Where2GoWhat2Do

4 days London, 3 Paris, with husband and 2 teenage daughters....We know we want to see "the sights" but would love input as to ideas, including (and esp?) places to eat (not chic--we're burger people), etc. Harry Potter fans, not big museum kids (but Mom deems some impressionist a must). Should we wing it, or stick to an itinerary?

cathies

I'm not a believer in set itineraries as such, but you do need a list of places/sights you want to see in each city. Then sort them geographically so that you aren't wasting time rushing from one side of the city to the other.

In Paris you will find sandwich stands all over the place that sell lovely baguettes with crusty bread and fabulous fresh fillings. Musee D'orsay in Paris is a must if you like impressionist art. The gardens of Musee Rodin are very pretty and cheap 1 euro I think?? That will give you a taste of art in Paris if you don't want to spend ages in galleries.

Where2GoWhat2Do

Thanks, cathies

We're thinking we will do a quick bus tour in each city to get acquainted, then pick places from there. We have a list of the usuals, I'm sure, but aren't sure about the timing in each. For instance, is there something to do at Westminster Abbey/Buckingham Palace or are those just walk bys? I'm also thinking the Tower of London (crown jewels are there, I understand?). The girls would definitely like seeing things associated with the monarchy. They also want to see the Eye, and I have heard Covent Garden is a good idea for wandering (they are also shoppers).

In Paris, can you go to the top of the Eiffel Tower? My sister mentioned something about the catacombs. Is Versailles worth a day trip? I'm thinking to stay in town, see Musee D'orsay and the Louvre, Notre Dame, etc.

We will likely do the Baguette and Cheese route for lunches. Any good restaurant suggestions, low key pub fare? Neighborhood joints?

bilboburgler

Eye, i suggest you book it
Given your time drop Versailles
Add in V&A if you like D'Orsay you will love this. Maybe add St Pauls.

You will not go hungry but the idea of eating street food in Paris and London is kinda odd given both cities' culinary expertise. If you advise where you are staying and what you like to eat someone can advise where to eat. Hamburgers.... are they really part of a meal or just a refueling stop?

Michel_Paris

You have a limited time, so the bus tour to at least see all of the sites is not a bad idea

Both cities have good walking tours. London Walks and Paris Walks are two that I have used several times. There is a Royals Walk for London

In London, with your time, I would not do the Changing of the Guard, it is not good return for the time spent.

Tower of London is a good one, but get there first thing in the morning.

From Trafalgar Sq you can walk up to Buck, see St James Palace, St James Park...or you could head over to Covent Garden...or head to Big Ben, Houses of Parliament, Westminster Abbey. The Abbey has a good vergers tour.


For Paris the Vedettes du Pont Neuf is a good Seine cruise, I would do this after dark. Eiffel good. Place des Vosges and area is good for sights, eating, shopping. Notre Dame and St Chapelle are two close together sites worth seeing.

I would get (or read here) some guides to at least see what is 'on the menu'. Tnen, since you have a small 'plate', pick out the top few...and we can help craft an itinerary

jamikins

I would suggest looking at a good guide book with a map (I like michelin green guides for both London and Paris) and chunking those sites you are interested in together so you can pull out the lists and save yourself time. You dont have to do day by day plans, but it would be helpful to have a list of sites you want to see close to each others so you dont waste a lot of time travelling across the cities. Also - note any closed days so you dont end up showing up when what you want to see is closed.

I would also book open jaw tickets - into London, out of Paris, or vice versa. Also book your train between the two www.eurostar.com 4 months out to get the best price.

Enjoy!

texasbookworm

My teenage daughter loved The Tower of London and Westminster (YES, go in). Those each deserve half a day and are best if seen first thing, so be there at opening times. The British Museum is a wonder, and Covent Garden is a cool place the girls will like.

I disagree with some of the above--I think your time will be better spent looking at guidebooks/maps/Fodors Trip reports NOW and crafting some possible itineraries, partially dependent on where you are staying, and then hit the ground running/walking and don't "waste" time on a bus tour. If you "do" Westminster Abbey/Parliament/Big Ben/Westminster Bridge and area, then walk up Whitehall to Trafalgar Square and into the National Gallery--that will take most of a day and will take you by lots of must-see spots. Then the Tower one morning and across Tower Bridge and along the South Bank back to the Eye--that will take most of a day and by lots of other spots. Then another day the British Museum and Covent Garden--that will get you by lots of othe must-sees. If you really have another day, or if that 4th day is a part of a day you can walk around Buckingham Palace, St.James and Hyde Park and still maybe have some shopping time.

DON'T not plan--London is huge and must-sees spread all over, so your time needs to be well-planned by geography. DON'T plan too much--a couple major sites a day with a couple other "if we get to them" will leave you much less stressed. DON'T underestimate travel time. DO check maps, websites for times/dates of openings/closings, etc.

If your girls google Harry Potter sites, they might find a couple they really want to plan for--they won't just happen by and aren't on the major "must-see" routes.

For places to eat, if you're not looking for "fine dining" there are take-away places and pubs and cafes all over the place in London so you will not want for food choices!

IF you are in London Thurs-Sat and IF you have time, you might wander over Tower Bridge after seeing the Tower and go to Borough Market and find food-stuff, plus one of the streets used in the HP movies (although it's difficult to "see" that but it was) But other places should take precedent on your first trip.

texasbookworm

Meant to say--about your question--Should we wing it, or stick to an itinerary?

The answer is yes, sorta. HAVE some itineraries but be prepared to not stick too close to them (not exactly wing it) if need be.

jamikins

I agree - dont bother with the bus tour - they get stuck in traffic, are expensive and I find the tour guides difficult to hear most of the time. You would be better off orienting yourself with guide books before you go and hit the ground running.

Cathinjoetown

With three days in Paris, the catacombs would not be on my list but then they haven't been on my list in 40+ visits!

Do have at least an outline itinerary as others have suggested. You don't have to be a slave to it but it will help you make the most of your time. Have a great trip.

Where2GoWhat2Do

Thank you all SO much! Texasbookworm, my husband literally wrote out your suggestions as the outline itinerary you and others suggest. Michel_Paris, we'll be calling the Abbey to book the verger tour. My next site will be the "walks" tours. I also appreciate everyones' comments about timing.

Another question: the Oystercard vs. travel card thing is confusing the heck out of me. It looks like my husband and I might as well do the 7 day travelcard (cheaper than 4 full days otherwise, plus we can do the 2-for-1 entry on some of the sights) and the girls 4 1-days, to avoid them having to pay the additional 10 for a photocard. I felt like the 2-for-1 thing was a jackpot found, or are those really not as good deals as they seems? I saw something else about fast track tickets to sites? Is that a better way to go? Is there anything like this, to research now, for Paris, or do you just show up everywhere and pay at the gate?

Thanks again, everyone!

jamikins

The 2for1 deals are great. Just get 7 day travel cards at an overland train station rather than at the tube stations - if you tell us where you are staying we can point you to the nearest one. And then print the voucher and bring with you to the site you are seeing!

Where2GoWhat2Do

We're actually staying at the St. Pancras station, so should be easy enough... In Paris, we're at the Arc de Triomphe.

Is the train how you would recommend coming in from Heathrow as well? (We're already booked on a train going to Paris.)

jamikins

You can take the tube from Heathrow to Kings Cross-St Pancras. Just buy a ticket at the airport and then buy your transit pass at the overland train station on your way out of the station - just be sure you get the orange national rail 7 day pass from the train station, not the tube station.

Where2GoWhat2Do

Thanks, jamikins! You have been very helpful. I'll keep checking if you or anyone else has other thoughts.

jamikins

No problem - I love planning this kind of stuff

A couple of ideas for days:

1. Tower (please plan to spend 1/2 a day here - its the best site in London) + Tower Bridge + Borough Market if Thurs - Sat + South Bank walk - see the Globe + St Pauls

2. Buckingham Palace + St James' Park + Parliament/Big Ben + Westminster Abbey + Churchill War Rooms + Trafalgar Sq + Covent Garden area

Get your kids involved in the planning as well - you will have a fab trip!

texasbookworm

We bandy about terms that used to confuse me; train/tube/rail. If you have all this squared away in your head, then just ignore my comments; if not, maybe they will help.

A train in and around London can refer to both the "Tube" (the subway--except a subway in London is NOT a vehicle but a pedestrian underpass)and what we think of as a train.

There are basically two transportation entities that you may deal with--the National Rail system which runs the trains between cities and Transport for London (TFL) which runs "stuff" in the London area, including the Tube and some trains.

From LHR, the Tube is going to be the cheapest way to get to London, and since you are staying near a TUBE stop on the PICADILLY line (which is the only line that runs to LHR), then you can probably do that. (If you have lots of luggage--hope not--or if the hotel turns out to be fairly far away, then you may want to look at a car service, like justairports, which will pick you up at the airport and deliver you to your door and schlep your luggage for you--but it is more than the Tube and not a lot faster).

There are several large stations--St.Pancras/KingsCross is one--that are both Tube stations and national rail stations. You can purchase Tube passes at either stations that just service the Tube or at these bigger stations.

Now the tricky part is--whether to get a PAPER 7 day travel card (which you use on the Tube) which has to be bought at such large stations where there is a national rail office (and LHR is NOT such so you cannot buy a paper ticket at LHR) OR to get an Oyster card (which is just a plastic "debit" like card) loaded with a 7-day-travel-pass OR to get an Oyster loaded with some amount of money (called Pay as you go--PAYG).

For the 2for1 offers you need both a PAPER travel card AND the voucher which you print off before you leave home (I've heard they are available on site but I don't know). Since you will be traveling through a National Rail station, it won't be out of your way to purchase the pass there.

HOWEVER, if you ride the Tube from LHR, you will still have to purchase a single ride ticket from LHR to St. Pancras. AND you need to look at the 2for1 website and see if there are really any sites you will use a voucher for (the Tower of London would be a good one--most others are not that great for a first time visitor, are overpriced, or are for food). So it MIGHT not be worth any hassle to buy the paper card--just get the plastic Oyster at LHR.

And if you are only going to be in London for 4 days, the 7 day card may not be the best value.

Another option (stay with me!) would be to purchase the Oyster card loaded with some cash (ask the attendant how much) at LHR, ride to St. Pancras, purchase there only 1 (per person) 1-day paper travel pass and use that on the day you go to the Tower and use the cash credit on the Oyster card for the other times. That's what we have done--used the Oyster for the bulk of our travel and buy 1-day paper cards for any time we wanted to use the vouchers.

Does that help?

Where2GoWhat2Do

(It absolutely helps, texasbookworm...and gives my husband some more research to do

Michel_paris (and others), I noticed you mentioned the Chocolate Tour in response to another's post. Actually, the elder daughter and I are both interested in cooking/baking/food and I looked at Paris Walks, but theirs aren't happening when we'll be there. Do you have other companies to suggest or places to go to do it "on our own"?

KayDoll

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KTtravel

One thing to keep in mind is that many museums are closed one day a week. You might check their websites for their hours and days. Sometimes they are also open one night or so a week, particularly during the summer.

A small museum that I love for their Monet waterlilies is the Orangerie in Paris. It doesn't take long to go through but is a real treat if you like Impressionism. The upper level has two rooms of enormous Monet paintings and the lower level has a nice assortment of Impressionists.

Another place I really enjoy is Sainte Chapelle which is very close to Notre Dame - beautiful little chapel with lovely stained glass windows.

The Eiffel Tower is open at night and lights twinkle all over it for five minutes or so on the hour. I think it is more fun at night than during the day as it actually looks quite pretty all lit up. And yes, you can go up the tower!

I have never been to the catacombs and don't think it would be high on my list for your limited amount of time. However, perhaps your family would really enjoy this. Versailles would take most of a day to go see and, unless it is a high priority, I think you'll have plenty to keep you busy in Paris.

The vergers tour (already suggested above) in Westminster Abbey was very good and, although more expensive than a regular visit, I think it is worth the extra cost.

I would also suggest heading straight for the Crown Jewels when you arrive at the Tower of London (first thing in the morning) and then taking the Yeoman Warder's tour afterwards. You'll almost have the jewels to yourselves that way and avoid a long line which will form later.

Buckingham Palace does offer tours but usually not until August during the summer months. Your daughters might really enjoy this if they are interested in the royal family.

If you like theatre, seeing a play in London can be really fun.

Picking up a good guidebook (I like Rick Steves for first timers but others are also good) and having everyone in the family figure out what sights are priorities will help you narrow down your sightseeing. I think involving your daughters in the planning will also help them get excited about the trip.

I wouldn't worry too much about restaurants since you're not looking for special dining experiences. You'll easily locate lots of restaurants and cafes everywhere you go and can just decide to eat when you're hungry. If you know where you'll be staying, I'm sure people here can make suggestions of places near your hotels.

Hope this helps. Happy planning!