Madrid and Barcelona - November
Sep 23rd, 2015, 07:03 AM
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Madrid and Barcelona - November
We are planning 9 days in Madrid and Barcelona this November. Older DD (age 20) is on study abroad in Madrid, so DH, 18 year old DD and I are going to visit during Thanksgiving week.
Itinerary is: arrive Barcelona Friday morning (the week before Thanksgiving); Friday - Tuesday morning in Barcelona; fly to Madrid early Tuesday morning; Tuesday - Sunday morning in Madrid (including at least one day trip); flight home from Madrid early Sunday morning.
Study-abroad-DD will be with us in Barcelona. Once we go to Madrid she will resume going to class, but will stay with us so we'll see her morning and evening. I've booked apartments in El Born in Barcelona (through Habitat) and Barrio de las Letras in Madrid (through Spain Select), based on advice I've read on other threads here (thanks Fodorites, as always!) I've done lots of research and have many questions! I'll start with Barcelona, and questions about off-peak visiting, which is hard to get information about.
1. I know it's important during peak travel season to book ahead for the Gaudi sites. Will that be necessary in late November? I'd prefer to play it by ear if possible, especially the first day or two, since travel and jet lag are unpredictable. But I also want to avoid spending a lot of time waiting in line, as I feel we barely have enough time in Barcelona as it is. Does anyone know whether we should expect lines at Casa Batllo, Casa Mila (La Pedrera), Sagrada Familia, Parc Guell Monument Zone at this time of year? Does the answer vary depending on the site, so that we could play some by ear but must book ahead for others? Keeping in mind that we will be there Friday-Monday.
2. Same question about lines for Picasso museum during free admission period on Sunday afternoon.
3. We'd like to experience the "Sunday in the park" scene in Barcelona. Will there be a Sunday in the park scene at this time of year? If so, which park is best - Parc de la Ciutadella? Parc Guell? Before lunch or after? (By the way, I regret that we won't have a Sunday in Madrid and so will miss the El Rastro-lunch in La Latina-afternoon in El Retiro scene. Nothing to be done. DD has experienced it, so we will live vicariously through her for now!).
4. Can we see the sardana at this time of year? If so, is noon in front of the Cathedral on Sunday the best time to catch it?
I will have many restaurant questions also (I have researched restaurants until my head spins!), but will start with these for now. Thanks in advance for all advice!
Itinerary is: arrive Barcelona Friday morning (the week before Thanksgiving); Friday - Tuesday morning in Barcelona; fly to Madrid early Tuesday morning; Tuesday - Sunday morning in Madrid (including at least one day trip); flight home from Madrid early Sunday morning.
Study-abroad-DD will be with us in Barcelona. Once we go to Madrid she will resume going to class, but will stay with us so we'll see her morning and evening. I've booked apartments in El Born in Barcelona (through Habitat) and Barrio de las Letras in Madrid (through Spain Select), based on advice I've read on other threads here (thanks Fodorites, as always!) I've done lots of research and have many questions! I'll start with Barcelona, and questions about off-peak visiting, which is hard to get information about.
1. I know it's important during peak travel season to book ahead for the Gaudi sites. Will that be necessary in late November? I'd prefer to play it by ear if possible, especially the first day or two, since travel and jet lag are unpredictable. But I also want to avoid spending a lot of time waiting in line, as I feel we barely have enough time in Barcelona as it is. Does anyone know whether we should expect lines at Casa Batllo, Casa Mila (La Pedrera), Sagrada Familia, Parc Guell Monument Zone at this time of year? Does the answer vary depending on the site, so that we could play some by ear but must book ahead for others? Keeping in mind that we will be there Friday-Monday.
2. Same question about lines for Picasso museum during free admission period on Sunday afternoon.
3. We'd like to experience the "Sunday in the park" scene in Barcelona. Will there be a Sunday in the park scene at this time of year? If so, which park is best - Parc de la Ciutadella? Parc Guell? Before lunch or after? (By the way, I regret that we won't have a Sunday in Madrid and so will miss the El Rastro-lunch in La Latina-afternoon in El Retiro scene. Nothing to be done. DD has experienced it, so we will live vicariously through her for now!).
4. Can we see the sardana at this time of year? If so, is noon in front of the Cathedral on Sunday the best time to catch it?
I will have many restaurant questions also (I have researched restaurants until my head spins!), but will start with these for now. Thanks in advance for all advice!
Sep 23rd, 2015, 07:50 AM
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Certainly no lines in November. November is cold, rainy and dreary. Hardly any tourist in November. And the parks will be empty too.
Concentrate on indoor activities like museums and enjoy multicourse meals. Both Madrid and Barcelona have fantastic restaurants with surprisingly low prices (including Michelin-star awarded restaurants). Check Maribel's guides - she used to post here!
http://www.maribelsguides.com/
Concentrate on indoor activities like museums and enjoy multicourse meals. Both Madrid and Barcelona have fantastic restaurants with surprisingly low prices (including Michelin-star awarded restaurants). Check Maribel's guides - she used to post here!
http://www.maribelsguides.com/
Sep 23rd, 2015, 08:46 AM
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Yes, not the ideal time to visit weather-wise, but we have to work around the schedules of our girls. Younger DD has several days off for Thanksgiving, so we are able to get a long trip with only a few missed days of school (she is a senior in high school). You are both worrying me, though! I expect chilly weather - even downright cold at night in Madrid - and some chance of rain (partly why I want to play things by ear -so we can adjust plans if there is rain), but had thought that even November is generally dry and somewhat sunny! Is it really cold, rainy and dreary?
I assume from what you say, traveller, that there is no weekend park activity, which is too bad, but good to know. What about the sardana? Will people still be dancing on weekends in November?
I assume from what you say, traveller, that there is no weekend park activity, which is too bad, but good to know. What about the sardana? Will people still be dancing on weekends in November?
Sep 23rd, 2015, 10:38 AM
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"Cold, rainy and dreary. Hardly any tourist" is totally misleading.
Weather statistics for Barcelona in the end of November says average highs 59-65F, rainfall once a week and average 4 hours sun pr. day (wetteronline.de).
Sardanas is danced all year round, and every Sunday in front of the cathedral.
Expect long lines in at least La Sagrada Familia even in November, but you can buy online tickets that let you skip the lines when you're in town. http://www.sagradafamilia.org/en/tickets/
Of course there is weekend park activity in Barcelona when it's a normal sunny and fairly warm weekend in November.
Could give you many restaurants/tapas bar tips in both cities in many categories based on frequent visits the past ten years.
Weather statistics for Barcelona in the end of November says average highs 59-65F, rainfall once a week and average 4 hours sun pr. day (wetteronline.de).
Sardanas is danced all year round, and every Sunday in front of the cathedral.
Expect long lines in at least La Sagrada Familia even in November, but you can buy online tickets that let you skip the lines when you're in town. http://www.sagradafamilia.org/en/tickets/
Of course there is weekend park activity in Barcelona when it's a normal sunny and fairly warm weekend in November.
Could give you many restaurants/tapas bar tips in both cities in many categories based on frequent visits the past ten years.
Sep 23rd, 2015, 10:47 AM
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The weather isn't that bad in Barcelona, probably in the 60s in the daytime, and maybe 50% chance of sunny.
I would not count on sardana in November.
I don't think it's a big thing to go to parks in the winter with families on Sunday, not sure what you are referring to. I'm sure some people will be there.
I would not count on sardana in November.
I don't think it's a big thing to go to parks in the winter with families on Sunday, not sure what you are referring to. I'm sure some people will be there.
Sep 23rd, 2015, 04:38 PM
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I'm having trouble posting the link for the sardana schedule, but it says every Sunday from September to July, but at 11:15, not noon as I had thought.
Seems like park activity will depend on the weather - fair enough. Glad to hear the weather will not necessarily be completely awful!
kimhe I was afraid that would be the answer about La Sagrada Familia! I don't think we'll have access to a printer to print our tickets, since we'll be in an apartment. Is there another way to get the tickets once we are in town? And what about the Gaudi houses - do you think there will be lines there too in November? I'd like to do that the first day if it's not raining - I read you can't go on the roof of Casa Mila if it's raining, and that would be a tragedy! So if the sun is out I want to do it right away so we don't miss it! On the other hand, if it is raining I don't want to be locked into it - you see the dilemma...
And yes, I'd love all your restaurant recommendations! I've already written down many of them from other threads where you and others have posted. I'll post my restaurant questions later, because I've narrowed things down a bit based on our preferences and schedule.
Seems like park activity will depend on the weather - fair enough. Glad to hear the weather will not necessarily be completely awful!
kimhe I was afraid that would be the answer about La Sagrada Familia! I don't think we'll have access to a printer to print our tickets, since we'll be in an apartment. Is there another way to get the tickets once we are in town? And what about the Gaudi houses - do you think there will be lines there too in November? I'd like to do that the first day if it's not raining - I read you can't go on the roof of Casa Mila if it's raining, and that would be a tragedy! So if the sun is out I want to do it right away so we don't miss it! On the other hand, if it is raining I don't want to be locked into it - you see the dilemma...
And yes, I'd love all your restaurant recommendations! I've already written down many of them from other threads where you and others have posted. I'll post my restaurant questions later, because I've narrowed things down a bit based on our preferences and schedule.
Sep 24th, 2015, 01:01 AM
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There's a fine internet cafe just behind the Santa Maria del Mar Church in El Born where you can print your tickets. I'm also quite sure you can collect your tickets in any Caixa ATM using the same card as you used to buy the tickets online.
When it comes to Sardana, the normal schedule (I believe also in Winter) is Saturdays 18h30, Sundays 12h and Wednesdays 19h in front of the Cathedral or in close by and fine Plaça Sant Jaume Sunday afternoon.
When it comes to Sardana, the normal schedule (I believe also in Winter) is Saturdays 18h30, Sundays 12h and Wednesdays 19h in front of the Cathedral or in close by and fine Plaça Sant Jaume Sunday afternoon.
Sep 25th, 2015, 09:36 PM
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Thanks kimhe, that is helpful.
I've done some more detailed research and am starting to panic that we do not have enough time in Barcelona! I'm astounded at how much there is to see there! But we're not really flexible on our itinerary because of DD's class schedule - she needs to get back to Madrid.
My priorities are La Sagrada Familia, Casa Batllo and Casa Milo, Parc Guell, the Picasso Museum, wandering Las Ramblas (I know, touristy, but you have to experience it if you are there!), the Boqueria, wandering El Born and Barri Gotic.
Secondary are Montjuic and the Miro museum, Parc de la Ciutadella, Barceloneta and Port Vell.
Somewhere along the way we need to squeeze in the Basilica Santa Maria, the Cathedral, the Palau de Musica.
Questions: If we have very little time for Montjuic, will we really feel we have missed out? Is Palau Guell worth seeing? (I've read mixed reviews) Am I missing anything spectacular?
I've done some more detailed research and am starting to panic that we do not have enough time in Barcelona! I'm astounded at how much there is to see there! But we're not really flexible on our itinerary because of DD's class schedule - she needs to get back to Madrid.
My priorities are La Sagrada Familia, Casa Batllo and Casa Milo, Parc Guell, the Picasso Museum, wandering Las Ramblas (I know, touristy, but you have to experience it if you are there!), the Boqueria, wandering El Born and Barri Gotic.
Secondary are Montjuic and the Miro museum, Parc de la Ciutadella, Barceloneta and Port Vell.
Somewhere along the way we need to squeeze in the Basilica Santa Maria, the Cathedral, the Palau de Musica.
Questions: If we have very little time for Montjuic, will we really feel we have missed out? Is Palau Guell worth seeing? (I've read mixed reviews) Am I missing anything spectacular?
Sep 25th, 2015, 11:06 PM
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My advice would be to slow down, just see a few things and take time to really experience the city.
Sagrada familia is a must, and take your good time here. When it comes to Casa Milà (La Pedrera) and Casa Batllo, they are close to eachother on Passeig de Gracia (and not that far from Sagrada familia), and especially La Pedrera is a spectacular experience even only from the outside. Then you would have had a solid Gaudi fix.
The Boqueria market, one of the finest food markets in the world, is right on Las Ramblas. And walking to Boqueria would give you all you want of Las Ramblas. http://www.gardenista.com/posts/la-boqueria-market
Perhaps round off the Ramblas part with a cup or glass at classic Cafe de l'Opera almost just across the street from Boqueria: http://www.spottedbylocals.com/barce...afe-de-lopera/
You stay in El Born, and then you will stumble upon the magnificent 14th century Santa Maria del Mar church several times pr. day. And wandering around medieval El Born/La Ribera can take you anywhere, great cafes, bars, shops and a cradle of Catalan identity and culture. Narrow Carrer Montcada was the most important street in the city from almost a thousand years ago, El Fossar de les Moreres commemorates the loss of Independence and fall to the Spanish in 1714, and the old market is now a fine cultural center with tons of Barcelona history: http://www.barcelonaturisme.com/wv3/...la-ribera.html
Go to the Picasso and/or Miro museums only if they are important to you, even though I must admit I was surprised by how much I was taken by the Miro experience earlier this year.
The cathedral comes free with the sardana.
That would at least be more than enough sights for me for some 3-4 days in Barcelona.
Sagrada familia is a must, and take your good time here. When it comes to Casa Milà (La Pedrera) and Casa Batllo, they are close to eachother on Passeig de Gracia (and not that far from Sagrada familia), and especially La Pedrera is a spectacular experience even only from the outside. Then you would have had a solid Gaudi fix.
The Boqueria market, one of the finest food markets in the world, is right on Las Ramblas. And walking to Boqueria would give you all you want of Las Ramblas. http://www.gardenista.com/posts/la-boqueria-market
Perhaps round off the Ramblas part with a cup or glass at classic Cafe de l'Opera almost just across the street from Boqueria: http://www.spottedbylocals.com/barce...afe-de-lopera/
You stay in El Born, and then you will stumble upon the magnificent 14th century Santa Maria del Mar church several times pr. day. And wandering around medieval El Born/La Ribera can take you anywhere, great cafes, bars, shops and a cradle of Catalan identity and culture. Narrow Carrer Montcada was the most important street in the city from almost a thousand years ago, El Fossar de les Moreres commemorates the loss of Independence and fall to the Spanish in 1714, and the old market is now a fine cultural center with tons of Barcelona history: http://www.barcelonaturisme.com/wv3/...la-ribera.html
Go to the Picasso and/or Miro museums only if they are important to you, even though I must admit I was surprised by how much I was taken by the Miro experience earlier this year.
The cathedral comes free with the sardana.
That would at least be more than enough sights for me for some 3-4 days in Barcelona.
Sep 26th, 2015, 08:06 AM
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I notice kimhe didn't talk about the November weather in Madrid. It's cool (to cold) and rainy. We were in Madrid at the end of this last March. There was a strong cold wind that had all the natives wearing their winter jackets.
OTOH, for staying warm and dry, lots of museums in Madrid.
OTOH, for staying warm and dry, lots of museums in Madrid.
Sep 26th, 2015, 08:37 AM
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Yes, lots of museums and "indoors activities" in Madrid. Among many, many things, some fabulous tablaos (flamenco restaurants) and jazz clubs with top of the shelf live artists year around. Some of the very best places in town are close to vibrant Plaza Santa Ana.
Casa Patas (flamenco): http://www.casapatas.com/index.asp
Cardamomo (flamenco): http://cardamomo.es/
Cafe Central (jazz): http://www.cafecentralmadrid.com/
And weather need not be that bad here either. Statistics for weather in Madrid last half of November says average highs at 50-58F, very little rain and average 5 hours sun pr. day. (wetteronline.de)
<had all the natives wearing their winter jackets>
Most Spaniards wear winter jackets when temperatures are below 70F ;-)
Casa Patas (flamenco): http://www.casapatas.com/index.asp
Cardamomo (flamenco): http://cardamomo.es/
Cafe Central (jazz): http://www.cafecentralmadrid.com/
And weather need not be that bad here either. Statistics for weather in Madrid last half of November says average highs at 50-58F, very little rain and average 5 hours sun pr. day. (wetteronline.de)
<had all the natives wearing their winter jackets>
Most Spaniards wear winter jackets when temperatures are below 70F ;-)
Sep 26th, 2015, 02:02 PM
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All great information! Thank you!
Yes, we expect chilly weather in Madrid, and assume we will need coats at night. No outdoor dining for us I guess! Which is really too bad, as it's one of the things I love. We'll have to come back in warmer weather!
Question about domestic flights - I'm checking flights on both Iberia and Vueling from Barcelona to Madrid. While both are quite reasonable (and considerably cheaper than the high speed train, which I understand would be more convenient), Vueling has much better prices. But I've read many bad reviews for Vueling about cancelled flights, changed flights, and lost luggage. Are they as bad as the reviews suggest? Is Iberia any better? Any experience with flying either of these airlines domestically?
About the flamenco, are those two tablaos different from each other in ambience? I've seen you recommend both in other threads kimhe, as well as above. It looks from the websites as if Casa Patas is a restaurant - do you go into another room for the flamenco show? Cardamomo looks like an intimate theatre. Is that right? Can't tell yet who is performing at either one in November.
Yes, we expect chilly weather in Madrid, and assume we will need coats at night. No outdoor dining for us I guess! Which is really too bad, as it's one of the things I love. We'll have to come back in warmer weather!
Question about domestic flights - I'm checking flights on both Iberia and Vueling from Barcelona to Madrid. While both are quite reasonable (and considerably cheaper than the high speed train, which I understand would be more convenient), Vueling has much better prices. But I've read many bad reviews for Vueling about cancelled flights, changed flights, and lost luggage. Are they as bad as the reviews suggest? Is Iberia any better? Any experience with flying either of these airlines domestically?
About the flamenco, are those two tablaos different from each other in ambience? I've seen you recommend both in other threads kimhe, as well as above. It looks from the websites as if Casa Patas is a restaurant - do you go into another room for the flamenco show? Cardamomo looks like an intimate theatre. Is that right? Can't tell yet who is performing at either one in November.
Sep 26th, 2015, 02:24 PM
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Luggage does not get lost by airlines but by baggage handling companies - and AFAIK both Iberia and Vueling use the same company at BCN El Prat airport.
Vueling is a big low-cost airline in Spain and for flights to/from Spain - so you may find more comments regarding Vueling than other airlines which carry fewer people.
Aside from the really cramped legroom and surprisingly lousy food (that you pay for), I did not find anything especially negative about Vueling.
BUT: For travels between Barcelona and Madrid, I would be more than happy to pay more for the convenience to travel from Sants by AVE than to fly with any airline from El Prat.
Vueling is a big low-cost airline in Spain and for flights to/from Spain - so you may find more comments regarding Vueling than other airlines which carry fewer people.
Aside from the really cramped legroom and surprisingly lousy food (that you pay for), I did not find anything especially negative about Vueling.
BUT: For travels between Barcelona and Madrid, I would be more than happy to pay more for the convenience to travel from Sants by AVE than to fly with any airline from El Prat.
Sep 26th, 2015, 04:29 PM
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That's helpful to know about Vueling. Yes, I imagine the train would be far more pleasant, but for the 4 of us it adds up to about $200 more - that's a big difference for a short trip, and we could have a nice meal with our $200 instead!
Which brings me to the next topic - restaurants! I'm going to start a separate thread about that. please come and comment!
Which brings me to the next topic - restaurants! I'm going to start a separate thread about that. please come and comment!
Sep 26th, 2015, 06:03 PM
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$200 is a big difference.
But you must have found really cheap airfare as there are many AVE connections for €40-50 pP in the early AM hours of Nov 24.
www.renfe.es
But you must have found really cheap airfare as there are many AVE connections for €40-50 pP in the early AM hours of Nov 24.
www.renfe.es
Sep 26th, 2015, 10:39 PM
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Tourista Plus fares are around $90 USD, Barcelona_Madrid in mid-November. Regular Tourist fare is only a few dollars less.
Traveling by train means you don't have to take a taxi to the airport and be there at least 90 minutes before departure. Traveling by train is far more comfortable as you will be going from city center to city center.
The November fares using Iberian are not much different.
Traveling by train means you don't have to take a taxi to the airport and be there at least 90 minutes before departure. Traveling by train is far more comfortable as you will be going from city center to city center.
The November fares using Iberian are not much different.
Sep 27th, 2015, 12:02 AM
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Casa Patas is the best flamenco venue (and a great bar and fine restaurant outside the "flamenco room"), and Cardamomo is dark, small and more rock'n roll. They serve dinner in Cardamomo as well. Anything else equal, I would prefer Casa Patas, but rising stars Paloma Fantova and Macarena Ramirez dances in separte performances in Cardamomo through October, and one or both might very well be on through November as well.
Here Paloma Fantova (Puerto Real, Cádiz, 1989) brings Sadler's Wells in London - one of the most prestigious dance scenes in the world - to a boil two years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck7hMzNH3b8
Macarena Ramírez (Chiclana de Frontera, Cádiz, 1992) is an out of this world talent. Reminds me a little of Rocío Molina at the same age, and that is about the finest thing I can say about any young flamenco dancer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f612f72FIS8
Here Paloma Fantova (Puerto Real, Cádiz, 1989) brings Sadler's Wells in London - one of the most prestigious dance scenes in the world - to a boil two years ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ck7hMzNH3b8
Macarena Ramírez (Chiclana de Frontera, Cádiz, 1992) is an out of this world talent. Reminds me a little of Rocío Molina at the same age, and that is about the finest thing I can say about any young flamenco dancer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f612f72FIS8
