kovsie

DD and I are going to Paris for almost a month – 18 July to 14 August. It is our first trip to France, and we are so looking forward to it. As part of a home exchange, we will stay in a suburb called ILLENEUVE LE ROI. The more I read, the more I become aware of how very crowded the central areas are going to be.

As a matter of principle, I would rather NOT try to see the Mona Lisa than peeking through 100s of people (I am short!). I assume that sections of the Louvre with (e.g.) Arabian art will be less popular. What else?

I think what will make it easier is to focus on day trips to smaller towns, lesser known museums, streets a few blocks away from the main routes. But, since I do not know Paris at all, even this may be difficult to work out.

I know it will be better to go early or late to main attractions. But will this really help for places like the Louvre? (In Rome I was the only person that I could see, watching the sunrise over the Coliseum and Forum one morning in summer.)

One place at the top of the wish list is Monet’s Giverny (for me). Another is Versailles (for DD).

I love art, music, architecture, very old places, cats, books, food … I would prefer to travel by bus or train. We have this house in Paris, but we can perhaps spend a few nights in a small town somewhere (yes, I know it is late).

Those of you who know and love Paris – can you help me plan so that we have some experience of the ‘real Paris / real France’ – not just of jostling crowds?

kerouac

If you are an early riser, crowds will not be much of a problem because the only main competition will be the Chinese tourists -- but since most of them are in groups, they are in different queues.

August is pretty much low season in Paris anyway.

Sarastro

I assume you understand that Villeneuve le Roi is just to the east of the main runways of Orly airport. Did you inquire about the noise of low flying aircraft in this neighborhood?

A house in Villeneuve le Roi will not be a house in Paris, which is about 10 miles to the north. If you want to avoid crowds, and people in general, you have probably made a good location choice.

As for the crowds in Paris, that is probably true of the inner portions of the single digit arrondissements and in the popular museum such as the Louver and Orsay. However, much of Paris is quiet in August when most people are on vacation, particularly in the outer arrondissements.

kovsie

Sarastro: I thought long and hard before accepting this exchange - and also asked for help from fodorites. In the end I decided to go for it. It is not a 'pretty' environment, but it is very near Paris and it does give me the luxery of time. The accommodation had been finalized, now I have to work out how best to spend the time there.

Kerouac: I have seen photos of places like the Louvre and Sacre Coeur in summer, and I thought it a bit scary! I have this idea that all Parisians are gone, and the city is taken over by tourists like me. Perhaps I am wrong?

kerouac

Parisians do not take vacations the way they used to. In the old days, many would take the entire month of July or the entire month of August off -- sometimes without even choosing the time if they were industrial workers, because their factory would shut down for a month. Those days are long gone because most people have at least six weeks of vacation during the year (5 weeks is the rock bottom legal minimum) plus often another two weeks or more of compensatory ("RTT") days. So vacation time is split into smaller segments all through the year. Only a few small shops and restaurants now close for a few weeks during the summer but usually not if they are in a tourist zone, with the notable exception of Berthillon.

The tourist mix in Paris changes as the season progresses. Most Americans come in May or June, while the Italians and Spanish prefer August or September. The other main nationalities (Benelux, UK, Germany) make many short visits all though the year, usually according to the school holiday calendar of their countries. But yes, there are plenty of them in July.

kovsie

Thanks kerouac - this means that it will still be busy, but some of the people will actually be the people of the country. And not everything closes down as some websites imply. This is good news.
I did see that the Paris Opera is only starting again in September, nothing going on while we are there.

welltraveledbrit

Here are some suggestions for you

1) Yes to the less populated sections of the Louvre. The Oceanic and African sections as well as the redone Islamic gallery... you can even enter through the Porte des Lions
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2013/...at-louvre.html
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2013/...at-louvre.html

2) The Albert Kahn Gardens which have been mentioned on the board recently.
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2013/...ens-paris.html
There are lots of other gardens too, Butte
Bois de Boulogne, Jardin des Plantes, Parc des Buttes-Chaumont and lots more too.

3)I'm sure people can give you lots of ideas for smaller less busy museums.
we loved the Musee National Gustave Moureau.
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2013/...e-moureau.html

4)The Jaquemart Andre may be busy if there's a special exhibit but hopefully it won't be swamped. You can combine it with the nearby Nissim Comodo.
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2013/...dre-paris.html

5) Lots more ideas on my blog including my Teop Ten recommendations for Paris.
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2013/...for-paris.html

You don't have to go very far from the center to get away from the crowds. Buy a walking tour book and explore the arrondissements you don't know, there's lots to see everywhere.

I hope you have a wonderful trip.

PatrickLondon

Another small "house" museum is the Cognacq-Jay in the Marais, which is free. Around there can get busy at the weekends, but not (for a city-dweller) unbearable. Apart from a very few of the most-mentioned items, like the Mona Lisa, I don't think you'll have a major problem.

kovsie

Well-T-brit - your blog had been bookmarked, thanks for such rich info.

Can anybody recommend cooking classes presented in English?

Dukey1

I am not sure why you have decided to ALLOW a bunch of other visitors who are no different than you are in their desire to experience Paris, <B>dictate</B> your sightseeing activities and IMO the Louvre visit is the perfect example.

Yes, the place can be a mob scene and there is a very good reason for that. But if you plan your visit I think there may be a good chance you won't be required to "try to see" anything because of either your stature or the number of other people in the room.

Time to get up early.

welltraveledbrit

Glad the blog was useful, I like the Cognacq-Jay in the Marais too, it's a good recommendation on one of a number of rathe nice small city run museums.

kovsie

I do get up early Dukey, that is why I gave the above example of an experience in Rome. I love to walk the streets of a new city while the rest of the world is sleeping. I am asking for advice. As I understand, the Louvre opens at 9am; by 9.30 it can be 'a mob scene'. I just cannot absorb art - or any other kind of beauty - when I am pushed and shoved.
So please, tell me how to 'plan my visit' - I will appreciate it!

Gretchen

You are there for a month. Surely you can put up with some crowds--and then find things that aren't so crowded. The Mona Lisa is sort of a red herring--it is always crowded and it has never gotten any bigger--it's a small painting!! I have never been pushed or shoved at the Orsay--or in many other parts of the Louvre. The Marmottan can be close to deserted, as also the Rodin. You are putting up barriers that may not even be there.

kovsie

Thanks Gretchen this is good to know. I feel a bit intimidated by images such as this one (sorry for the long link, hope it works):
https://www.google.ae/search?q=crowd...ml%3B550%3B366

AlessandraZoe

I have never ever felt as crowded in Paris as I have in Rome. I agree with Gretchen that your vision of crowding may be a tad overblown.

Strategies for visiting all museums (and Giverny) are basically the same:
--Arrive before opening OR arrive late in the day
--NEVER go on free entry days
--Buy a museum pass (must be used on consecutive days--and the number of days you buy is up to you) to avoid MOST, but not all lines. You can pick it up at the airport now and not start the consecutive days until you decide to do so. If you are there are month, you might want to buy several so you can go on "museum benders" intermittently.
--Use that museum pass wisely to permit yourself to GET OUT of the museum when you feel stifled so that you can RETURN when you want to later in the day or the next day.
--Zero in on something you want to see first and then meander. For example, if you do want to see the Mona Lisa, then enter at opening, go right to it, and move on. Those idiots taking selfies of themselves and their family members in front of it are nowhere to be found near my favorite painting I revisit: The Coronation of Napoleon by David. They have never entered, I swear, the Reubens Medici Hall. I have never seen them in the Napoleon apartments. No tour group has blocked my favorite Durer painting. THE LOUVRE IS HUGE!!!!

There are so many small museums in Paris that few visit. MaineGG just posted a nice link on another thread yesterday: http://www.paris.fr/english/museums/...-museums/p8229

Your touring does not have to be museums. One year, we totally avoided all art museums (yes, we did suffer withdrawal). Instead, we toured ALL the covered passages that we could find in Paris. This page lists some of them:
http://en.parisinfo.com/discovering-...vered-passages

If you truly fear crowds, don't go up the Eiffel Tower. I love seeing it lit up every night; the thrill of going up it is not the same at all, quite frankly.

Daytrips abound. Instead of just Giverny, there's Chartres, Fountainbleu, Reims and more. Cathedrals and chateaux aren't packed the same way the Sistine Chapel is.

I do worry about your choice of lodging. Sometimes staying IN a congested area gives you more options to dodge people at prime hours. For example, Metro Line 1 is a zoo during rush hours, and we learned just to hoof it to the Louvre before opening rather than squish ourselves onto the Metro then.

But I'm sure you will deal. Heck, you are going to have to!

kovsie

OK thanks Gretchen and AZoe - I am very glad to stand corrected. I will now officially relax about the crowds - and the selfie sticks.

Regarding the accommodation: This is part of a home exchange, so I stay for free for a month. As you say - I will just deal with the consequences
Earlier this year I did ask advice from wise fodorites. After initial misgivings, most people were very positive.

Gretchen

As for the pictures of the Louvre--why bother.

kerouac

You can have certain areas of the city all to yourself in the morning, such as the Mouzaïa.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...tern-paris.cfm

You can even have Montmartre all to yourself.

http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...t-tourists.cfm

AlessandraZoe

Oh Gretchen, do not get me started on the selfies.

WALK OF SHAME:

Years ago, we were a family who went to Disney World EVERY YEAR. I think one year we went twice. I'm trying to block that out.

To my credit (and this actually is pertinent to the "avoid crowds" theme): We only went in Off Season when crowds, flight costs and hotel costs were nada. Four, maybe five of those visits were on the MLK weekend, which Disney has now found a way to overpopulate.

And OMG, were we prepared.

I was a total devotee to the Unofficial Guide to Disney World, and we had park entries (and exits) down to a science. My kids were geared up with RUNNING SHOES (once they were out of strollers), little waistpacks with Mickey ponchos(!), and duplicate copies of my daily ride plans.

We zoomed through the park. Heck, we could ride Space Mountain three times easily before there was a line to make us leave. Park feeling a bit crowded? We would leave and go down the road. We'd nap. We'd have a few beers. We'd come back at the PERFECT time when most of the other visitors were pooped.

So I guess I'm saying we could do a workaround for every possible contingency in Disney World--and I could find a way to outwit the Disney brilliance at taking everyone's cash at that time--except for ONE thing:

Video Cameras.

I kid you not. Remember when those humongous things were everywhere? These mostly male idiots thought they had the right to block my kids' view of anything--be it the parade or fireworks--because "they were filming."

While I would be fuming and just about ready to say something, my husband used to chuckle and say, "Calm down. They've filmed everything, and they have SEEN nothing in any time they have been here. And they are going to force someone to watch all these darn videos! Think of those poor souls before YOU get upset."

So when I recently got upset watching a someone do a selfie against a really moving portrayal of Christ on the cross in Toledo, Spain, I luckily glanced at him and he signaled, "Remember what I always say." He's right--I don't think they "saw" anything, and it is their loss.

KTtravel

I went to Versailles a few years ago in August and arrived just as it was opening. My aunt, daughter and I felt like we owned the palace as we strolled the almost empty grounds.