Try café allongé, works for my husband.

If you order a cafe crème or au lait "à part" you will get about 1/2 a large cup of strong coffee with hot milk on the side. But, you pay more than you would for "un allongé."

Well let me try that, thanks! Is the "g" hard or soft? i.e. is it pronounced "gay" at the end?

type allongé (accent is a must) or allonger in http://www2.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php for the correct pronunciation of the word.

Small reminder, in French g is strong with a, o and u and soft with e, é, è and i (and y like in gynécologue complete opposite to your gynecologist) Good luck!

Hi Coco,

Hope you are well.

> in French g is strong with a, o and u ....<

So "Dordogne" is pronounce "door dog knee"?

Well, Ira - you've forgotten the "gn" rule! LOL You'd better get crackin' on the grammar books!

I always go for a noisette, but SO has his café allongé and it's big, but weaker than an espresso.

Or you could ask Pal's "French" son.

Michael----thanks for posting the pronunciation site. It works well and I definitely need it.

Or you could ask Pal's "French" son.>

yeh you could and get someone who is a native French speaker and not someone like St Cirq who uses archaic French that no French person under 100 would speak today - like A chacun a son gout or however that archaic phrase that St Cirq insists is in popular use today but is not - at least for the sous troisieme age crowd!

Wow PalenQ - that was snotty.

Adrienne - here is what St Cirq said about my son who was born and raised in France and got honors on his French BAC:

Or you could ask Pal's "French" son.

She is referring to some things I quoted my son as saying about correcting St Cirq in her adamant take that the phrase a chacun a son gout (sp?) is used in daily French - my son and his French mother and others I asked say that is true - that the phrase is archaic and never used in today's French. So St Cirq castigates my 'French' son as I guess being a Faux French - that he does not speak French well, etc.

Do you see that St Cirq's comment here about my son was snotty and rude? St cirq can attack me - fine by when she attacks my son well I will react.

From Quebec here; hopefully the words used here will apply to wherever you are in France-- Un allongé will get you what you want I think, although it tends to be more teacup-size than a mug that one gets in my experience. My friend who gets the allongé here goes for the cafe americano when in the States.

Good luck! Let us know if you're ok with the allongé!

PalenQ - you're very quick to given an opinion on other people's rudeness when you've not read the entire thread and have taken intent out of context or don't understand the background of certain comments. Perhaps there is a history between you and StCirq; perhaps there is not. I can't say but her comment did not appear to be rude, your's did. Her comment simply seemed to reference your French son. That is how you identify him.

No there is a context and the 'French' in referring to my French son was that my really French son simply does not know French very well - it was a totally sarcastic comment that was uncalled for and so was my retort - now I really hope it is ca y'est for both.

and that sarcastic comment had nothing to do with the thread at all - and yes I had read this whole thread and that's why I saw that snarky comment from not so St Cirq.

enough said - I hope editors erase all references, including St Cirq's rude and snotty comment that began it all. There is no place on Fodor's for such rudeness, which unfortunately you seem to condone.

adrienne, Pal has a LONG history of posting things about his French son that indicate he and Pal don't have much of a grasp of the French language - things that are simply spurious. It's not just me who's called him on it - native French speakers have. The latest was that the French call the Brits "Ros Boeufs" because their skin is pink like "the inside of undercooked beef." Quite a few folks noticed how off-base that was, as the expression "les rosbifs" goes back to the 1700s and has nothing to do with skin color, but rather the British habit of roasting meats (which were previously only boiled or steamed), not to mention that "Ros Boeufs" makes no sense in French and what would the inside of a roast have to do with skin, anyway?. Pal brings up this type of nonsense regularly, and, well, sorry if he gets called on it.

to make such a comment in a thread that it totally unrelated is rude - in the thread where I made that comment yes - but to out of the blue make a snarky comment on a thread like this... well carry on St Cirq - I challenge St Cirq to mention one other thing where my son was wrong - she cannot - just this one thing about rosbif - which he and his friends actually believe and thus is correct in a way that some French do believe it - St Cirq thinks he just makes it up.

Pal brings up this type of nonsense regularly, and, well, sorry if he gets called on it - again name me one more thing that he got wrong - and a chacun a son gout that he was correct with as many others concurred.

You fancy yourself a native French speaker and say that native French speakers do not speak French as well as you... rather haughty.

Again St Cirq - give me one more of those things my son 'regularly' gets wrong. I expect silence on that point.

have you tried "un cafe americain"? [un americano will get you what you want in Italy].

or "un nescafe" might work.

I order "un allongé, s'il vous plait". Always works. I don't think I was ever charged more than for an espresso. The only difference is more water (and a larger cup to contain it).

<<to make such a comment in a thread that it totally unrelated is rude>>

You totally plastered the lounge and the Europe board yesterday with snarky, rude comments about me on totally unrelated threads...pot, kettle.

I like my tall steaming mug, too, Surfergirl, and I sympathize. WIll try "un allongé."

Starbucks!

A chacun son goût, but you will never receive mug-sized coffee anywhere in Paris except for those strange Starbucks coffee flavored drinks.

An "allongé" is just an espresso with twice as much water, so it is still quite small. However, any café will provide you with as much hot water as you want so you can dilute your item down to nothing if you want.

mea culpa StCirq -accept my olive branch - you provide a wealth of great info on Paris and France and are a Fodor treasure. Ca y'est? I think we both got carried away - oh river (pardon my French)!

I just don't get it. All I want is a mug size (even large tea cup size) of black coffee. Heck, I don't care if the mug is filled up with espresso -- I'm partial to strong, black coffee!>

I always just ask for "un grand cafe SVP" and I always get a large American-sized mug of coffee - you may want to add "un grand cafe" - I always get "un grand cafe creme" and it is always in a American-sized mug.

and I just asked my French son about that and he said he thought to just ask for a "grand cafe" and you'd get a large black coffee - and he says "un grand cafe creme" would be a large coffee with creme - sometimes the cream comes separately. But he said he has rarely done so and is not sure but that is what he would say - he always just asks for "un cafe" and gets the thimbled-sized strong coffee that comes with sugar in a bowl or sugar pieces you can then add or not.

Actually in Orleans where I stay for long periods I just ask for a "grand creme" as I have heard the waiters say as well.

Truce accepted, Pal. That was most gracious of you.

It's true that an allongé is just watered down espresso, so perhaps if you just ask for a grand café noir that would work better (or not; I've never tried). And a grand café crème does often come with the cream separate, but not always. When I order a grand café crème, it almost always comes in a large cup, though.

I have severe doubts about this "mug-sized" business. A grand café or café crème would come in a cup about half the size of a mug.

well yes what is meant by mug?

never seem large mugs of coffee in cafes - perhaps at Starbucks - sacrilege!

How about bringing your own mug and seeing if they will fill it - at a princely sum of cost I would suspect - French in their homes use dishes - what look like American soup dishes to drink their coffee - at least as big as a mug but do not think these are used in cafes. They hold them with two hands and tip the java into their mouths.

Oops I meant soup bowls not dishes.

I can't say what goes in Paris, but elsewhere in France you can order a grand café at breakfast time, and get a large cup of coffee - probably filtered coffee rather than espresso, and usually weaker than I would like.

I don't usually drink out of mugs, so maybe don't have a correct perception of the size, but I've had and seen thousands of cups of coffee in France, and while I usually order a noisette, which comes in an espresso-size cup most of the time, the grand café crèmes I've had and seen were in a round cup like a small bowl, probably 4 or more inches in diameter and 2-3 inches deep.

I think of them as French breakfast cups. Wide so that you can dip your tartine or viennoiserie in your drink. There are many things I like about French food traditions, but dunking bread or cake in my coffee -- well, that takes the biscuit.

This has gone crazy weird, but turned into a fun thread -- love it! WIll try "un allongé" in the morning and see what happens. Tried the "grand" cafe scenario and got a thimble. Totally hate Star Bucks and saw a ton of them in Paris. The French make great coffee so I hope it's not completely watered down.

In Juan les Pins when I got the one gulp double espresso in a thimble, the woman said she could make it less strong and bigger, but I explained that I liked strong coffee -- just like a LOT of it -- One sips, does the crossword, and smells the smoke from the next table, living vicariously off of people who do things one used to do . . . !

Hmm.. I have noticed here that coffee can be a minefield, but I guess it depends on whether the place serves café crème or au lait in a cup/tasse or bowl/bol. If they don't use the bo(w)ls you seem to be stuck with the cup size.
If they have bols, and you are willing to drive the waiter nuts, you could ask for a double expresso allongé dans en bol, svp. Not sure if that will work, though. Probably not.
I personally like the café au lait in a bol, even though or maybe because I usually lose a good deal of my croissant in it.

Cowboy, when I used to have milk in coffee, I loved it that way too!

There's two cafes that I frequent in my usual hood where I can get a large cup of coffee.

Relais Odeon - cafe creme comes in a large cup

Cafe de Flore - cafe creme comes in a nice large pot and creme on the side.

If you want a large strong black coffee I'd head to Starbucks.

We could elongate (elonge) this thread by asking about the tips (pour boire) required for a drink..

We could elongate (elonge) this thread by asking about the tips (pour boire) required for a drink..>

well a beer is always IME "un pression (une?) or a demi-pression for a small glass.

I hear French folks belly up to the bar and grunt "un rouge" or "un blanc" for a glass of vin de pays.

A pression or demi-pression is a beer on tap. If you want bottled beer, you order it by the name brand, en bouteille. If you're at a bar that has several brands of bière en pression, you'll have a choice. Just like in the States.

My experience has been (and I treasure it as a cultural phenomenon rather than disdain it) is that in a cafe you get whatever the waiter wants you to get. So maybe ordering an "encore, SVP" or deux will get you enough coffee, with a few minutes between each episode for focused people-watching.

Une pression or un demi pression are the same thing: 25cl of beer. Most Parisians would just say un demi. The really small glass of beer (which almost nobody orders) is un bock.

Trivia department: a coaster is un sous bock (good term for some people to know since quite a few people collect themp).

Sub-trivia: bock is pronounced buck

Jack - thanks for the correcto - and I have a humungous collections of beer mats as the English I believe call them from all over Europe, including a pile of sous bocks from France.

<If you're at a bar that has several brands of bière en pression, you'll have a choice. Just like in the States.>

the types of bars I frequent typically have only a few choices of tap beer - not the wide selection at home or say in England - but of course fancier places may have more but typical cafes IME have just a few - things may be changing however as the French, especially younger ones, drink more beer and less wine.

On a cool day my French friends may order a "grog" - hot rum with lemon I believe and hot water and sugar -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LX9tPhvAIso

If you want a little bit of Paris in your US kitchen, order some of these. I have long had several antique Quimper cafe au lait bowls--they have little ear/handles for a better grip.

http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=cafe+au+lait+bowl&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=6263545167&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9673462971244057127&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&ref=pd_sl_3fr1vakymu_e

On beer, my husband mastered that art -- almost always wanting une pression, whereupon the waiter would ask, generally speaking, "normale" or "grande"? -- except in an English pub in Antibes (the Blue Lady Pub) -- http://www.blueladypub.com/ where he was able to order a "pint" in English.

Allonge worked, by the way.

Any place where a waiter asks "normal or grand?" is a tourist trip. These are the home of the $8 Coke and the $10 beer.

At worst, say the number of centiliters that you want. I have seen dishonest waiters claim that they understood "un demi" to mean a half liter instead of the antique concept of a half pint (25 cl).

"trap" instead of "trip" -- obviously!

If we could veer back in a coffee direction for a minute:
When I first was in Paris a million years ago and ordered "café au laut", I expected and got something with lots of hot milk, served in the kind of bowl Gretchen's link shows.

More recently I when I say "café au lait", I get what I would call café creme, a small cup of coffee with maybe 15 ml of a cool dairy product alongside.

What does one say to get the Gretchen-like bowl delivered steaming to the table?

I wouldn't mind a little discussion of pourboire/tip as suggested above for a cup of coffee, if anyone can stand the subject anymore. One hates being a chump almost as much as stiffing the staff.

Any place where a waiter asks "normal or grand?" is a tourist trip. These are the home of the $8 Coke and the $10 beer.>

yeh that was my impression too - after leading zillions of college kids thru Paris at the TCF Camping site in Joinville - the bar tenders there would always ask kids 'if they wanted a big beer' - of course all said yes, thinking it would be cheaper per volume - but it was not - it was a lot more expensive than buying two smaller beers.

I have always heard that true of Parisian cafes as well - a 'big' beer is kind like ripping off folks.

stokebailey asked: "What does one say to get the Gretchen-like bowl delivered steaming to the table?"

That's a breakfast coffee, so the first requirement is to be there at breakfast time. Then order "un grand café, svp".

Breakfast bowls are at home, not in cafés. Yes, I know. Life isn't fair for tourists.

I'll try that, Padraig. Thanks.

Kerouac, Hmph. (Disgruntled sound.)

However, if you stay in a rural gite (B&B) you have a good chance of getting your coffee in a bowl

I seldom weigh in during a snit - but I suppose those who are familiar with a chocun a son gout may only be those familiar with Die Fledermaus or Jeeves and Wooster. Special people, a group of which I am proud to belong. Jeez folks! This is about coffee. I get a big cup of coffee at McDonald's at the air base exit off A6. I know - don't nag me - I never go to McDonald's in the states, but here it's really different. Getting coffee in Europe is a challenge. The rest stop - rastatte? - at that same exit will pour more (for free) if the cup is empty. I love this place.

McDonalds is also my favorite place in Europe to get some java - the taste to me is good and you need not deal with any waiters or have any problem placing your order. Unfortunately unlike Stateside there are few free refills or no senior coffee I get at home.

Even in Italy McDondals now uses state of the art coffee machines just like Italian caffes I think - I understand they have imported these to America and now blind taste tests McBrews stack right up there with Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts, whose coffee also is surprisingly good according to experts.

Now if they only had some of those coffee beans that come out of lemur's rears!

McCafé in France (a totally separate sub-section of many McDonald's) serves authentic coffee and even sells such items as macarons. They are doing correctly everything that Starbucks is doing wrong in France. Starbucks is still pushing American type brownies, etc., whose novelty value in Europe wore off long ago, while McDo sells completely acceptable French pastries.

Stokebaily, the tip for a coffee in Paris is often 0.00€ but may sometimes run as high as 0.20€ for spendthrifts.

Now if they only had some of those coffee beans that come out of lemur's rears!>>

DD brought us some home from Bali and it's civet's rears that they come out of.

She brought home enough for about 2 cups each so we've drunk one half of it - for me it had only novelty value but DD and DH liked it a lot.

re tips, in France and Italy, if something like a round of coffees costs €9.90, I'll leave €10. at home in the UK, I'll leave £9.90!

Now we know why Ann is out of the UK so much: she is running out of places to go for coffee near home.

Kerouac: McCafé in France (a totally separate sub-section of many McDonald's).

It's really called McCafe? We have one here in Basel, but it's call Aroma. I haven't had their coffee, but DH says it's ok.

"All I want is a mug size"

Americans and their size fetish. Oh my.

"but I explained that I liked strong coffee -- just like a LOT of it"

So order more than one. And pay for it. Why drive the French servers crazy with your lone demand?

"If we could veer back in a coffee direction for a minute"

Me thinks there are a few folks here who got overly caffeinated reading this thread. Sounds like the Lounge is still a toxic place after all these years. Ah, some things never change.

Gluttony is never attractive, and I here caffeine is addictive. Also not attractive: a boxing match over who speaks current French on Fodor's.

Feeling superior must likewise be addictive. We should allow each other our little failings.

"Gluttony is never attractive"

Obviously NYCFoodSnob has not been watching the puppycam. Those six little piglets make gluttony look adorable

It's really called McCafe?

Yes, it's really called McCafé.

http://www.mcdonalds.fr/produits/offre-mccafe/

Wow, who knew there were so many different ways to ask for coffee! Should be interesting when I get to Cavalaire in late October.

to ask for a decaf is it still "Nescafe please"? Or was it ever that

french never got much into decaf I think - they have Ricore - which I believe is 40% coffee and the rest chicoree or some such ration - I know this is popular at home for my French in-laws at least but do not recall seeing it on menus in cafes?

Un Ricore SVP?

tea is easy enough - The though my ex-wife likes to ask for the with lemon or the with mint. etc.

she also likes "menthe a l'eau if I am remembering the words correctly - sweet mint water.

"Feeling superior must likewise be addictive."

I didn't know Mitt Romney was planning a visit to France, with the intention to order extra-large, extra-strong coffee in a mug. How frustrating for the French.

A decaf is simply "un déca" and is extremely common -- it was never "Nescafé" since Nescafé has just as much caffeine as any instant coffee. Don't trash the Swiss who have come up with some useful stuff -- but you will never find Nescafé in a café anyway. Cafés make real coffee, with or without caffeine.

Oh, and you won't find Ricoré in a café either.

who knew there were so many different ways to ask for coffee!

Look at the sixth or seventh example:

http://www.stupid.tv/video/137/Bruno-Bozzetto--Italy-VS-Europe

loved it, michael, thanks!

> It's really called McCafe? We have one here in Basel, but it's call Aroma

FOFOBT, I'm surprised of your question. Are you not mistaken? I found McCafé Basel but not Aroma Basel.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.183759441636390.46199.168259133186421&type=3#!/photo.php?fbid=183759584969709&set=a.183759441636390.46199.168259133186421&type=3&theater

And in Geneva it IS called McCafé like anywhere else.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ming_the_merciless/2201589724/

As you can see from the photo, it had indeed been called Aroma. However, McD has refreshed its brand/image and changed from Aroma to McCafe.

Please note, kappa1, I was NOT making things up when I remembered seeing the Aroma cafe. It had been called that for several years.

Is not Pret a Manger in London a McDonalds thing - yet Pret gets good reviews generally but if folks knew it was a part of Big Mac would they be so kind?

I think folks who diss McDonalds out of hand do so from haughtiness not real knowledge of the product.

Pret can now be found in Paris as well.

Next question, who owns Bridgepoint?



Who owns Pret A Manger?
Pret A Manger is a private company. After 25 years, founders Julian Metcalfe and Sinclair Beecham are still significant shareholders. The majority stake of the company was acquired by European equity firm Bridgepoint in 2008.
Bridgepoint was chosen as a partner to Pret because the Bridgepoint team shares both the Pret vision and understands the Pret culture. It really is business as usual for the teams. Pret remains dedicated to selling freshly prepared, good, natural food.
Bridgepoint's investment is an opportunity to transform Pret A Manger from a domestic to an international business through controlled prudent expansion while maintaining everything that makes Pret work for both our customers and staff.

http://www.marketingweek.co.uk/pret-a-manger-aims-to-dispel-mcdonalds-myth/3022565.article

yes I were wrong - McD's did own a minority share once and this link above is about how Pret is trying to dispell the false notion, that I had believed, that is was still part owned my McDondalds - thanks cathinjoetown for setting moi straight!

NYCFoodSnob
Was it really necessary to bring politics into a discussion about coffee???

Chutney, what kind of silly question makes 3 question marks necessary?

I didn't know Mitt Romney was planning a visit to France, with the intention to order extra-large, extra-strong coffee in a mug.

I thought coffee was a no-no for Mormons.