Europewithkids

My family was in Europe in August and all of us were struck by the rampant line cutting we experienced (we were in Switzerland, France and the Netherlands). Everywhere we went, we noticed what in the U.S. would be an abnormal number of people of all ages blatantly cutting lines. If a line was wide and there was room to slither ahead of you along the side, someone would do it (very common in Disneyland Paris). If we were in line and leaned to one side to put down a bag, the person behind us would try to slip into our spot. I actually admonished a few people who tried to cut us and noticed that they just waited and cut the people behind us. After an unpleasant confrontation with a man on a metro station ticket line, we decided that this was just part of the culture (with the exception of the English) and tried to let it go. My 15 year old commented on what would happen to all of these folks if they acted like that in NYC!

Has anyone noticed this? Interestingly, early in our trip I was chatting with an English woman who mentioned how Europeans do not get the concept of lines. I had not noticed this on other trips to Europe but it had been 4 years since I was last in Europe. On this trip of two weeks and three countries, it was hard to miss.

Underhill

The San Francisco Chronicle's travel section today had an article on exactly this problem--it is a royal pain. I've finally developed the art of using my elbows to fend off people who try to cut in front of me, but I always feel rude doing so.

DAJ

During our first trip to Europe, Italy specifically, my husband & I were somewhat shocked that folks did not "respect" our waiting in line at the airport.

We were queued up for the ticket counter, which was not open yet, at the venice airport. Standing back a respectable amount of space, and a customer just came right in front and hugged the counter and began to wait. We witnessedthis type of behavious contstanly. We chalked it up to the culture. But it was difficult getting used to.

Europewithkids

Underhill, I just read the Chronicle article you referenced (thanks for pointing it out). The writer mentions how lines have broken down in the U.S. but his comments then unwittingly point out the difference between the U.S. and continental Europe on waiting your turn. If it is not obvious, Americans will indeed ask the person next to them if they were first. In Europe, they not only do not ask but they push ahead of you even when it is obvious that you were first and even when there is a real line. I also agree with DAJ that even when you accept it as a cultural thing, it is difficult to quietly put up with.

tropo

Just put it down to either rudeness or ignorance.

hsv

What do two English persons do when they meet abroad ?

- Form a line ! ;-)

Seriously, I do appreciate the discipline and courtesy that displays in forming lines when waiting. I also can confirm that elsewhere on the continent the art of forming a line has not yet been learned to full extent. But I also happen to notice that things show a tendency to the better. At least at bank counters people will leave some gap to ensure privacy - at least if they are reminded by respective signs that tend to be put up more and more around here.

ira

Hi E,

When in Rome, do as the Romans do, or else you will be waited on last.

My Lady Wife refuses to act "rudely" when other people cut in line.

One year we went to see the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace. We arrived early and secured a place at the fence. People began oozing up to and in front of us. I kept pushing them away.

My LW, however, simply let them ooze. At the start of the ceremony, we were in row 29.

TopMan

First of all, this talk about "rudeness" is irrelevant since Europeans do not view this behavior as "rude" at all, which is why they do it.

Unfortunately, if you asked THEM what they thought of YOU patiently waiting in line, they would probably call it stupid.

Yes, in Rome and all that but again, they don't consider it rude...sorry.

flanneruk

Queues aren't hard-wired into the human psyche. So a propensity to form them will obviously vary fom place to place.

So generalising about "Europe" in this respect is really rather pointless. THe thought that Russians would behave in the same way as Turks or Spaniards has to be very silly.

Nonetheless, even in Britain, the queue culture has more or less disappeared, except in banks and post offices. One fascinating sight these days is watching those of us from the queue-respecting generation struggling at bus stops with the (far more numerous) adolescents and immigrants who've never learned about the philosophy. Forgiveable in the Bosnians: but in the case of the native-born, the result of socially irresponsible parents.

Oddly, even in Scandinavia the philosophy of the queue is a thing of the past. Stand in the queue for a Swedish ski-lift, and compare the grisly, bruising experience with what happens in Colorado or Idaho.

m_kingdom2

Don't get so upset about it, if you see people pushing in front of you, adopt similar tactics.

That said, in smart European boutiques, I've never ever queued, the assistants will always take my purchases from me and have them packed and waiting for me before I've even re-addressed my appearance in the changing rooms. In the Dries van Noten store in Antwerp, they even handwrote the receipt, a fantastic touch.

Airline queues, I always jump in front to the Club check-in, even if I'm not flying Club.

platzman

The all-time world champion line cutters are the cute little nuns attending the Pope's Wednesday Vatican audience.

atlcity

The "ugly american" tourist has nothing on the German and Russian tourists.If you want to generalise then we are angels in comparison.

hopscotch

Cutting into lines in Europe has been going on since at least when I first went nearly 30 years ago. American courtesy is interpreted as a weakness to be exploited by Europeans. Britain is the only place where a queue is respected, at least by the natives.

In many establishments number machines have been installed so that everybody knows their place, e.g. in Haarlem the post office and international train office have them. Look around when you enter to see if people have the numbered coupons in their hands.

Stay close to the person ahead of you at all times and pay attention to people coming up to the line. When people cut you off do not hesitate to give them the thumb indicating that they stand behind you. Speaking English will only earn you a phony puzzled look by the expert line crashers.

Europewithkids

Note: My comments are aimed mostly at situations in which there IS a line. I am not talking so much about whether people form a line as how they approach already exisiting lines. I do not think people need to be taught to wait their turn when it is so obvious. By the way, if they do not think it is rude, why do they have a number system in SNCF boutiques in Paris? Obviously, they recognize the concept of everyone waiting their turn. Just because people do something does not mean they think it is okay. It may just be the way things are done. I would love to hear from some Europeans on how line cutting is viewed or if it is even an issue.

hopscotch

E w/kids: I'm not sure what it is you intended to say. I've lived in 4 countries in Europe and traveled nearly everywhere. The fact is that lines are not respected, at least not by locals who recognize you as an American and that identification is not difficult for them to do. As for 'teaching' them, give them the thumb or stand there and seethe. I prefer to let them know I was already there, and if they don't go behind me I step in front of them. It's my time in that line and I'm not going to waste it on some Italian teenagers.

As for the SNCF it is the same as I mentioned for the NS in NL. The number machines allow people to sit down and relax, and/or browse the pamphlets and schedules.

Europewithkids

Sorry Hopscotch, I was really addressing some of the other comments that were focused on the actual formation of a line and how perhaps it is not just a custom in some places. I was just clarifying that I was speaking primarily of situations where a line has already been formed. By the way, our experience was that all types of folks cut lines, including families. I did react the way you suggested and one of those incidents (Paris Metro ticket booth) came close to a physical confrontation (both sides backed off before it got that far). That is when we decided that we needed to be mindful of how far we took our protests.

USNR

In my experience, the world's champs for rude line-cutting are (in no particular order): Germans, French, and Israelis. When I holler, they shape up. I have no hesitation...at confrontation.

Graziella5b

Yes, I did notice one day in a long long line to see an special exibit in the Musee d'Orsay I could not believe my eyes the way they cut the line. And they were French too. Of course many more stayed in line.

jdraper

It has been my experience in Italy that lines are simply not respected. The last time we were leaving Marco Polo an Italian "gentleman" and his daughter cut the line to go through security and caused quite an uproar among those left waiting but the airline staff did nothing. Imagine my delight when he tried the same thing at JFK in New York to get through customs when I was able to tell him that he was in my country now and the line begins back there. He still tried to remain in line ahead of many others but was quickly put in his place by several travelers and eventually took himself to the back of the line. I hope that he had more sense that to continue that behavior in New York because it could get very ugly.

tuscanlifeedit

>USNR: your comments remind me of the summer evening in Pennsylvania when we took our Israeli houseguest to the local Dairy Queen (soft serve ice cream stand). The line moved extremely slowly, and it took about 20 minutes to have our order filled.

Our guest was incredulous. She told us over and over that in Israel, the quiet line of customers waiting their turn would never have happened. She described scenes of pushing, yelling, etc that surprised me.

We travel a good bit, but haven't really experienced what others here describe. But then again, I'm not one to let folks push ahead of me, so perhaps I've never noticed, or not noticed enough to form an idea of cultural differences in line queing.