London/Daytrip Itinerary, late December (London/Wales/Cantebury/Stonehenge)

Ha, some typos. My apologies!

You sound as though you've done your research, but I wanted to ask just in case - is there a reason you've chosen the things on your list instead of, for example, the British Museum? I just ask because the Keats House and Highgate Cemetery aren't typical itinerary items for first-timers, but if you have specific reasons for seeing them people might be able to make other suggestions that would also interest you.

I haven't stayed at that particular hotel, but the area is fine (any touristy part of London is fine from a safety perspective, assuming you use common sense). It's about a half mile walk, or perhaps a bit more, down the Strand to Trafalgar Square, and you could walk to Covent Garden as well, so those are definite pluses.

If Keats House and Highgate Cemetery both are musts, I would group those together if at all possible. That area isn't terribly far out of central London but it's still somewhat of a hike, so it makes sense to just make the trip once.

What is the easiest way, internet excepting, to find out what time the earliest train leaves London for our destinations?
Honestly, the easiest way IS the internet - check www.nationalrail.co.uk for train times and stations before you leave. The schedules don't change very often, and the stations definitely won't.

Anyone know what the dress code is for St. Pauls?
There isn't one, really. I attended a Sunday night service there in casual jeans. You can choose to dress up more but as long as you're decent you'll be fine. Are you hoping to see the rest of St Paul's as well? During the service you'll see the main worship area as you sit, but not the dome, the crypt, etc.

Also we are not planning on using much public transportation because a) its expensive and b) many people say that it is a better way to see the city just to walk.
You certainly won't be able to walk to Hampstead, for example, so you'll end up using public transport at least sometimes during your visit. London is a very walkable city, but the tube and buses are very easy to use and I can't imagine taking a trip there without using them at least once a day (I walk a LOT when I'm there, but still use public transit frequently). If nothing else, you'll be very, very tired of walking after a couple of days. A 7-day travelcard on an Oyster is about £25 for zones 1 & 2, which is a chunk of change but worth every penny. It covers both tube and buses (don't forget about the buses!). If you have children with you they may be able to get a discounted rate.

I think you need to recount your days. If Day 1 is the 17th, Day 9 has to be the 25th, not 24th.

I think the Chepstow/Tintern day out is going to be a difficult day, especially given you are travelling on the shortest days of the year. You can get to Chepstow early enough (08:26) if you catch the 05:36 out of London Paddington, but the buses to Tintern only run every 2 hours. Taxi for that part would be a good option. I doubt you would have time to do the 6 mile walk.

I can't offer much help but I think trying for two "attractions" a day in London is fine. Definitely go to Tower of London early so that you're there before they open the gates. This gives you a bit of time to take pictures of the Tower Bridge and outsides of the tower complex and to get in line. Once you're in, head right for the Jewel house. There's no line first thing but an hour or so later and the line gets past the outside door. Once you've had your look at the pretty glitteries, go join the yeoman's tour. It's free and excellent. You may want to have a few coins as a tip, but not everybody does. After the tour, poke around a bit on your own for awhile. Have a late lunch on the way to your next attraction. I visited the Tower in the morning, had lunch on the way to St Paul's for the afternoon until closing time. I thought I had plenty of time, but to each their own.

You'd be very close on time now, but you *might* be able to still get tickets for the Ceremony of the Keys. You have to send international return postage which can be a pain in the behind to get, but they send the tickets for free if they have space. They need two or three evenings you could attend. The ceremony is at 9:30 and is over by a few minutes after 10, but it's really neat I think. They've performed this ceremony to lock up the tower every night for over 700 years. It's cutting it close on return time so if you're interested do it quickly. Do a google search for their website and contact information. I just got my ticket to go again in December and it took about 1-2 weeks to get it back.

When you go to Westminster Abbey take the tour, you get good information and you get into more areas than you would normally. I didn't see St Pauls on your list other than for a 4:00 service. I would highly suggest spending time in there as well. Again, the tour is great. If you take the supertour you can get into the room with the spiral staircase and into a few more areas that are normally off limits.

For train times, look them up online ahead of time and print out schedules would be my suggestion.

Have fun!

Thanks for the tips! My husband and I met during college; we were English majors, went on to pursue graduate work in English together, and took (among many courses) Brit Romanticism together-- thus, the trip to Highgate/St. Michael's, to Keats House, to the British Museum (somehow I stupidly left this off our "London Day" plans as detailed, but it is A MUST--I think I am getting all the museums confused because they all have such generic names-- "British Library," "British Museum," "National Gallery," haha...) and also to Tintern Abbey. Any other "literary" ideas are welcome (you'll notice we're skipping most Shakespeare related things because they just seem so very touristy and mostly recreations).

I am not sure what our plan is for St. Paul's. We wanted to minimize the amount of "touring" we did and thought that the Christmas service might be better than a normal tour. But I'd like to see the view! I would skip out on the tour of Westminster, and do the St. Paul's tour instead, but we did want to see Poet's Corner. Is the rest of the tour of St.Paul's "worth it"? If I recall the price is not too high, but we are starting to max out our touring budget since we're going to many other places.

The information about Keats/Hampstead is absolutely essential, thanks so much for that. I am frankly daunted by London's size and have no idea how to interpret maps when it comes to scale....this is very helpful!

Our hotel's internet is prohibitively expensive (25 pounds daily), but maybe we can find somewhere else to check the train times....I will have my laptop. Perhaps concierge at the hotel can assist? Is the UK's idea of concierge the same as in the US? In the US you can basically make the concierge do anything for you!

Tintern abbey is 4 miles from Chepstow. You can get the #69 Chepstow-Monmouth bus to near it.
Since it doesn't open until 9.30 Monday to Saturday, and 11 am on Sunday you don't need the first train out, which leaves at 05.30 and gets in at 0835. A slightly later one (06.45 or 07.15 or even later) would work just as well.

An idea for public transit is to get an Oyster card for each of you and put a bit of money on it to use as Pay As You Go (PAYG). That way if you don't use it much, you can get your money back when you leave. I'm pretty sure you can turn it in at your last station before you leave for a refund.

It works on buses and tubes, I have no idea what rails accept it.

Ha, whoops! Added an additional day in there. BOY I WISH! Ron, are you familiar with Chepstow? Unfortunately that admittedly ambitious day is the thing we're most excited about so any information would be more than welcome. As far as calling a cab goes-- the national rail site said there isn't a cab line at the station so I guess we'd need to call one? Is that the sort of thing I should do while we're in London-- advance plan for a cab to pick us up? Or should we just do it when we get to Wales? We won't have cell phones (eh, we will but are loathe to use them). We could also go to the Chepstow tourist office and maybe they can help us out getting a cab.

hetismij, any other info about Chepstow is **more than appreciated.** In fact I am in dire need of it! I've heard varying thing about the reliability of the buses but I am not above walking if I can't find any other way to get there!! If we get done at Tintern early we might try to go to the Castle as well. But the CADW site says the "exhibition" is closed due to repairs. I am hoping/assuming that means that the exhibit of castle interiors is closed but that the grounds are still open.


Are train schedule for national rail reliable enough that it would be reasonable enough to plan a rail itinerary in advance? Printing out timetables sounds like a good idea.

I am frankly daunted by London's size and have no idea how to interpret maps when it comes to scale....this is very helpful!
Google Maps is your friend. If you "Get Directions" using Google, you can choose a "Walking" option. I plugged in St Paul's and Westminster just for kicks, and it gives you a choice of routes, all of which take about an hour.

Central London is pretty compact, but it would take a lot to walk EVERYWHERE. That's one reason I love using the buses; sometimes it doesn't make a lot of sense to use the Tube, but a bus may take you right where you need to be. You can find Tube and bus maps at www.tfl.gov.uk.

St Paul's does cost a bit to get in (eight or ten pounds, maybe?). It's very different from Westminster Abbey, though, and I would really recommend seeing both if you can. If you must choose one, though, I'd stick with Westminster, but do take a tour to get the most out of it. The Abbey has the verger tours, or London Walks have tours for £7. I haven't taken their Abbey tour but the others I've taken have all been excellent (walks.com).

Maybe I wasn't clear about the train schedules - I meant to check the National Rail site BEFORE you leave to at least get an idea of regular times and schedules. It's possible that you'll run into road works or other schedule changes, but it's not terribly likely. And it's very unlikely that a train normally scheduled to leave from one station will all of a sudden leave from another - it just doesn't work that way. So if you already have a flexipass, just get to your station early enough to make sure the train you want is still running on time.

The British Library is really great - I think you English majors will love it. It's great for history majors and any other major too, though! Charles Dickens had a house somewhere in London (I'm blanking on details), if that interests you.

The exhibition is only temporarily closed; it may well be open when you visit. You will still be able to view the rest of the castle. www.castlewales.com is an excellent website if you haven't already visited it. They have beautiful pictures as well as a ton of historical information on the castles of Wales.

As jent has already mentioned, look at the rail site prior to leaving and just make notes (I wouldn't necessarily bother with actually printing them out) on the times/schedules you are interested in.

I can't be much help on Chepstow. On my visit to England in October, I had planned a day trip from Bristol to Chepstow and Tintern, but recovery from the overnight flight caused me to have to scrub Tintern from the plan. I did visit Chepstow castle, which I found quite interesting - started in 1085, reputed first stone castle in Britain. I don't remember any exhibition, so maybe it was closed then too, but we had free access to most of the castle. It took about an hour to visit. If you do visit, try to approach from the park that runs along side the castle - very impressive view. I travelled by bus from Bristol, so never saw the train station.

With your interest in English literature, too bad the T.S. Eliot exhibition at the British Library will have closed. It is about Eliot as a publisher and his influence on Joyce, Auden, Hughes, Moore. The 19th century photography exhibition is excellent and will still be on, but perhaps not your thing.

Any other "literary" ideas are welcome (you'll notice we're skipping most Shakespeare related things because they just seem so very touristy and mostly recreations). >>>>

If you're in Borough Market (and yes it runs all year round) then there's a couple of things you might want to think about. Firstly Southwark Cathedral is just by the market and it's where Billy Shakespeare's brother is buried. Then you're in Borough High St. Head away from the river and you'll soon come across The George - an old pub with a courtyard. That courtyard is where a lot of Shakespeare's plays were first performed. If you keep on going, you will walk past John Harvard's house (it's a solicitors now) - that's John Harvard as in the Yankee university. A bit further on is Tabard St (on the other side of the road). That is where the Tabard Inn was, where the pilgrims set out in the Canterbury Tales.

The Globe is on the river nearby.

If it's literary things you want to see don't get the British Museum and British Library muddled. They are part of the same collection but are in two sites some distance apart (The library is on the Euston Rd - and bloody good it is too.)

If you are planning St Pauls for Xmas Eve service, please know that is is very popular and the line forms early and gets very long. Two years ago we arrived about 45 minutes before the service and there was no way we could expect to get in. Consider attending a service at one of London's other beautiful more "local" churches.

Another time (not that Christmas) we stayed at that Swisshotel Howard. We enjoyed it a lot. It is a handy location for sightseeing but it is more of a business area and so restaurants may require a bit more exploring. An idea near there for restaurants is the area just behind the Embankment tube stop just to the West from the hotel. There are streets that go up from there towards Charing Cross station that have a number of restaurants that at least appeared appealing and those streets wouldn't otherwise be obvious to tourists even though it is also right near near Trafalgar Square and National Gallery.

Here's a couple of ideas for churches other than St. Pauls. You can check their websites as it gets closer to the holiday for specific service times. Or you could phone while you are in London.

http://www.templechurch.com/FindUs/default.html

http://cathedral.southwark.anglican.org/visit/how-to-find-us

Tintern from Chepstow: If you miss the bus, the Chepstow Tourist Information Centre, just below the castle, will call you a taxi. When we were there in April we missed the bus and asked there whether there was a taxi stand in town. They insisted on called a taxi for us. Very nice people. Can't remember the exact fare, but I believe it was less than ₤10.

The castle is well worth a visit. If you click on my name you can find the trip report, which has a few tips for London, too.

<Charles Dickens had a house somewhere in London (I'm blanking on details), if that interests you.>

It's actually not far from the British Museum and is worth a look for literary buffs. I think I spent about an hour there, max.

There are regular trains on three routes from London to Canterbury. One route goes from Charing Cross, Waterloo East and London Bridge, runes generally twice an hour and takes 1 hour 45 minutes. The trains from Victoria are also twice an hour and take about 1 hour 35 minutes. The fastest trains leave from St Pancras, use the Channel Tunnel route via Ashford and take just under an hour. They run at hourly intervals from the beginning of December, when the timetable has radical changes.

Tintern Abbey is not easy to get to from London by train. You have to change at Newport and then go back on yourself, with the journey taking 2 hr 40 minutes. Hetismij is right about you not needing the first train. Chepstow Station is right next to a big Tesco supermarket, and you may find a taxi there. If not, you will probably have to walk into the town.

Is there a particular reason for wanting to go to Tintern? It's an attractive place on a summer's day, but you have chosen the worst time of year. Chepstow Castle is worth seeing, but both the castle and the abbey are ruins, so there is little shelter. Check the Cadw website (www.cadw.wales.gov.uk) for opening hours.

Charles Dickens had a house somewhere in London (I'm blanking on details), if that interests you.>

I'm pretty sure it's near the Spectators old office in Doughty Street.

I normally wouldn't even try to talk someone out of going to Chepstow/Tintern. A neat 'clambering' castle and a just lovely/serene abbey ruin.

But in late December - and involving about 6.5 hours of travel time - and not having any idea of the weather. I'm not a wimp weather-wise, and really the right clothing makes most any day tolerable. But the idea of tramping around Chepstow and Tintern in a driving rain or sloppy snow really doesn't appeal.

Just to make it clear, go into your home computer about a week or so before your trip. Go into "National Rail" then complete the journey planner for details. I just did a mock plan and it shows a First Great Western leaving Paddington station at 8:15 to Newport, arriving 10:04. Then the 10:27 Arriva Train Wales to Cheaptow at 10:49. Then I type up a single page of details for each trip and add different return times and information. For using the tube I go into one of the Tupe Planner sites and do the same.

If you are going to Wales by train as well as Salisbury and Canterbury then consider a BritRail Pass as this will allow you to hop any train anytime - no 9:30am weekday Off-Peak departure restrictions, etc. And currently for travel thru the end of Feb there is the BritRail Off-Peak special where passes are discounted about 20% - if you can marshall your train travels into a consecutive-day pass all the better as these are cheaper per day than the flexipasses, good for a set number of days within a 2-month period.
But like rogerk says go to nationalrail.co.uk and you will see all the various fares - and inevitably restrictions for he non-fully flexible fares and then do a price comparision. You may find that if you want fully flexible travel - hop on any train coming back from Wales for instance and not some train-specific one you book in advance to get a deep discount - the pass may be great. But generally if you want to go the online discounted (and limited in numbers so book early for the cheapest fares) then that for many is the most economical way if not the most convenient - check on how early you can leave London for example to go to Wales. For loads on British train travel these sites have tons of info: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com;

If you are going to Wales by train as well as Salisbury and Canterbury then consider a BritRail Pass as this will allow you to hop any train anytime - no 9:30am weekday Off-Peak departure restrictions, etc. And currently for travel thru the end of Feb there is the BritRail Off-Peak special where passes are discounted about 20% - if you can marshall your train travels into a consecutive-day pass all the better as these are cheaper per day than the flexipasses, good for a set number of days within a 2-month period.
But like rogerk says go to nationalrail.co.uk and you will see all the various fares - and inevitably restrictions for he non-fully flexible fares and then do a price comparision. You may find that if you want fully flexible travel - hop on any train coming back from Wales for instance and not some train-specific one you book in advance to get a deep discount - the pass may be great. But generally if you want to go the online discounted (and limited in numbers so book early for the cheapest fares) then that for many is the most economical way if not the most convenient - check on how early you can leave London for example to go to Wales. For loads on British train travel these sites have tons of info: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com; www.budgeteuropetravel.com/id11.html - passes are not sold at British stations though they are at the BTA British Travel Authority office in central London if you are not sure you need one till you actually decide to go to Wales or not - if you are not going to Wales and back then eschew any thoughts of the pass for your plans.

Thanks; I think we will make our itineraries ahead of time as advised-- that's a great idea!

Still pretty set on going to Wales despite all advice that would lead me otherwise, perhaps leading to my own downfall...haha! If I had any other plans to visit the UK any later I would probably put it off, but this may be our only opportunity. My husband has already "claimed" Spain for the next trip and we've got a load of law school debt to dig in after that. So hopefully it'll work out, weather permitting. The itinerary I posted above is very flexible; my hope is that if we wake up one day and it seems clear, we'll just choose that day to go if we can. Of course it will be hard to see if it is "clear" when it'll be dark outside when our train departs! Since the rest of our trip is fairly pedestrian (staying at a nice hotel, going to museums and on guided tours) I don't mind too much if we have one really long day--feels a bit more like real travel! I imagine that if all our days are a complete mess it won't be too much trouble to just replace that day with another London day, since we have a railpass and so won't be buying any point-to-point tickets. When travelling in Japan I took an overnight train up north, no sleeping car! Got there at about 5:30 AM with nothing to do until 11:00 that day, ended up snoozing in a park and trying to work the kinks out of my neck So hopefully traipzing around London will be easier than that! I think being on trains will be a real "treat" for hubby, who hasn't done anything like that before, having never been out of USA much unless you count Niagra Falls!

I know the weather will be terrible, but how terrible are we talkin'? We did purchase some insulated rain jackets and rain pants, waterproof boots as well, but of course I am holding out for a nice day at least once...

The tour at Westminster is 4pounds each and the supertour at St Pauls is 3pounds each (the audio guide is 4pounds). The supertour is at limited times, see their website for those times. I highly recommend both tours. You can get into areas that you can't on your own and the history and stories the tour leaders give you is simply fascinating.

Don't think of the weather as being terrible... think of it as not being hot. It's all in how you look at it. The averages I've seen have been in the 40's, so not exactly cold depending on what you're used to. Dress in layers... that way you can ditch layers inside and as the weather changes throughout the day.

I know the weather will be terrible, but how terrible are we talkin'?

NO telling. It's predictably unpredictable. Could be chilly and rainy; could be cloudy; could be sunny and decently warm (though cloudy/rainy is somewhat more likely). Just bring layers, rain gear and good shoes so you'll be prepared for anything. I'd also take lightweight scarves and gloves. (By "waterproof boots" do you mean the plastic galoshes, or waterproofed hiking boots or similar? I can't imagine the plasticy sort being pleasant to walk in for days. You really want waterproof GOOD shoes that feel good to walk in, and break them in now!!! Very important.)

They do sell newspapers for you to check the weather the day before. Actually if you're walking around town you'll have all kinds of free papers shoved at you on weekday afternoons. I wouldn't go to those for in-depth reporting, but you'll at least get an idea of "cold and rainy tomorrow" vs. "warm and sunny."

Have some layers. Rain coat and boots good idea. Add a fleece or wool sweater, tshirt, scarf, gloves, fleece hat and you are ready for London in December. It won't necessarily be too cold -- not much colder than Atlanta -- but it will be damp and likely windy.

I got a good pair of coleman hiking boots (from the 80s when coleman was king! Thank goodness my dad is compelled to keep shoes from a zillion year ago) and some waterproof faux shearling boots with fake fur liner (and fringe). Not that anyone wants to know this but I am insanely excited about these shoes.

I certainly hope the newspapers in London are more accurate than the ones here, haha! This week we have a tropical storm-- where did that come from? I did look up the averages of temperatures, plus sunup and sundown for our week, but when it comes to weather I am never very lucky

How comfortable are your coleman hiking boots from the 80's??? How hot are your shearling boots? Can you walk in them all day, and without your feet getting too uncomfortably hot? If not, go get something else and get them broken in. I love my Merrel hiking shoes... they're very similar to tennis shoes but they're gore tex lined so they're water proof.

Iowa_Redhead, that's exactly what I was thinking!

cpilgrim, you really need shoes with good soles, heels and arch support. After all, you are planning to walk a lot (though I hope we've convinced you to use public transport occasionally!). If the shoes you have now are in good condition and are truly good walking shoes, awesome. If not, as Iowa_Redhead said, go get yourself some good ones. They'll cost money, but they'll last you awhile and it is worth EVERY penny. All these plans you have will be for nothing if you've got blisters all over after one or two days! (I love Merrells too; I've had some good Keens and Clarks as well. And don't forget socks!)

Just got back from England yesterday and spent the last 3 days in London. Had an excellent time once again. If I may suggest : London public transit is excellent for getting about but remember to allow yourself time, especially if changes are required to get to you major train stations. Some large stations need attention to get about and the escalators are long and deep which take time.
If you are travelling on a weekend, remember to check for closures due to track improvements as these can really bugger your plans, especially if you are pressed for time and want to get a lot in. An oystercard is very convenient.
If your accommodation is close to the sites/attractions you want to visit, you'll save a lot of time and frustration. Which is another way of saying to look for interesting places in your area to visit that you can get to easily. London is full of them if you reasearch it.
I was living 1 street away from Earls Court Stn. (Cromwell Road) which gave me easy access to all the free museums 2 stops away at South Kensington (highly recommended), and the Leicester Sq/Covent Garden/Picadilly Circus area. No end of things to do and see just in that small area, for example, and also right on the Picadilly line that took me to Heathrow T5 when the time came.

Weather in Nov was great (10C - 15C) generally, needing only a tee shirt and light fleece personally. London is not as cold in December as N. America, if thats what you're comparing it to.

I visited Tintern Abbey a few years ago and while I enjoyed it, found 2 hours enough to see all I wanted, and enjoy a cream tea. (We stopped there as part of a trip to the Brecon Beacons in Wales.) It may take you a whole day to get there, see just that and back. It is a very nice ruin.

London at Christmas time is very nice. Try to check out the department store displays and catch a Christmas show. Have a great time.

M.

cpilgrim -- We love Tintern Abbey! We've been there in the early Spring and again Mid Autumn. We were bundled up pretty well both times. One day was clear and crisp and the other day was drizzly and gray -- but both days were amazing. I can't be of any help with the transportation because we drove ourselves, I just wanted to be supportive. It will probably be a long cold day, but I think you will think it's worth it! And look on the bright side -- the worse the weather the more likely you'll have the place to yourselves.

I'm thinking the shoes will be ok. I'm a pretty good walker, as I do a little running/crosstraining during the week most days and I also have just recently graduated from graduate school, where I had to walk all around campus most days. I walked Japan for two weeks (WITH backpack the whole time...man, I've since learned to love the concept of daytripping) in a paid of good grey Adidas, wish I still had those! I've since learned that it is gauche to wear sneakers while travelling to Europe, thus the hiking boots. Hope green and brown boots are acceptable in posh London environments!

BKP, I do appreciate the support-- even if it goes poorly I think I would regret if if we did not try to visit! Glad to know that even in drizzly weather, it is still worthwhile! Did you stay in Tintern long other than to visit the Abbey? I've heard there's a really good pub nearby and thought we might try it out if we have the chance (maybe called the Cherry Tree Inn?).

"I've since learned that it is gauche to wear sneakers while travelling to Europe, "

Oh my goodness! And who told you that?? Just plain silly. Not a soul anywhere will carry one bit what you have on your feet . . . . .

Given your interests, I second the definite recommendation to add a visit to the British Library, one of my favorites.

cpilgrim -- we have a 4 year old son so we don't usually get to linger over long meals very often. We usually pack picnics. The couple of times that we visited Tintern Abbey we also saw Raglan Castle so we didn't spend much time in Tintern, outside of the Abbey. A quick search pulled up this site and it mentions the Cherry Tree Inn. It also mentions the little pub right across from the abbey -- but the only thing it has to say about it is that it is normally found first by tourists!

http://www.tintern.org.uk/pubs.htm

Since Highgate Cemetery and Keats House are must-sees and since they have such strict/limited opening hours, I'd plan these sites carefully to avoid disappointment.

I'd probably group the British Library, Highgate Cemetery and Keats House together on the Sunday (because Sunday will give you more leeway vis a vis the cemetery):

British Library opens at 9:30am;

Highgate Cemetery - western cemetery tours hourly from 11am to 3pm (you probably already know this you but you do have to join a tour in order to see the western cemetery)

Then Keats House, which closes at 5pm. I'm not sure if you could walk here from the cemetery, or if you'll need to take a bus or backtrack on the tube.

I'd allow an hour for transit between them, it probably won't really take that long but since the hours are so limited better to allow enough time to get there otherwise you risk missing them altogether.

Borough Market will be on Christmas hours so it'll be open every day that week. St Paul's, Tate Modern, Globe theater (from the outside at least), and Borough Market are good to group together.

British Museum and I think the National Gallery are open late on Fridays, to 8 or 9pm so that might be a way of squeezing one of them in.

"British Museum and I think the National Gallery are open late on Fridays, to 8 or 9pm"

A bit of clarification . .

The National Gallery is open til 9PM on Fridays.
The British Museum is open til 8:30PM on Thurs and Fri nights.

I prefer the worship service at St. Paul's to Westminster Abbey, but I like the Verger's tour of WA better than the tour at St. Paul's.

I agree that you definitely should visit the British Library. I also enjoyed the Dickens House (walking distance to the British Museum) and the Globe Theater tour.

I know you will have a wonderful time.

Carolyn (another English major)

I don't think sneakers are any more or less "gauche" than Coleman hiking boots - just wear what you know will feel good on your feet! If that's your running shoes, wear them (although I'd try to waterproof them first). janisj is right - you may not see many Londoners wearing gym shoes (or hiking boots, for that matter), but you also won't see them looking at your feet. No one cares.

<<I walked Japan for two weeks (WITH backpack the whole time...man, I've since learned to love the concept of daytripping) in a paid of good grey Adidas,>>

So get a new pair of good grey Adidas! It doesn't matter how good you are at walking all day if your feet hurt. It's so much more important to a good vacation to have comfortable feet than to worry for even one second what people think of your footwear. Worry about your footwear when you're dressing up, not when you're playing tourist.

I visited both Chepstow Castle and Tintern Abbey on the same day this past September.

Chepstow: I don't know why that CADW website says exhibition closed; I was concerned enough about it that I called ahead to the Castle before I went. As far as I could tell, all parts of the Castle were open, and I did enjoy my visit a lot. I highly, highly recommend reading the classic book "Life in A Medieval Castle" by Joseph and Frances Gies before you go -- detailed but readable account of, well, life in a medieval castle, with an introductory chapter that's specifically about how Chepstow Castle developed over the centuries.

By the way, there are several pubs at the foot of the car park outside the castle. You may find those useful for a midmorning warmup cup of coffee, because there is no "indoors" part of Chepstow Castle left. We had lunch in one of them.

Tintern Abbey: Lovely, especially in the absence of crowds, but not something that it will take you a lot of time to see and absorb, imho. I was running late (spent too long at Chepstow), so only had fifteen minutes here before the Abbey closed for the day. That was a bit short, but thirty minutes would have done me fine, as it was a bit brisk for summery sitting 'n' contemplating. In December I imagine one would similarly not want to sit on a (cold) rock and contemplate mortality. I recall a little tea shop, or maybe it was a pub, next to the car park here too. There's no immediately-adjacent village or anything.

Road from Chepstow to Tintern Abbey: The guidebooks I'd read built up the short drive from Chepstow to Tintern as unusually lovely. I was disappointed. I found it ordinary, with lots of the driving through tunnels of trees (so, no views). I don't think I could've been on the wrong road, so not sure what others see in it that I missed.

Oh my goodness! And who told you that?? Just plain silly. Not a soul anywhere will carry one bit what you have on your feet . . . . .>

yes indeedy and many will also be wearing sneakers themselves IME everywhere in Europe, not just the U.K.

ha, the sneaker thing I learned where else but here: fodors forums! I was making a packing list and looking up dress code requirements when I read it hahaha. To be fair it was a heated debate on whatever forum posting it was. I also learned that grown men should never wear shorts in europe either. Good thing we're not going in the summer because my husband practically lives in a pair of khaki shorts! The tangled webs we weave when first we dress to deceive....haha


Does it make sense to make a day-by-day itinerary of London as some have advised? I tend to over-plan and then get obsessed with keeping the plan, whereas my husband tends to underplan and, voila, magically it seem that everything works out for him (how does he do it?). I thought I would go with the "no plan, no expectations" attitude, but the sheer scale of London means that it makes much more sense, as many have advised, to make daily plans so that we don't go crazy walking in circles...

PS- I should mention that I do have the opening and closing times for every place so that, should we decide to go somewhere, we'll have the info there for quick reference. I just haven't put them in particular day/time slots.

I also learned that grown men should never wear shorts in europe either. Good thing we're not going in the summer because my husband practically lives in a pair of khaki shorts!>

Well this too is a fallacy IME - when Europeans go touring themselves they often wear shorts if hot enought. One reason you may not see many shorts in say northern Europe is because the weather is rarely warm enough to wear them.

But Italians for instance when they come to France i see many of them - macho Italian men - wearing shorts. Shorts will raise no eyebrows anywhere except in purely formal occasions, of course, just like at home.

Once again - NO ONE will care what you are wearing, whether on your feet or on your legs (there are obvious exceptions, like church dress codes, but in Decemberthat won't be an issue). So pack clothes and shoes that will be comfortable and practical for what you'll be doing. Sometimes people really stress about "blending in" when they're in Europe, but honestly - you won't, especially on a first trip, so why worry? Make sure you take what you need to enjoy yourself.

As far as the planning, I'm pretty type A myself, but I've traveled enough to know that things won't ever go QUITE as I plan! Before I leave I make a list of and prioritize things I want to do, and, as you said, opening/closing times (and days where things will be closed). I also find out how to get there. I do make a rough plan before I leave, so I know to try to see Keats House and Highgate on the same day (for example), but The Plan is always up for discussion every morning. Before I leave the hotel I figure out exactly what I want to do that day (which occasionally involves "wandering till I figure out what I want to do").

Hi pilgrim,

if you're stuck on going to Tintern, here's the link to the Chepstow Tourist Board:

http://www.visitwyevalley.com/attractions/index.html

they should be able to tell you about taxis etc. so you can maximise your time there. you will save a lot of money if you pre-book your train tickets - try www.thetrainline.com.

as you will be in London during the christmas season, there may be concerts that you'd be interested in, say at St. Martin in the fields, or St. John smith Square. google will probably help you find out more.

enjoy your trip

regards, ann

Others have mentioned it, but it bears repeating: the days in December are very short and that will impact sightseeing somewhat. For example, on December 20 the sun will rise at 8:04 am. and set 3:52 pm in London. That's an issue for your trips to the windy, cold Salisbury Plains and the Abbey Ruins. In London, it's no big deal...in fact you'll be able to see the Christmas lights in the shopping areas, Covent Garden, and Trafalgar Square early or late 'cause it will be dark before dinner!

Quoting Wordsworth:

"Therefore let the moon
Shine on thee in thy solitary walk;
And let the misty mountain-winds be free
To blow against thee"

Go English majors!

Yea! English Majors. Sounds like such a great trip.

Just to touch on the internet access question: keep eyes peeled for internet cafes all over town, ~1 GBP for 30-60 min.

I've never been to Chepstow. Is it that good that someone would come 3,000 miles for?

It does have a good racecourse. That much I know.

ps wear what ever you like. We do. Also we're quite used to what Americans wear and are no more put out by the sight of a grown man in shorts or clowns shoes that we are by turbans, burkhas, shawaaz kameez, headscarves, or those funny little raincoats the japanese wear.

Ah, the parochialism of the London plod. Chepstow on a Sunday in December. Like going back to the fifties.

Why not just re-arrange your itinerary and stay overnight in Wales?

ps wear what ever you like. We do. Also we're quite used to what Americans wear and are no more put out by the sight of a grown man in shorts or clowns shoes that we are by turbans, burkhas, shawaaz kameez, headscarves, or those funny little raincoats the japanese wear.>

Or those completely ridiculous Bobbie caps cops wear.

q - do the British find those coppers' helmets as ricidulous looking as foreign tourists do?

Sounds like a lovely trip, whatever you decide. I didn't see this mentioned in previous replies: If you're in Salisbury on the way to Stonehenge, Salisbury Cathedral (and the surrounding area) is an extraordinary place and one of the world's finest Gothic churches. If you decide to spend more time in that area, the Old Sarum hill fort is also an interesting visit.

Enjoy the trip!

Pal- what about the old boy scout hats your park rangers wear? And then there are the baseball caps ....

OP, here's an off-the-wall thought: as we've been discussing, Chepstow/Tintern Abbey might be unappealling in cold and/or drizzly weather, and the early darkness of December is a constraint. Have you considered a day trip to Bath as an alternative? You can get there straightforwardly by train, you get to play at being in a Jane Austen novel, and there's a lot to see, most of which is in a nice tight easily-walkable area. From personal experience, I can vouch that tea in the Pump Room on a drizzly December day is a fine, fine thing.

Pal- what about the old boy scout hats your park rangers wear? And then there are the baseball caps ....>

totally ridiculous - especially old fart baseball managers who must, by fiat, dress up in uniforms even though their playing days are long long gone.

And the some of the Queen's hats are even more ludicrous IMO

"q - do the British find those coppers' helmets as ricidulous [sic] looking as foreign tourists do?"

Ignore him folks. PQ's obviously back on the paint again. Guess the rehab didn't work . . . .

Chartley, I am interested--was that a typical weekend trip in the fifties? One might argue that any and all tourism to the UK, or Western Europe at all, is quite parochial

Palenque-- poverty, simply, is our only reason not to stay in Wales overnight. It was cheaper and easier to book a night in London (package deal with airfare) than to go looking for individual deals. Last time I was abroad we had intended to go from one city to another every day, but ended up staying in one great business-class hotel for about a week and daytripping instead. Best laid plans...Of course this was in Japan with the bullet trains zipping everywhere, so this posed no problem. I thought we would try the same thing here. Now that we've got a room in London, we don't want to pay for two rooms at once


tahl: I am actually pretty sad not to see Bath, since it is so often complimented in the travel guides. But I can't understand why it has become the Jane Austen city-- Austen only ever wrote disparagingly of it (most characters who went there suffered some terrible fate, like falling off a city wall while flirting, or eloping with a cad), and spent her unhappiest years there. However, my husband is a big history geek and he might go for this since there is so much Roman stuff to see there. I might have to jump in the baths myself after a cold drizzly day!