You have hit on the biggest snag. Getting a visa to work there is extremely difficult. You best bet is to find a company with offices there, get a job in the US and eventually try to transfer there.

Or develop credentials that will allow you access (generally able to do a job that a local can't).

It's just like the US - getting in and working legally is very difficult. It can be done - but is very difficult until you have an established career.

(My company employs several foreign nationals - but they are either spouses of American citizens - or came with a spouse that had a career entree - accepted for a residency program at a very prestigious medical center and stayed on as a fellow and now an attending.)

Ireland has been especially hard hit by the current crisis. As of September it had an unemployment rate of over 14%.
What jobs there are there will go first to Irish citizens, then to European citizens and only then to other nationals.
Unless you are both going to be working in a very niche area which Ireland has a need of, and where there are no experts, from anywhere in the EU, your chances of fulfilling your dream are remote.

If you are anything to do with the oil industry there is a faint hope of a job due to recent finds of the Irish coast I guess, but even then the queue will be long and there are plenty of experienced Europeans able to take those jobs.

I think that you might need to rethink this?
Both of my kids went to graduate school in the UK in the past couple years. They were entitled to apply for a UK 2 year work visa after they graduated which cost about 600 pounds.In order to get a UK work visa,the UK government made one prove that they had graduated from a UK school;showed enough money in the bank,etc. for so many points geared towards their visa.(This particular visa has since stopped this past year for everyone though.)
Both of them got their work visas but all they could find were jobs or internships that were either temporary or barely minimum wage despite having masters degrees.Unless you have a skill that is so unusual, you have a very slim chance as all of the EU countries are being flooded with the Eastern Bloc/Ex Soviet satelite groups taking the jobs now. Lots of Polish,Czechs,Russians,etc. due to the immigration rules.
Quite honestly, I would say to continue looking into immigrating but you have alot of roadblocks to overcome.

I should add that 75% of young people aged between 16 and 24 are unemployed in Ireland. True that includes all the low schooled, and those at university, but it shows you how hard starter jobs are to get there.

As stated it depends on your field of expertise but rather than make the jump why not consider looking at a few months working holiday with one of the organisations who handle such things

http://www.workaway.info/hostlist-IE.html?region=Connacht
http://www.sunrisefarmireland.org/

Young US citizens can get working holiday visa for Ireland, valid a year. No work permit required.
See http://www.dfa.ie/home/index.aspx?id=73713

While you may be able to get a working holiday visa - getting a job to pay for your living expenses may be a challenge (as the stats above show!). You may need to save up some cash before you can actually get over there to ensure you have enough money to live on in case you cant actually find work...

You need to have 1500 euro ($1940) to get your WH visa, which is a good amount to get you started. I agree jobs are difficult to find, but it's often possible to pick up casual work in the season. It's a career-type job especially that is hard to find for young Irish people.

Yes - but casual work isn't going to pay enough for someone to live on for more than a very short time. Nor is it any way to find a way to live there long-term.

Have you considered doing a semester or a year of study abroad in Ireland? (My daughter did this and had a fabulous year in Ireland.) Your time in Ireland will give you a chance to see what living in Ireland is really like. It may turn out that it's not what you expected and you don't really want to live there. Or it may convince you that you really have to find a way to (legally) live and work there.

Posted by: KyleDollar on Oct 11, 12 at 1:35pm
If you're non-European it seems nearly impossible to get one of these permits. Is there any way we can make this dream become a reality?

I suggest that you find a job with an American company which has operations in Ireland. Then try to get a transfer. Get the job first and let the company do the work permit and other paperwork if they will transfer you. See
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap21/working.htm for my experiences getting transferred to Holland and Germany.

Good luck!

Intra-company transfer is only feasible for more senior experienced staff, as it costs employer money and red tape, and being college students, the OPs are unlikely to be in such a position.

Agree - you usually need to be at a fairly senior level - or have very specific skills - to be transferred abroad. We have transfers between our offices at times (not permanent - but perhaps up to a year) - but it is always someone with at least 7 or 8 years experience - often more. (There is no point in a company going through all that trouble and expense to send a junior employee abroad - when they have a tone of peopl eont he spot that can do the same job.)

Intra-company transfer is only feasible for more senior experienced staff, as it costs employer money and red tape, and being college students, the OPs are unlikely to be in such a position.

While it is doubtful that you will be hired out of college to be an expat, but my company has been known to do foreign assignments for junior staff if they have the right skill set and if they are a promising candidate for future growth in the company.

If you are going to be looking for an assignment, you would be best served if you are working in one of the major multinational industries in Ireland, particularly pharmaceuticals and certain IT sectors.

Agree that jobs that are techie often offer better opportunities. But it is probably worthwhile researching what companies have sizable offices in Ireland (and yes, Pharma is among them - but unless you are on the science side (meaning a PhD) you usually have to be above junior level to be assigned abroad.

This is the field I work in. We have staff going to other offices - Tokyo, London, Barcelona, Weisbaden - but only experienced people. On the company side marketing people usually need at least 4 or 5 years inside experience - after a couple of years of sales experience before they have a chance of moving. Science/medical may be sooner - but as noted needs advanced degrees in the right areas. (Our Medical/science people all have PhDs in life sciences - often cell biology -plus at least 1 or 2 years post-doctoral work, professional publications, etc. and usually are from top universites. Most taught at the university level.)

I live in London and since 2008 I can say that a lot of large companies have stopped doing their exchanges and secondments to the extent that they used to. This includes companies like KPMG, PwC, Northern Trust to name a few that I am very familiar with. There is such a huge amount of unemployed people at experienced but lower levels that it is just not worth going through the hassle of doing secondments in these economic conditions. This is the level where most secondments at these companies come from.

Even at those large companies, they werent doing secondments for new hires, usually you had to be experienced but at either a lower manager/supervisor level, or a very senior level to get a secondment and even then you had to be a high performer to qualify and go through an in depth selection process.

Pharma is among them - but unless you are on the science side (meaning a PhD) you usually have to be above junior level to be assigned abroad.

Not true. Perhaps for your company, but not all.

And I question the utility of a PhD in getting a job at a pharma outpost in Ireland. The Irish pharma industry is overwhelmingly manufacturing, not R&D. At a manufacturing site, you will find relatively few PhDs, if any.

This post has turner out as a very interesting to me case study but I wander what OP's thoughts are... I think he may have some idea of how difficult his plan is by now, and if we have to stay focused in the particular request, his contribution is necessary.

This is all very helpful information and I thank all of you. We've been thinking about saving up as much as we can, traveling there this summer, and seeing how we like it. We also thought that maybe work here in the U.S. for 2-3 years, save up as much money as we can, and then hopefully get a job to transfer over there or just move and see what happens. Is that approach not something we should consider? We didn't realize how hard this would actually be. If it's that hard to move overseas, then how or why would people do it?

". . . or just move and see what happens. Is that approach not something we should consider?"

That really isn't feasible. One can't just up and move to Ireland - or most anywhere else in Europe.

" If it's that hard to move overseas, then how or why would people do it?"

Why -- because it can be a wonderful/life changing experience. How -- it isn't easy, but why should it be? It takes effort. Have you heard how difficult it is for someone to move to the States?

That's a very good point. We've been coming up with the idea because it would be a wonderful/life changing experience. I know it's not easy, but it almost seems impossible. Like the whole work permit thing is really our biggest issue. We're starting to save all the money we can. I haven't heard how difficult it is to get into the states. Is it just as hard or harder than going to Europe? I mean if we were to move to Ireland, isn't there jobs like in the states that you can just get to work? Like minimum wage jobs such as working at a grocery store, waiter or waitress at an restaurant. Small things like that.

"I mean if we were to move to Ireland, isn't there jobs like in the states that you can just get to work? Like minimum wage jobs such as working at a grocery store, waiter or waitress at an restaurant. Small things like that."

No, there aren't that many jobs. The Unemployment rate is high (higher than in the States) so there are many applicants for every opening. And even if there were a lot of job opportunities, you wouldn't be eligible. All Irish people, all British people, most all European people would have priority/legal right to work. You wouldn't.

"I haven't heard how difficult it is to get into the states. Is it just as hard or harder than going to Europe?"

Yes - it is very hard.

I'm not aware of any countries that allow random foreign citizens to simply emigrate there. For people from most countries to have a chance to get to the US is a lottery - most people are never allowed in and those that are may have to wait for years.

If you enter Ireland as a tourist you are allowed to stay 90 days. If you stay longer you are illegal and can be deported on the spot if found. You are not legally allowed to work - so would be hired only for jobs that are illegal (cash under the table) and often not even that. Why hire you when they can easily hire a local person legally - and not risk a penalty for having illegal workers?

If you're not aware of how difficult it is to get into the US - the huge discussions about illegal immigrants, how to keep them out, how to prevent them using scarce government resources - I'm sorry, but you must be living under a rock. Or do you think that your moving to Ireland illegally is somehow different than someone from Mexico or Guatemala entering the US illegally?

I really think that you need to learn a whole lot more about the world before you consider trying to live in a foreign country.

Kyle, what about Longhorn's suggestion of a year of study abroad in Ireland? It seems like the best way for a young person to go abroad and spend an entire year there. That's much better than going there for a few weeks in the summer.

"I can say that a lot of large companies have stopped doing their exchanges and secondments to the extent that they used to."

That's absolutely not my experience. My +/- 30 yo nieces and nephews are being transferred abroad, or being headhunted to foreign jobs, to a degree unheard of in my early adulthood. But there are two crucial points:
- They're moving to where there's a call for their expertise - not to a country they've always dreamt of working in. Actually none ever did dream of living somewhere else: there are just better jobs on offer in China, Australia or the Gulf than at home.

- They've been working long enough to have established a real CV with real, marketable, achievements - usually with some industry reputation or record of published work.

They're also rarely doing the work their degrees would predict, and all share the philosophy that the world's their oyster. None wasted time after university on pointless jobs.

I don't know a single businessperson anywhere in the world who can effortlessly find managers of the quality he needs at home. If you want to work abroad, there's never been a better time than now. But the passport is to get real experience under your belt in your home country, where you speak the language, have the right intuitive understanding of how things work to network properly and are likely to be able to survive periods of no income far more easily than in a foreign country.


Businesses these days are more than happy to hire foreigners who present themselves as one of the world's greatest experts in (say) cost cutting bakery operations - which is why the big issue in London (where the tidal wave of foreign managers is showing no sign of abating)is the growing frustration businesses are feeling at immigration restrictions. Where jamikins is right, though, is saying that companies no longer move junior people round the world as part of their training. They want the right man or woman for a specific job - which means stuff on the CV.

Nothing wrong with getting a working holiday visa. But there's a high chance of starving if you're competing with hundreds of locals (and in Ireland, dozens of highly educated Poles) for that shelf-filling job. All those competitors have the advantage of living free in the huge new, low-interest mortgage, house their parents bought during the days of the Celtic Tiger and now can't sell. And of the unabashed preference Irish employers have of giving work to their town's immense pool of young unemployed.

Fodors is a great forum for travel advice. However, if you intend to relocate overseas, you should instead be checking (1) the country's embassy in the USA, and (2) websites and forums dedicated to people who moved, or desire to move, to that country too.

For the latter, a google search to begin is "expats Ireland." Make sure you seek out info and advice from fellow Americans, Canadians, Australians and others who are not from EU countries. The rules are much different.

You may find a way. Or you may find that you can't qualify at this stage in your life. If that's the case, don't give up on your dream, you may still get there someday. Speaking from experience

In my last UK business (in a small market town) we had a small call centre, as well as the local English types with a nice voice and pleasant manner we had two Czechs, one with a BSc and one with a Masters and one Russian with their equiv of a Masters. Please note that the Russian had married an English guy and that they were all on minimum (legal minimum) wage. Our Marketing team were all Polish (on slightly better than minimum) and our designer was originally Indian.

A lot of Ireland will have hints of this structure in its smaller businesses

At nytraveler,

First off, I wouldn't be going to Ireland with the intentions of staying illegally. Clearly that would be an idiotic choice on our part. Also, if we were to move to Ireland illegally obviously that would be the same as illegal immigrants entering the US from other countries as well. All I was doing was asking some questions to build up some information on the idea of moving. Why would I care how hard it is to get into the states when I don't need that information?

At flanneruk,

Thanks for all of that information. I have considered acquiring a working holiday visa. I think my best bet is to obviously acquire more information on all of this and probably just visit Ireland for now. It seems as if the competition with everyone in Europe for a job pretty much cancels out the realism of me getting hired.

At Nutella,

Thanks for the information and being positive unlike some people on here. Lol have you recently moved abroad or somewhere you've always wanted to?

At bilboburgler,

That sounds really cool. Thank you for the information you provided.

At Camporico,

I have considered that as well. I think that would be a really good avenue to pursue.

At janisj,

Thanks for your information.

KyleDollar:

This is one of my dreams. I'm 43, and have 25 years of experience in my field (Accounting), and am finding it very difficult to transfer. It is possible, I know people who have - but difficult, especially in this economy. You have several options, all long-term.

Save up enough to buy or create a business over there. If you can prove your ability to create jobs, you have a better chance of being accepted as an immigrant.

Take a graduate degree there. It will allow you to build contacts necessary to find employment, learn what it's like to live there, etc.

Transfer over - just because it's difficult doesn't mean it's impossible. Many companies here have branches/offices there. Google's EU headquarters, for instance, are in Dublin.

If you (perchance) qualify for a position that's over E60,000, you can get a green card rather than a work permit. The advantage of this is that the company can hire you without proving that no EU citizen can fill the job first. Granted, this difficult right out of college!

Move to another EU country and get EU citizenship. Then you can live and work in any EU Country without a work permit. Again, this is a long term deal. However, not all countries are in as bad financial straits as Ireland is right now.

If your parents or grandparents were born in Ireland, you may be eligible for Irish citizenship. Do some research.

Good luck!

Thanks so much for that information. Now you said about taking a degree over there. I'm currently enrolled at Michigan State University. If I were to transfer over there or take more schooling, wouldn't I still have to acquire a work permit even if I found employment? Also, if I had the idea of say opening up a recording studio or restaurant, would they allow me to open this business without having a work permit? Once again thanks for this information. It was really helpful.

There is a Third Level Graduate Scheme to enable recent graduate in Ireland to work up to a year:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/GraduateScheme.pdf/Files/GraduateScheme.pdf

There is a range of schemes for investors and entrepreneurs. See http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/types_of_employment/self_employment/coming_to_set_up_a_business_in_ireland.html. Most have a high capital investment requirement ranging from 300,000 euro to 2 million euro. For a really innovative project, an entrepreneur visa with 75,000 euro input may be possible.

I just came back from my 20th trip to Ireland...my mother lives there. I have lots of friends with grown children and almost all of them have had to leave the country to get jobs...and, they have all had degrees. One is in China teaching English, many are in Austrialia and a few are in England. It is really sad they have to leave...however, they are all enjoying themselves also learning about their new countries. The ones in Australia have found a big Irish community there, though its very far from home.

Keep researching and don't let go of your dreams! You just might find a way!

As someone who lives in Ireland my reaction to this is "are you crazy??". Even if you had a visa sorted out our current economic situation is dire, jobs are so hard to come by, the cost of living - including rent and utilities - is very high and things are unlikely to get better any time soon. Restaurants are going broke at a rate of knots all over the country, and there are plenty of recording studios already so you'd want to be able to offer something pretty special to succeed.


You'll get more information about getting a visa at the Department of Foreign affairs website (www.dfa.ie) or contact your local consulate (there a list at the DFA website). And yes, if you are a student you still need a work permit if you want to get a job. Alternatively - as someone else pointed out - if you have an Irish grandparent, you can qualify for dual citizenship - which would mean that you don't need a visa to work in any EU countries.

Still - I'm not getting the feeling that you have researched this at all thoroughly. I think you may have a bit of a rose-tinted view of the country. Try reading the online newspapers like irishtimes.ie or independent.ie to get an idea of the current state of the place. Also take a look at websites like boards.ie, thejournal.ie and broadsheet.ie to get an idea of what life is like here.

Finally, consider taking a holiday here before making any hare-brained decisions. Two weeks in winter could cure you of any notions of living here. If you change your mind after that, and are willing to jump through all the hoops necessary to get a visa and a job, then good luck!

Kyle -

Not understanding how the world works is going to be a major challenge to you - no matter what you want to do. And since you want to emigrate to Ireland - than knowing something about the overall topic of emigration would seem to be an obvious necessity. (If you did the rules for Ireland - similar to almost everyplace else - wouldn't be so surprising or confusing to you.)

People here are giving you all sorts of good information - which you really don't seem to want. There have been several suggestions about possible ways of living in Ireland and doing some short-term or part-time work to at least see what the situation is like.

But you just keep coming up with new schemes that avoid the realities.

If you are independently wealthy - you can probably find a way to buy a going business there and have some sort of residential visa. There are also visas for people that are retired and can prove substantial wealth, full health insurance etc - but don;t allow the entrants to work.

Really suggest that you contact the nearest Irish embassy or consulate and ask them for specifics on all your plans. Since none of us are immigration attorneys there is a limited amount we can do to help you.

A new college graduate, with presumably no mortgage, kids with college tuition bills, or established job yet? Not quite sure how, under these circumstances, wanting to take a chance and experience life abroad qualifies as "hare brained?"

Kyle$, yes, I'm an American now living (legally!) in Europe. Under circumstances that make most traditional-minded people I know very uncomfortable. But as far as I know, you only live once...

Will you or your girl friend be qualified to teach? If so, you might look into International schools or DOD schools. No DOD schools in Ireland, but might be International schools. Just reaching here for ideas. Strongly rec that you find a way to spend three months in an apartment in Ireland (not traveling around on a vacation, but living an everyday kind of life) to see if you would really be happy there anyway.