SLifestyle

This summer, end of July we will be taking a week Rhine River trip, starting in Amsterdam and ending in Basil. We are 2 couples in our 50's who are looking to jump to another destination after Basil. I am the planner so here goes: Looking for 1-2 stops, no car rental and we will be toured out after the River cruise so I would like to go someplace that is not a huge tourist destination, not that hot and with all of the Art and Architecture we can see, a cooking and wine class would be new for us and relaxing, maybe a pool? We are more city people but open. We were thinking because of heat northern Italy or the French country side, but worry that would involve car rental. Also, maybe we should stay in an Italian City, Bologna or Milan and plan day trips?

PalenQ

Consider Burgundy and stays in Dijon and Beaune - take buses up and down the Alsace Wine Road - maybe stay in Colmar - nice city and do day trips -spend time in Strasbourg - lots of neat architecture.

For places to go by rail and European trains in general check www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com.

massimop

If you don't want heat, the Italian cities you are naming are ovens in July. Most Italians flee to the seaside or the mountains if they can. For the mountains, you need a car. For the seaside, you have a harder time finding towns with architectural interest & activity -- most people just go to relax and swim.

Since you are city people, two place that might thread your needle are Genova or Trieste. Although Genova can get some heat, its full of shade and breeze. It's extremely well connected by train to many points of interest heading along the coast toward France, heading the other way toward le Cinque Terre or even heading north a bit. There are small architecturally interesting towns of charm like Albenga, Chiavari or Ovada to enjoy, plus scenic villages. You can probably rustle up a cooking class/ Despite being a cruise ship port, Genova itself is not mobbed with tourists.

I've never been to Trieste in July, and it is possible it gets a lot of humidity. but it's a fascinating place, both for its past and its present, and you can plot of out lots of excursions by public transportation to mix it up. Food is out of this world, and its a good wine region too, and a cooking class would be fascinating. Cruise ships and tourist ferries visit the port, but the number of tourists in Trieste is low, low, low.

massimop

If the area of Genova appeals to you and you would very much like a poool, look in the town of Nervi, which is just 20 minutes outside of Genova proper by train & which as 2 art museums of genuine interest right in town. It has great access by train to other charming owns heading just a bit away from Genova, toward le Cinque Terre. Again, it is probably not too hard to find someone who can teach you how to make a real pesto & the other delicious food of the region.

There are luxury hotels in Trieste with swimming pools, and there might be more choices just outside the town (with public transportation options) in Opacina or Muggia (and certainly Grado if you are willing to go that far. It's between Trieste and Venice on the train line, down the road from marvelous Aquilieia).

massimop

for me this looks like fun

http://www.villaalbori.it/4/

PalenQ

someplace that is not a huge tourist destination, not that hot and with all of the Art and Architecture>

oxymoron - cities with lots of art and architecture are tourist meccas - forget that Quixotic quest IMO and yes settle on one of many touristed places.

Genoa and Bologna can still be very hot in summer but they may fit your bill as culinary centers with such classes no doubt and lots of places nearby easily reached by public transit. Bologna however can be very hot in July- Genoa less so -daily hi of 81F there in July.

PalenQ

nit-picking but Basil is used in cooking - Basel is the Swiss city.

WeisserTee

First, you may not leave the city until you learn to spell it correctly: Basel, not Basil. ;-)

Also, how much time do you have for this post-cruise trip? Three days, four? How far are you willing to travel? Basel's modest airport is well served by EasyJet, which means you can catch a short, direct flight to many cities in Europe -- just something to consider. Check-in etc there is a breeze compared to larger airports.

Beaune can get surprisingly hot in summer and few hotels there have air conditioning. We went last year for my husband's birthday week-end. We were lucky and it was only in the low to mid 80s. Three days later, it was over 100. We were staying in an attic apartment with one small fan, so were really glad to have missed that heat wave (FWIW, it stayed that hot, or nearly so, for about two weeks).

We love Milan and go there at least twice a year, but it can be hot and sticky in mid-summer -- we usually go between late September and January. Bologna would be a better choice, IMO.

I suggest Nancy in France. Pretty, fits your brief (although I don't know about the cooking class option). Or Strasbourg. Or, if you have only a few days and you want to visit an attractive small French city easily reachable by train from Basel (less than two hours away) that gets far fewer tourists, try Besancon. We also went there (by train) for a long week-end and found it utterly delightful. FYI, you go by TGV to a stop outside Besancon itself and hop on a short local train ride from the Besancon station.

This is where we stayed: http://hotel-lesauvage.com/fr/ Two thumbs up. Would also recommend here: http://www.besanconhoteldeparis.com/ (right in the heart of town and rooms have AC). We stopped in to look at it; pretty property and friendly staff. If/when we go back, we might stay here instead of Le Sauvage. (neither of these have pools)

If you want something non-urban, but still urbane, Megeve in the French Alps. Gorgeous, elegant, I'm sure a cooking class could be arranged. Similar to Gstaad in Switzerland, which also has beautiful hotels with pools (the Bellevue does offer cooking classes) and you could easily day trip to Gruyeres or Montreux. Getting to Megeve could be easier than you think: take a direct train to Geneva (or Geneva airport) and have a car service drive you to Megeve (example: Blacklane)

Many choices, I'm sure you'll find something you like!

PalenQ

Yes Beaune can get hot in July - avg high 79 F but average low 59 F so usually at night comfy but iof course could get hotter or be cooler but is a primo wine center with cooking classes if not acclaimed architecture: https://www.beaune-tourism.com/tasti...ooking-classes.

Beaune is a smallish town but a big small town with all amenities and though a tourist town in summer also a vibrant regional market town.

WeisserTee has given an impressive choice of neat towns that are not inundated by mass tourism.

HappyTrvlr

Due to the heat, why don't you stay in Switzerland and explore the Berber Oberland and/or Lucerne? I am also a city person but the breathtaking beauty of Switzerland would be my choice when you are so near.

massimop

Genova ia reliably 10 degrees cooler than Bologna or Milan in July, And it is really misleading to say, when it comes to Italy, that any destination with art & architecture is a "tourist destnation" given the context of what the OP is asking for. Compared with the Italian destinations people keep hammering on, insisting they are "must sees" for every "typical tourist", Bologna and Milan have very few tourists, and certainly have no tourist crowds.

Naples is a great example of an Italian city overstuffed with great art & architecture that few tourists see beyond the narrow area of its port or the archeological museum. No crowds. Ditto Palermo Genova and inland Torino. And if one is willing to count the art cities, which are smaller, you can stay in Arezzo, Trento Salerno -- actually, the OP prabably already knows this.

It's thoughtless to keep posting over and over that anyplace in Italy that has art, architecture, beauty & interest is filled with tourists. It's untrue, and it has been pointed out over and over again. People who don't travel much may not realize this, but those who know Italy do.

massimop

Just want to point out that Switzerland can get heat waves.

https://www.thelocal.ch/20170717/wea...summer-records.

If heat is of great concern to the travelers, then booking air conditioned accommodations is the best defense. That;s often more readily available in urban areas but also in places where locals expect it to be hot in July.

WeisserTee

Milan has "few tourists"? This is a joke, yes? Have you ever been around the Duomo in summer? Seen the lines to get inside?

I doubt those 2500+ hotels and B&Bs in Milan are filled only with business travelers and conventioneers.

massimop

This conversation is becoming too ridiculous for words.

Of corsee you are going to see tourists flocking to the Duomo and the Last Supper in Milan or the piazza Maggiore in Bolgona

Please let us give the OP some credit for intelligence. The planner is not looking to take their group to a place where there are not tourists at a handful of major monuments. They are trying to avoid like Venice Florence, etc.

I've given the OP options that fit their criteria. I'm not arguing with Fodorites anymore. It's not a joke. It's sad.

kja

If you like art and architecture, I would encourage you to consider spending some time in Basel itself. And maybe Zurich. And many places in Switzerland -- even some of its smaller cities and towns -- have surprisingly good (if sometimes small) collections of art -- look at Winterthur (which you can visit from Zurich) with its 4 or 5 small art museums, or Solothurn, or Fribourg....

SLifestyle

Thank you for the all of this, just home and can't wait to unravel these suggestions. Correct, no to the big three. We can travel for a week or a little bit more. Italy is always the most interesting to me but maybe we should look at Switzerland or France. What about the Dordogne? More later

PalenQ

Dordogne in mid-summer is heavily touristed.

ToujoursVoyager

Since you are in Bassel, I am with HappyTrvlr, it would be really unfortunate to bypass the Bernese Oberland area.

PalenQ

But Swiss Alps have none of OPs wishes- especially in going to someplace that is not a huge tourist destination. Some place in Switzerland may fulfill OP's wants but not Swiss Alps.

PalenQ

Switzerland does have vineyards and wineries galore however -especially along Rhone Valley and in Lake Geneva area. Trouble with Switzerland IMO is that everything is so so expensive.