flyme2themoon

Sorry>> im reposting this to the UK forum. incorrectly posted to the Austria forum earlier.


didnt want to add this to swede50's thread, but my questions are somewhat related to his;

1. there's 3 of us travelling together and we would like to take advantage of the 2 for 1 offers with the paper Travelcard. what's the best way to take advantage of this promo with us being an odd number-person group? Shall we just buy 1 Travelcard for the 2for1 offer and the third person pays full admission price for the attractions? ( which makes it a 3 for 2 offer for us)

2. we plan to visit the Tower of London, Westminster Abbey, St Paul's Cathedral and many of the predictable biggies ( except Madame Tussaud's and London Eye) and some of the free museums. If Harry Potter tour is on offer, we might do that too. one of us is a first timer in London, and the other 2 of us havent been back in about 12 years, so we dont mind seeing the big sights again. if it does end up being a 3for2 offer for us, is it worth going to a train station to buy a paper travelcard for that 1 day when we are planning to visit the included attraction? if not for the 2for1 promo, we were just going to buy a PAYG Oyster for the convenience of it.

3. to buy the paper travelcard, are they only available at the following stations: st pancras, kings cross, paddington, marylebone, victoria,waterloo, liverpool, london bridge?

thanks in advance for your responses.

janisj

The short answer is for any days you want to use a 2for1 voucher, two of you will need paper tickets. The 3rd person will pay full price so there is no reason for one person to ever have a paper travelcard. You could get 1 Oyster loaded w/ a weekly travelcard and two paper travelcards - or 3 paper travelcards, your choice.

>><i>3. to buy the paper travelcard, are they only available at the following stations: st pancras, kings cross, paddington, marylebone, victoria,waterloo, liverpool, london bridge?</i><<

That is part of the list . . . Others include Charing Cross, Euston, Kensington/Olympia, and several others.

NOTE: It is Liverpool <u>STREET</u> station.

BigRuss

As I said on your other thread:

Can't have a 2for1 offer without two - that means TWO people need the paper travelcard, not one.

I think if you're going to be in London for more than 4 days, it makes sense to buy a week-long travelcard. You can load a seven-day travelcard onto the Oyster, but it's useless for the 2for1 sites. That said, paying an additional 10+ GBP for a one day travelcard for TWO people makes no sense because that will wipe out the PAYG savings (if any) because you're going to hop on the Tube or bus more than you think - that means JUST GET THE TRAVELCARD FOR TWO PEOPLE.

And you need to determine what 2for1 sites you want to visit. The Cabinet War Rooms (now called the Churchill War Rooms - UK needs to celebrate Churchill now that its current slate of politicians are so weak), Hampton Court Palace, various London Walks and the Tower are available on the 2for1 offers. The Tower alone makes the offer worthwhile - normal fee is about 17 GBP ($25).

flyme2themoon

thanks janis and bigruss for the clarification. we will buy 2 paper travelcards and 1 PAYG oyster. we will be in london for a total of 7 days but will be driving out to the cotswolds for 1 day and bath, stonehenge on another day.

littlerunaway

if you're in London for a week, in addition to the 2 paper travelcards, load the Oyster with a week travelcard also (not just PAYG).

indy_dad

I don't think so. Why pay for duplicate travelcards (paper + plastic)?

texasbookworm

fly--I think your plan is best (Maybe little and indy didn't read all your specifics, e.g., there are 3 of you so need 3 travel "devices" of some sort and you are interrupting your week stay with day trips so you aren't in London 7 consecutive days.) For our 2 week stay in London with several day trips, we used PAYG Oyster and we saved a little over what we would have paid loading 7-day travel onto said Oyster, even though we used the Tube a little on most of our day trip days to get to train stations. It's not a big savings but for us it was a bit.

xyz123

I used to use 4 days as my cut off for a 7 day travelcard (let's eave 2 4 1 aside just for a moment)...what I've found is I will do about the same with 5 days {AYG as with a 7 day card as there are sure to be at least a day or two where you hardly do any public transport but what I've also found is the difference is not that great one way or the other, certainly not something that woujld break your vacation budget. Also bear in mind, the whole extension ticket set up can be very excpensive and convoluted when using the paper 7 day travelcard say on the day you go out to Hampton Court, within the tfl jurisdiction but out in zone 6. So having said that, I think the easiest thing to do is 2 payg oysters and either a third or a 7 day travelcard on oyster for the third person....then on the day before you're going to do a 2 4 1, stop by a nationbal rail station and pick up a one day travelcard for the appropriate zones for the next day. I think this might be the simplest and when all is said and done will probably not cost more than to go the paper7 day travelcard route.

BigRuss

HUH? Xyz, your suggestion makes no sense. The easiest trip to Hampton Court is by rail from Waterloo (that would not necessitate the 7-day paper travelcard because the rail tickets to HCP would work with the two-for-one) but they claim to want to hit "the biggies" - that means Tower, Cabinet War Rooms, possibly the Tower Bridge climb and more that are covered by the two-for-one, and the time period is likely more than 3 days, therefore your own suggestion that they get a travelcard fits. If they're going to get a travelcard anyway WHY BUY DAILY TRAVELCARDS FOR THE DAYS THEY WANT TO USE THE 2-4-1 OFFERS, that's just extra money to spend.

Makes no da*n sense.

xyz123

Question without screaming at me..;..how do they get to Hampton Court to use the 2 4 1? Their paper zone 1-2 travelcard would need an extension, right? So they would have to purchase two zone 3-6 tickets for cash,right? Now, look at it this way....with the caps in effect for PAYG say for 5 days of use, you're at £35 yes more than a 7 day zone 1 & 2 but then add on say the extension fare from Heathrow depending on how you come in from Heathrow...that's an extra £4.50 for an extension, right and the extension back to Heathrow...and what about5 the day you go out of town on the train and within London only use one return trip for that day...that's £3.80 for that day....when you start thinking about it, the difference with 5 days of use or less between using straight PAYG and a 7 day card is really not to great if any and could be less...now add on the difficulty of extensions where necessary with te paper travelcards...the extensions possibly needed for initial trips and final trips to Heathrow if necessary and using PAYG is much more viable than you might think and the idea of the day before stopping by a rail station for the one day travelcard the next day...well if you do most anything you will be near enough to a rail station (you go to the theatre, you're right by Charing Cross, aren't you for the most part) makes this seem to work....is it possible you'll do a tad worse with PAYG yes if it's important to get the ABSOLUTELY GUARANTEED cheapest way of doing so but as I said it seems to me more convenient to work with PAYG oysters and individual one day cards when needed for 2 4 1's.

Now if my arithmetic is off, please show me.

xyz123

That should be £33.50 for 5 days of use reaching the cap each day and remaining within zones 1 & 2...

flanneruk

The simple truth about London fares is that trying to optimise your tickets in advance is a mug's game. You may not be a mug before you start: but trying to do it is an infallible recipe for insanity, so you'll be a mug afterwards

You can't predict your plans hour by hour. The difference between two different suggestions rarely adds up to more than a couple of percent -even if you follow your original plan (which you won't, unless you're more interested in slavish adherence to plans conceived in ignorance than in having a holiday).

The time wasted doing those calculations is astronomical.

Just take an approximate decision. Then fuggedabout it.

xyz123

...AND THAT'S NOT EVEN DISCUSSING ALL THE PERMJUTATONS REGARDNG FARES FOR YOUNG PEOPLE!

xyz123

Cap lock was on...sorry

BigRuss

The simplest thing to do is get two paper 7-day travelcards and not mess around with dailies because they just add to the PAYG Oysters.

And the flaw in your math is the notion that the OP should take the Tube and bus to Hampton Court Palace - that's just a two-hour ride to skip a minor amount of the difference between the Zone 6 supplement and the Train fare from Waterloo on the Southwest trains. Ridiculous. Take the direct train from Waterloo, save the time and use the 7-day travelcards, not OYSTER cards, for everyday use so you can go to wherever you want whenever you want and use the two-fer discounts.

I explained this the first time I responded: take the flippin' Southwest train from Waterloo to HCP and don't worry about the zone permutations. Saving nickels but spending 1.5 hours in transit each way seems flat stupid. Is your time worth nothing?

xyz123

Again, the fly in your ointment remains the extensions. I should take flanner's advice and bow out of this but not mentioned is what the OP is doing for trasport from the arrival point in London...if they're coming in via eurostar then they'll be in a national rail staton...if they're coming in from Heathrow, will they use the tube? If from Gatwick, then the whole discussion might be academic as they could buy a return ticket Gatwick into London and be covered for the entire time they're in London.

The 7 day zone 1 & 2 paper is useless to get to Hampton Court but you can buy a paper zone 1-6 travelcard and use it on the trains from what I understand the day they're going there...if they're using a paper zone 1 & 2 travelcard, it's an addition...if using PAYG on oyster, they're losing nothing as they wouldn't use the two oysters that day. You have to add on the cfosts of getting here and there to the simple cost of a 7 day zone 1 & 2 travelcard so it's really not a simple answer one way or the other. As flanner said, you really don't know what the absolute cheapest will be as you really can't plan your day to day of what you're going to do so it isn't worth making a great big deal.

From my own personal experience, and that's all I can use, I have done it both ways. I visit my friends in London two or three times a year (it's really a short hop from NYC and watch for the fare deals especially off season)....I have found that in my recent trips, there are many days I use either only the buses or make one round trip on the tube and that's it. Some other days I hit the cap and I do somewhat better for 5 days with PAYG (this includes trips in and back to Heathrow)...for four days, with the zone 1 & 2 cap, it would come to less than a 7 day zone 1 & 2 7 day be it national rail or on oyster...yes I know the tfl media are no good for 2 4 1's and perhaps you might consider it a pain the day before to purchase a 1 day card for the next day which simply acts in lieu of the oyster PAYG for that day. In any event, when all is said and done, is it going to be all that much different considering how much you are probably spending for your holiday??

Over and out.

flyme2themoon

wow! havent checked back in since my last post. enjoyed reading the discussion on the topic. some specifics on our travel plans: we will be flying in from EDI into LHR and take tube from the metro. if there's a rail station at LHR, we will buy 2 travelcards there and pay the supplement and the third person's fare from the PAYG oyster. load oyster with 20-30 GBP and top up as needed.

we will be in london for 7 days. will pick up rental car from PAD on either day 4 or 5 to day trip to bath. then another out of town trip on day 5 or 6 to cotswolds. we will pick up our rental car from PAD. as pointed out in the discussions above, our plans in london are quite fluid, but we will definitely visit some of the biggies i.e. TOL, cabinet war rooms so the paper travelcards are handy for the 2-4-1 deals. but since there's 3 of us, the 2-4-1 offer is useless for the third person, so the plan is to buy 2 travelcards and 1 PAYG. use the PAYG oyster for the third person's daily fare plus all the supplements we need to pay if we somehow end up outside zone 2. no plans to go to Hampton Court due to time limitations.

so 2 travelcards and 1 PAYG for the 3rd person. ( unless the experts here in this topic can point out the flaw to this strategy ). thanks all, enjoyed reading the incisive discussion.

xyz123

Okay here the crux of the problem that is causing all this discussion.....if the 2 4 1's were not there, the solution would be simple. The advice would be to put a 7 day tgravelcard onto 3 oystercards for zones 1 & 2 with a little bit of extra for pay as you go for the trip in from LHR and probably the trip back to LHR. This would work fine but the damn 2 4 1's for the 2 people.....

You see there are basically 2 kinds of "travelcards" (I think you mean 7 day travelcards and they do exactly the same thing i.e. they give you unlimited use of London transport (except perhaps although I'm not sure of this) within zones 1 & 2 plus all buses for 7 consecutive day. Anything you from from tfl, the conglomeration running the Underground and the buses within London, will be electronically impaled so to speak on an oyster card which is simply something that looks like a credit card with a chip. You don't get any sort of paper media for this. You can't get any sort of paper media for this. The card requires a £5 deposit. The vehicle everybody here is talking aout and recommending is a 7 day travelcard issued by the ticket officer of one of the national railways available at one of the national railway stations such as at Victoria or Charing Cross or London Bridge or Paddington. It is NOT available at Heathrow. There is no ticket agent there of the national railways period So..if you need to do a 2 4 1, assuming you have to get into London via tube, you have to purchase transport from Heathrow to wherever you're staying in London, get yourself to a national rail station (perhaps pay another single fare if you want to stop at your hotel first) and only then get the required 7 day paper travelcard issued by a national rail ticket office. There are other ways to do this say take a coach from Heathrow to Victoria Coach Station, walk a couple of blocks to Victoria rail station and then buy the 7 day travelcard and now this is where Big Russ who may not understand how oyster PAYG comes in and I still stand by my suggestion especially since I see here we're talking about 5 days of use.

You have an alternative on buying an oyster card. You can dispense with impaling (i love that word) a 7 day travelcard on the oyster card and simply put a sum of money on the card called pay as you go (PAYG). You pay for each trip but pay far far less for each trip than you would for cash. You need not worry about just how much. The nice thing about PAYG on oyster is that it has a daily cap; when you reach that cap every thing else you do that day is free. The cap is set at the same price it would cost to buy a one day travelcard whether it be from tfl or from the national railways (I think it is £6.70 for one day's use in zones 1 & 2 as long as the first trip is after 0930 on a weekday although any time on a weekend. If you have to, you can look up all the fares on the tfl web site. But say if on a given day you only make one return trip on the tube, then you pay £3.80 total (you might bne interested to know the same trip on the tube paying cash is £8)...of course this is not valid for the 2 4 1's. We all get that so....the national railways issue one day travelcards which have the same conditions as a one day card issued by tfl but these cards are valid for the 2 4 1's. So the way to do it is the day before you intend to do a 2 4 1, stop by during the course of the day a national rail office and buy a one day travelcard on their ticket stock for the next day....in the normal course of events you'll probably at some point find yourselves near a national rail ticket office. On tat day, leave the 2 oyster cards of the 2 people doing the 2 4 1's home....use those paper travelcards to get to and fro say the Tower of London and then onto the Churchill War Rooms or whatever, do the 2 4 1's and it costs you exactly the same it would have cost by using yhour oyster cards that day as they would cap at the same exact amount.

In my heart of hearts, for 5 days, I really believe this is the best way to handle the situation...I might even consider doing it that way for 6 days.

The other alternative on the day of arrival at Heathrow for use that day buy an off peak (that is after 0930 on weekdays) zone 1-6 1 day travelcard for use that day. It won't be valid for the 2 4 1's (for the two people, the third can load a 7 day trravelcard for zones 1 &2 on oyster)....do whatever you want...at some point during that day stop by a national rail office, buy a national rail 7 day travelcard (for the 2 of you) starting the next day and then you won't have to worry about any or all of this again but you'll have a couple of unused days at the end.

And as I said, if the third person is a child under 16, then there are loads of other complications too (good ones to save money) but I haven't figured them out yet.

Look, again, flanneruk is right. When all is said and done the difference is not so great that that you should worry about having your holiday ruined by it. For the most part, if you do either of what I suggested above, it'll be about the same. The thing you don't want to do is to start buying individual fares for cash on the London underground. You can easily find yourself out £32 unnecessarily before you know it!

texasbookworm

Well, each of you has to hold his own ticket for all trips. So you can't use the Oyster card to pay for all 3 of you when you travel outside of zones. If I misunderstood, then never mind.

That's why you MIGHT reconsider this idea--each of you purchase an Oyster card at LHR upon arrival. Tell agent your plans and he/she can suggest how much to load on it. Then they are all 3 good for all zones all times--just different amounts will be subtracted depending upon your trip, and there are different daily caps set, depending upon zones and times. Then the day before you plan to go to a place that takes the 2for1 vouchers, stop by a TRAIN station in London and buy 2 one day travel passes.

This way each of you will have your own card, as needed. You will be able to purchase these upon arrival at LHR and ride into London. You won't "waste" a day on a 7-day-card if you aren't using public transport on your day trips as the 7 days are consecutive and if you don't use transport that day, too bad, you've paid for it anyway.

I think the 7 day travel cards turn out to be better than PAYG/maybe a savings IF you are IN zones 1-2 for over 4 consecutive days. Otherwise you are "wasting" days you've paid for and you have to buy extensions to travel in other zones also, like from and to LHR.

To us this was the easier route--buy Oyster cards at LHR upon arrival, load them up with suggested amount, use them whenever we wanted, didn't use them a couple days, topped them up when running low (easy to check), spent less most days on its cap than one-day's-worth on a 7 day card, got the balance left on them back when we left LHR--and on the day before we went to the Tower and the Tower Exhibition, we got one-day travel cards at Victoria TRAIN station and used 2for1 vouchers to save nice amount.

The only "problem" with my plan above is the inconvenience of having to make a trip to the station to get the oneday card, but it worked out great for us.

texasbookworm

(Oh, I think xyz and I were posting about the same time--and I think we said basically the same thing--so you might seriously consider "our" alternative--get PAYG Oysters from LHR, later in week stop by train station in London some time and get your one-day paper tickets on day before/morning of needing such for 2for1 offers)