katharilm

We are planning our first trip to Europe together. We are shooting for September 2017. I have gone through so many iterations for itinerary I thought I'd seek the advise of the well traveled in a forum We are setting aside +/-10-14 days. Right now the itinerary looks like this: Munich for a few days to see nearby Castles and Abbeys. My husband is an avid home brewer and wants to experience the beer culture not necessarily Oktoberfest but the abbey/monasteries that still brew. Then I'd like to travel to Switzerland, specifically Lucerne, Locarno (Lavertezzo), and Zermatt. I need advise on whether it is feasible to go to all these places or to skip some and how to travel (car or train). Then I planned to go from Zermatt to either Milan and Venice or Turin and Cirque Terre. One of the other iterations of this trip included Budapest but eliminated Italy. Any opinions or advice on how long to stay, other destinations, or places that we should skip would be greatly appreciated.

greg

We sea this type of inquiry often in this forum. Much of the disconnect comes from lack of understanding of travel time.

I think the first step is realizing just how long it takes to move around. All your time in Europe MINUS travel time MINUS accommodation check-in/out pack/unpack overheads, is what you are left with. That determines what you can do. While this seems obvious, many first timers completely skip this step and start pursuing fairy tale itineraries.

If you just want to simple answers, just google it. "Munich to Luzern" in the google search would give you first cut travel time and routes.

If you want to be more specific, For driving www.viamichelin.com gives more realistic travel time than google map. For train www.bahn.com gives you travel times and schedules.

Once you have tools to grasp which segments are major hassle to connect/time consuming, you will be able to start sorting out fairy tales from realities.

kja

I agree with greg.

You can get some idea of transportation options and times with rome2rio.com.

Good luck!

spaarne

Looking for itenerary advise Switzerland, Germany, Italy
Posted by: katharilm on Nov 11, 16 at 1:16pm

I also agree with the tough love served by Greg. You have a six week program that will never fit in two weeks. Ask you boss for a month of unpaid leave.

Since you are still thinking about where to go I suggest getting a copy of Lonely Planet's "Europe on a Shoestring" and start reading. Then get copies of the Michelin Green Guides for the places you select.

While not giving any specifics on train schedules or costs you can get an illustrated introduction to European train travel at http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap17/rail.htm. If you decide on driving see http://www.enjoy-europe.com/hte/chap18/auto-1.htm for a look at the big differences you will experience on Europe's roads, and parking places when you can find one.

katharilm

Thanks for the information and I appreciate the honesty and 'tough love' approach. I have looked into some of the train stuff and I think this is the way to go. I know our itinerary is a bit pie in the sky. Hence the reason for asking the experienced. I absolutely love traveling and do cram a lot into my trips. I still would like to hear opinions regarding which placed I mentioned are worth seeing or skipping keeping in mind the goals of: Outdoors-y activities(scenic), historical significance, and good food. We obviously need to pair down the destinations. Thanks in advance.

rncheryl

I wouldn't "pare down" Switzerland. It was the most stunning scenery I have ever seen. The train system is outstanding. You get on their web site and find what platform the train is arriving/departing, and how long you have between transfers. We were there for way too short a time, but enjoyed Lucerne and Wengen. It was September, by the way and weather was lovely.

kja

The problem is that you can find "Outdoors-y activities(scenic), historical significance, and good food" in any of the areas you listed. Of the places you mention, I think many people would direct you to Switzerland and perhaps the Cinque Terre for scenic outdoors activities and Munich or Venice for history, but none of these places are devoid of scenery, outdoor options, or historical significance. Some people may tell you that the food in some of these areas isn't great; others will tell you that they found delicious meals in each. So really, you need to make some choices.

To help become more realistic, you might think in week-long chunks: A week in Bavaria; a week in Switzerland; a week in northern Italy ... which two appeal most?

PalenQ

For lots of info on trains - which are fabulous - check www.ricksteves.com;www.budgeteuropetravel.com and www.seat61.com.

Renting a car in one country and returning it in another can often result in steep drop-off charges for doing so.

PalenQ

I'd like to travel to Switzerland, specifically Lucerne, Locarno (Lavertezzo), and Zermatt. I need advise on whether it is feasible to go to all these places or to skip some and how to travel (car or train).>

If going to those places by train from the German border look at some kind of Swiss Pass or Swiss Transfer Ticket + Half-Off Half-Off pass or a straight up Half-Off-Pass -all described in the links I give you above.

neckervd

There are direct buses from Munich to Bellinzona (6 1/2 hrs journey; fares start at 22 EUR). From there it's easy to proceed to Locarno or Lavertezzo:
Munich dp 8.30 - Bellinzona ar 15.05
Belllinzona dp 16.00 - Lavertezzo ar 16.58 resp Locarno ar 16.27
Munich dp 14.00 - Bellinzona 20.35/21.00 - Locarno ar 21.27

The train travel from Locarno to Zermatt is very scenic (Centovalli Express, Simplon railway or better PostBus over the Simplon Pass).

PalenQ

The train travel from Locarno to Zermatt is very scenic (Centovalli Express, Simplon railway>

Simplon Railway? Domodossola -Brig all in tunnel about - scenic? Now Brig to Zermatt is awesomely scenic.

The postal bus over Simplon Pass is awesome but much longer- get it at Domodossola train station, get off at Visp.

michelhuebeli

Since this hasn't come up yet - the website (in English) of the Swiss railways is http://www.sbb.ch/en/home.html

Leave Italy for another trip, you can't do what you wish to do in Germany and in Switzerland AND then go to Italy, too.

Add a couple of worthwhile targets while in Switzerland - near Lucerne for example there are plenty (Pilatus, Rigi, a ride on the public boats on lake Lucerne which, in Swiss dialect, is called Vierwaldstättersee, or go up on Brienzer Rothorn, do a hike in the Hasliberg region - to name just a few that you can google or look up on http://www.myswitzerland.com/en-us/home.html

Zermatt is high up in the mountains above the Rhone valley - one way in, same way out, and if you go, go up on the Gornergrat for the best views of the iconic Matterhorn. Stay two nights so you have one full day.

Not far is the lake Geneva where you might find the Montreux-Vevey region worth a visit for a few nights. Visit the Chillon Castle.

While there, go up to the Rochers de Naye, a wildflower paradise with indescribable views - see http://www.goldenpass.ch/en/goldenpass/offer/view?id=12

The same train company gets you to a day-trip visit of a very fine chocolate factory and a Gruyère cheese visit - see http://www.goldenpass.ch/en/goldenpass/offer/view?id=15

There is much more to see and do in Switzerland - no need to move every day or two, stay put and make day-trips. The country looks tiny, but there are mountains and lakes and not every trip goes as the crow flies.

neckervd

To Palen ("Simplon Railway? Domodossola -Brig all in tunnel about - scenic? Now Brig to Zermatt is awesomely scenic")

After having left Domodossola, the train gets up to Preglia with views over the plain of Valdossola (with Montecrestese and the highest bell tower of the area) to Valle Vigezzo, Valle Antigorio and the mountains in between and above (up to Basodino). On the other side you see the Bognanco Valley. The train line enters then a kind of gorge and will reach the village of Varzo: fine vews to Monte Cistella and Pizzo Dei. For the last 13 minutes, it will pass the helicoidal tunnel of Bertonio and the 20 kms long Simplon tunnel. Immediately ofter having left this tunnel, you will see Belap, Riederhorn, Sparrhorn and other mountains of the Aletsch area. 2 min later you will enter the railway station of Brig.

annhig

I will just re-iterate the advice that you need to factor in arrival and leaving days, and the time it takes to move from one place to another. you could use all of your 14 day maximum in just seeing what Bavaria and a small part of Switzerland have to offer - I would plump for a week or so in each and leave Italy for another time.

And I agree about staying put and doing day trips - where there are plenty of things to see, this is the most economical way to travel both in terms of time and money.

traveller1959

I have to pour more water into the wine by an aspect that is usually underrated by Americans planning itineraries for trips to Europe: weather.

You cannot count on good weather. If you make an itinerary with just one day in Zermatt and this very day is cloudy or even rainy then your trip is useless because you see nothing but fog.

Your original itinerary is simply not doable within 14 days, let alone 10 days.

I have a completely different suggestion:

Skip Switzerland altogether. Spend more time in Bavaria instead - Bavaria has also dramatic mountains with year-round snow and glaciers which can be reached by daytrips from München. Garmisch-Partenkirchen has the Zugspitze which is easily accessible by cable cars and trains and more to offer. Berchtesgaden has a most beautiful fjord-like Alpine lake and Salzburg is around the corner.

You can easily spend two weeks in this region and never get bored.

Or, if Italy is so important for you, take the train or a flight from München to Italy and rent a car there. My suggestion would be just seeing Venice for three days and nothing else.

Believe us, we are Europeans and we know our travelling times. In reality, you need much more time than in theory, regardless which means of transport you use.

annhig

all good points, Traveller. we have spent many such holidays and never ran out of things to do, so long as we chose our base well.

Dukey1

OK, so here is what I don't yet get about your proposed itinerary: some of the actual reasons you have picked the places you mention.

You started out with Munich which you say you want "for a few days" and to see "nearby" castles and abbeys. I am going to assume you are talking about the four Ludwig "builds" as opposed to the Residenze and the Nymphenburg which are both in the city of Munich itself?

Is that correct? If so, you need to factor in travel times as part of that "few days."

The interest in the "abbeys/monasteries that still brew" you mentioned: which ones would those be, exactly?

Zermatt? In September? (Sure, I've done it then, too) Why? To view the peak? Any other reasons?

Luzern. Great place buy why?

You mention Milan and Venice and Turin the Cinque Terre and again I am asking why?

And the reason I keep asking "why?" is because thus far it is, for myself anyway, impossible to help you pare this all down because it helps to know the reason you want to go to these places, what you want to see in them, etc.

Now, if my comments make you angry then ignore them and settle for being "lectured" about how Europeans "know their travel times" and the implication that you must not have any idea.

PalenQ

I assume folks have done some research about places they want to go or just that they have heard about them and that is their wish list without having to know 'why'.

<The interest in the "abbeys/monasteries that still brew" you mentioned: which ones would those be, exactly?>

that is why they are asking here - to know them - if they knew everything why would they ask - usually here you get excellent answers to such questions by those who have done them before.

PalenQ

My husband is an avid home brewer and wants to experience the beer culture not necessarily Oktoberfest but the abbey/monasteries that still brew>

Munich has several famous breweries -some have tours.

Beer gardens are fun - breweries have their own and there are many more- like the fun one in the Englischer Gardens in Munich - right under a huge Chinese pagoda- down-home German food and suds - plus ubiquitous radishes and pretzels.

quokka

>The interest in the "abbeys/monasteries that still brew"

Since you are starting from Munich, the first answer to this is Andechs, located almost on the outskirts of Munich: http://andechs.de/en/