Language assistance

Why don't you post the names of the villages here? There's nothing some of us enjoy more than a good long discussion about French phonetics.

<<a good long discussion>>

aka food fight!



Best wishes,

Rex

A group of us did this 2 years ago. Great time. And don't worry, for the most part, we found the Burgundians would correct us or, along the canals, spoke a bit of English.
What route are you taking?

We are doing the Saone leaving from Scey sur Saone and ender up in St Leger with Locaboat. We did the Canal du Midi in 2001 and had a blast. Okay, if you are up for it here are some of the names that I don't know how to pronounce:

Scey-sur-Saone
Seurre
Couches
Chagny
Vougeot
La Rochepot
France-Comte
Aux- as in Auxonne or Semur-en-Auxois

Thanks so much!

Oh... the fun of taking a crack at these - - the problem being of course, that ordinary (American) English spelling does not really permit the representation of certain French sounds

For example, you just have to know what "u" sounds like - - essentially like the English word "ewe" sounds (more like an expression of revulsion - - "ew") - - for all practical purposes, one might write "yoo" - - but to avoid arguments, I will write u

Likewise, nasal vowels are difficult to represent - - "an" (as in France) or "en", as in Semur -en-Auxois sound like the replicated vowel sound in "Jean Valjean" in the musical Les Miserables. "on" sounds like the vowel in "don't" - - but with none of the "n" (nor the "t" of course) per se. I represent those sounds as ah(n) and oh(n)

Scey-sur-Saone

Say-su-sah-own (but sah-own is said quickly, as if one syllable)

Seurre

like "sur" (as in Big Sur) or "sir - - NOT sur - - rhymes with the French word for butter (beurre) - - "bur".

Couches

"koosh"

Chagny

sha-nyee

Vougeot

voo-zhoe - - where zh is the middle consonant sound in azure or pleasure

La Rochepot

lah roash-poe

France-Comte

frah(n)ss-k-oh(n)t - - not that comte, in this case rhymes exactly with the English word "don't" - - though the "n" sounds is not heard distinctly.

Aux- as in Auxonne or Semur-en-Auxois

the x -s an "ss" sound in front of a vowel in both cases here...

thus,

oass-uhnn

and

Suh-mue -ah(n)-oass-wah

There will surely be challenges to my representations - - and I have not visited any of these places, so I acnnot discount the possibility of regional exceptions to standard pronunciation.

Scey-sur-Saone = /say-syur-sone/ (the "yu" being the French "u" sound, which can be approximated by trying to say "oo" with pursed lips)

Seurre = /sir/

Couches = /koosh/

Chagny = /shah-nyee/

Vougeot = /voo-zhoh/

La Rochepot = /la rosh-poh/

France-Comte: Do you mean Franche-Comté? If so, /frahNsh-koN-tay/ (where N represents nasalization, and not an actual pronounced "n")

Aux- = /oaks/

Whoops... typo--- Semur was meant to have an "r" after the u - - thus

Suh-mur - - not Suh-mue...

this syllable sounds pretty much identical to English "pure"

I think you have problems with the g in vougeot. An acceptable apprach would be the j like in January

Thanks so much! I speak just enough French to get through the basics...food, room, directions, thanks, etc. but the majority of it was learned through language tapes in the car... at times the written word throws me a bit, but I am always willing to try! I have found that even if you completly destroy a word, most people are somewhat appreciative and willing to help you out. I am really looking forward to this trip- it has been 3 years since I have been to France and that is just too long!

I see I also omitted the "R" from "sur" in Scey-sur-Saone...

Thus...

Say-sur-sah-own

And as for the "j" in January - - most Americans pronounce that with a bit of a "dj" - - like the terminal consonant in "lodge" - - not like the "zh" in the example words I gave, or for "g" examples - - the second "g" in "garage", or the "g" in "lingerie" - - though some Americans give a "dg" to those words as well - - not (as I would prefer) - - gah-RAZH...

So, I stick with... voo-zhoe.

I agree with Rex about the "g" in Vougeot. I don't think the "a" in Saône is pronounced at all, however, and I would bet (but don't know for sure) that the "x" in Auxonne and Auxois is pronounced /ks/. No doubt someone who does know for sure (or claims to) will weigh in soon.

oui, the x reads ks in Auxone, Auxerre, ...

OK, I thought I'd stay out of this one but here are a couple of comments.

The 'g' in Vougeot is pronouced [zh], exactly like the 's' in pleasure or treasure in English. Vougeot = [voo-ZHOH]. The 'j' in January is not the same sound.

As for the 'x' in Auxois and Auxonne, my trusty Larousse pronunciation dictionary says:

Auxois = [oh-SWAH]
Auxonne = [oh-SUN]

The dictionary says it is a mistake to say [oh-KSUN] for Auxonne.

I know from personal experience that Auxerre is pronounced [oh-SEHR] in Auxerre but is often pronounced [oh-KSEHR] in other regions.

Thanks, ckenb. Any thoughts on Saône?

According to the Larousse pronunciation dictionary:

Saône = [SOHN] (with a long round O sound). It's one syllable.

Saône rhymes with Rhône [ROHN].

I might have to get that dictionary! Thanks again!

The dictionary gives pronunciations using the International Phonetic Alphabet. Its author is Alain Lerond, and it was published by Librairie Larousse in 1980. Maybe it's been updated since then. It's quite detailed, with 600 pages of words and proper names.

I used to teach French phonetics, way back when.

Well, this "food fight" was a lot more pleasant than the barroom brawl that's going on in the "London Pubs" thread.

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