Land v Waterways touring

Old Mar 14th, 2014, 11:12 PM
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Land v Waterways touring

Trying to decide which way to see Europe including Scotland and preferably Ireland also. The query is how much do you see on the river cruises v the organised tours on land, some of which do include a small waterways itinerary...would be interested to know which tours people got to see the most of each country visited and what the actual pace was? How much time is spent getting to a place v how much valuable time is spent there. We are willing to join a few tours together accepting that we may only get a snapshot of each place but needing that snapshot to be worthy of the time getting to it. A must is to see the Military Tattoo so August is the desired travel time or late July to catch it as well. Understanding that river cruising in a different experience, but for the $ value it is by far the most expensive way to see Europe...we are in our early 50's and never been to Europe before, we have done Asia as independent travellers and don't wish to do that again. Any advice is most welcome. Thanks
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Old Mar 15th, 2014, 12:06 AM
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How much time do you have? Europe is big. You can't see all of it in a month, maybe if you have a year or two. But then you'd have to deal with the Schengen rules and keep track of the days.

What is your budget? Some places in Europe are really expensive.

You mention river cruises. You can't do that everywhere in Europe, since there aren't decent rivers everywhere, so you can't really use it as a way to "see Europe". Parts of it, sure. And yes, they're expensive. I've looked at a few, but the cost was too high for me.

Most organized tours on land are very rushed and you sit on a bus for hours, going from one place to the next. The cheaper tour companies save money by putting people in hotels far from the centre of towns.
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Old Mar 15th, 2014, 12:08 AM
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I've been to Scotland and much of Europe as a solo independent traveler, and I've also been to Japan and northern China as a solo independent traveler. I would happily visit any of these places solo and independently again! That said, my personal experience has been that independent travel in Europe is generally far easier for Westerners than independent travel in the Orient. So I wonder: why have you decided to rule out independent travel?
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Old Mar 15th, 2014, 05:51 AM
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Like kja I have traveled independently in both Europe and Asia. I've also traveled to both areas on tours, and I have to say I much prefer independent travel. Certainly, if you want to experience the places you are visiting rather than just getting a quick look at the supposed highlights you will usually be better off on your own. It is true that some tours are better than others - smaller groups, central hotels, good food, time to explore, possibly later start times - but they are either much more expensive, or budget tours that put you in less comfortable hotels.

What was it about independent travel in Asia that turned you off? Europe is quite different, and travel in Europe is very easy in most places. In the UK you won't even have a language barrier.

A river cruise - which generally means the Rhine and/or the Danube, or a VERY expensive barge on a handful of French rivers - would be easy, but would severely limit your time in the places you presumably came to see. A cruise that included Edinburgh would be a sea cruise, and if you are on a big ship it will dock some distance from the city.

Note that the Edinburgh festival is VERY popular. You would need to book well ahead.
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Old Mar 15th, 2014, 05:54 AM
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Generally river cruises are very expensive and typically the time touring - versus just sitting on a boat - is very limited.

Bus tours also typically spend a lot of time getting places versus actually doing and seeing things. And the lower cost ones are usually very long days on a bus.

If you can do a river cruise very much depends on where you are - not available in a lot of places.

It would help a lot if you wold provide some basic info:

Who and how many is "we"?
What are your interests?
Which countries are you most interested in?
How much time do you have?
What is your budget? (Moderate or average don;t help - you need to tell us is you have X $ of euros or whatever for how may weeks)
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Old Mar 15th, 2014, 06:48 AM
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1. How much time do you have?
2. What do you REALLY want to see/do?
3. How many people in your group? Are you a family group?
4. How comfortable are you with other languages?

We have done both land and river, independent travel and tours - I much prefer the independent style when I'm not intimidated by language i.e. Greek, Russian or Chinese - can't read the signs fast enough. My suggestion is to pick one area and spend a decent amount of time so you can adjust your time to what you want to do, not just tick things off a "must see" list. Europe has been around a long time and will be there next year. It's great to go again, see what there wasn't enough time for on your first visit.

I think an independent trip to Ireland is a super introduction to European travel - easy to drive on your own (once you shake the left side fear), very easy to understand the language (easier than Scotland), reasonable distances between traditional highlights so you're not drive weary, wonderful people, fun, beautiful. Do the Edinburgh Tattoo at the end - by then you'll by more comfortable on your own. But remember, it will be very crowded. Here you might consider a tour package taht includes the Tattoo to make sure you have seats, hotel, food reservations.

Another easy area to do on your own is Netherlands/Belgium. Here you can rely on good transportation systems to get where you want to go and at reasonable prices. Simple transport maps can help if you are fearful of potential language problems.

In major tourism areas you can be independent but still use day tours for specific attractions if you want to take advantage of guide/translations.

River cruises look more expensive but remember that your food is all included as well as entertainment. Some cruises include day tours for your ports (some may be additional cost) but your free time is probably limited. The cruising portion is usually done at night so you aren't missing anything - unless one of the villages you're sailing by is where you wanted to visit. River cruises do provide a commentary regarding the surrounding arrea if you are cruising during the day. A river cruise IS a relaxing way to travel.
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Old Mar 15th, 2014, 07:14 AM
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If you are going to take river or canal based cruises stay away from those marketed at the US market as the prices are daunting to say the least. Note that you will find most river cruises full of the "more mature" market.

Most river cruising outside the Central German/Low countries/France you are looking small boats and high expense and,of course, boats move pretty slow.

It is, however a great way to see some very scenic places but of course it is not visiting the country, merely drifting by it.

However, europe does have some excellent public transport systems and in these you have to mingle with the locals, eat what they eat and smell what... you get the picture.
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Old Mar 15th, 2014, 08:48 AM
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You only specifically mention Scotland and Ireland. Not much in the way of river cruising in either one -- there are sone canal and river trips in parts of the UK but none that would gets you anywhere near Edinburgh or the Tattoo.

There are river cruises in parts of continental Europe - they are comfortable but tend to be expensive and w/ sightseeing limited to specific areas where the river ports are. but again - no where near Scotland/the Tattoos or Ireland.

There are very expensive sea cruises around the British Isles - but they only give you short shore excursions in each place. Since the ports are often distant from the 'sites' these shoer excursions can be very expensive.

It sounds like you really want a land tour of the UK to include the Tattoo - most on here prefer to travel independently so many will not be that encouraging. I won't say one way or the other - w/o knowing what it was exactly you didn't enjoy about traveling on your own in the past. Are you up in years and can't handle the luggage etc? Or was it other things?
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Old Mar 15th, 2014, 08:57 AM
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The Tattoo overlaps the Edinburgh Arts Festival, a VERY busy time of year there. If traveling on your own, you should be looking right now for a hotel for your time in Edinburgh.

Otherwise there are tours that include Edinburgh and the Tattoo.

Fodors' forum is full of independent travelers, not really the right place to get tour info/recommendations.
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