gingergirl

Well, after many hours on the internet and listening to your recommendations, I've come up with this itinerary. We will be traveling July/August with a family of four (sons are 21 and 16. Here goes:

Days 1-4 LONDON (Hotel Montana)Sightseeing the city of London and possibly one side trip to Stratford-Upon-Avon/Cotswold.

Day 4 - Afternoon trip on the Eurostar to Paris--evening walk around Paris

Days 5-7 PARIS (Staying with friends)Sightseeing the city of Paris with possibly one side trip to either Versailles,Fountainebleau, Chartres or Chenonceaux--any suggestions?

Day 7 - Train from Paris to Nice
(Is it possible for us to get off the train at Avignon and tour around a bit and then reboard to Nice?)

Days 8-10 - NICE (Citadines Nice Ave Des Fleurs Apart'hotel)
Day 8 - Sightsee St. Paul de Vence,
Grasse, Vence (Evening: Nice)
Day 9 - Sightsee Nice and Monaco

Day 10 - Travel from Nice through Geneva to Montruex

Days 11-12 MONTRUEX (Hotel Masson)
Day 11 - Rent bicycles - Sightsee
around Vevey and/or Villeneuve
Day 12 - Tour Chillon Castle (AM)

Day 12 - Travel by Golden Pass Train to Interlaken (here again, can we get off train and walk around at Chateau-d'Oex or Gstaad and reboard?)(No hotel yet)

--If you think the above is "fuzzy" it really gets questionable from here--

Day 13 - INTERLAKEN -All-day hiking trip around the Grindalwald, Murren, Lauterbrunnen Valley areas

Day 14 - Scenic Train Travel day:
Interlaken - Brig to board the Galcier Express to Chur - Innsbruck, Austria (no hotel yet)

Day 15 - AM tour Innsbruck?
Noon - train to Salzburg?
Evening - sightsee Salzburg

Day 16- Tour Salzburg (AM)
Train to Zurich

Day 17 - Fly home from Zurich


I feel like Days 1-14 will be a little fast-paced, but attainable. I really need advice on the Austria part. (We've been to the Lucerne area before)...I'd really like to get a taste of Austria...I think we can at least do Innsbruck, but is Salzburg a thing we can fit in, or is it too much time on the train to be beneficial?

Also, I need your advice on train travel...can you get off and reboard with your ticket..even if you have reservations, etc? How does that work?

I'm open to all comments (don't hurt me too bad on the fast-paced schedule...I know it is) and I also know it's the busiest time of the year. It's our only family time..

What have I overlooked????
THANKS!
gingergirl

kevin_widrow

One suggestion: the train trip from Paris to Nice risks being on the long side. Check into easyjet or even arifrance for a shuttle flight instead. May save you money and will definately save you a lot of time.

As for getting off at avignon and visiting the city - you'd need to check with SNCF, but doing that will make a long day of train travel into a really long day of train travel....

Save Avignon and the rest of inland Provence for another time, maybe.

Bon voyage,
Kevin

swandav2000

Hi gingergirl,

Regarding getting off the train between Montreux & Interlaken -- yes you can, but it's doubtful you'll re-board the "Golden Pass." There are lots of trains that run over those rails, but not all of them have the panoramic windows that make up the "GP." It's not a big deal, in my opinion; you just have to stretch your neck a bit more to get the great views!

Also note, if you have reservations, you can of course get off the train, but the next train won't be holding those same seats . . . you may have to hunt for seats in high season.

Have a great time!

s

gingergirl

Great suggestions! Thanks! On my Day 14--is that the best way to get from Interlaken to Innsbruck? It sounds like the most scenic, but it's definitely long. The best I can tell,Interlaken to Brig and then the Glacier Express to Chur is about 6 hours...then to Scuol Tarasp, take bus to Landeck, then on to Innsbruck which all that adds up to another 5 hours at least--about a 12 hour trip. Am I missing something here? Is there an easier/faster way to travel from Chur to Innsbruck? It looks like Interlaken-Zurich-Innsbruck would take a total of 6 hours. So, is the Glacier Express worth the extra time? If it's worth, I don't mind, but....
Any suggestions? Thanks so much! gingergirl

Nidwaldner_Chris

My opinion is that you should cut Innsbruck entirely from your itinerary and spend the extra time in Switzerland instead. I believe you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you give yourself only 1-day to see the Jungfrau region. With unpredictable weather there is a good chance you won't see anything. You could easily spend the extra time in Jungfrau, Zermatt, and Luzern. Also, agree that you look into flying from Paris to Nice and then Nice to Geneva on Easyjet instead of train.

jmw44

I can hardly believe I'm writing this, but I think you might have to choose between Montreux and Salzburg. I'm trying to put myself in the mindset of someone who has always wanted to see the Jungfrau and always wanted to visit the Sound of Music gorgeous city of Salzburg. And I think I'd see if there's a way to skip Innsbruck, because if you want a taste of Austria and only have a day or so, Salzburg is the town.

It seems to me that this is a grand tour sort of itinerary. If I'm wrong, then drop London. If I'm not, something still has to go (IMO), and I think, from the point of view of contrasts etc., Montreux might be the one to omit. That will give you another day in the Oberland and another one in Austria (I think). Having said this, Lac Leman is one of my favorite places on earth. I'm trying to be objective. Good luck. J.

gingergirl

Thanks again for the suggestions. Yes, this is a grand tour of sorts. I do know it's packed. But, you have expressed some good thoughts. What if I dropped Innsbruck entirely and went directly from Oberland/Interlaken to Salzburg? What's the best way to get there?

Montreux seems so wonderful, so I'm thinking about that one...tough decision!

Keep the thoughts coming!
gingergirl

jmw44

I don't blame you a bit for wanting to keep Montreux in the itinerary. Have you thought of staying in Speiz instead of Interlaken? -- It's a beautiful little town on Thunersee with excellent rail connections -- still convenient for your day in the mountains. According to sbb.ch there's a train that leaves Spiez daily at 11-ish and gets to Salzburg in a bit under 8:30 hours with only one change in Zurich. There's a faster one (8:05 I think), but there are two changes and the one in Zurich is less than ten minutes. Do you carry a lot of luggage? Anyway, to me, that's a reasonable alternative to the glamorous scenic route you described, and it does have its share of pretty countryside. The route, once you get into Austria, is through the Tyrol.

I'm playing with your jam-packed wish list because it contains so many great places, but I've got to say that it exhausts me just reading it. You people must have extraordinary stamina and energy. Pas moi. When I was young, my friends and I traveled like that, and we took several night trains to stretch our days. In other words, we didn't visit the cities in the order one would expect, but instead sort of zigzagged to make the night trains practical. Maybe you could entertain rearranging your itinerary somewhat if that interests you. Of course, it means that you'll be sleeping past a lot of scenery. Just a thought. J.

gingergirl

Thanks,jmw44, for the train schedule information..sounds great. I think I will have to forego Montreux which will give me an extra night in the Interlaken area and an extra night in Salzburg. That's why all you guys/girls out there help out so much! I chose to take the day train trips to add to the "taste" of each countryside scenery. Spiez was mentioned as a base--any suggestions on a place to stay (3* price range)...

Also, anyone have ideas/suggestions about Bonigen outside of Interlaken as a base? Thanks for your input!
Gingergirl

brookwood

I understand where you are coming from. Time is relatively short and the idea is to see as much as possible.
But, you are spread thin. Don't be surprised if some days are train ride blurs and you don't recall what you did that day or why you did it.

I never have figured out why many people think the way to see Europe is to see a lot of places superficially.

Two general comments about this travel plan: (1) Too little time for the Swiss Alps around Mürren and Wengen. (I have spent days there several times.) (2) Salzburg is overrated. Other than the Old Town, which does have some quaint shops for the tourist trade, and the fortress on the hill, Salzburg is just another thriving, industrialized middle sized Austrian city full of hustle and bustle.

The local Salzburger could care less about the Sound of Music, except it jolts American lose from their money which benefits the local economy. I took one of the tours and thought it an awful ripoff.
(That dance scene between Lisrl and the Nazi postboy took place in a gazebo, which was at the time a dilapidated, paint-peeling eyesore hidden somewhere on the grounds of Schloss Heilbrunn. Some of the cloisters used in the movie are private property and you are not allowed in.)
Is there any particular reason for so much time in Nice and so little time in the Alps, London and Paris? Granted all of these are relative to the total time allocation, but London and/or Paris are worth more time than Nice I would think.

In fact, I would cut out that leg of the trip and redistribute the time in Switzerland, London and Paris.
But that is my view. I am sure yours is different.

mikemo

I concurr with all of the recommendations, but you may want to rent a car in Interlaken, stay in Beatenberg on the mt. opposite the grand peaks and drive to your sites in Grindelwald and Lauterbrunnen.
Check John Hermann's 3rd ed of Motorcycle Journey through the Alps.
M

jmw44

If you do decide to exchange Montreux for an extra night in the Oberland and one in Salzburg, perhaps you'll have time to visit Halstatt. It's a magnificently situated little lake town, though I'm not sure how far it is from Salzburg. I do agree with the above poster that what is of interest in Salzburg is the old city and the fortress. But that part is indeed beautiful. You won't need to fall for S of M tours in order to feel the magic of the town. And the schnitzels, yum. J.

gingergirl

Great suggestions..the main reason for the Nice area is for my sons--they both seem to really go there--of course, it may be the rumors of the topless beaches they have heard about

I'll research more on Salzburg and Innsbruck, but "Mom" has already been to London, Paris and Lucerne...and I've always wanted to go to Austria, so I wanted to stick a little something in there for me....the rest of my family may be whining by the time we get there though. jmw44, Halstatt sounds like something I will research as well. Thanks for input! Any more ideas for me out there?
gingergirl

KathyNZ

Thanks Brookwood, at last someone who shares my thoughts on Salzburg. Once again, I thought it over commercialised and a big tourist rip off riding on a movie that was made nearly fifty years ago. The ticky tacky tourist shops in the old quarter all looked the same after one sweep through and I hitailed it to the other side of the town where it was more localised and also much cheaper re cafes etc.
I was happy to return to Innsbruck for two weeks after spending one day in Salzburg.
Seems to me that most tourists only skim the surface of downtown Innsbruck and have no idea what else the Tirol has to offer.

jmw44

It's been my experience that you can ignore tourist traps and tacky shops if you try. If you are still thinking Salzburg, you might consider exploring the old town in the early morning and evening (this has worked for us in other tourist-trampled places like Rothenburg ObT), and getting out of town during the day--say to Halstatt--which attracts a good many daytrippers itself. I have no idea what the fortress hours are in Salzburg, but I'd imagine that the views would be lovely at sunset.

On the other hand, if you're beginning to think Innsbruck, well it is about two hours closer to the Oberland, and it has (or had, it's been a long time) one of my favorite folk art museums, and it is nestled in the mountains of the Tirol. Maybe you could compromise by stopping there and just doing a quick daytrip to Salzburg? Of course, in that case you'd be in Salzburg with the rest of the daytrippers. Oh well, IMO. J.

ira

Hi gg,

Have you checked the train schedules for this expedition?

See http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en

The night train from Nice to Montreux requires that you change trains 3 times, one of with is at 04:50.

jmw44

Hi Ira. gg wasn't thinking nighttrains. That was me having a flashback to my younger days, when, believe it or not, we did nighttrips like that. Those were the Europe on $5 a Day days. Are you old enough to remember them? J.

guillaum

Out of 3 days in Paris, it seems to me that a side trip to Chenonceaux is going to be too far, Chartres is not really close and although there is the cathedral, you may prefer to spend time at Notre Dame de Paris. Therefore, if you want a side trip, this leaves you with Fontainebleau or Versailles.

Versailles is definitely better than Fontainebleau ! I am from Versailles so my opinion may be biaised ! But frankly I believe that objectively you'd better go to Versailles than Fontainebleau...

Versailles is just 30mn from Paris by train or car, so it is quite easy to organise a day there.

If you go to Versailles and have enough time, maybe you can go to the Grand Trianon - although the inside is not particularly interesting (compared to the main palace) the outside gardens in the spring or the summer can be very pretty and the building itself (pink marble) is very nice, so this is often where the locals go for a walk - only trouble, it takes a bit of time to go down there from the main palace... Check on the internet for pictures !

As queues can be extremely long to visit the palace, you may want to buy your ticket in advance, which will save you some time. You can do that on the internet at www.chateauversailles.fr, but the site is in French only (!!) and you may need the help of your friends.

Now you may also want to give up you side trip as three days in Paris is not so much !...

gingergirl

Good points on Salzburg (and also the side trips to Paris). Okay---

Question: If you had 2 full days to spend in Innsbruck, what would YOUR itinerary look like?
OR--
If you had 2 full days to spend in Salzburg, what would YOUR itinerary look like?
Maybe this might help me to decide between the two areas...any thoughts?
I'm still researching Spiez and Halstatt.
Any comments?

jmw44

I suppose: Innsbruck--one day exploring the old town and the folk art museum and one daytrip to Salzburg. Salzburg--one day exploring the old town and the fortress above and one daytrip to Halstatt. J.