JimmyPet

Call me ambitious or call me crazy, but I'm trying to plan a three-week family trip to europe. Not wealthy enough for 1st class, but not planning to hostel it every night either. Nonetheless, because there are six of us, the trip will require a certain frugality.

Here's the gang: mom and dad, mid-forties, last time in europe - 1990 (pre-kids); son age 16, son age 14, daughter age 11; son age 7.

I feel that June 2007 is probably our last chance to travel as a family unit, given the age diversity. Plan is to depart right after school's out (approx June 14), return 3 weeks later, in time for summer baseball tournaments.

With that as a preface, I'd like to initiate a discussion: can it be done, safely and enjoyably? Are there any "must do" and "must avoid" recommendations out there from experienced family travellers?

My last european venture was an alpine circuit - started at Munich, rented a car and took off for Salzburg for a few days, a few more in the Austrian countryside, then an off the beaten path journey over the alps to the Italian Lakes region for a few days, then 3-4 days way up in the swiss alps, followed by some time in the Alsace region of France, some time for a spa treatment at Baden-Baden in the Black Forest, later to the medievel city of Rothenburg, ending with a final few days back in Munich.

That trip was safe and fun and I could easily see my family handling a repeat - BUT what about Vienna? Budapest? Venice? Prague? Berlin? Paris? the Riviera? the Rhine? the Danube? By avoiding the big cities (except the one I fly in and out of) will I miss the best of Europe or the worst?

That's probably enough to get started. I welcome accolades as well as criticisms. Speak your minds (type them, actually)!

LoveItaly

Hi JjimmyPet, sure it can be done. I would reserve at lodgings where you can get two rooms at each location. Put your sons in one room and have your daughter in your room would be the best I guess.

I don't see any safety problems and with taking everyones interest into consideration I would think this would be quite an enjoyable trip for you and your family. Have the children due some research on the web..get them involved with the trip. That should add to everyones fun.

I can't respond to all of the locations you are thinking of going to as I don't have the knowledge but I am sure many Fodorite's will be able to.

I will say Venice is usually so enjoyed by young ones. I would, if you plan on staying in Venice, make reservations just ASAP. You will find lots of information here for "not over the top moneywise" accomodations. Venice is not inexpensive. From what I have read Paris hotel rooms can be acquired for less money and most children/teens seem to really love Paris.

Not staying in large cities will no doubt keep you costs down.

I would go to places that have enough to offer all age groups. In my experience kids don't want to just wander through small towns and countrysides generally speaking.

And I wouldn't jump from place to place with a hurried intinerary. With six people it takes longer for packing, unpacking, bathroom time etc. A lot different than just two people travelling together.

How fun!! I am sure you will get some fabulous thoughts here.

Food,

namaka

JimmyPet, your trip could defintely be done.

Our family of four spent 4 weeks in Europe from mid June to mid July.

Although you have 2 more children, you are planning your trip for 3 weeks compared to my 4.

I guess the biggest question is what is your budget? We did not go first class, nor did we do hostels. We found apts that were as much or cheaper than what 2 hotel rooms would've been. We flew from country to country on Easy-jet. We bought a lot of souvenirs and saw a lot of sights, but didn't spend a lot of money on going out to fancy dinners every night. We cooked and ate alot of sandwiches to make our money go farther. We stayed away from rental cars as much as possible and used public transportation. All in all, our trip still costs around 15K.

$1100.00 each airfare (high season from Ca.)
approx. $1000.00 6 nights Paris apt rental (7th arr.- 1 bedroom)
approx. $1300.00 11 nights Lisbon apt
rental (very nice, large 1 bedroom)
approx. $900.00 for 9 nights cottage on a working farm in Riseley, England
(two bedroom)
$50.00 each one way ticket from Paris to Lisbon (Easy-Jet)
$50.00 each one way ticket from Lisbon to England.

These were the biggest expenses although there were a few others. I hope this gives you some ideas. Where you travel does make a big difference though. England, for example is the worst. In fact, our last three nights were in London (2) and one night at the Sheraton Heathrow. Those three nights for one room totaled approx. $650.00 and they were pretty good deals, I thought.

With regards to safety- I felt extremely safe, so no worries there. Just be aware of your surroundings and the areas you are in.

Lastly, only you can decide where it is you want to go. Once you decide, there is so much information here to help you.

Good Luck!

lucy_d

You have asked a lot of questions, and I'm sure you will receive much helpful feedback from the generous posters on this board.

For detailed insight on traveling with kids, search this forum for Travelgirl's Trip of a Lifetime. Plan to spend several hours reading it over several sittings, unless you get hooked and can't stop reading it.

Hope this helps.

wego

JimmyPet,

We spent four weeks in Europe June 06 with our then 10 year old daughter and 12 year old son.

Your trip is very doable.

We stayed in some very nice hotels and some more reasonable. We paid 1100 pp for airfare. Our trip came in around $21,000. We vistied Paris, Germany (Rhine, Black Forest, Romantic Road, Bavaria), Switzerland (Gruyere, Zermatt) and Italy (Venice, Tuscany, Amalfi Coast, Rome).

Big cities vs country towns is really a personal preference.

We did Paris, Rome and Venice. But other than those we stayed in smaller towns. This is where the children really get a feel for life in another country.

Do not plan too many places. I know our list looks long but we were there 31 nights. We generally stayed three to four nights per location except for a couple one nighters is Germany moving along the Romantic Road.

Do your serious touring in the morning and try to plan a fun activity for the afternoon. For example, in the black forest area of Germany all the small towns had community pools. Our kids loved swimming for an hour in the heat of the day.

We were in Italy for the last two weeks of June till July 4th. It was hot. Make sure you have a hotel with a pool. (except Rome, that might be difficult)

Decide what your goal is before you make reservations. And, keep your goal in mind as you plan.

Our goal was for our kids to get a taste of life in other countries and see some historical sites. We didn't feel we had to do and see everything.

But I have to say even though both our children really love history and art they are still children and can only go to so many museums and churches.

You want to leave them with the feeling that they cannot wait to go back.

You better start planning today if you want to go in June 07.

Good Luck

christieCA

My parents took the four of us for five weeks when we were 16 (me), 13, 8, and 2. That was the trip that got me hooked for life on travel! I don't know the costs, but I do know that we were very budget conscience and stayed at very basic hotels. We did get two rooms and we even camped in a few locations (which as kids, we LOVED).

We went to Rome, Florence, Venice, Nice, Paris, London, and to visit family in Ireland. It was June/July that we traveled and I just remember loving Italy so much and counting down the days until I could go back (365 as it turned out).

I have greatly enjoyed most of the places you have listed and think that your family would enjoy them. I think an ideal trip would be a mix of big cities and small/country, but any way I don't think you can lose.

I think it may be easiest for you if you choose three locations and rent an apartment for a week in each of those. That is what I would do.

Have fun!

enzian

What a wonderful experience this will be for your family. My extended family has done this in various combinations of ages and group size, mainly in Italy, Switzerland, and France. It definitely "can" be done safely and very enjoyably.

I'm going to make a suggestion that combines several of the ideas here. I don't think you can visit all the places you mentioned and keep your sanity, but you can have a nice mixture of city and small towns, and visit several countries. You would travel by train the whole way----the kids will love it, and the one-way rental of a vehicle large enough for the six of you would be scary.

Fly into Venice, and out of Paris. Venice is perfect for kids---lots of traffic-free space, amazing things to see and do. And there is even a very nice public pool for hot afternoons. Venice will probably be the most expensive place you visit, but hopefully someone can help you find a short-stay apartment; that is much less expensive than hotel rooms. From Venice, work your way up to Paris, going either through Austria and Germany, or through Switzerland. One possibility would be to take the night train from Venice to Vienna, then across Austria and into Switzerland, and up to Paris. Or from Venice to the Lake District, and up to Lucerne (only 2 3/4 hours by train from either Locarno or Lugano). The three younger children will travel free in Switzerland, and that is a huge plus.

If you choose the Switzerland route I can suggest some family-friendly accomodations that won't break the bank.
Also, if you choose Switzerland, there are some fast TGV trains that will whisk your family to Paris from Bern or Geneva in a short time.

Paris--what more is there to say? You can definitely find a short-stay (3 or 4 nights) apartment there. One place to try, that we have used with good results, is
www.VacationInParis.com

I'll stop here and let others have their say. . .

MRand

JimmyPet - absolutely go for it! Here's our very long trip report of a last minute trip to Italy for five of us, including similarly aged teens, in Italy in 2005:

http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...p;tid=34645606

Magical was a pretty apt description.

fun4all4

Absolutely it can be done, safely and enjoyably!! There are a number of us here on Fodor's that have traveled with our families in Europe. Our family has found that a mix of cities with smaller towns works well for us.

In addition to the mentioned reports by MRand and Travelgirl, some others come to mind as well ... check out posts by jgg, kswl, missypie, dina4, anamaria, and the go family (ms_go and mr_go) - this is just a sample of the many great reports. I have also attached the link to our most recent trip with our boys, 12 and 15, from last summer. We went to Switzerland and Northern Italy where we hiked in the Alps, spent time in Milan, enjoyed Limone on Lake Garda (including lots of swim time) and ended with a magical few days in Venice.

http://tinyurl.com/oh6e8


Almost anyplace you might want to visit in Europe can be experienced as a family. Once you narrow down the places you'd most like to visit, then people will provide lots of great suggestions for those areas. Also, think about your particular interests and those of your kids - are they into theatre, architecture, soccer/football/calcio, history, rock climbing, etc.....? For example, when we were in London we visited some of the "must see" sites like Tower of London and the British Museum, but we also went to a football match and on a rock n'roll tour since we are soccer and music fans.

So, now that you know it can be done, you can start planning. One warning: the more you start considering, the more you will want to see and do. Try to resist the temptation to do it all in one trip - it is less expensive to stay in several places than to pay for multiple train and plane rides. Also, I know that our kids love to experience lots of new things, but also cherish some "down time" to swim, read, "veg out" listening to their ipods or whatever.

I hope that helps get you started. Feel free to ask questions or "think out loud" as you come up with ideas. Welcome to Fodor's and Happy Travels!

JimmyPet

WOW - 8 excellent replies in a little over 4 hours. I obviously stumbled onto right site while doing some european research last evening. I'll try to reply to each of you separately, but if I miss anyone, please don't take it personally.

LoveItaly, you made some excellent points about Venice in particular - if I had to have any regrets about my past trips to europe(which I don't), it would have to be skipping Venice. Follow-up question: What would you say about renting an apartment for a week on Lido at the beach and using the vaporetto to traverse back and forth into venice? I know nothing about Lido, except that there seem to be some reasonably priced apartments there, so any thoughts on that area/subject would be helpful.

suze

Why not get each kid involved in the planning right from the start? In picking the places they want to go (each kid gets to pick one place maybe?). I think that way you have "buy in" and start building enthusiasm for the trip from the get-go.

enzian

Generally people are cautioned against staying on Lido just to save money, but in your case, with a whole week, it might work well. Although there are a couple of fancy resort hotels there, Lido is mainly a residential neighborhood---less expensive housing than Venice proper. The beach is not particularly beautiful, but provides lots of open space for the kids to run around (although parts may be private; we were there in April when all was deserted so you couldn't tell). It would definitely give you the experience of really living in an Italian neighborhood. . . but it is not really Venice. But before you decide, get some recommendations for apartments in Venice proper, and compare the price. And don't forget to factor in the cost of all the vaporetto tickets you would need if staying on Lido.

On another topic---I asked our daughter, who was 11 when we spent a week in Paris, what she liked best and least about the experience. She said the best were Versailles and the Parisian bakeries---chocolate croissants in particular. She also said she liked having an apartment so we could shop for food in the local market and cook at home. She didn't really like going out to the restaurants---I think she felt too much pressure in figuring out what to order (even when we helped out), and she was sometimes disappointed. This is a girl who ordinarily loves to eat good food in nice restaurants, and has very sophisticated tastes. She loves dining out in Switzerland, and here at home. But for some reason, she didn't like Parisian restaurants. Just her take on it.

kwren

I agree with suze. I spent 3 weeks in Switzerland, France and Austria this summer with 3 of my kids. They have heard about our European trips for years, so I asked each one where they would like to go based on all our discussions and looking at pictures. My daughter chose Paris, my 13 year old son said he wanted to visit ice caves with sculptures in a glacier. My 17 year olds had been to Europe a few times with us already so he just wanted to see something new. (He did love Rome and Venice from a trip with me 3 years ago.)

Paris was easy obviously. My son was remembering some pictures we had of the ice palace at the top of the Jungfrau in the Bernese Oberland, so we planned 5 days of mountains and hikes staying in Lauterbrunnen.

Once the areas had been chosen, we got some books out of the library and everyone was asked to read and make a list. I told them the top 2 things from each area would be included if at all possible. We ended up having the best time and everyone was proud to have helped in the planning.

Another thing that helped me was that I clearly remembered Paris and Switzerland from trips I took when I was 12. The things I loved from back then were the things I imagined any 12 year olds would love so I could incorporate them into our travels. I especially remembered going to the tops of mountains by train and cable car and wanted to give my own kids those memories too.

I recommend alternating city and country to give relaxation and hustle and bustle in enjoyable amounts. We did the Bernese Oberland, then Salzburg, a bit of the Austrian countryside (for a day), then 4 days in the countryside outside Paris, then finally 5 days in Paris. We allowed for down time everywhere, even if it was taken at a cafe watching people go by. We left our daily itinerary loose and at times the kids said they were too tired to do the day's plans (like go up the Eiffel Tower one particular night.) I do recommend taking advantage of good weather though. We did postpone the Eiffel Tower, and it proceeded to rain every day after that so when we did go up, it was in the pouring rain. Let the kids opt out of museums for any given time, but do the weather-dependent sites as soon as you can.

My kids loved staying in the European hotels. The tiny elevators, the huge poofy quilts, the huge breakfasts, miniscule balconies, spiral stairs, hearing the foreign languages. It was all part of the fun for them.

Enjoy the planning - it's almost as much fun for the kids as the trip - and have a great vacation!

LoveItaly

Hello Jimmy, well you have certainly received some good thoughts, I knew you would!

Jimmy, IF you could find an apartment in Venice proper that falls within your budget I believe you would find that the best. Venice is small and very walkable so don't feel like you have to stay around the Piazza San Marco area, in fact it is best that you don't IMO so that you can avoid the hordes of daytrippers.

IF you can only find an affordable apartment on the Lido well I certainly would say that you will still have a wonderful time. It is just that you will have to keep getting back and forth to Venice proper, so do take that into consideration when figuring out your Venice budget. If you can find an apartment in Venice proper you could let your two oldest sons explore on their own some of the time. They no doubt would enjoy that.

Wow, wish I was one of your kids, lol.

And of course as you have no doubt already taken into consideration, an apartment would certainly cut down on your food costs. And in that Venice doesn't have food that is quite as wonderful as other parts of Italy and in that it tends to be expensive that would be a good thing. Even keeping cold drinks in the refrigerator would work well with children.

I look forward to hearing how this trip will evolve. Best wishes that you and your family will have fun planning it.

fun4all4

I agree with LoveItaly. If you can find an apartment in Venice proper, the evenings are magical and the older ones can stroll a bit or you can leave them at the apt/hotel to go out for a bit with your wife. The trip back and forth to the Lido could be inconvenient for some. Others will disagree. Also, you may not want or need a full week in Venice - with 4 kids I think there are other cities that might be worth more time (like Rome or Paris or London).

If you like the idea of being by the water, then Venice may not be the best time during your trip to do that. Instead, you could work in some time on one of the Italian Lakes (I believe Garda may be the only one suitable for swimming plus it has Gardaland amusement park which may or may not interest you), the Amalfi Coast or the French Riviera.

Sorry, kwren, I forgot to mention your report which was wonderful! As she and Suze mentioned, ask the kids! Some really get into the planning and research! While mine did not so much (especially older son), they did have some ideas of things they'd love to see. I was totally surprised when my older son mentioned that he'd always wanted to see Venice - who knew?

This summer, 3 of us (me, DH and 13 yo son) will be going to France (our older son will be in Israel for 5 weeks). We will spend a week in the Dordogne visiting prehistoric caves, canoeing on the river, and exploring castles. Then, we will spend 5 nights in Paris. France, Italy, and Austria/Switzerland could all be great family choices. Actually, anywhere is Europe could be great with a family depending on your wants and interests - it is just lots of families start with some combo of those so many happy reports mention those places.

kwren

no problem about my report, fun, and thanks! it's nice to hear from time to time that someone enjoyed a trip report.

I went to Dordogne about 6 or 7 years ago with my (now) 17 year old son. We loved it. Highlights other than the caves and prehistoric museum were Rocamadour, perched down the side of a cliff, Eagle Rock and Monkey Jungle (where a frisky monkey sent me screaming down a path after jumping on my back!) That was the best entertainment of the trip for my son!

JimmyPet

Your thoughtful replies have been wonderful, I already feel bad that with holiday visits, etc, I've had so little computer time to respond - except for this morning, when I ended up reading travelgirl's entire vacation log! Lucy D, you warned me it would be addicting, and you were right!

I will certainly return to these posts in the coming weeks, not just for the advice but also to share my own european experiences from past trips, as well as to shed some light on our current planning process that might end up being helpful to other trip planners, or at least amusing to the more experienced travellers.

Best wishes to all for a happy and healthy new year!

pantelia

JimmyPet, how wonderful for your family! I'm sure that you will have a fabulous time.

When my kids (15, 11 and 11 at the time) went to England in 2005, they helped with a big portion of the planning. I had been several times, and it was their first trip. We went to the library, checked out all the books we could find, and they went to work. They chose the things they most wanted to do, and I worked the itinerary around that. We had planning meetings and they loved being involved. They each had one place or thing in London that was theirs, and when we visited that site, they were in charge of telling the rest of us about it.

Apartments would probably work well for you, more room for starters, if and when everyone starts getting on each other's nerves (and they probably will) you'll at least have a room that someone can go to for a break! Having a kitchen will also cut down on costs quite a bit, especially with 6 of you! Plus, going to local markets will add to the adventure!

I look forward to following along as you plan your journey! Best of luck...keep us updated!

travelgirl2

JimmyPet - Best of luck planning your trip. Planning and anticipating is half the fun. I look forward to hearing more about your trip. - Travelgirl

Barbara_in_CT

This sounds like a great trip for everyone.

Once you have settled on your itinerary, check the hostels first. I know that in Salzburg the St. Sebastian is clean, quiet and well-located.

The Girl Guide Chalet in Adelboden in Switzerland is also a good place for families but reservations need to be made well in advance.

Once you have found the places where you can save, that leaves you with a little more for the other places. It might be possible, in small towns, for the kids to stay in a hostel and mom and dad can find a little romantic spot near by. I can guarantee you that the kids will love hostels although you do need to check them well for safety since they are still young to be on their own.

Make sure everyone can handle their own luggage and has done their own research on the places you will be going.