I spent about a week several years ago in Kusadasi, having arrived from Naxos by ferry and liked it very much. Big enough and small enough for my taste in towns. Good place to stroll. We took a day trip from there by taxi to Ephesus. Sorry, don't recall the name of the accommodation but there are a number listed on Trip Advisor.

I hope to visit Kusadasi when we're based in Selcuk: it must be quite close.

We were thinking of going a bit further south after Selcuk -- where it should be warmer. (I see the forecast for next week in Bodrum and Antalya is about 21-22 C, which is quite OK.)

I also realize that if we were to head to the Antalya region, we should see Pamukkale on the way, not as a day-trip from Selcuk.

Ted, I spent 2 full days/1 night in Sirince and felt it was worth the time there. It's a very relaxing and pretty place, very steep hairpin bends (and no railings on the sides) ascending to the pretty little town/village at the top. If theres traffic on the way up as there was when I went, be prepared to do lots of hill balancing, especially if your car is a gear-shift. I did the drive back down at 3.30am in a fog on my way to Izmir airport and it was nerve wracking but fun executing those bends. Even had to change my shirt when at the bottom and before the long drive to Izmir for all the perspiration, lol.
I was there in late October so the olive groves, vineyards and fruit trees in Sirince still had a late harvest to wander/hike through which I enjoyed, but not sure what you will see in April. Lots of good local eating and drinking to be found there too.

Are you sure that you will be able to cover all those other destinations within day trips ? I could be wrong, but seemed to think that some of them (like Pammukale) seemed further away.

Half a day (9.00am - about 1.00pm) was ample time for me to cover Ephesus, leaving me the afternoon to go to a beach 5 Kms away. Its not a great beach, but is very wide, clean and long and is....a beach if you really want one.

Kusadasi is about 20kms from Selcuk so quite doable as a day trip. I didn't go there but others I know did and liked it sufficiently to spend more than a day there. It is a port town with more things going on, but is a popular cruise ship stop as well.

Don't miss the Ephesus museum located in Selcuk. It is small(ish) but filled with treasures nicely displayed.

For all the carpet pushing throughout my 3 weeks in Turkey, I ended up buying 2 antique ones in Selcuk.

There is a lot of scenic driving in the direction of 'Mary's House', and that site itself is a beautiful diversion for an hour.

The church of St. John is little more than a large ruin, looming above you in Selcuk. However I found it interesting with the assistance of a guide.

I did the same istanbul/Izmir route as you, but after dropping off the car at Izmir airport at 6.30am, took a flight to Kayseri and Cappadocia. Don't know if you're already going there, but if not, you may want to consider a few of these extra days there. Its fantastic ! Stay in a cave hotel, or a hotel offering cave rooms. The scenery and towns around there (Nevsehir, Urgup, Goreme, and others) are wonderful.

Mathieu:

Everything you tell me about Sirince, Selcuk, Ephesus and Kusadasi confirms my impressions.

I suspect we will see Pamukkale en route to the Antalya region or we will not see it at all. It is probably too far for a relaxed day-trip, as you noted. Viamichelin seems to think we can average only about 40 mph/ 60 kmh on Turkish roads.

We're pretty well committed to remain along the coast for the entire week. That is, our flights to and from Izmir are already booked.

I wanted to avoid racing around the country. Moreover, I was afraid Cappadocia might be too cold in April to be enjoyable.

On reflection, I might have done things differently. I'm sorry now that we won't see Cappadocia.

Beyond Kusadasi is a nationa park by on a peninsula which is quite nice.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/4209357664/in/set-72157623057771012

Aphrodisias is on the way to Pammukale.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mksfca/4209374560/in/set-72157623057771012

The shots of Aphrodisias are fascinating!

With a week in that region, I'd say 3 nights in Selçuk (for Ephesus, Selçuk town, Şirince), then drive south visiting Priene, Miletus and Didyma before spending a couple of nights at Lake Bafa (from where you could visit Euromos, Iasos and maybe Labranda) and then drive on up to Pamukkale (via Stratonikeia, Lagina and Aphrodisias) and spend a couple of nights there.

Something like that, it would be a pleasant circuit with a maximum of about 4-5 hours driving in any one day (i.e. the longest would be from Bafa to Pamukkale). Maybe spend your last night in Selçuk for easy access to Izmir airport (if so, maybe check out Nysa on the way back from Pamukkale).

Sorry if this sounds like a full-on ruins tour, but they're mostly in lovely positions in the countryside. Maybe just pick the ones that might interest you.
We've got all those sites listed with photos at the Megalithic Portal - http://www.megalithic.co.uk/article.php?sid=16883

One question to Croesus:
If we get away from the beaches and the heavily frequented tourist sites, will we have language problems?
We are multilingual but we speak not a word of Turkish. (I'm a bit freaked out -- uncharacteristically so -- about the language gap.)

One other concern I should flag: I've just looked into hotels and pensions around Lake Bafa. They seem a bit simple for my taste.

I like solid comfort (and good food) and ideally a bit of style. We don't insist on luxury.

I think we might have to cut back on our sight-seeing, if the price is staying in remote and possibly spartan accommodation and skimping on the gastronomic side.

Is it possible to have it all?

I hear what you're saying, Tegdale. Turkey isn't like France. However, if you look at, say, the Agora or Selene's at Bafa - I think you'll find the food will be pretty good (local fish and organic village vegetables, honey from the hives down the road, etc.), but I guess the accommodation might be a little spartan for your taste. And then again, although I've haven't stayed at either, I think the Bella at Selçuk is only a tad higher in standard (if that). I don't think you'll be "slumming" it. Maybe email them to ask how thick their mattresses are? (That's often the biggest gripe from North Americans).

I don't think you should worry too much about the language barrier, the Turks are some of the most welcoming and hospitable people I've ever come across and will go out of their way to help you out. Take a phrase book and they'll quite probably find the page you want in it quicker than you can (from my experience).

OK, you might not get the "bit of style" that you're looking for but I think that the positives far outweigh the apparent negatives. And you might be a little outside your comfort zone - well it is Turkey, after all.

Way below are some finished and unfinished trip reorts on the region, and photographs.

We just came back from our tiny Summer house in Nicea, and can write until I am called to watch the final episodes of "Revenge"

I wrote a longer version and the electricity went off and lost it all, so will have to summarize :

You can do everything in and immediate environs of Selcuk in one full day or at most one and a half days.

Check with owner of Nazhan hotel, just below Bella for the availability of their new larger new rooms. (Cemil akyurek, owner, speaks English, now retired, was a board member of a company with me many years ago.)

From selcuk, you can drive through kusadasi, Soke to Priene and then to Doganbey, Dilek lagoon and Karina, to finally get to Didyma for the evening. There, you can find decent lodging either at Didim or a bit further at Altinkum.

next day, the road will take you through Miletus to Bafa and the side road will lead to Herakleia (Kapikiri village) where you will pass by the olive orchard of my friend of 40 years from Atlanta, Lawrence. Interesting geological structures, very scenic village on ruins and decent restaurants with good view of monastery on tiny island. Do not eat mullet. (how about eels?)

Continue till Gocek if you can the same day or lodge at Akyaka/Gokova. Both locations will have good lodging.

Next day visit Tlos, Patara and Kalkan on your way to Kas.

From Kas, you can take the fabulous Kekova boat tour and possibly kayak over sunken ruins in 16-18 C seas with hopefully 25-27 in the shade air temp.

You will see photos of other places to visit and read of them below.

You can drop car at Dalaman airport to fly back and maybe even have the time to visit Phaeselis and push off all the way to Antalya.

Good luck. Send me another PM and i will give you telephone you can call if you have problems.



http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/to-carine-to-cnidos-with-a-brief-visit-to-magnesia-ending-in-phrygia.cfm?8

http://www.fodors.com/community/fodorite-lounge/carine-to-cnidos-dining-and-wining-without-fear.cfm?14


http://www.fodors.com/community/europe/5-day-4-night-trip-from-nicea-to-lykia-lydia-and-back.cfm?0

http://www.fodors.com/community/fodorite-lounge/fumbling-family-fearlessly-attempt-to-meet-lykians.cfm?39

http://travel.webshots.com/album/578798538VEOMIK

http://travel.webshots.com/album/578740185vRZRyr

http://travel.webshots.com/album/578816688RFqCoE

http://travel.webshots.com/album/578805076nuXMRF

That kayaking over sunken ruins in Kas sounds amazing. I'd be in for that. Especially if I could also dive in for a closer inspection now and then, when the sun was too hot.

Thx Otherchelebi.

I rented a car in Kusadasi for several days at the end of a group tour. Drove up to Bergama (Perganum), visited Asklepion, drove down through Golmarmara and checked out the tumulus mounds, stopped at Sardis, on to Aphrodisias before dark. I was one of five people at the hotel in June.

Visited Aphrodisias, then drove to Pamukkale, trekked up to the sacred pool, visited the necropolis, drove to Denizli and turned in my car.

Then I took an overnight bus (really nice) to Ankara, visited the citadel and museum, took a bus to Hattusas. Visited Hattusas and Alacahoyuk the following day, took a bus back to Ankara, then took the overnight train to Istanbul, spent another day then flew home.

I'd already been to Antalya and done a 5 day cruise of the coast, so was looking for something different.

I'd highly recommend Aphrodisias, a very nice site, and I was amazed by Sardis. I loved the museum in Ankara, and I really enjoyed Hattusas and Alacahoyuk.

Maybe you can visit Aphrodisias, Pamukkale, then head down to the coast. You can always save Ankara, Cappadocia, and Hattusas for your next visit

Thanks to all for the input.

I think we are locked into our car rental plans, incl. returning car at Izmir airport. Also our flight Izmir- Istanbul is booked and paid for.

If I'd been doing the planning myself, I would have worked out the itinerary, then made the bookings. I delegated to someone who does not have much experience in these things. Live and learn.

Here is the current state of our plans:

1. We have just received an invitation to visit (but not, I think, to stay with) friends who will be at their seaside house at Gocek on the weekend of the Independence holiday. We DO want to see them -- and they have a boat, which would be a real treat for us if the weather cooperates.

2. After we visit the Selcuk area and Ephesus, we have the choice to do Priene, Didyma, Miletus (Lake Bafa) etc as a daytrip OR to see them en route to points further south.

3. The main decision we now need to take, I think, is whether to make this a purely "coastal" holiday or whether to make time for Pamukkale, Aphrodisias, etc.

Aphrodisias looks exceptionally beautiful and I was quite looking forward to seeing it and the other nearby sites. Pamukkale looks visually intriguing but not a "must see at all costs".

Fodorites: Drop the Pamukkale portion of the trip -- or retain it?

On some of the other items:

I will check into otherchelebi's advice about alternative accommodation in Selcuk.

Mowmow, I think Ankara and Cappadocia are not possible on this trip. I want to keep it as simple and unhurried as possible.

I'm not sure I've assimilated all the material posted above. I certainly need to digest those trip reports and other links. So I may come back with more thoughts and questions (and will send a PM to OC)

I should also have commented that it was very kind of otherchelebi to reproduce his original advice after it disappeared in the power "outage".

I appreciate the effort that all of you have made and the interest that all of you have taken. But otherchelebi was especially generous.

Drop the Pamukkale portion of the trip -- or retain it?
I have a hard time deciding that also. We are going to the more or less the same places in May and as of now Pamukkale is in. I flip flop quite a bit on that one. It looks really beautiful in the picture and yes I know it has deteriorated and has become commercialized but a good soak in hot spring still sounds good to me. Maybe I'll start a new topic on my undecided itinerary.

Aphrodisias is spectacular and was very uncrowded when we visited. Pammukkale is a bit of a bust. The pools are much less extensive, full or blue than you might expect from the tourist brochures, and the scruffy town reflects the drop in the tourist trade. Click on my name and take a look at my trip report from May 2010. I thought Kas was a charming town, well worth a couple of days for relaxing. Antalya is a much larger city with a picturesque old town (very tourist oriented) and a wonderful local museum. Might be a bit of a haul back to Izmir, though. I found the driving in Turkey very easy, with excellent roads.

Yes, go to Gocek and visit your friends. It's a gorgeous place, and the weather should be nice.

You could visit Miletus, Priene, Didyma then divert over to Aphrodisias, spend the night. Visit Aphrodisias and Pamukkale the next day then drive down to Gocek.
Or, Miletus, Priene, Didyma, then on to Gocek. Pamukkale, Aphrodisias on the way back to Izmir. If short on time, skip Priene and then Pamukkale.

You don't need to spend so much time in Selcuk, Sirince, and Ephesus is a half day visit unless you are extremely into archeology. Lots of it is rubble, but the "library" is so outstanding, and the mosaic sidewalks so unique and beautiful it's worth it to try and imagine how beautiful this city used to be.

Skip Kusadasi unless your hotel is there. OK little city, but there are better places to spend your precious time. Gocek, Aphrodisias, and Pamukkale are better places.

We ended our coast cruise at Marmaris, got everybody on the bus, and visited Miletus (saw the theater) Didyma (Apollo temple) and made it to Kusadasi to the hotel in time for afternoon tea and popcorn. We could easily have visited Priene and gone on to Izmir if in a car. Gocek is a little farther, so that would be a long day, but doable, especially if you can share the driving, and you get an early start.

The speed limit is 70kmh in Turkey and they don't seem to often drive over it, although people go faster on the freeways. Just be careful and on the lookout, nobody stops at the Dur signs and there are animals and carts and tractors on the roads.

You won't have any problem with the language. A lot of younger Turkish people speak English, and charades always works. Have a guidebook with some basic phrases and you'll be fine. You'll feel very safe and everybody will be kind.

One recommendation : Traveling in April means you do not need to reserve hotel rooms in advance. You can easily find vacancies and be flexible. This will add to the pleasure you will get from your trip. Play it as you go along, stay longer at certain places, bypass others you do not like so much. See a market stop- the car and wander around. See a brown sign pointing to an antique site not in your program, take the bite and drive there to discover some place wonderful.

One update on speed limits "

Highway speed limits are 90km + 10% margin
Divided highways are 110km + 10%
Passing through towns or specially marked parts 70km or even 50km

Motorways 120km + 10% but usually no radar or speed checks and can go higher (drove 180-200km/hr between Gaziantep and Urfa ten days ago)

highways and especially divided highways have frequent radar, sometimes one after another with just 5-10km between them. (there were four one after another between Tarsus and Pozanti in the South, some years ago)

The radar is usually an unmarked car parked facing you on the shoulder or the median, sometimes with a door open or the trunk up. Good idea to slow down to speed limit whenever you see this car facing you on your side of the road. they call and send phographic info to the guys who will stop and fine you after a few bends on the highway.

Radar is usually within 3-10 kilometers on either side of a township (not a smaller village)

Our friends, the British Trip Advisor DEs Attagul and Dudisimo also live in Gocek (not on the seaside)

If you do decide to drive to denizli/pamukkale, consider stopping at one of many factory shops to look at bathrobes and towels which are extremely good and extremely cheap. Check especially for "Chakra" brand which has a great combination of cotton and bamboo fibers, resulting in a very light, soft and absorbent bathrobe.

I guess it depends on how much driving you feel comfortable with. Göcek is over 4 hours from Izmir airport, so you wouldn't want to do that on the morning of your last day, I think.

Croesus: agreed.

OC: thanks for the insider information on speeds and radar.

Aphrodisias and Pamukkale should feature in your plan in my opinion. They are not too far apart (if you drive by the Tavas road it takes about an hour and a half). I visited Aphrodisias last week and there were a number of coach groups around lunchtime - maybe better to get there early to enjoy the peacefulness of the place. Pamukkale's terraces are gleaming white, not that yucky colour they used to be. Anyhow, have a great trip!

I'd really like to see Pamukkale and Aphrodisias: We'll have to make some hard choices. Maybe we can crunch down our time in Selcuk/ Ephesus, as otherchelebi suggested...

If it was me...
4/17 arrival, Selcuk, Sirince, overnight Selcuk
4/18 visit Ephesus, drive to Pamukkale (2hrs), overnight there
4/19, visit Pamukkale, head for Aphrodisias, overnight there
4/20 visit Aphrodisias, drive to Gocek, o/n Gocek?
4/21,22 Gocek with your friends o/n Gocek?
4/23 early start, visit Didyma, Miletus, maybe Priene on the way back to Kusadasi/Selcuk, o/n there
4/24 back to Izmir

You could also do Aphrodisias/Pamukkale both on 4/19 and leave earlier for Gocek. You could stay the same place 4/18,19 in a central spot. You could leave Gocek 4/22 late afternoon and overnight near Didyma to get a jump on the return circuit.

I did Aphrodisias in the AM starting really early (I was the ONLY person there for my breakfast picnic, it was gorgeous)Then I went to Pamukkale, and I had to turn in the car by 6pm in Denizli. I would have liked more time in Hieropolis, it looked interesting. Pamukkale was a mess when I was there, they were doing a huge construction project that is now that big pool at the base, and the walk up was long, the travertines were ugly, and it was hard to get to Hieropolis with the car. I looks done now, so it's probably better. In June the lines were long, and it was really hot. 3-4 hours in Aphrodisias was plenty to see it all, Pamukkale needs about that to see Hieropolis, plus several more if you want to walk around the travertines and take a dip in the Sacred Pool at the top or the big pool at the bottom (I assume that's why they built that).

Decisions, decisions, I always end up wanting more time... You'll have a lovely time no matter what you choose.

We are doing that circuit, in essence, but in reverse.
First, Selcuk & Ephesus.
On Day 3 we will visit Priene and Didyma after our 2 nts in Selcuk. We will push on that evening via L Bafa to Akyaka.
Next 2 nights/ < 3 days in Gocek (wish we had more time)
We make a late start from Gocek on Day 6 and spend the night in Pamukkale, with a late day visit to the pools.
Next day is Hierapolis and Aphrodisias, with late day arrival at Kusadasi (Club Caravanserai)
Then we fly to Istanbul.

mowmow, where did you overnight at Aphrodisias?

We flew into Amsterdam yesterday after a great 13 days in Turkey. I'll try to write a trip report when I get back to Canada.

As a downpayment on that, I'll just report that we did follow exactly the itinerary and the allocation of time outlined above. I enjoyed each of our 4 full days (5 nights) in Istanbul. Of our 7 night trip outside that city, I'd say our high points were as follows:

1. Pamukkale/ Hierapolis. We could not stay longer than 4 hours -- otherwise we would have stayed longer, to swim and visit the museum.

2. Miletus: Pure magic. There were more sheep on the site than people.

3. Priene, Didyma, Xanthos, Afrodisias (each so different from the others -- we never tired of visiting ruins).

Letoon was OK but not as good as the others. We drove past Euromos without stopping, because it was late. I still regret that omission. Ephesus fully met my expectations but I treasured these unexpected pleasures even more.

4. Akyaka -- for the hotel (Baga Boutique Hotel) and the riverside restaurant (Orfoz) where we had a great meal.

Kusadasi (a crummy town) for the same reason: We slept and dines at the Club Caravanserail, a grand and unique 1618 stone building on the waterfront.If I were choosing again, I would choose that rather than Selcuk, as a base for visiting Ephesus.

5. Gocek, because we sailed there on a friend's boat. I took the helm for almost 4 hours (under his watchful eye) although I had not sailed for 30 years....

6. The Datca peninsula (other than Marmaris). A last-minute choice for a day trip. Superb scenery and we were alone on the road most of the time

7. The drive via Fethiye to Kas and back. The stretch of road from Kalkan to Kas is perhaps the most beautiful scenery I have ever seen.

8. The mountain scenery on our way from Gocek to Denizli -- and on what I thought was a "shortcut" from Pamukkale to Afrodisias (short on a map but very long because of the endless switchbacks)

I'm glad you had a good time and you enjoyed the excellent ruins of ancient cities there.

The Club Caravanserail has beeen intriguing me for a while, since it was built by Öküz Mehmet Paşa whose han at Ulukışla was the inspiration for the poem "Han Duvarları" (The Walls of the Han) by Faruk Nafiz Çamlıbel. (I've yet to find an English translation or visit those hans, but on my to-do list).

P.S. I'm trying to guess which "short cut" you took to Aphrodisias. Was it the little road through the mountains via Babadağ and over to Ataköy, if so, I admire your adventurousness.

We stayed at the Okuz.....Pasa Han at Kusadasi on our honeymoon a few centuries ago when it was run by Club Med and loved it. Did not know that it was open as a hotel again.

But Ted, did they have enough parking space for the camels?

We took the babadag road over a year ago in October and enjoyed the scenery a great deal, although some little kids threw stones at us passing through a village (see my 'fumbling family' trip report) Otherwise, the road was quite good and with almost no traffic.

The road is great as far as Babadag. After that, it is very twisty and this spring, there are a few places where a portion of the road has subsided. The road is still navigable but it's quite slow.

The rooms at the Club Caravanserail are a bit dated -- the furniture, in a very traditional style, looks as though it has served long and rigorous duty. However the bathrooms are more recent and quite serviceable.

The service in their courtyard restaurant is very good, at both breakfast and dinner. The architecture of the place, as some of you already know, is fabulous.

As for parking: there was a space right in front of the hotel and we left our car, there the whole time.

As always throughout this trip, we were awakened by the local muezzin around 5:45 AM. The muezzin of the nearby mosque was quite interesting, in a purely musical sense.

I was quite intrigued by his delivery, which was quite unlike what I had heard elsewhere on this trip. It had a quality of improvisation that was rather like a jazz singer's improvisations, with interesting pauses and apparently spontaneous "riffs".

Thanks so much, tedgale, for sharing your highlights! I'll be leaving for Turkey soon, and found your comments very helpful. I'm looking forward to so much, including the drive from Kas to Kalkan.

kja: If you are in the Kalkan area, I strongly encourage you to visit Xanthos. It is just a little north of Kalkan and very close to the highway. The setting is splendid. There is a theatre and also some fine tombs and a ruined Byzantine basilica. Unfortunately the mosaic floors in the basilica have been covered with tarpaulins to preserve them. However, this site is certainly still worth a visit.

Here is a link: http://www.lycianturkey.com/lycian_sites/xanthos.htm

Nearby Letoon is hard to find and is largely unexcavated and un-restored. I found the experience a bit flat....

Thanks so much, tedgale! I will definitely read up on Xanthos. And I see that you bookmarked my post on seasonal/regional foods. I'd welcome any recommendations you care to offer!

Thanks tedgale for your report. How was Pamukkale? Was it beautiful? Was it dried up like some people said?