Lyon and Paris (and Provence vs Dijon?)

Old Jan 9th, 2017, 05:10 PM
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Lyon and Paris (and Provence vs Dijon?)

At the risk of criticism and ridicule, I am asking advice before fully sorting out this trip. My daughter is starting Med school in the fall and after working to earn money for this trip, is traveling solo for two months beginning in March. She has previously lived in Spain for a year and travelled extensively in Europe, but has only been to Paris in France. I will be meeting her in France in May for 10 days, not including travel days. We both like good food, wine, art, beautiful scenery, hanging out and wandering around in new places, etc. We will be arriving in Paris (different airports) the same day, and are thinking of taking a train to Lyon after arriving in Paris (my jet lag day, she arriving from Dublin). Another choice would be arriving in Paris then taking a train to Avignon. We could rent a car in Avignon and drive to the Luberon area for a few nights. I have spent some time in this area and really enjoyed it. But no lavender blooming and limited time. Instead could take train from Paris to Lyon and spend 4 nights in Lyon, enjoying the sights and food. If we did that, maybe rent a car for one day trip. If so to where? Dijon, Provence? Too much traveling to do Provence for 2 or three nights, Lyon for 2 nights before traveling to Paris? Will spend several Days in Paris after this before flying home. Would appreciate any suggestions!
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Old Jan 9th, 2017, 05:31 PM
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We spent a week in Lyon last fall; it was very nice but I think that The Luberon, even without lavender is a better use of time. I have spent close to 6 months in the area [cumulatively] and think you both would really enjoy The Luberon. Lots to see and do and great restaurants. You will need a car. For a day trip, go to Aix or Marseille and Cassis.

And FWIW -- I would not do 2 and 2 anywhere...do the 4 days in one place.
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Old Jan 9th, 2017, 08:25 PM
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I'm a little confused about how many nights you have available between flying into Paris, and before ending with "several days in Paris". Like Deb, we've spent many months in Provence - and we're returning for 2 more weeks this year. If you plan on spending time in Paris - I would recommend zero time in Lyon - just concentrate on Provence.

I recently updated my Provence & Cote d'Azur itinerary with info about 2 weeks we spent last year in the Ardeche - which is "next door" to Provence. The recently discovered Chauvet cave in the Ardeche with the oldest yet-discovered prehistoric paintings was opened in 2015. These cave paintings are 36,000 years old. The "replica" cave is quite interesting, and there are several other museums on the site that explain the migration of our ancestors to this region. If you would like a copy of my Provence & Cote d'Azur itinerary, e-mail me at [email protected] & I'll attach one to the reply e-mail. Specify that you want the Provence itinerary.

Stu Dudley
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Old Jan 10th, 2017, 08:02 PM
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Stu, I spend 2 weeks in Provence a few years ago and used your itinerary extensively for touring. Thanks for that. I will email you for updated version. My daughter has never been to Provence, but was also interested in Lyon. We can skip Lyon this trip. We are flying into Paris on May10th in the morning and would take the train directly to Avignon on our jet lag day. We are flying out of Paris to the US on May 21st, so I figure that gives us about 10 days. How would I condense the Provence part to fit into our schedule? I would love to take my daughter to the Luberon area. So I guess we could spend a couple of nights in Avignon, one to get over jet lag, and another to see Avignon, then rent a car spending about 4 nights somewhere in the Luberon area. Or just overnight in Avignon to get over jet lag and rent a car the next day and head to the Luberon area for 5 nights.Then return car to Avignon and train back to Paris on the 16th. Four nights in Paris. We have been to Paris several times but have a few things we'd like to see and do this trip. And a few good meals. DebitNM and Stu, where would you recommend we base ourselves in the Luberon area? We would be interested mainly in ambiance and good food. We could tour a few villages and maybe find a market for some linens. Is there a B&B you would recommend? Any suggestions from others would also be recommended.
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Old Jan 11th, 2017, 07:23 AM
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italynovice - at the risk of coming across purposely difficult, I'd suggest spending the time in Lyon, rather than Luberon.

I think that there's an awful lot more of interest Lyon, in autumn, than there is the Luberon, particularly for someone of your daughter's age.

The food in Lyon is widely accepted to be the best in France, it's surrounded by wine producing regions, it has the second largest art gallery in France after the Louvre, along with a brilliant Museum of Contemporary Art and myriad other spaces that have temporary exhibitions. It has architecture ranging from Roman, to screaming modern via Renaissance and everything in between.

It also has what was the world's first museum dedicated to the history of medicine, which sounds like it could be right up your daughter's alley.

I'd suggest skipping the Luberon this time, particularly if your daughter has expressed an interest in Lyon. I think it's fair to say that Provence and the Luberon appeal especially to travellers of a certain vintage, so might not be the most exciting place for a pre-med student to spend her hard-saved cash.

Avignon and Aix en Provence are short train-rides from Lyon, so you could still get a taste of Provence via day trips, whilst possibly appealing more to your daughter's interests.

Whatever you decide, enjoy your trip!
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Old Jan 11th, 2017, 07:43 AM
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>>I think that there's an awful lot more of interest Lyon, in autumn, than there is the Luberon, particularly for someone of your daughter's age.
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Old Jan 11th, 2017, 07:58 AM
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IF you have not booked your air tickets -- do NOT return to Paris. Fly home from Marseille if you decide to do The Luberon. Much closer.

It usually isn't anymore expensive to fly into 1 city and fly out of another - called multi-city ticker or open jaw. We usually fly into Marseille MRS and home from CDG.
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Old Jan 11th, 2017, 08:10 AM
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I have to agree with JayG in that you should think about whether you want a city experience or a countryside one. We spent a week in Lyon in the winter no less and enjoyed every day. We had plenty to do and outside of Paris is my favorite city in France. I think you can't go wrong with either plan.

I agree to do an open jaw as Debit described.
Have a great trip
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Old Jan 11th, 2017, 08:29 AM
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Actually, we like to return to Paris, stay overnight, then fly home the next morning.

About 3 years ago after flying from Montpellier, to Paris, to SFO - we decided that two legs on the return trip is too tiring (OK for going over - as we can sleep most of the way). Twice last years and again this year, we are doing so. It's especially great for returning from Provence. We can get to the Paris Gare de Lyon in 2 3/4 hrs, check into the Terminus Hotel across the street from the Gare, and then have our last night's dinner at the Train Bleu in the Gare.
http://www.le-train-bleu.com/uk/index.php

Stu Dudley
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Old Jan 11th, 2017, 09:02 AM
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>

I don't see why that would be too much traveling, it's only 3 places on a trip (Provence, Lyon and Paris). I do stuff like that all the time. You have 10 days, after all. You could easily do 4 in Provence, 2 in Lyon and 3 in Paris. It really depends how much time you want to spend in Paris (or 4 in Paris, 3 in Provence). You'd just pick one base in Provence, obviously.

I would never stay in Lyon and rent a car to do day trips, but renting a car in a city is a PITA as far as I'm concerned. Besides, you don't need a car to go to Dijon, that's for sure. It's a city and you can easily get there by train in only 1:30-2 hrs direct, it will be a lot better than renting a car to go there for a day trip.

It isn't clear what your daughter wants to do, but you could do Provence+Lyon or Lyon+Dijon before Paris, easily. If you did the latter, you wouldn't need a car.
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Old Jan 12th, 2017, 12:57 AM
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Stu - my mistake. I saw that the daughter was starting school in fall and latched onto that, however I still think Lyon sounds like a more suitable choice for this trip.

Completely agree with your recommendation of Le Train Bleu though. Before the Eurostar started going direct from Lyon to London, I'd always book a departure time that would allow me and my family to have lunch there before heading over to Gare du Nord to catch the train home. Always felt like a fitting end to our holiday.
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Old Jan 12th, 2017, 11:47 AM
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Christina, just what my daughter and I were discussing. She is great with Provence. She will be traveling in Europe solo for a month prior to meeting me in France, and will be centered mostly in cities with only a few day trips to outlying areas. So the idea of beautiful scenery, car rental, nice B&B, nice wine and meals appeals to her (she'll be 26 by time of trip). So we're discussing doing just Provence and Paris, vs cutting back our time in Paris and doing 4 days in Provence, 2 in Lyon, and 3 in Paris. If we did a couple days in Lyon, it seems we could return the car back in Avignon at the train station (about 45 minutes to an hour drive depending on where we stayed in the Luberon), then take a 1 hour train to Lyon. After our 2 days there we would take 2 hr train to Paris.
Open jaw not possible as tickets booked. I'm happy this case taking train back to Paris for fewer legs on trip home.
So, doing a lot of reading, going over Stu's itinerary for Provence, and will decide if going to Lyon for such a short time makes sense for this trip. Still trying to decide where to stay in Provence. When I traveled to Provence previously, I spent a week in the Gargas area (I think La Mas Jorel B&B) then a week in St Remy. I loved our place and location in the Luberon area that trip, but would like to try something new.
Thanks for the advice and would welcome any further.
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Old Jan 12th, 2017, 02:30 PM
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About trains:

Booking way way early can nab nifty discounted fares for TGV trains like Paris to Lyon or Avignon, etc.

www.voyages-sncf.com -book your own ticket-cheapest ones not changeable not refundable I believe. Many trains are TGV Duplex or double-decker trains and seats on the upper level have a vastly superior view IME- select required seat reservation when booking. For lots on trains in general check www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com; and www.ricksteves.com.
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Old Jan 12th, 2017, 02:50 PM
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Even cheaper are iDTGV trains and they are for practical purposes the same as regular TGV cars.

www.idtgv.com/en
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Old Jan 13th, 2017, 02:29 PM
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I think I have come up with a plan that will work for us. Land in Paris and take train directly to Lyon. Spend one jet lag evening then another day and night in Lyon just to get a feel for the city and have a nice meal or two. Then take the one hour train to Avignon, rent a car at the train station, and meander into the Luberon area, maybe after a,short excursion to Chateauneuf du Pape. Check into our B&B and spend four nights in that area. Then to Avignon, return car at train station, and take train to Paris where we will still have have several nights before our flight home. Now,on to securing accommodations and car rental. I think train tickets are 3 months ahead, is that right? And figuring out restaurants. Any suggestions welcomed. Don't need Michelin rated but spots with ambiance and good food in some of the villages. Or Lyon. Appreciated being able to mull things over and get opinions.
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Old Jan 13th, 2017, 02:41 PM
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Sounds like a good plan to me.

Our TR from Lyon has some good restaurant recs. We really liked the food in Lyon -- 2nd only to Paris and many consider it better.
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Old Jan 13th, 2017, 03:52 PM
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We've dined at Bartavelle in Goult many times, and Le Carillon (www.restaurant-goult.com/) too (also in Goult).

Unfortunately, both are recommended in the Michelin Guide.

Don't miss the Traboules in Lyon.
https://www.francetoday.com/archives/lyon_s_traboules/

Stu Dudley
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Old Jan 13th, 2017, 09:03 PM
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Thanks yestravel. I always enjoy and get a lot out of trip reports. Looking forward to our brief time in Lyon. Thanks for restaurant suggestions Stu. Meant to say Michelin star restaurants, not Michelin rated (Although we will want to have one or two exquisite meals on ou trip)!
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Old Jan 18th, 2017, 07:44 PM
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Stu According to their website Le Bartavelle is now Ferme au Public.
Private only...

http://labartavelle.ca/
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Old Jan 18th, 2017, 09:17 PM
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Different restaurant, different continent.

882, chemin Quest
Hemmingford (Québec)

Stu Dudley
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