I would hate to think that one's lack of swimming skills would prevent them from travelling to Italy. Seems downright ridiculous.

Number One- It is not necessary to go on a Gondola ride. Venice is very manageable on foot.

Number Two- I don't think they have life jackets on the gondolas. I might be wrong, but I never saw them.

Don't let something so small and unimportant stop you from going to see the world. I don't know how old your cousin is, but it sounds like her mother doesn't want her to ever leave home.
Hope to see you here.

Sorry, Faith, but this is one of the funniest titles I've seen here!

Tell your cousin to learn to swim. Good life skill, anyway. It is certainly possible to fall in the water in Venice - or practically anywhere else.

not to be disrespectful..but while travelling via vaporetto to the islands on a particularly rainy day in Venice, my partner told me the story of the capsizing vaporetto. My first response was..well to have seen Venice would have been worth it!

The gondolas aren't meant to be the sole means of transport around Venice's waterways -- that is why they have the vaporetti! I have never heard of anyone falling out of a gondola (unless they were drunk?!). The gondoliers are experienced rowsmen who know the waterways like the back of their hands. They certainly wouldn't put their boat or passengers in jeopardy or possible collision with another boat, etc. There is nothing to worry about! If it is a major concern, then ride the vaporetti - you will be safe there high above the water!

Well with that kind of thinking anybody who can't swin has to stay away from any oceans, lakes, rivers, ponds, can never go on a cruise, on a ferry, or on any airplane flying over water. Your cousin wouldn't be able to go anywhere!

No neither gondolas nor vaporetti have life jackets - there would be no room for passengers if they were all wearing life jackets. (FYI - in many places in Venice if the boat sank - I can't imagine how - all you would have to do is stand on top of it - the water there is generally VERY shallow.)

This is the silliest posit I have ever read here!

I think that there ARE life jackets - - almost certainly on vaporetti - - and truth be told, I bet you that there actually is some kind of flotation device even on gondole. The gondolier has some kind of compartment(s) in the back I think.

While the question seems a bit silly (to those eho have been there - - but someone uninformed might think that there is gondola traffic out on the open Mediterranean Sea!) - - there is not as much fun poked at those who have fear of flying. And we don't even know that the cousin or her mother have any actual fear in this situation. It was just a question for pity sake!

Best wishes,

Rex

If her mother is that concerned, promise her that your cousin won't go on a gondola or vaporetto. It's not necessary as you can walk just about anywhere as long as you don't want to go to one of the smaller lagoon islands or the Lido. It's highly unlikely that any vaporetto would capsize or sink--certainly the ones that service the canals of the old city would not be exposed to conditions conducive to such an eventuality.

Oh, the vaporetti do have flotation devices for passengers.

Any further info on that capsizing vaporetto?

Strikes me as something one tells greenhorns.

Yipes, if I ever fell in "that" water I would hope to drown because I know that the fecal bacteria would certainly kill me anyway!

I thought this was a joke, but I guess not. It would be very difficult to drown while on a gondola ride. Most of the canals are pretty narrow and shallow, and there are always lots of other boats around.

Besides - they strap you in, so that if it flips over, they can just right it up, and you'll just be a little wet!!!

Lifejackets on buses?

Ira, I, too, have been trying to confirm this.

Holly_uncasdewar claimed in the following thread that she read in Veniceword.com a traghetto with 16 people capsized in mid-November 2003:
http://www.fodors.com/forums/threadselect.jsp?fid=2&tid=34459709

I've searched numerous archives and there is no record of this event. I'm sorry I didn't ask friends in Venice over the holiday but I intend to e-mail an inquiry.

Howard--yes, on the water buses (vaporetti).

Rufus, of course. How stupid of me! Oh well, it's still early in the day!

Hi
As indicated above, faithonholiday's cousin's mother must be thinking of very old movies and books and is under the impression that gondolas are a form of mass transit nowadays. They aren't, any more than the horse-drawn carriages around Central Park in NYC are.

Vaporettos are wide and large water buses. I suppose water accidents are possible, but so are land bus and automobile accidents 24-7 everywhere else, and with much more frequency and higher fatality rates.

By the way, I wouldn't want to swim in the canals either, but they are not open sewers. Venice has pipes, and sewage treatment plants.

Silly or not, the depth of the water in the canals aren't too deep to begin with. If a gondola ever capsized I think one could almost walk ashore.

Sorry, Elaine, but Venice has no sewage treatment plant. So far, the canals are it and it's been this way since the beginning.

Hi NYCFS,

I can understand an overloaded traghetto overturning, but a vaporetto capsizing?

NYCFS: I remember seeing the article about the capsized traghetto in Buongiorno Venezia. If I remember correctly it was felt the accident was caused by the boat being overloaded with too many passengers.

Will be interested in what you are able to find out.

NYCFS - why don't you email Rosalba at Veniceword and ask her to either email you the (now old) news item or at least confirm the story.

regarding Venice and sewers, I could be wrong, but I've read elsewhere to the contrary. Perhaps "sewage treatment" is an overly optimistic term for me to use. But there are canals in Venice, and there are sewers (many of which unfortunately empty into canals or the lagoon), but they are not one and the same.

http://europeforvisitors.com/venice/articles/five_myths_about_venice.htm

http://www.airvac.com/news.htm

http://www.dhi.dk/softcon/papers/042/042/042.htm

Thank you, Giovanna and Holly, I will research further.

The NYTimes and the International Tribune came up with nothing in their archives, which surprised me. 16 passengers capsizing in Venice this past November seems like a story that would get published extensively. Yet, nothing on Google or Yahoo.

Elaine, there is tremendous hope that Venice will create a sewage system in tandem with the creation of Moses Gates. Many researchers are working on this issue and Airvac is just one company that has been able to achieve a little success (very little).

All of Venice's sewage is currently dumped into the canals and these are flushed (for lack of a better term) twice daily into the Adriatic Sea. This is just one reason why the Moses Gates project is so controversial. There is considerable fear of what might occur if you stop the constant circulation of canal water, even for just a few hours. It's a fascinating subject.

There may be life jackets stored on vaporetti - but the passengers certainly don't wear them - and by the time they could be found, handed out and put on by a boat full of people - I'm sure the boat would have reached shore.

Zootsi - Thanks for the chuckle

Tam

For what it's worth, we did see someone wind up in the water at the beginning of January. Brrrrr. Cold!

Not sure what happened. We were walking in a somewhat remote area, and we heard a commotion up ahead on a canal bank. An older woman was in the water struggling to get out, and some people were helping to pull her out.

Looked like she walked down one of the canal stairways (which I would assume are used to access private boats) and fell in. A restaurant/pub was nearby, so we assumed she was drunk.

Moral of the story - boats in Venice are very safe. Foolish people, though, can be dangerous.

Why would 16 passengers capsizing in Venice make the paper in New York? No one said there were injuries did they?

Would the evacuation of 16 people from an office building in Vienna - - due to a fire - - be expected to make the New York Times? If no one was injured?

These days, it would be on CNN.

Maybe, maybe not. In our town of Westerville, Ohio there was big coverage when candidate Bush came to our kids' high school. But then he came to the other two high schools in Westerville subsequently. Yawn.

Newsworthy depends on slow news days.

In the Dorsodoro area we watched either a drunken or a handicapped man (we couldn't tell from the distance) fall into the deep canal and pull his dog in with him. I didn't get to see what happened because we were on a vaparetto going the other way. It has worried me ever since.

Oh Rex, puhleeeze. You're not that naive in Ohio.

Evacuating 16 people from an office building on fire in Vienna can hardly compare to 16 being capsized in the Grand Canal of Venice. Fires are far more common than gondolas capsizing with a boatload full in Venice. This is just the kind of item one might find on pages 2-3 of the NY Times Travel section or, especially their website.

Ira is right, I doubt CNN would ever pass on an item like this. Venice is a hot topic these days and every tourist (and writer) who visits this city can imagine themselves falling into the Grand Canal in absolute horror. Since when does someone have to get hurt to make the news?

Traghettos travel on the GC only and the GC averages a depth of 9 feet but can go as deep as 13 feet near the Rialto. The smaller canals range from 3-5 feet deep.

zootsi may think it's funny but doctors insist you can drown with just a teaspoon of water. Here's some interesting reading:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=3544485&thesection=news&thesubsection=general&thesecondsubsection=

...and happy drinking and swimming everyone.

Hey, hon, just because YOU can't find the article anywhere

DOESN'T MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

Okay, call me naive, but I would still submit that we have no idea how common or rare it is for folks to end up in the water while using public transportation in Venice. I also have no idea how common fires in Vienna are. How would I?

Okay - - case in point - - a story in Corriere della Sera involving a gondola and 12 passengers; had to be evacuated; two minor injuries - - http://www.corriere.it/Primo_Piano/Cronache/2003/11_Novembre/21/gondola.shtml

This made news outside of Italy where?

Good morning, I am sure it must have happened because that part of the family dwells on disaster news, they will pick out the tiniest article and talk about it like it happens every day.

My cousin is an adult, but really belongs in the Victorian Era, she is naive and just now starting to peck out of her shell. This is why I want to encourage her but not at my own (expensive) expense (she is deathly afraid of water after near drowning in a lake). She thinks you exit your hotel and have to tiptoe around deep canals in the dark (I don't want to come back after dinner so she won't fall in).

I have no idea what the canals are like so excuse my question - to me it isn't silly.

Even on this thread where you are all experienced travelers there is no certain knowledge if life jackets are provided in an emergency (thanks for checking the internet, I will read the articles now).

Thanks again all of you, and keep me updated!

Hi faith,

Venice has real streets, just like in the US. In some cases, there is a canal instead of a road between the streets.

Sometimes the street has a bridge going over the canal.

It is not easy to fall into a canal, even at night.

You would really have to work at it to fall into the water. Most streets are not along canals. Streets along canals that tourists would wander about on are wide enough that there is essentially no danger of falling in. Getting onto and off of a vaporetto is very easy--you'd just about have to want to get into the water and make a big effort to do so.

<<Venice has real streets, just like in the US. In some cases, there is a canal instead of a road between the streets.>>

Oh, ira - - this is terribly misleading to tell a newcomer to Venice! Venice HAS NO streets on which any vehicular traffic occurs, except for a few handcarts. There are ONLY canals. Now its true, there are PEDESTRIAN "streets", some as narrow as a driveway, a few reminiscent of an outdoor mall. There are a modest number of big canals (meaning as big as a driveway, and only one GIANT canal - - the Grande Canal has (foot) bridges over it that are close to 100 yars in span, faith - - it's about as wide as a four lane highway, i.e, it's like a small river. All the canals have "sidewalks" (or pedestrian "streets" if you prefer) - - usually, but not always, on both sides of the banks. They might be as marrow as six people abreast, or as wide as 16. Along the Grande Canal, there are whole (little) restaurants at the canalside, with the tables pushed right up against the railing.

There is plenty of basis for reassuring you and your cousin, but telling you that Venice has streets, "just like in the US" is laughably misleading you!

Geez, I'm with you Rex, this strikes me as a perfectly rational question, given that in the majority of situations, the rule is: nonswimmer + boat = life jacket.

As for the amusing, I suggest this as alternative: if a tree falls in a forest and the NYTimes doesn't report on it, did it make a sound?

Venice does have streets and alleyways and sidewalks--some wide, some narrow, some along canals, most not, but, unlike the USA, all are for pedestrians, pushcarts, and baby carriages only.

I drive my car over many bridges, some are even floating bridges. Should I consider getting life jackets for all passengers and the driver? How about replacing seat cushions with flotation devices? Replacing the visor with a flotation visor? Do I need a flotation device for my most frequent passenger, my dog?

Faith, your last paragraph may have the answer. Will this trip devolve to babysitting a nervous family member until you lose sight of why you went in the first place?

Hey, Holly_underwear, better pull that G-string down, girl, before you start flossing with it. I didn't call you a liar and nor did I suggest the event did not take place. So, chill, hon!

Don't worry! If your gondola tips over you can walk to shore on top of the garbage.

Hi Rex,

From the American Heritage Dictionary

Street: "A public way or thoroughfare in a city or town, usually with a sidewalk or sidewalks. b. Such a public way considered apart from the sidewalks: ... c. A public way or road along with the houses or buildings abutting it.."

Note that there is no reference to vehicular traffic.

Rex:

You wrote, "While the question seems a bit silly (to those eho have been there - - but someone uninformed might think that there is gondola traffic out on the open Mediterranean Sea!)..." - -

I heard that Venice is sinking but until now I didn't realize just how far.

That was pretty crude even for you, NYCFS. You certainly are the epitome of "If it weren't for low class, she wouldn't have any at all" now, aren't you?

What's the matter? New man in your life "out" on you already?

Just back from a rainy week in Venice and tourists were wearing life jackets in gondolas. Mind you, not everyone, but enough that we noticed!

What's this...a pot (T-Fal) calling a kettle (Alessi) black?

Aha, life jackets! I will have to tell her, we are having a family GTG tonight.

I would assume the government would require that they at least carry them on board, but maybe not, I am thinking in American terms here!

Good point about babysitting my lil' cousin! She is the baby of the family for sure, although just a few years younger than I am.

All joking (and cat-fighting) aside, the basic thing to keep in mind is that Venice is a wonderfully safe, and wonderful place. Not knowing how to swim is no reason to skip it. Your cousin can even bring her own life-jacket. I'm not kidding. (Though I can't imagine seeing someone walking around there in a life-jacket myself.)

I can easily hear my mother-in-law saying the same thing to my wife. Wife was deathly afraid of water and flying when we first met. Now we fly to England to go canal boating and I don't have to fill her full of trank's to get there and she never asks about life jackets when we get the boat. but if her mother was still around I'm sure she would fret until we got back.

Rick

I've travelled quite a bit and Venice just surprised me. It was the first stop on my honeymoon, so I was still shell-shocked when I got there and the place I least researched, but the lack of streets just blew me away. I guess somewhere in my head, I figured there was a part of the city where there were cars, and then there was the part with canals. But there are only canals and pedestrian passages. I don't think the average person will fall into a canal anymore than they would trip off a sidewalk and fall into traffic, but in reality, if you do trip, in some areas you CAN fall into a canal. So, I think that Venice, for someone with a fear of water or drowning, would be a horrible choice for a vacation.

I'm scared of frogs, so camping in a rainforest on vacation is pretty out of the question. What I would do with your cousin is go somewhere else where there would be less anxiety about water, maybe Rome or Florence where the water is less omnipresent.

Just make sure she doesn't watch the movie Summertime before she goes, or she'll never get on the plane.

I am a Clinical Resource Manager on an Oncology floor in a very busy hospital.

I come home from work and check this board.

I have to say, this topic really made me smile. Daily I see people who wish they would have and could have done this and that.

Go to Venice and bring an inflatable innertube or something. Blow it up right before the gondola trip and then toss it in the garbage can afterward.. my goodness.

robbiegirl, you made me smile, thanks.

I could just picture Cousin walking with an innertube! Maybe one with a horsey head?

Oh no, we American tourists have enough of a reputation, now if we start wearing horse headed flotation tubes on the Grand Canal what will be next, swim fins?

Hmmm, a horse head in Italy??? Now THAT might be asking for trouble. How about a fish or something.. a rubber ducky.

Really, Faith. Please do not feel that we are making fun of what you had written. We are just playing around and seriously mean you no harm. I truthfully doubt the gondola will tip over.

Please look online and really see how many of them have capsized. She is more likely to be hit by a car walking across the street.

Thanks for all the encouraging posts but after our family meeting things have changed.

Her parents offer/insist that they subsidize our trip and that we go first class on them, if we don't go to Venice.

Now I don't like to be bought out, but a free first class trip would be nice too. I am tempted to accept and then we would work on a new itinerary, luckily my cousin and I get along fine because I understand her (knowing her parents).

I will post our tentative and see if it passes Fodorite scrutiny.

Faith, I think that sounds like a good deal. Your cousin can always go to Venice on her own when she's a little more confident. I wouldn't advocate capitulating to parents, but if they are paying, they're allowed to have silly whims, and it's not like you won't see a lot elsewhere.

I guess if she fell in a lake and nearly drowned, you can understand her parent's point of view, but I personally would have insisted on swimming lessons a long time before this!! How old is she again to have her parents still be insisting what she does? My mother had swimming lessons at the grand old age of 76, because she couldn't swim well and always wanted to! Anyway, I'd go first class too and go to Venice without her another time!

Yep, I agree, take them up on their offer and go back w/o her with the money you have saved.

Are you going to have to swear to them that you will go to a place completely without water?

I do think they are just fanning her fears to keep her under their wings, that would bother me, but I guess you are used to it. Maybe you can edge her a little towards the coast?

Those are some really sick people. They need help.

This topic has certainly given me some things to think about. The next time I visit to a hilltown, I'm taking along bottled oxygen in case of pulmonary edema from the altitude. And I'm cancelling my visit to Pisa for obvious reasons.

If they feel so strongly about it that they will pay for the trip if you don't go to Venice, I agree; Go to Venice another time without her.

Stay away from Rome. Too many fountains.

Why not get them to pay for you to go to Verona?
You can then hop on a bus and go to Venice. Of course Lake Garda is probably out too!

Faith : The situation they've now put you in stinks - but I see your point. Bruges (only for a day or two) might also be a new option now, just to give your cousin a taste of what she's missing.

You all are funny people - Thanks again!

This post has just cranked up my urge 100% to return to the lovely Venezia for a second visit!

Tam

I agree with Rufus--those parents need professional help. I sure hope they haven't been this controlling and obsessive about this issue their child's whole life. And how old is this "adult" child of theirs? Can she not form opinions on her own?

After playing dodgeball with cars on sidewalks, vespas, bikes and the general chaos that makes Italy such a delightful mess, we found Venice a car free oasis of relaxation. If you're feeling like you need to wear a lifejacket in Venice, then you should probably consider wearing a helmet as a pedestrian in Florence and Rome....hmmm, maybe that's not such a bad idea

As for those controlling, manipulative parents - I wouldn't take a penny of their dirty money, you're just acting as an enabler for their head games. However, if you do take their money, I'd go to Venice anyway. These people deserve to have their strings pulled for a change, it might even be considered therapeutic for your cousin to break out of her shell.

Wait a minute, NYCFS is gracious enough to "thank" Holly for the Rosalba/e-mail suggestion and then Holly comes back to bite off NYCFS's head because NYC can't find any corroborating documentation? Then, after Holly screams with condescension at NYC, Holly accuses NYC of being crude and classless? What's wrong with this picture?

This thread is funny and so are many on this board. Now, if you'll excuse me, it's time for my swim.

I think we have the characters and plot for a novel here!

Byrd

I agree with 39Steps. Take their money and go to Venice anyway. Hopefully, little cousin will get a backbone and cut those apron strings. She should take a traghetto ride, standing of course, and you can take a picture of her doing so. What a souvenir to give to Mom and Dad! It's a shame that parents who can afford to send their child and a companion on a first class trip to Italy couldn't have spent some money on that child earlier in life to give her proper swimming lessons.

It would be wrong to take the money under false pretenses.

Either take the money and don't see Venice, or don't take the money and see Venice.

Well the tip about not watching 'Summertime' before the trip is a good one..but then again, while Katherine Hepburn did make it out of the canal, she apparently never got over the nasty eye infection she'd gotten there. It goes to show 'ya..ya always worry about the wrong things.

So much material on this forum for years and years of comedy, keep them coming!

The plot thickens: We have decided to celebrate her 40th Birthday in Italy. Yes, 40! (but this means we will have to travel in March).

She has lived a charmed life in her parent's guest house, working as a wedding decorator when she gets bored. She is a lovely person really and I think it is time she lived life instead of watching it in old movies, which she does every day.

I'm going to call her when I have a few minutes and get started planning, I'll start a new thread for tips. I have a few ideas up my sleeve....

A "wedding decorator" whatever next?

40 years old? I thought she was perhaps 19 to 21. If she wants to go to Venice, she should definitely earn the money for it.

She's 40 and she's allowing her parents to dictate her every move??? Is this for real?

Where does SHE want to go?

And Faith, Bless you for helping her break out of this cocoon she's been living in...hopefully she'll learn from you and finally start living her own life.

I'm confused. Does Cousin even want to go to Venice? Or is that where FaithonHoliday wants to go and has generously offered to bring Cousin along? If Cousin isn't interested in Venice (hard to believe, but not everyone is), don't go there. There are so many wonderful places to go in Italy and elsewhere that would not stir up her phobia.

It does get confusing doesn't it? We have an oddball family, what can I say?

She wants to go to Venice on one hand but is afraid on the other so I am going to skip Venice - I don't want her to have a panic attack while I am there alone with her, I will take this a step at a time for her, then go back on my own later in the year (if I have any strength left!).

Cousin is called Bambi now days, short for Bambina (her father is Italian heritage). She would hate to know I am writing to strangers about her, but she is completely inexperienced in (all aspects) of life, and all you know is that my name is Faith, so it is ok.

There is an infinitesimally small risk that the wrong person will read this - - but I knew someone who lived with her parents - - in a child like way until she was about 60 or 65. I knew her from the time I was about 8, I think (she was 23?); she was like a maiden aunt to my family.

I never thought that her parents were really controlling of her life. She functioned fabulously in her chosen career, and she traveled much of the United States - - maybe not abroad with some cousins of hers, and maybe solo some.

A brother of hers was killed by lightning when they were early adolescents, and the dad coulde never reconcile himself to celebrate Christmas - - at least not visibly - - in their home, and yet this person certainly celebrated it in her heart and in giving and receiving gits to/from others.

Her dad died about ten years ago, and I undersatand that they did start to introduce a wreath or something after that - - I don't know if they ever made it all the way to a tree or not.

Her mother died about two years ago, and she finally sold the house the three of them had occupied, bought a new condo for herself, and continues to live a solitary, but hardly useless life. Is it pathologic? Maybe, I don't know.

I mostly hear about her because she babysits my youngest sister's two small kids now.

My point is that I think that there are all kinds of families. Maybe one % of ALL families could benefit from a therapist. Maybe 40%. Maybe 99%.

Speaking about faith's cousin or other family members with such freakish language would make me uncomfortable if I witnessed in my own family.

This whole post is, to coin an American phrase, "so quaint".

Rex, thanks for the kind words, she is like your friend and very lovable. She looks at you with her big innocent eyes and you just want to help her.

Please read my Fearful Cousin question to give me any advice.

how old is she? Save her from her overprotective mother if she's over 18. Please.

eroz she is 40. read the Fearful Cousin thread she needs all the help she can get!

This is why I love Fodors Talk, you never know what you are going to read.

<Jocelyn steps up on her soap box>

Rex, I see your point, but I have also witnessed similar situations, in my extended family as well as in my professional career as a speech-language pathologist (more than once), and have a different take on it. In all the cases I know, the adult child has a disability, which is blown way out of proportion in the parents' mind. The parent feels they have to do every little thing for their "disabled child" and the poor thing can't learn to do anything on his/her own. This overprotectiveness causes unnecessary anxiety for all people involved and the words "obsessive" and "controlling" are very appropriate. This behavior is particularly harmful because the child has no reason to learn to communicate, as Mommy anticipates all their wants and needs. When Mommy's gone, either a surrogate needs to step in and take on the Mommy role, or the child is completely lost with no basic communication skills to get through life. When I see a young child who's just been diagnosed with a communication disorder, no matter how mild, one of the first things I do is assess the parents. If I see this pattern developing I try to nip it in the bud and explain to them why their "help" isn't always helpful in the long run. Faith's cousin may not have a true disability, but because of the traumatic experience that she had early in life, it sounds like the parents have taken a similar course. Certainly understandable, but definitely not helpful to anyone.

Rex, I'm glad that your family friend has managed to live a normal life under her circumstances, and I hope that Faith's cousin is/can as well, but this story sounds all too familiar to me. Faith, you say you want to "help her." Trust me, the best way to help her is to encourage her to make her OWN decisions instead of enabling the dependency she's so accustomed to.

And yes, of course, all of us could use at least a few hours of professional counseling!

<Jocelyn steps down from soap box>

Who needs soap operas when you have Fodors?

I have a photo of a vaporetto on my Web site with flotation devices, so that is definite. I would guess they have life jackets but am not sure.

However did I miss this endlessly entertaining thread?

Ah, the marvelous varieties of the dysfunctional family! Faith, you deserve an award for taking your cousin on this trip, and hopefully it will be the beginning of a less insular life for her. I would also choose the first class option and leave Venice for another trip. The main thing is to get this poor woman out there into the world and show her that there is life to be lived outside her parents' house. Her parents certainly do not have her best interest at heart by continuing to "take care" of their 40-year-old as if she were 17. Some of you may think it's "eccentric," but it sounds emotionally crippling to me.

Faith: Don't know why I didn't think of it before when reading this thread earlier, and actually don't know how much of an idea it will give you of what Venice is like, but here's a website for a webcam of the grand canal near the Rialto Bridge:

http://turismo.regione.veneto.it/webcam/index.htm

It's pitch black at the moment, but sometime tomorrow you should get a decent view.

I'm truly sorry about your cousin's situation and admire you for interceding. As an only child, I was treated like I was made of glass, but never to the extent you describe. Broke loose early on and had good relationships with my family thankfully. Have been a bit of a rebel ever since.

ok, Now I KNOW this is all a joke.
It has to be..at 40 she is going to listen to where her mother and father want her to go or not go?? No, I dont think so.

I think there is a made for TV movie called"Run, Bambi, run"! Her parents will not object..afterall, it's not a stag film.

Interesting how this story has evolved on the two threads.

When it started, cousin was maybe going to join Faith on Faith's trip to Italy, but they needed to know about life jackets on gondolas because cousin couldn't swim.

Soon, cousin turned out to be naive, Victorian, and sheltered in her parents' guest house (!) watching old movies every day. Not only couldn't she swim, she'd nearly drowned. The gondola issue was rendered moot by the fact that she was now too phobic to even go near canals because water might wash over her. (Presumably her parents carried her over puddles at home.) Calling Tennessee Williams.

The trip was no longer Faith's, but was being financed and directed by the parents of Bambi with her "big, innocent eyes."

I think we can all draw our own conclusions.

If it walks like a troll....

It's a spectacular one, if it is. A two-parter. And the best ones, you never really know.

Do I get co-screenwriting credits?

Rex: "Do I get co-screenwriting credits?"

And when do we get our royalty checks?

Before I go for the day: we are real people, who could make this up?

I was musing with my cousin about her joining me on a trip I was planning to take to Venice, her mother overheard us and put in her two cents of warnings.
I came here to ask about life jackets so I could tell her.

Then it all puffed up from there, Cousin told her father, they decided to pay for the trip and have it their way and I agreed, then he bought the tickets so we could go on her birthday, etc.

Anyway, thanks again, and bye for now.

All you people really got off on the wrong track here concerned about the naive and overprotected cousin.

I'm much more concerned about the clashing of the orange life jacket with her pink jogging suit! What if she's not wearing comfortable shoes when she falls off the gondola? And what if she leaves her healthy back bag back in the hotel? I'm finding this way too stressful. Please tell Cousin that she should skip this trip. I'll be too worried!

If one is to die of drowning, it would be difficult to find a more senic location.

My Italian is a little rusty, but I think that it was on my last gondola ride where a sign read "use seat cushion for flotation."

wesley, it's really no big deal. Everyone is entitled to a bad hair day. Holly doesn't really know me so I can see why she may have thought I doubted her word when, in fact, all I wanted was corroboration to Veniceword's report (which I had assumed to be true). This is simply the "reporter" in me and nothing more. I rarely trust only one source for any kind of information.

Thank you, Rex, for sending the Italian article. I read it and it translates as follows:

On November 21, 2003, a traghetto gondola capsized near the dock at San Toma. All 14 passengers, plus two gondolieri fell into the water when the gondola capsized. Two of the passengers were infants and one infant was trapped under the gondola and saved by one of the gondolieri.

The article also mentions the most serious gondola accident occurred on August 2, 1992 near the San Marco basin when a gondola capsized due to a wake wave caused by a motor boat. The gondola overturned and one American tourist died.

My friend in Venice went on to tell me that one of the gondolieri in this recent incident had been drunk and lost his job as a result of this accident and he has been blamed as the cause of the capsizing. The gondola did not exceed its passenger limit and the limit number has not changed. Every passenger received compensation from the insurance company that covers the traghetto business.

Terrific reporting, NYCFS. As far as I'm concerned, you are one of the few class acts on this board. Fodorites should be grateful for the quality information you provide. I know some are, including me.

PS...can't wait to read your Venice diary. I'm chomping at the bit.

I'm only surprised that San Toma ferry doesn't capsize more often!

Most people seem to stand - so it only takes one to lose their balance ...

Steve

Faith and her water fearfull cousin striking again? Why not to make butler to fetch Bambi if she will fall?
Oops, my bad, he may have something falling of his head and he;ll look stupid (or somthing)

Where are you Faith? I'm sure others will agree with me, I feel like you have become part of my life, or me part of yours.... mmmmm.... whatever! Anyway I miss reading your plans for your upcoming trip, specially Venice as I will be there soon. Please share more with us

Mischka, on the 24th, in the "Fearful Cousin" message string, Faith said she was "off pursuing happiness with an old flame for the rest of the week" and would be back before she left for her trip. I'm sure we all look forward to further details of her poor cousin, rich Uncle, and dear Orlando the personal retainer/bodyguard. Gives a bit of interest to the postings. Although, personally, I would like to hear more about her cousin's shirtless gardeners.

I know I am reading Fodors too much when my friend mentioned a person who is Norweigan and I thought of Faith's gardners - shirtless and holding spears! What an image, I couldn't very well explain it to my friend, I just chuckled to myself.
Ah the joys of being a Fodorite.

Just when I thought I've heard it all, here comes up this wonderful thread!!

Faina, dear, you were away and missed all the fun, but fortunately you have seen the thread and caught up. Now you must also read the "other" Faith threads. It will be interesting to see if Faith returns or was merely a figment of someone's imagination. If she's real, I hope she's having fun!

Hi, I've just got back from a 3 day break in Venice, life jackets appear to be non existent. Unfortunately while I was there, an accident occurred. A vaparetto and gondola collided, the family thrown into the Grand Canal with a lot of onlookers,
people jumped in to save the people but a child did die, couldn't have been much more than 18 months old. Been trying to find out where they came from but seems to be no information anywhere. What a tragic way for a holiday in such a perfect place to end.

How awful, bevcork. My heart goes out to the family for the loss of their child.

That reminds me of when we were in Cinque Terre in late April, 2002. The day after we hiked the trail south of Vernazza, a woman (apparently) slipped and then fell to her death on the same stretch. Everyone was talking about it that evening and they closed the trail for a few days after it happened.

On November 21, 2003, a traghetto gondola capsized near the dock at San Toma. All 14 passengers, plus two gondolieri fell into the water when the gondola capsized. Two of the passengers were infants and one infant was trapped under the gondola and saved by one of the gondolieri. . . .
My friend in Venice went on to tell me that one of the gondolieri in this recent incident had been drunk and lost his job as a result of this accident and he has been blamed as the cause of the capsizing. The gondola did not exceed its passenger limit and the limit number has not changed. Every passenger received compensation from the insurance company that covers the traghetto business.

Having taken a traghetto three times when we were there (thoroughly enjoying it each time), I'm surprised capsizing doesn't happen more often with so many people standing up.

I found it hard to believe that Venice has no sewage system, as it has always seemed clean when we were there. I looked it up and it is correct that there is no municipal sewage plant, but most residences have a sedimentation tank to eliminate the solids; the liquids are dumped into the water. Commercial establishments, however, are required to have individual treatment facilities, so the situation is far from perfect, but is also better than having no treatment at all. Apparently there is a lot of movement of water through the area, which prevents accumulation of pollution.

Also, many canals are about a meter deep, but some are much deeper, so you may or may not be able to wade ashore. The gondolas we saw had cushions which doubled as flotation devices.

I'm a sailor, and I evaluated the traghettos as unsafe because everyone was standing, so I sat down; no one complained. I don't swim, but I never felt endangered on the vaporettos or gondolas, other than that traghetto.

From what I recall she was run off the board by someone or a few. She posted a final goodbye to Fodors on one of the other theads.

I hope she is having fun too.

I found it Beatchick, topping

One of my guidebooks says there were about 200 war-related fatalities in Venice during WWII, not because of battle or bombing, but because with all the lights turned off, these unfortunate people fell into the canals.

Believe me, a lifejacket isn't going to help you avoid the contents of a Venice canal..it will just help you float in the soup for a longer innoculation period.

If I didn't know better I'd say the original post was a troll. Perhaps your cousin should have asked "her Mother" WHY she didn't teach her to swim a long time ago.

Topman, you're late to the party. faith has long since departed, accused one too many times of being a troll. Personally I didn't care, as her tales were so amusing and stimulated such varied response.

up with the classics

Been reading this entertaining thread. and I just want to jump in to point out that Bambina means "baby" in Italian.

Knowing my own family the varieties of dysfunctional families are numberless.

Ah, a classic.
Now where are the drunken mother and the family with the poodle?

I've just come back from a couple of days walking around Venice and I was quite surprised that there are no lifebelts by the canals - surely someone must fall in occasionally (how are they extricated?), on the other hand I was amazed at the care and concern shown by the waterbus operators on ensuring the safety of the old and infirm when getting on and off at the stops.
All the best
John

You wouldn't need a life jacket because you would die of a heart attack first.

There are buoys and life preservers on the Vaporetti....but I doubt that there are enough for a really full boat.

A gondola is expensive and really only a once while your there experience...not a way to transport yourself. I never saw anyone wearing a life preserver aboard a gondola.

I am reminded of that famous line in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid..."Drown? Are you kidding...the fall will probably kill you."

The waters are less polluted than they used to be but I would worry about what's still in there and certainly I wouldn't want to take a dip in the water.

couldn't help myself from topping some old humor for new posters here

ohmigosh! If I fell in that water, a life jacket wouldn't save me--I'd die from the gross-me-out factor.

Oh, geez, I'd forgotten how hysterical this thread was!

Thanks for the laugh!

Not sure about the gondolas, but at least on the vaporettos (and I'd be surprised if not on the gondolas, it's a pretty normal coast guard or whatever the Italian version is regulation to require them) there are life jackets, you just aren't required to wear them until you fall in the water. That said, I would think that gondolas capsizing is extremely rare (good way to lose business really fast) and wouldn't worry about it.

If you fall out of a boat in Venice, just stand up. The water is very shallow.

Larry J

I though Faine did it...topped it I mean. It is like fun from the past. What is the newest funny thread was? Were there any?

I'm topping it now... for Ziana, or what's her name now?

Definitely a classic, and with enough plot lines for a couple of daytime dramas.
Calling Tennessee Williams forsooth.

Sad to say that in Dec. of 2004 my parents decided against going on a gondola ride because of the lack of lifejackets. I could not convince her otherwise. I hope she makes it back to Venice someday.

When I was a child, I lived in an Italian Ghetto and the elders did not speak much English and they saved in their poor-payingh jobs to one day go back to visit Italy. One couple did eventually and while visiting Venice, some accident happened while on a gondola and they died. The bodies were returned home in the Italian coffins, the type we only saw in Dracula films. They wer also returned in clothes not their own, I was told. But their death and coffins became a curiosity, hundreds of people who never knew them lined the street to visit them at the wake.

*bookmark* for a rainy day

Here she is
http://tinyurl.com/yxkxrk