Mittenwald and then Ettal Monastary, Linderhof, Oberammergau, Wiesekirche and then Hohenschwangau an Neuschwanstein.

Have a good time.

AisleSeat - yes I did mean 2013 hee hee. Sounds like a fantastic evening as long as it's not me doing the yodeling - I could clear the room in 10 secs with my singing!

Sounds like a good itinerary. I hope to arrive in Garmish early to catch the first cable car or cogwheel train to the summit of Zugspitze depending on the weather or course.

Since you've decided to use a car to get to R-burg I suggest you go as early as possible; there are a bunch of car parks outside the walls and the town can get mobbed pretty fast.

I would also recommend the palace at Herrenchiemsee IF you are interested in seeing the Ludwig "build" which has the best interior decoration; Neuschwanstein is iconic for sure but the inside is kinda dull compared to the overall exterior so be prepared. Linderhof, OTOH, has the fantasy quality inside.

Personally you could do the Neuschwanstein area as well as Oberammergau by rail and public bus but a car would be MUCH more convenient and driving in Bavaria is not intimidating IMO (having done so).

Oberammergau...great IF you want to see a bunch of wood carver shops and the like (I've been to the Passion Play twice) but that's about it; the monastery at nearby Ettal might be of greater interest.

Enjoy your trip.

I was underwhelmed by Oberamergau - it is a nice town, but not a must-see. So if you need to leave something off the itinerary in the interests of time, that's what I would leave off.

I also think it is a shame to shortchange Munich so much. At least spend one of your days there.

If you are still interested in the train, but worried about the time and train changes for Rothenburg, there are quite a few other neat Bavarian towns that are easier and quicker to get to. I really enjoyed Rothenburg, but there are other towns that I have enjoyed just as much or more so. Bamberg is my favorite town in that general area. It does take a couple hours to get to, but you can get a direct train or just 1 change enroute. That said, the train changes to get to Rothenburg aren't difficult. No need to stress. That 4 minute train connection will have you sitting on the train for 3 minutes waiting for it to go

The train change for R-burg occurs in Steinach. There are about TWO platforms. When your train rolls in on one platform you'll see the R-burg train waiting for you at the other one.

Another area that sounds perfect for you and your mom is the Salzgammergut area in Austria and it is close to Munich. You could train to Bad Ischl and take a bus (right outside the rail station) to St. Wolfgang (Think app. 30 minutes of pastoral scenery) A trip to Hallstatt by train from Bad Ischl is convenient. A boat meets the train at the rail station to take you across the lake. A beautiful sight you will never forget. We stayed in fairy tale like St. Wolfgang and did a day trip to Bad Ischl and Hallstatt in one day. St. Wolfgang is on the lake and you can also take the boat to St. Gilgen and other villages around the lake. Have a good trip. By the way, swandav was also a great help to me (and many others) when we went to the Mittenwald, Fuessen, Garmisch area.

When you get to the Zugspitze in Garmish check on the weather at the top. If it is socked in you may want to skip it.

When you rent your car in Munich don't pick it up at the train station or airport. They add a 19% surtax for that privilage. I arrange for car rentals in Europe through Gemutlichkeit travel in Oregon, gemut.com. They give me the best deal and good advice.

Coming back to your practical question #3 of your initial post:

YES, you should book winter tires for driving in the Bavarian Alps and the front range hills in early April - though you don't need to get chains.

Winter tires are not only needed for driving thru piles of snow but also on bone-dry or wet roads whenever the temps hover around freezing as their rubber mixture will offer better traction than summer tires.
You can expect any roads you need to take to be free from snow or ice, but there is always a chance for black ice spots here and there in the morning and night hours. Even when the temps during the day are already mild.

Everyone, thank you so much for all your tips and assistance, its been invaluable in my planning!

To be honest, although my mom has been very keen to go to Germany (she passed through it before on a European tour), I have, dare I say it, been avoiding it, choosing to go to other places in Europe as I (1) was stupidly ignorant of its attractions and (2) have haboured a dream of going to Switzerland (still too expensive), thinking the scenert in Germany would be 2nd fiddle to Switzerland's.

The more I learn about Bavaria, the more I am really excited to go, wishing I had more days to spend there. I'm pretty sure that I will be planning another trip there again soon.

If I make the trip to Rothenburg by car, then I plan to set out before 7am and hopefully avoid the worst of the rush-hour traffic.

The Salzgammergut area sounds wonderful too - my mom loves taking a boat on lakes so I will explore that further too and finally decide on which other area to visit apart from Garmisch.

As Oberammergau is on the way to Garmisch, I can just make a quick stop just to have a look around or skip it if running late.

I did enquire with Gemut but even though I selected a time of 6.30am pick up they quoted Avis which opens at 10am, with an extra overnight's rental to return the car at 10am which I don't need. Sitx rates seem quite reasonable and the Karlsplatz location opens at 6am.

Thank you for answering my question about winter tyres. I will definitely order them. I have driven on black ice before and it is the most scariest thing.

I have another question if anyone could help me with please.

I have looked at a lot of menus and many of the dishes offer sauerkraut or potato salad with the protein. I do not like vinegary foods (although I have now found out proper sauerkraut is femented not pickled with vinegar). Anyway, I have got a stupid food phobia about if my food even touches mayo, salad dressing etc I won't eat it. If I ask would it be a problem for them to serve it on the side (my mom can eat it) or subsituting it for mashed potato or something else?

How can I say in German that I don't like this types of food and if they can serve it on a separate plate. Also if they can serve the salad dressing in a separate bowl? I know it's very strange and my friends think I'm being fussy & what's the big deal, but it can ruin a meal for me. I would like to print the phrases and show it to the server so they understand.

That's pretty easy (the foodstuff)

Mayo in German is Mayo(naise) - you will pronounce it French in its full version but even the short form Mayo is extremely common.
Salad dressing is, well, Salat Dressing
XYZ On a seperate plate is "XYZ auf einem extra Teller, bitte" . Or short: XYZ separat, bitte!

Don't feel mocked if waitstuff gives you a big grin, but "Harry and Sally" has been also pretty popular over here

In general, some tourists tend to think that German food is high carb potatos and dumplings because they go to the good ole historical wirtshaus type of inns/pubs. And order the fattest pork knuckles available this side of the Alps. But in addition to the stereotype food, even the old inns will always have light dishes like fish (more popular/typical for Bavaria than you may think because of the many lakes and rivers) or low cal meat like veal.
If you leave aside the old wirtshauses once in a while you will find a ton of restaurants with modern, or modernized Bavarian food which is much lighter on your stomach. But usually no oompah there

Cowboy1968 - thank you that sound easy to remember and managable! I'm sure no-one will be ordering what I'm having though!

Violetduck - I had not considered Hallstatt but seeing the photos of the place have now fallen completely in love with it. It looks like heaven on earth.

What is it like in early April? I guess it's still considered the winter season. I am really tempted to spend a night in Salzburg now and take a day trip to Hallstatt before returning to Munich and then going to Garmisch the next day (all by train/bus).

That would give me an excuse to return to Germany next year and visit Munich again, Rothenburg ob der Tauber, Bamberg etc.

Early April is a very unstable time.
You can't tell if winter is already on its retreat from the higher elevations or not.
And if temps go up this usually means rain, especially on the Northern side of the Alps, which is the "wrong" side for somewhat reliable nice springtime weather at that time.
Things look different on the Southern side, e.g. In Ticino or the Upper Lakes in Northern Italy.

Think about spending more time in Munich, a city with much to see. All those different destinations will really eat up your time with travel from one to another.

Hi,

Have you thought about this... train to Garmisch and get the car there?

What I'm seeing is first night in Munich. Nights 2, 3 and 4 somewhere else. Night 5 in Munich and depart afternoon of day 6.

First, the alpine scenery in Bavaria can be as stunning as anywhere else. If a boat trip on a lake and alpine scenery and a castle are a few priorities, I'd suggest:

Either getting the car in Munich OR training to Freilassing, Germany (just outside of Salzburg) and basing for your 3 free nights in the Berchtesgaden area. Take the boat ride on the beautiful/dramatic Konigsee, take a cable car trip on the Jennerbahn (next to Konigsee), visit Salzburg (30 min away from Berchtesgaden) which is easy to see and walk for a day, take a drive to the Salzkammergut (St. Gilgen, Wolfgangsee, etc.) and visit "Mad" King Ludwig's Herrenchiemsee palace on the way back to Munich. It's right between Munich ans Salzburg/Berchtesgaden and the interior is a all that and you'll get another boat ride on the Chiemsee, as the palace is on an island. Plus, Berchtesgaden is a nice old town with a nice pedestrian zone. There's plenty to see and do in this area. We've stayed about 14 nights in this area since 2001 and love it. Just a few idea's.

If interested, we have photo's (3 pages of them) at:

www.worldisround.com/home/pja1/index.html

www.berchtesgadener-land.info/index.cfm?B7DE77163923488DB81A71EAC9BC5CAF

http://en.berchtesgadener-land.com/en/live/ennavi/parser,id,75,nodeid,.html

Paul

I meant to add you could pick up the car in Freilassing, Germany.

Paul, thank you - you have given me a lot to think about. Pension Mayringerlehen looks amazing. I wish I had 14 days to explore the area. I think will definitely have to plan to return to the area in 2014 to enjoy those place I didn't visit.

Looks like I have to do some more researching and reading this weekend and come up with a final itinerary. I love planning for vacations so much!

Hi puddinggow,

The Pension Mayringerlehen (10 min. from Berchtesgaden) is probably our favorite place to stay anywhere.

www.mayringerlehen.de

In the same area, the Guesthouse Friedwiese is a very close second. We stayed here late Nov. '10, as the Mayringerlehen was closed at this time.

www.friedwiese.de/enska/isl.htm

Have fun planning!

Paul