Mantova, Ravenna, Ferrara fall 2017?

Old Feb 17th, 2017, 04:20 AM
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Mantova, Ravenna, Ferrara fall 2017?

Hello all,

We’re beginning to think about Italy in the fall. However, all early planning is contingent on the arrival of our new grandbaby in Seattle in late spring so we may be doing some visiting over there in early summer. But it’s always fun to plan an Italian trip, so here goes a draft (we want to use trains, no rental cars)…

Travel day/night: Montreal to Bologna via Frankfurt
Day 1: arrive Bologna and 30 minute train to Ferrara
Days 1,2,3: Ferrara
Day 4: train from Ferrara to Ravenna 1 h 30 min
Days 4,5,6: Ravenna
Day 7: train from Ravenna to Mantova 2 h 45 min
Days 7,8,9: Mantova
Day 10: train from Mantova to Bologna
Days 10,11: Bologna
Day 12: Bologna to Montreal

We’d specifically welcome information about:

--good hotels? We especially like to stay in B&Bs or hotels in old, historic buildings
--any good non-Michelin restaurants which have not been frequently mentioned in forum TRs (I’ve read lots of TRs about Bologna, Ravenna, and Ferrara; there are not many TRs available for Mantova)
--any half-day trips to sights a short distance away from the cities, walking a mile or so or taking a local bus?
--classical or religious music concerts in less well known places, e.g., Oratorio di Santa Cecilia in Bologna, that kind of thing?

Your comments are eagerly awaited!
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Old Feb 17th, 2017, 09:40 AM
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"--classical or religious music concerts in less well known places, e.g., Oratorio di Santa Cecilia in Bologna, that kind of thing?"

In Italy? They simply don't do music.

For that, the quickest solution is to fly to London or Berlin. And even there, the acoustics of St Hedwig's cathedral are appalling, and I've never found anywhere else in Berlin performing the Catholic liturgy. But there's lots of Mozart and Haydn masses performed all over the place, and the Prod singing in churches is fine

If you want good religious music from the Catholic tradition: London. Outside a couple of major churches in Rome, Italy seems to have given up the ghost completely.

As far as I could find out, Bologna's St Cecilia is one of the very few churches named after her that seems to have no musical tradition. BUT in St Giacomo Magigiore, next door, we did recently stumble over good music by serendipity.

Coming in to sightsee during early Mass (which seems universally tolerated in Central Italy to the extent that guides seem happy to do tours), we found that Divine Office was being sung by a tiny chapter, with Mass delayed till it was finished. And in Latin: not the dismal and banal Italian so depressingly often used these days. The Anglicans and Lutherans manage inspiring translations into the vernacular: why can't Catholics?

Anyway: the Office was sublime.

Mantua Which is what this city is called in English. Which I understand is the language we use on this forum.

Autumn in urban central Italy can be stiflingly hot, and in September, we found walking round your towns needed frequent stops to cool down.

By European standards (or at any rate, the standards of a smallish English town), buses in Mantua seemed sparse for its size, though its artistic resources are staggering.The area round the Palazzo Ducale is just about walkable: I'm not at all sure how easy it is to get comfortably without a car to the Palazzo Te.

Which to me is THE thing to see in Mantua. There are outstanding rooms in the Palazzo Ducale - but the decorations in about half the rooms of the Palazzo Te are out of this world (the other half are undecorated). Allow TONS of time.

As a lifetime enthusiast for Italian cooking, I was extraordinarily underwhelmed by the restaurants last autumn throughout these cities, apart from Banco 32 in Bologna's Piazza delle Erbe. I couldn't help feeling that the rest of us have developed in the past 50 years - but restaurants in Emilia-Romagna and southern Lombardy haven't.

You can choose at random and you'll find pretty good cooking by the standards of 25 years ago: but look as hard as you might, you won't be transfixed.
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Old Feb 17th, 2017, 09:55 AM
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I stayed at Hotel Corona d'Ora in Bologna and can recommend it. Excellent location, helpful staff, everything tidy.

http://www.hco.it
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Old Feb 17th, 2017, 09:56 AM
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Typo alert: Corona d'Oro
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Old Feb 19th, 2017, 02:29 AM
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Thanks for the information.

@flanner: yes, we're looking forward to the marvels of *Mantua* , especially to the glorious Mantegna frescoes. BTW, did you consume donkey there? I wonder how that became a specialty of the place.

@Leely2: Corona d'Oro looks beautiful. A bit pricey. Shall explore for offerte.
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Old Feb 19th, 2017, 02:49 AM
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We love this b&b in Bologna

https://anticaresidenzadazeglio.it
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Old Feb 19th, 2017, 11:40 AM
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Donkey is a "specialty" of a very wide swatch of the north eastern quadrant of Italy. It is commonly found throughout the Veneto with the exception of the coastline, and in Lombardia, as well as some parts of Emilia-Romagna. I think locals might be surprised to hear donkey termed a "specialty." Eating donkey is as common as eating beef in many towns in these areas (even more common that eatng beef in some towns),

Looking at your overall schedule, you might consider taking one night from Ravenna and giving it to Bologna.

There is no piazza delle Erbe in Bologna. There is a Mercato delle Erbe, and the restaurant recommended is inside the market. It serves mainly fish and, frankly, if you like fish, I would save that experience for Ravenna on the coast.

I highly urge you to eat the traditional foods of the places you are going. It is absolutely correct that these places haven't "developed." They have mightily resisted the globalizing trends in eating, except for Michelin restaurants, which you seem to want to avoid. You might not like the traditional foods if your palate is "developed". But in both Ferrara and Mantova in particular, the main dishes of those towns can be found nowhere else, not even inside Italy. People from Bologna or Milan go to these towns to eat preparations they cannot get just 30 minutes away. i recommend you do a google search for "typical dishes of Ferrara" and the same for Mantova. It is not just donkey, but many unique pastas, rice dishes, salamis, freshwater creatures, special cakes that are hyper-local and you'll have just this one chance to try them.

In Mantova, the best restaurant I know of is Osteria ai Ranari. One reason I might add another day to Bologna is the opportunity to visit Modena for lunch and eat at Hostaria Giusti. You must reserve. (At Osteria ai Ranari too.)

Bologna has a very long and rich music tradition. The tourist office should be able to guide you (it's in the piazza Maggiore). There is also a very lovely music museum in Bologna. Worth visiting, I think, if you have that special interest. If you end up going to Modena, it's worth stepping inside the beautiful duomo and recalling that Luciano Pavarotti was a choir boy there, with his father. His funeral was held there.
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Old Feb 19th, 2017, 12:22 PM
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I have stayed twice at this B&B in Ferrara:

http://www.borgonuovo.com

Book directly with the B&B for a better rate, and follow their suggestions for restaurants.

What are you planning to do in Ravenna? I have found a day trip from Ferrara more than adequate.
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Old Feb 19th, 2017, 02:58 PM
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Thanks again.

@frencharmoire: you may be confusing my comments with those of flanner as far as Italian cuisine is concerned. I do not cherish "highly advanced, new, modish" cuisine, e.g., snail foam on a bed of hummingbirds' tongues. I go to Italy to eat genuine Italian cuisine and I don't care if it hasn't changed in many a year. We've been going to Italy for quite a while, from Bergamo down to Agrigento. Just have not been to the Emilia-Romagna region. Your comments are most helpful and I will indeed search out the typical foods of each city. And the music.

@thursdaysd: about Ravenna--architecture is a hobby and I am intrigued by the post-Roman Empire decades and the ancient structures and mosaics of Ravenna. Have you read ellenem's TR about her week there, at the mosaic school? Fascinating. The town seems to have some very fine, un-complicated, dining spots as well. We like to move slowly, digesting one building then processing what we've seen over a good lunch, so that's why I'm thinking three nights in Ravenna. (We spent four nights in Lucca, a town which some find blah but others, ourselves included, find delightful.)

Bologna--I visited the city very briefly many years ago and don't have much of an impression. The comments on these forums and in various other places are mixed, some love it, some find it underwhelming. Our thought is to give it a try.

All of this is still in the thinking stage so once again many thanks for your ideas.
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Old Feb 19th, 2017, 10:52 PM
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the music museum in Bologna is a lovely place to visit, I think I went there twice. It sometimes has concerts. Also follow posters around town, I've seen ads for concerts performed at San Paolo Maggiore (a beautiful church to visit regardless), at Santa Cecilia and maybe at the main basilica as well.
Also, San Colombano runs a series of concerts throughout the year and this too, is a pleasure to visit, with its collection of early keyboard instruments. I enjoyed the concert I attended there.
http://www.genusbononiae.it/palazzi/san-colombano/
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 08:50 AM
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Hi EYWandBTV,

Think maybe you misread my post. I said you appear to be trying to avoid Michelin restaurants. I didn't want to single out flanneruk's comment, but I was indeed responding to what seemed like disparaging remarks about the unchanging restaurants found throughout Italy. I am glad you appreciate that they don't change, and you will find many to your liking along your planned itinerary.

Keren makes a good point about paying attention to posters and flyers advertising concerts. They are seldom listed anywhere in advance of a week or so. Posters are very often the main way to attract an audience.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 09:40 AM
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Thank you frencharmoire and flanner and keren and all - yes, it's always tricky to seize the nuances of people's comments on the forum.... I take everyone's comments to heart, they are all good! Concerning cuisine - every now and then we do splurge and go to an allegedly cutting edge restaurant some place. We went to Ottolenghi's NOPI in London last summer. Very fine food, very imaginative, beautiful surroundings, quite expensive. More often we enjoy the oldies-but-goodies, e.g., caccio e pepe and some simple red wine when in Rome, that sort of thing. I shall indeed be on the lookout for donkey if and when our trip to Mantua materializes.

On previous Italy trips we have heard some beautiful music performed by visiting student choruses in Arezzo, Lucca, and Rome, following wall posters as Keren suggested.

We had a "magical music moment" on our last trip to Venice, just walking around after dinner west of the Rialto. It was a still evening, full moon, the whole shebang. Then we heard an ethereal voice singing some kind of beautiful aria. We followed the voice and lo it was a concert in the little church of San Giacometto. The singer was a young Korean woman (we bought the CD after the concert) and the aria was Handel's "Lascia ch'io pianga" and the group was the Ensemble Antonio Vivaldi. This Ensemble is composed of students who have graduated with high honors from the best music academies in Italy and they give regular concerts in Venice. I'll never forget this, one of those special things one stumbles across in Italy.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 09:51 AM
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We enjoyed http://m-club.it/?lang=en in Ravenna. Everything was pretty much "just around the corner". If there are cruise ships, make sure you do your mosaic sightseeing early or in the afternoon when the hordes are gone.
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Old Feb 20th, 2017, 03:18 PM
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EYWandBTV,

Glad my trip report about Ravenna inspired you. Three nights in Ravenna means two full days, which will give you time to visit all the major sights and some lesser ones at a nice pace, including taking the local bus or a bicycle to Classe to see the mosaics there. Yes, one could visit the major sights in one day (and I have done that, too), but it sounds like you know you preferred pace.

I feel like I should add an update to that report--I returned to Ravenna the following year for another mosaic class, but with 11 classmates, which was a very different experience.
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Old Feb 21st, 2017, 12:11 AM
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@ellenem: Yes, do give us "I Go To Pieces - Volume II". With lots of detail please. I'm interested in what design you chose this time for your mosaic. I now have, thanks to Amazon, no lesss than four books about Ravenna's historic buildings and mosaics. Some of these books have very vivid color reproductions, amazing. The reality must be more so. Also, please write more about your dining adventures--I was surprised to see from your TR that Ravenna had such good restaurants.
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Old Feb 23rd, 2017, 03:38 AM
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Mantova is great. We really liked the B and B Palazzo Arrivabene (sp?)
In town. Beautiful old Palazzo. Our room was immense. Nice folks.
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Old Feb 24th, 2017, 05:34 AM
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Flanner is having another splenetic episode today.

Do you still call Livorno "Leghorn", Flanner?
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Old Feb 26th, 2017, 03:15 AM
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We spent 3 wonderful nights in Mantova in November. We loved our B&B La Cervetta which you can book through Booking.com.

If you do a search for Mantova on my blog: keepyourfeetinthestreet.com
you can read all about it.

Loved the food there, too!
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Old Feb 26th, 2017, 03:51 AM
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Thanks jangita. I just read your blog notes about Mantova and I see another enthusiastic vote for Osteria ai Ranari. And I covet your husband's meal of pasta with boar sauce!

I've been reading about the Teatro Bibiena. Their 2017 concert schedule is online, so if and when we make this trip I'm going to try to arrange our visit to coincide with one of their performances. The theater looks beautiful.
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Old Mar 21st, 2017, 04:54 PM
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We spent three days in Ferrara and stayed in the Hotel Annunziata which we enjoyed very much. Our room overlooked the castle - best view ever and the breakfast was the best we have ever had anywhere, seems to me there was even caviar on the table. The staff was outstanding, so kind and helpful. I should add this was five years ago so I hope nothing has changed. We really enjoyed Ferrara, less touristy than other places, the hotel had bikes which we borrowed to ride on the walls.
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