I have previously posted tin one of your threads about KLMs luggage requirement.
Here is Iberia Express:
http://www.iberiaexpress.com/en/baggage/
I cannot see where it states "small regional flights the cabin luggage may have to be checked"
If you take or try to take on more than on any airline you can either be expected to repack or pay the extra charges they see fit to charge. Any hand luggage that break the rules will normally be stored in the hold. That again will involve an extra charge.
Here is a list of items that you cannot carry onto aircraft within Europe.
http://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/passenger-rights/air-security/index_en.htm

Now KLM are going to charge for hold luggage on European flights they are stepping up controls on hand luggage too. Anything which they deem to big/heavy will be gate checked and you will pay for it. They have machines at the gate for payment.

Personal item means: a laptop bag, a small handbag, or a small camera bag. It doesn't mean another backpack/holdall/handbag-the-size-of-Miami. They are also going to be checking on those.

All airlines state very clearly what they allow as carry-on, and what they consider to be a personal item, if they even allow an extra item of carry-on. They also state what they will charge you for checking anything deemed unsuitable as carry-on.

If you must take your pillow on board, then invest in a space bag to compress its size so it fits inside your small carry-on. Once on the plane you can remove it from the space bag and it returns to full size.

Thanks for your replies.

Regarding the "personal item," naturally I know they don't mean something the same size as the carry-on. I guess the question is what they mean by "small handbag." There don't seem to be any specific dimensions stated anywhere. I will assume that since they also allow diaper bags and briefcases in this category then a purse that is roughly the size of these items is acceptable.

Regarding the possibility of gate-checking on "regional" airlines, I asked because of the following:

From the KLM Website

"Flights operated by KLM Cityhopper and KLM Boeing 737 aircraft have limited storage space in the cabin, and so we may ask you to put your hand baggage in the hold."

http://www.klm.com/travel/us_en/prepare_for_travel/baggage/hand_baggage/index.htm


FROM THE IBERIA SITE:

"[The carry on bag] must fit in the closed overhead lockers installed for this purpose, or below the passenger’s seat . . . If your baggage is over size it will be taken from you at the boarding gate."

http://www.iberiaexpress.com/en/baggage/hand-luggage/

Putting these two together, I assumed that the "closed overhead lockers" could be (as they are in regional airplanes in the US) smaller than the allowed measurements and that, just as in the US, the regional planes would perhaps not let me bring my favorite carry on into the cabin. In the US, that is a "gate check" and it doesn't cost anything extra or cause any extra trouble beyond having to wait for the gate-checked luggage before going on to the next stage of travel.

My question is whether "ask you to put your hand baggage in the hold" is the same as US-style gate-checking or if it is a procedure that requires returning to the luggage check area, additional fees, etc.

Does anyone know?

F

In my experience if they ask you to put luggage in the hold due to small overhead bins you just take the hand luggage to the plane and place it on a rack, then they put it into the hold. You retrieve it from the same racks as you exit the plane at the end of your journey.

Re my pillow:

It does not compress in any significant way, even when I've used those vacuum bags. It is a special pillow with support for my back.

If I take it in carry-on, not only would it take up 1/4 of my bag but I would be slowing people down after I entered the plane while I rushed to get it out of my bag before placing the bag on the overhead compartment.

The sites I have seen do not indicate if things like this could be allowed with a medical statement of some sort, but I could definitely get a note from my MD if that would make a difference. (As I said, the pillow doesn't weigh much and it doesn't take up any space that my body isn't already going to be occupying.)

Thanks for the feedback.

F

RE: "In my experience if they ask you to put luggage in the hold due to small overhead bins you just take the hand luggage to the plane and place it on a rack, then they put it into the hold. You retrieve it from the same racks as you exit the plane at the end of your journey."

Thanks Jamikins. That is what we call "gate check" in the US and what I was hoping to hear.

F

If your hand luggage meets the airlines' size restrictions and if you have to gate-check it due to limited space in the cabin, there should not be a charge.

Doubt you would have to return to check in desks.

I assume it's similar to flights where you walk across the tarmac, hand your luggage to a baggage person, climb steps to the plane and do the reverse as you get off. Or, hand luggage is delivered to the ramp if you debark that way.

PIA, but I've never had tp pay.

Of course, anything is possible these days.

If you can't compress the pillow, it will be considered either your personal item (if it is small enough) or your carry on. IME you definitely would not be allowed a carry on, a personal item, AND a pillow.

You don't get a 3rd item - even a pillow. Either it has to fit in you carry-on (and perhaps be gate-chceked) - just as in the US. Or it has to fit inside your personal item (a small handbag, briefacase or computer bag).

In my experience european airlines do not allow the 22: plus wheels and handle that US airlines do. They typically want 19:INCLUDING wheels and handle - since many of the planes have smaller overhead bins. I have been on flights back to the US when many passengers with the std 22" US sized bag all had to gate check them - yes - 20 or 30 people while I ws waiting to board and I'm sure more overall.

I would make sure everything you have is well within the size allowed - and not try to take anything extra on with you - such as a large coat with a bunch of pockets or a special pillow.

Thanks for all the feedback.

I am disappointed to hear that even a special back pillow made necessary by back problems (which can be documented by an MD) would probably not be allowed, but it is best to prepare in advance.

What I'll probably do is carry it aboard as an extra item on the Delta flights (to and from US) where I don't expect any trouble, and put it in checked baggage when traveling in Europe. (It's the long flights when I absolutely need it anyway.)

I haven't carried a "std 22" US sized bag" in at least 10 years. My bag is less than 20 inches (and, as stated above, satisfies the KLM and Iberia requirements). Even so, it does not fit under the seat (that would be around 16 inches) and I've had to gate check it many times.

Though its more convenient to have the bag with me for the whole flight, gate checking is all right so long as I don't have to pay extra or walk back to the ticket counter or something at the last minute. You have all reassured me. Thanks.


F

>>would probably not be allowed<< Sure it is allowed - just not w/ TWO other items.

The usual procedure with hand luggage on small regional planes like a Canadair jet or KLM's small Fokkers would be "gangway check-in". (as jamikins explained)
So you take your luggage to the plane (usually by bus as those small aircrafts often can't use the jetways) and leave it there in a baggage cart right next to the gangway.
At your destination, all that hand luggage will be taken out of hold before pax are allowed to deplane. And at the bottom of the gangway you will find the same type of baggage cart to pick-up your hand luggage.
There is no charge.

If there is no dedicated "gangway check-in" but you find no space to accomodate your "legally sized" hand luggage in the cabin, e.g. cause the flight is fully booked, it will be brought from the aircraft cabin down to the hold (not by you but by a baggage handler).
In this case, you will need to pick it up again at the regular baggage claims carousel at your destination.
Again, no charge for this procedure as long as your cabin luggage was within the limits (size, weight, number/type of pieces).

If you are unsure about your pillow, it would be best to address the airlines' customer relations desk by mail and get clarification from them. Check-in personnel or FAs have no medical expertise to assess whether you need that pillow or just want to feel comfy so in a worst-case szenario they would have to play by the airlines' rules.

I think there is a difference between a pillow that you use for your back and ordinary carry on objects. A back pillow is more in the category of children's car seats that get carried on board so the child will sit in it during the flight. Like the child's car seat, the pillow takes no extra space or time to stow--and unlike the car seat the weight of the pillow is minimal.

Be that as it may, I gather that it is the consensus of this group that according to European carry on regulations, it would not be allowed in addition to the regular carry on. That is what I wanted to know.

I may check with customer service at KLM and Iberia to see if there is some way I can get permission to carry my pillow on board in addition to the allowed carry on luggage. Good idea.

A letter from your MD doesn;t make the plane any bigger. If you bring on extra stuff then other people don;t get to bring their one carry-on. It's a simple matter of space per passenger.

If the back problem is so bad and the pillow so importnat then pay extra, fly first and you can bring what you want.

I have never seen a child's car seat inside a cabin.
Children's car seats and buggies go into the hold.

I have been flying with back and neck pillows for more than 10 years. What I carry evolved as I found more compact and lighter ways to do the same thing. At the beginning, I carried "std" orthopedic pillows. I quickly figured out that it took too much carry-on space. I then switched to memory foam based products. They were more compressible, but still took too much space. I then looked at the memory foam and realized that about half of the bulk was not essential and could be supplemented by normal pillows, so I opened the pillow and cut off about half of the material. After flying several more years, I realize even these pillows still took too much of the carry-on capacity. I now fly only with inflatable pillows. They are not as comfortable as the memory foam pillows, but take only a fraction of the space and weight when deflated. In case of inflatable products, the geometry is very important as they don't form around the back and the neck like memory foam products. I have probably gone through pretty much everything the market has to offer and settled on a few products that are "acceptable" substitutes for memory foam pillows. With inflatable pillows, I need to make sure to depressurize the pillows as the cabin pressure decreases to prevent bursting the pillows which would probably scare the fellow passengers

The child's car seat can often be used in the seat the child is occupying - since regular seat belts don't work for small kids. But - it's part of the seat for child safety - not an extra item brought onboard.

Re "the child seat can . . . be used in the seat the child is occupying...it's part of the seat . .. not an extra item brought on board."

Yes it is an extra item brought on board. It does not count as carry on luggage if the child sits om it... at least it didn't when my kids were small and more recently when my daughter's best friend came home with baby for Easter. But these were US airlines.

I sit against the back cushion for the whole trip, so it would be part of my seat.

I have never had anu problem with it in the US. I explain that it's for my back and won't take up carryon space and I am waived through.

I can accept that European airlines might be more "by the book" but I don't understand why people on this forum can't see the difference between a piece of luggage that will impinge on other people's space and a cushion that is needed for a bad back and which would hurt no one if allowed.


I think it is possible for something to be reasonable and still not allowed.

>>I don't understand why people on this forum can't see the difference between a piece of luggage that will impinge on other people's space and a cushion<<

It has absolutely no relevance what anyone 'on this forum' thinks one way or the other. If the airline says one item carried in the cabin - they generally mean one item

Janisj -- I know that the opinions/tone of forum members are irrelevant. That is precisely my point. I asked a reasonable question. The answer (that the European airlines would be more likely than the US ones to count a back pillow as a carry on object) was useful, and I thank those who gave the information they had about it.

Continuing messages about how the question I asked was unreasonable (because of course an item is an item is an item) don't accomplish anything except making people afraid of asking questions.

F

But - an 'item' IS an item after all . . .

Why don't you just attach it to yourself under your shirt as a brace when boarding the plane?

>>The child's car seat can often be used in the seat the child is occupying - since regular seat belts don't work for small kids. But - it's part of the seat for child safety - not an extra item brought onboard.<<

To take a car seat on board you have to purchase a seat for the child. If the child is over 2 you would have to anyway, but under 2 they usually sit on the adults lap. The car seat is most definitely an extra item brought on board.

I don't agree with the consensus of the "group" that a pillow would not be allowed on board, or if it is, it has to be paid for, neither do I agree that European airlines are stricter with luggage allowances than US airlines. People take on board personal items the whole time whether its a cushion or a blanket. Doctor's letters only open a whole can of worms so wouldn't go down that route. Even on Ryanair which is much critised on this forum, my carry-on bag (which I have in addition to hold luggage) is over the stated dimensions plus I purchase duty free.

Just a quick clarification:
When I was talking about car seats of course I was thinking of cases where the child has his/her own paid for seat. And in those cases, the child's car seat is allowed as an extra item (in addition to a carry on and a diaper bag). At least, that has been my experience. So that is three "items" with one of them being allowed (I assume) because it is necessary and it takes up no space from the other passengers.

As for whether European airlines are or are not stricter, they do indeed have stricter rules (smaller sizes of bags allowed and a weight limit). But I'm not surprised to hear that they are not always strictly enforced.

As Odin points out, duty free items are allowed over and above the allowed carry on, so there is probably some flexibility/discretion involved.

As for attaching the pillow to myself to board the plane, I don't know if the suggestion was serious or sarcastic, but it has certainly caused me amusement.

Exactly what is allowed on will depend on several factors:

Size of the plane
How crowded the plane is
The specific airlines rules about carry-ons in number and size
How strict the airline is about carry-ons
How strictly the gate agent will follow the rules

To assume that you will get an extra carry-on is foolhardy - since it may result in your having to gate check something else in order to bring a pillow on board. So you may be left with the choice of checking your carry-on or leaving your pillow behind.

If everyone wanted to bring a pillow on board - where would all the other carry-ons go?

I don't understand people who seem to think that the rules apply to everyone but them.

What you can carry on depends, as nytraveler said, on the specific airline, also the size of the plane and probably almost as important 'how strictly the gate agent will follow the rules'. If the gate agent is in a bad mood you're screwed. If they like the way you look, you can get away with all kinds of stuff. It really is a crap shoot. However, some airlines do have stricter rules and tend to follow them more strictly than others (easyjet and ryanair being the most notorious).

Weight is as important as size.

The answer to this question "If everyone wanted to bring a pillow on board - where would all the other carry-ons go?" is - they would go the same place they go anyway - the pillow is going to be in the seat, behind the passengers back. It is not going to take any space from overhead (or even from under seat).

Ferris - try emailing the airlines and asking if you can bring the pillow and if they say yes print out the email to show the gate agent.

And as ridiculous as it sounds, the person who suggested stuffing it under your clothing has a point. Unless you are already a very large person, it probably won't make you any larger than some of the other passengers.

DS was fully packed..all into his back pack carryon after 10 days in Spain and his small personal bag...No room anywhere for his neck pillow (which he desparately needs) so he snapped it around his neck..Looking ridiculous he checked in, boarded and got a big laugh from the crew when he was called upon to explain his creative manuever.. How big is your pillow? Mine is down and I can squeeze it up small and do! I can see you strapping it to your back with a bungey cord and wearing a loose jacket. LOL..I'm sure you can find a way!!!

My pillow is essentially a lumbar support thing that cradles my back. It is not fluffy or flexible. It fits my back from my shoulder blades to my rear. It would not fit under most jackets even if I figured out a way of attaching it that wouldn't slide down.

I don't anticipate any problem on the flight out. I have never had a problem in the US. I have only been called on it once and when I said, "It's just a pillow for my back. It won't take extra space," I was told that it was ok.

My plan is to use it only on the transatlantic trips. In Europe the pillow will go in my checked luggage. I am a little concerned about the trip from London to US, but I'll risk it.

I *was* going to write to the airlines but I had so much trouble explaining the situation on this forum that I figured it would be a hassle to try to explain it to the airlines.