I too would visit Istanbul and Cappadocia before Ephesus. And that is not to denigrate Ephesus, the other two are simply spectacular.

I very much enjoyed Ephesus. If you can't do one night nearby, a day trip from Istanbul would be a long day but doable. I know of someone who did that with some tour company, they flew to somewhere (Izmir?, I don't recall) from Istanbul.

I was deeply impressed with Ephesus and very, very glad that I saw it - even though I have seen many other ancient ruins. For my interests, it would make sense to find a way to include it, even if you have to cut a day or even two from istanbul. But that's based on my interests. If you do go to Ephesus, I strongly encourage you to include a visit to the terrace houses (for which there is an additional charge). Remarkable!

Hope that helps!

After 2 trips to Turkey, I still rate Ephesus as one of the most spectacular places. If you don't plan to return to Turkey, I recommend you find a way to get to Ephesus.

Enjoy your Turkey travels - and my favorite, their food.

Purduegrad,

i am almost betting that you will get back to Turkey, unless your main interest regards traveling relates to compiling lists of places you have visited.

If you're interested in antiquity, Istanbul and Cappadocia has examples from only four or five of the antique civilizations among twenty odd which have left structures and artifacts of their existence and life styles in this large by European standards country which has been a crossroads for too many.

If you're interested in nature, the mountains, forests, lakes, rivers, canyons, paths, waterfalls, remnants of glaciers, deserts, birds, endemic flora equal more than any one single European country.

If you're interested in social anthropology, culture and psychology. the local culture is very indigenous, a mix of ancient Anatolian and Balkan civilizations, various sects of islam, christianity, Shamanism, Zoroastrianism, Central Asian traditions. The people are also rather more friendly, curious and hospitable than you will meet most places.

the infrastructure is quite good in terms of transportation, flights, roads, bus, car rental. hotels are good. Food is very varied, different and suitable for vegetarians as well as carnivores. (yesterday we had fresh asparagus with lemon, garlic and sesame seeds, some wraps of sorrel leaves containing bulgur, tomato and red pepper paste and fresh basil, and grilled chicken thighs marinated in fresh ginger, lemon grass, lime, turmeric, garlic chili sauce, sumak and olive oil with a side of black jasmine rice pilav with butter)

These our our home specialties and would not be available at any restaurant in turkey, but you would taste many other excellent stuff. The region around ephesus is terrific in terms of wild salad greens which you should try possibly at the restaurant of Hotel Bella, if you do get there.

Just to give you an idea of what you may come back to, check the following names on the web :

- mardin
- hasankeyf
- halfeti
- rum kale
- zeugma
- gobekli tepe
- saint simeon stilit jr.
- tunnel of titus
- church of Saint peter at Antioch
- Olba
- Kizkalesi
- Side
- anemurium
- ermenek
- catalhoyuk
- alacahoyuk

Oh, OC, you are most persuasive! You may well be right and we will return. (And if we do, can we come to your house for dinner? Yum.)

Our travel destinations are ones that interest us and when we go we spend a lot of time prior learning about the culture and geography, to better appreciate what we're seeing and doing (and eating). I've used this forum with great success in planning trips to Hawaii, France, the Canadian Rockies, Italy ... and now Turkey. We usually choose to spend a good chunk of time in one place so as to really get to know it (thus the relatively lengthy stay in Istanbul) rather than taking a Readers Digest tour of a country ("if this is Tuesday, must be Konya"). That being said, we try to make a special effort to include the agreed-upon highlights -- thus the Ephesus question.

I have read much about the graciousness of the Turkish people, and we are looking forward to being in a country with such a rich history and a culture so different from ours. You have certainly been a wealth of information and have already provided much guidance and insight as we've been putting this trip together. I'm sure there will many more questions during the next couple of months as we near our departure. If we do return for a second trip, it will be in no small part due to your influence!

Just for the record, I am leaning towards making a day trip (albeit a long day) to Ephesus; DH says that he doesn't want to spend the whole vacation in airports. We'll see...

I would urge you to get to Ephesus if you can. It's not really "just another ruins" site - it's tremendously impressive.

If you can work it be sure to see Ephesus..Awesome is not the word. Is there a word beyond awesome in the superlative lexicon??? The terrace houses are an absolute must.Unbelievable what was possible in the world of building!!!

purduegrad, My younger daughter did Ephesus and terrace houses for graduation project at SAIC.) She did my now deceased cousin's wooden house in istanbul for her Masters thesis in restoration preservation.)

If you are still in istanbbul after Oct 31, you're welcome to to our home for dinner or at least to join us for an iskender kebap at Bursa Garaj. (Our kitchen will be going through a majot overhaul while we are away.)

I am now posting past dinner plates and table settings in our home for my profile photos, changing them every few days.

I thank everyone for their input. I will start working on DH ...

OC, what a gracious invitation! We would love to meet you and your family. But alas, we are flying back to Chicago on November 1. I have read wonderful things about Bursa Garaj Iskender and we will be sure to not miss it. If (when) we return to Turkey, perhaps we will have the opportunity to meet. Or, do I remember that you're coming to Chicago in October? If you're here before October 18, we could perhaps share something very different, like a pastrami sandwich at Manny's Delicatessen or a cheeseburger at the Billy Goat or deep dish pizza at Lou Malnotti's. Food as evidence of great cultural differences!

I'm interested in what your daughter did with Ephesus for the Art Institute. Art, architecture, both? And has she pursued a career in restoration/preservation?

You should recheck with the airlines. We flew Izmir - Kayseri with at least three budget airlines (Atlasjet etc.)to choose from so going the other way should not be a problem .
From Izmir it is a quick hop by bus to Ephesus and you would return IZmir- Istanbul also quickly.
An overnight in nearby Selcuk would be delightful too!

Bursa garaj restaurant is in istanbul, within walking distance of Levend metro station, somewhat across from Canyon Mall. The owners managed to bring the cook(s) from the well known Bursa restaurant when they opened the simple restaurant some 7-8 years ago.

two fast food joints serve excellent doner kebap also. one, hole in the wall across from one of the entrances to the Grand bazaar (the one below the main gate across from nuru osmaniye mosque) in a narrow street. no place to sit or put your drink. the second, at besiktas shopping street, left corner of first left turn when you come from the main coastal street, or immediate right corner when you come from the W hotel.

Hacibey at Nisantasi also has a decent Iskender kebap. Your cholesterol levels should not make you ask them to hold the butter, at least that one time.

It will be bonito time when you arrive in istanbul, and if you are lucky also blue fish. the istanbul blue fish (lufer) is unequalled when grilled correctly. Bonito, if the right size (a medium single portion size)can also be good. Should not forget to take dainty bites of red onion with the bonito and arugula with the blue fish.

Check my "eating fish" thread for more detailed info.

we arrive in chicago on 20th or 21st of October, but thanks for the eatery suggestions. Will take a rain check since we frequently are in Chicago because of a blue eyed, mischievous girl and a bright, smiling boy.

Forgot to answer other question. Ceylan has an undergraduate degree in Interior Architecture and a Graduate degree in Historic preservation and restoration from SAIC. That is why we are currently in the poorhouse.

She is doing some freelance work because she had difficulty finding anything related to her specialty.

Bonito and blue fish will be new to us -- looking forward to trying those, and everything else! I am keeping a list of all of these suggestions in my little Istanbul Moleskine I've purchased for the trip. The food section is fatter than all the rest combined!

Tommmo, thanks for the suggestion, but we had chosen to fly to Nevsehir instead of Kayseri, and those flights have been already booked. But I have found that it is possible to visit Ephesus in a long day, and that's the tentative plan at the moment.

Thanks to you all!

purduegrad - i think what Tommmo is suggesting is that you take a flight from cappadocia to izmir, visit ephesus, possibly stay overnight at selcuk / kusadasi and then take a flight from izmir to istanbul. pegasus air flies on these routes.
But if your flight back to istanbul is booked and cannot be cancelled (dittoo for stay in istanbul), then the day trip from istanbul to ephesus is an option.

Ephesus is simply spectacular and I'd strongly urge you to try and fit it in, even if you plan to make many other trips to Turkey.

OK, you've convinced me to include Ephesus, especially since it is unlikely that there will be many other trips to Turkey (though OC is a persuasive advocate for at least one more trip!)

Our flights betwen Chicago and Turkey are already booked, as are the flights between Istanbul and Cappadocia (Nevsehir). DH wanted to minimize travel time so chose not to go via Kayseri, and the flights between Nevsehir and Izmir didn't work with our dates. And, our Istanbul apartments are set. So now the only real option is a day trip ... but, as my grandfather used to say, if someone else has done that, so can we. Might not be the best option, but, from the input here, better than missing Ephesus entirely.

There are many wonderful things that we I'll see and do in Turkey, and this my be the highlight, just because it will be so concentrated. Special efforts usually result in special experiences!

Good choice! Enjoy your trip!

Purduegrad

It is best that you can not eat at Other's apartment. He said he was going to make a fabulous home cooked authetic Turkish meal and then served us burgers and fries. And made us bring our own onions.

The special recipe required American onions. What can i say?

And, Adu was not prepared to pay for the use of our balcony for the privilege of taking fireworks photographs!!!!

He also mistreated his girl friend in our presence by sitting at the dinner table before she did.

He also mistreated his girl friend in our presence by sitting at the dinner table before she did.

That was no girl friend, that was my wife.

You guys are a hoot!

hope its ok to piggyback on this thread. i'll be in Istanbul in September (omg thats next month!) for a relatively short stay - 4 days - then Cappadocia for 2.5 days - then back to Istanbul for 2. I REALLY would love to do a long day trip to Ephesus. I hate the thought of missing it (specially after reading this thread). so, my question is - can anyone recommend a 1-day all inclusive? in other words, i dont want to get there and then try to figure out how to get around. thank you!

I believe Purduegrad is taking Atlas jet to izmir airport and back, which provides free shuttle serviıce to selcuk which is very close to ephesus. You can then take a taxi to Ephesus from the bus depot (upper entrance) and hire a guide or get an audio guide to walk you down. This can take anywhere from 2-4 hours depending on how interested you are. (take water at gate before you enter. have hat and sunscreen. also have some cat food if you love cats)

Take taxi back to selcuk from lower gate. have lunch at restaurant of Hotel Bella.

visit Selcuk museum.
visit saint john's basilica
visit the mosque next to the basilica
if it is a market day, walk through the excellent street market.
if you still have time, and are interested, you can take another cab to virgin mary's retreat (a small chapel in an idyllic setting).

So, you will not need a personal tour from Istanbul. If you still opt for one, ask locally at Nazhan hotel or Bella hotel which are next to each other, and they will help you get one for a reasonable price.

calla, OC is correct about doing our trip, but in another thread on this forum (http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/turkey-in-10-days-stick-to-the-well-beaten-path.cfm) MinnBeef mentions doing an all-inclusive day trip to Ephesus with a company called AboutEphesus, and Minn seems very pleased with them. I do believe that this company receives high marks from TripAdvisor. AboutEphesus probably booked the same flight that we're taking, as Minn mentions leaving at 7 AM, as we are. I believe that they will arrange a door-to-door trip, including airport transfer, flights, tour, lunch, etc. Minn says that they were very good to work with. I'm sure there are other companies that would be happy to do the same.

I'm just stubborn and want to do it myself (albeit with lots of help and advice from forums such as this one) as much as I can.

Oh, and whatever you choose, make sure your trip includes a visit to the Terrace Houses. I'm not entirely sure what all this entails, but I infer it was the ritzy section of town and you can see how first century members of the 1% lived -- St. Paul probably camped out on the other side of town.

> MinnBeef mentions doing an all-inclusive day trip to Ephesus with a company called AboutEphesus, and Minn seems very pleased with them.

I could be mistaken, but I don't think MinnBeef has taken his trip yet.

> make sure your trip includes a visit to the Terrace Houses. I'm not entirely sure what all this entails

As you approach the library from the upper gate, you will find a covered structure to your left - the Terrace Houses, for which there is a separate admission. Pay it!!! Still being excavated, you will enter a space of several interconnected multi-story homes with some absolutely stunning decorations - marble wall panels, murals, mosaics, columns.... Amazing.

No, kja, you're right. I misremembered what I read here and what I read on TA. The *TA* folks are very pleased with the company; hope MinnBeef will be, too.

Nope, I have not left yet but I CANNOT WAIT!!! I leave on the 24th. Yes, I have been very pleased with About Ephesus in that they were very responsive to my email questions. Not including the flight, which I booked on my own, I am paying $185 for an itinerary that includes Ephesus, including the Terraced Houses, Archeological Museum, Temple of Artemis, St. John's Basilica, and the House of the Virgin Mary.

PurdueGrad...I haven't kept up on all these posts. When do you leave and have you decided to include Ephesus?

thank you so much for responses. MinnBeef, i'm so interested in hearing how you like the AboutEphesus itinerary and guide once it is complete. Thank you for the $$costs. Its helpful in my decision-making. I think I will just wait till I get there and see if i can tear myself away for a day. We originally thought we were going to have plenty of time but now i'm bummed we didn't take a few extra days. Well... still SO excited to chill in Istanbul. On another note: I love smoking Hookah and looking forward to having the experience in Turkey. Does anyone have any recommendations? thoughts?

MinnBeef, we're not going until October, but we're already getting excited (maybe not as excited as you, but we still have two months to wait ).

We leave October 18, spend four nights in Sultanahmet, then go to Cappadocia for four nights, and then return for five nights in Beyoglu. And yes, we have decided to visit Ephesus, in a long day trip apparently very similar to yours, during the Beyoglu stay. Your comments are responsible, in part, for this decision -- figured that if you could do it in a day, then so could we. You'll see another question about the best way to get to the airport at 5 AM in another thread: http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/going-to-ephesus.cfm

I'll be looking forward to your posts when you get back. Hope you have a wonderful trip!

Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy. Turkey quickly became one of our favorite trips.

In case you confined to bed. Here is my Turkish trip report. You will see that Other is a recurring character.

http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/whos-in-charge-of-continents.cfm

Stop spamming the threads please.