You can usually snag discount train tickets online, but it's way too early for June tickets.

In Rome, you might want to get the Roma Pass, but will depend on how long you are staying and what sites you plan to visit.
http://www.romapass.it/?l=en

There is a similar pass for the Naples/Sorrento/Amalfi coast area. The 3 day tutta la regione card includes transport.
http://www.campaniartecard.it/

The Florence Card is overpriced and you really don't need transportation in Florence.

Thanks for that info. Everyone keeps telling me we are travelling to the most expensive countries, any idea how much to allocate for food?

Your food budget will have LOTS of variables - how often you cook/eat in, what sorts of food you like, even whether you drink soft drinks or not (Sodas tend to be smaller and very expensive).

Maybe go at it from a different direction . . . What is your budget/how much do you have to spend? Then divide that by your 30 days

Yes - you are visiting some very expensive places.

Hi AHansen,

In general, a normal restaurant meal in Switzerland will cost around 30-50 chf per person, then add on the beverages.

To keep meal costs low in Switzerland, here are some tips --

Eat your main meal at lunchtime, and eat from the fixed-price menu. Those lunch-time entrees can be 10 chf cheaper than the same thing at dinner. Then at dinnertime, get some picnic items from a grocery store -- fresh bread, cheeses, dried ham, German yogurts, Swiss chocolates, and a small bottle of wine or bottles of water. Then enjoy your picnic at a scenic spot.

Eat at the cafeterias at the Manor department stores or the large Coop. There is one in Vevey, near Montreux.

The grocery stores also sell good prepared meals or sandwiches, and you can eat that once or twice a week.

Have fun as you plan!

s

When I travel to Italy, my daughter does all of the cooking. We shop at the outdoor food markets and the local grocery.

Florence has a great marketplace (close to the Duomo) with all sorts of precooked foods. I could have eaten there for a week and still not have had my share. Very inexpensive.

We usually eat out twice a week and nothing too expensive. We would rather extend our stay than pay for expensive meals at restaurants.

We have always rented apartments and stayed in one location for a week at a time at four different locations for a total of one month of our beloved Italy.

Not sure how tight your budget might be, but if you're looking to economise in London, don't shop at department stores.

For London (if self-catering), look for regular supermarkets and their ready-meal package deals (around £10 for two portions); and for lunch, at sandwich bars and chains like Pret A Manger (roughly, around £8 a head for a sandwich or soup, dessert and drink).

Be careful of all-in tourist passes sold by commercial providers. Look at the regular deals offered by the local public transport operators themselves (in London, NEVER pay cash per ride - all fares are set to encourage you to use the Oyster prepayment card). www.tfl.gov.uk.

I am echoing those above who recommend picnicking...if not for dinner at least for lunch. We do this all the time. We have had great picnics in some very scenic settings enjoying it more than sitting in a corner of a restaurant.

In Switzerland look for the Migros stores. Migros stores are a cooperative owned predominantly by their customers so the prices are low compared to many other stores and chains...about the sames as in the US.

In Italy you will find alimentari everywhere. They are small, typically family owned, grocery stores. You can pick-up a lunch for two for €10...€15 with wine.

Also, when we are in Switzerland we stay in the least expensive room we can find. They are all nice and clean so we have never been disappointed.

Another budgeting point about London: I don't eat out that often, but an average dinner and drinks in a not very swanky neighbourhood restaurant, say, isn't likely to leave you much change out of £25, though there are cheaper options - in central London, for example, you could try the Stockpot, which has a couple of restaurants in the West End.

items that can really eat up your budget are things like coffee and cold drinks drunk in a cafe.

if you are staying in apartments, minimise this by buying large bottles of your favourites, then decant them into small ones to take with you during the day', and only drink tea and coffee in the apartment.

also, look for prix fixe menus that are more common at lunch-times - sometimes they include drinks which is even better.

Eat breakfast in the apartment - one of you pops out for croissants and bread while the other makes the coffee, and add some cheese/ham/eggs to it if you want to snack at lunch time and have a bigger meal in the evening.

in Italy, look for the deli department of a supermarket or a rosticceria which will often have cheap dishes that you can take out or eat in.

don't buy too much food at once for your apartment - you probably won't eat it and it;ll be a pain to have to take it to the next place or worse still, throw it away. most europeans buy little and often - a good idea for your too.

hope you have a great trip!

Nice trip but you have picked expensive venues---as you must know. The best way to save is to eat in at night.

Here are some things that DH and I do to keep our food costs down when travelling: Packages of oatmeal and granola bars are easy to pack and we always toss some in our suitcase (even when we travel with carryon only). They are great for a quick snack or breakfast. Take along snacks such as nuts, dried fruit etc to snack on when you are on the train or bus. Carry an empty water bottle with you from home and refill as you go. I also carry a few pieces of plastic cutlery in case we buy some bread, cheese etc and have a picnic during our day trips. We try to eat breakfast in our room (unless it is provided), have a light lunch (either pack a picnic or purchase items to make a picnic lunch along the way) and then treat ourselves to dinner out.

As the above poster mentioned, there are expensive venues, especially Switzerland. You have chosen somewhat three similar destinations: Montreux, Lucerne, and Lugano which are all lake and mountain destinations. In order to control cost in the food area, you need to do take away and picnic meals. However, for me it is a pity to do this for all meals at places where food is the venue, such as Paris or Italy.
The transportation require forethought. Booking advance non-refundable tickets helps your budget if you can stick to the dates. The trick is knowing just how long you need to book them and where to book them. Start reading www.seat61.com as it is an extensive site.
For London-Paris by Eurostar, you want to snag tickets as soon as they are available, 120 days before the trip using www.eurostar.com. For example today,the London-Paris, the cheapest ticket for Nov 1 departure is $226, but for March 3 departure it is $63. So you pay several times by procrastinating until the last minutes.
French rail segments also have significant advance ticket savings via www.tgv.com or www.voyages-sncf.com. Italian segments also have savings high speed train. But one last minutes saving is achieved by not using high speed trains - if you have time but not budget.
Swiss rail is a tough one as it is expensive no matter how you do this. Compounding the complexity is that you have do significant computation to determine which pass is worth getting. There is no easy answer like getting advance tickets.

Like Snowflake, I like to have some instant oatmeal and my immersion heater. It not only saves money but I like to have breakfast handy.

You're staying in apts so you'll be shopping in grocery stores and markets so that's going to save money.

I'm not overly attached to food so I'm not missing out on anything I love by not going for great meals in restaurants. Frankly, sitting in a restaurants bores me.

That said, don't give up something you love because you're trying to save money.

If money is a major concern, cut down your itinerary. I would not want to go anywhere if I were limited in what I could do because I didn’t want to spend money. I never really want to spend money but I don't want to penny pinch my way out of a good time because of money.

It sounds as if you're trying to crowd as much in as possible in the 30 days. It seems sensible but not if it's causing you to tighten your budget so much you won't get to enjoy the place you've traveled so far to see.

You can save substantially by:

1) not going to so many differnt places
2) organizing your train tickets far in advance (except from city to city in Italy)

Sorry I can't help on food - restaurant meals and cafe snack are one of the reasons we travel and it costs what it costs. And while we often do very casuale places (local sandwich shop or small cafe) for lunch (and in Switz even this will be expensive) we're not going to spend our vacation with a premade thermos and bottle of water on a park bench.

However, we each have differnt things we spend on.

If food is the reason you're going, cut down on your cities or days you'll be gone.

>>>2) organizing your train tickets far in advance (except from city to city in Italy)<<<

There are big discounts for advance purchase tickets on the fast train in Italy if you order online (starting 120 days out).

>>>Swiss rail is a tough one as it is expensive no matter how you do this. Compounding the complexity is that you have do significant computation to determine which pass is worth getting. There is no easy answer like getting advance tickets.<<<

A Swiss Pass may be your best bet, but there are also advance purchase discount tickets between countries. For Switzerland/Italy as little as 25chf (Go fare on Swiss site and Smart fare on Italian site) on the EC trains such as Zurich/Geneva/Basil to Milan/Venice. It would depend on your schedule if any of these will be beneficial. If departing Switzerland, purchase on the Swiss website. You can select a station in Switzerland to pick up the ticket. This link explains the sale fare.
http://www.trenitalia.com/cms/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=46f699e8e609a110VgnVCM1000003f16f90aRCRD

Essential money saver: A good corkscrew! (probably can't carry-on)

Do research and budget ahead for "sites" which range from free to costly. For example, Tower of London £18, British Museum, free, both wonderful. Top of Eiffel Tower for Paris view, 14€, view from Sacre Coeur de Montmartre, free and no lines.

For many sites and museums, booking ahead online can save usually 1-2£ or € or more and save lots of time.

IMO, depending on your interests, admission prices can really add up.

When staying in apartments, assuming 25-30% more than we would spend at home works for us PLUS 2-3 splurges per week.

Ah, but you can buy a corkscrew for 2€!

True, K., no need to bring one.

I have a drawer full of corkscrews at home as we buy one each time we get to Italy and since we check our bags on the homeward trip, I can bring them back! A relatively modest souvenir!

A couple of thoughts on how to manage budgets - most European cities have a vastly greater array of free attractions than in the USA. For example in London, most museums are free as are many other attractions - one good resource for some 'free' ideas in London is http://londonunveiled.com/category/free-activities/ as is http://www.fodors.com/world/europe/england/london/feature_30007.html - in fact Fodors probably has similar articles for the other places you are going - I'm just most familiar with London.
As to meals, note that in most of Europe taxes and tips/service are included in the price - so it may appear more expensive at first, but when you consider that in some US states another 10% sales tax, and another 15% tip is added to the bill its not that dissimilar.
However, one great technique for controlling food costs AND getting a local feel is to attend the street markets - London has street markets almost daily somewhere - though the big ones, like Borough Market, Broadway Market, Brick Lane and Notting Hill are on weekends - food is much more reasonable at these places. Paris and other large cities will have similar markets - just ask around.

Some really helpful information, Thanks Guys. I know we will be craming alot in but we are travelling from Australia & the 22hr flight & cost is enough for us to know we won't have the chance to come back in a hurry.

I'll keep an eye our for the cheap train tickets on the net, the travel agent said they will book the William Tell Express & Golden Pass train in switzerland.

The picnic idea will be great & i'll make sure i pack a cork screw,plastic utensils & water bottles, thanks snowflake. Is the water ok to fill up from the tap?? My niece is in London & said the water is gross & has gone through so many kidneys before it gets to you. What about in Italy?

I would not have thought a cup of coffee or a cold drink would be so expensive, so will be prepared.

What about tours in Paris & Rome is their deals to buy prior or just line up in the que?

Really appreciate everyones help
Cheers
Alison

Is the water ok to fill up from the tap?? My niece is in London & said the water is gross & has gone through so many kidneys before it gets to you. What about in Italy?>>

the water throughout europe is perfectly safe to drink. opinions vary as to whether it tastes good, which is presumably why the bottled water manufacturers remain in business.

the museum pass for Paris and the Roma pass [if you can find one to buy] may not save you much money, but they will save you lots and lots of your precious time, and probably mean that you see places that you might not have bothered with otherwise.

They work differently - the Roma pass lasts for 3 days and gives you free access into the first 2 attractions you visit - so if you work it so that you go to the Colosseum [Forum and palatinate on the same ticket so all 3 count as one] and, say, the Galeria Borgheses first, then you have more or less covered the cost of the pass in one fell swoop, and avoided all those queues. to book the galeria Borghese using the roma pass as your entry ticket, you need to phone them, not book on line. NB - booking is compulsory for the Galleria borghese.

http://www.romapass.it/?l=en [NB - you don't need the roma e piu pass - that's for greater Rome]

http://www.galleriaborghese.it/borghese/en/

in Paris, you just buy the pass for 2, 4, or 6 days.

http://en.parismuseumpass.com/

hope this helps!

Cutting back on places visited would be one way to save costs, and save dramatically. You have listed 10 places in 30 days, that's a lot of moving around and with it travel expenses and other incidentals will increase.

Presumably you are talking two days on the ground in some places, which is not a whole lot especially in some of the great places you plan on visiting. I would recommend removing three of your planned locations. For example, is Switzerland necessary?

"I know we will be craming alot in but we are travelling from Australia & the 22hr flight & cost is enough for us to know we won't have the chance to come back in a hurry."

That is a common way of thinking . . . The problem is the more you move around the less you actually get to see/do. One spends so much time/money moving from place to place, they miss out on BEING anywhere.

IMO it is a shame to spend the limited time/money for what basically ends up being a major tour of the train stations and airports of Europe.

Your plan isn't nearly as frantic/crazy as some we see here, but you will spend more and see less because you are moving around so much.

"My niece is in London & said the water is gross & has gone through so many kidneys before it gets to you. What about in Italy?"

That could be said about anywhere in the world, the most possible reason that the water in London tastes "gross", is that it's "hard" water that's naturally filtered through chalk, this leaves a lot of minerals in the water (good for teeth and bones).

janisj makes a good point.

If I were the OP I would spend a month in UK or France or Italy but not all of these. But it's personal preferences.

It is precisely because you are coming all this way that it makes sense to relax and absorb certain places. Because after all, the trains and train stations in Europe will probably be similar to Australia.

You will probably find Switzerland expensive for a couple of reasons. It is and then there's the less-than-wonderful exchange rate.

If you are absolutely intent on saving money there I would eat in as much as possible.

Do you normally even eat three meals per day?

If you prefer bottled water, buy it in six packs of 1.5 or 2 litre bottles at the grocery, then transfer to smaller bottles at your flat. There's the issue of lugging it back but we used to take our empty 24" roller bags shopping, worked really well.

I cant imagine packing water bottles or even granola bars from home. Just stop in at any grocery store and buy that stuff here!

Water from the tap is perfectly fine. It will taste different from what you are used to because the source is different.

The easiest ways to save money are to limit places you are visiting and eating in.

In London you can save a tonne by grabbing sandwiches or salads from the numerous shops all over town and eating in a park or on a bench like the locals. Look for Tesco, Sainsbury, Boots, Eat, Pret, Costa, Starbucks, Cafe Nero, Pod, Numerous burrito places, numerous pasta and sandwich bars, Paul, Birley Sandwiches etc for good take away.

In Paris visit boulangeries or patisseries instead of sit down places for breakfast and lunch. Again take your items to the park.

My advise would be sray away from Starbucks..If memory serves me a frappaciino at Waterloo station cost the equivalant of 16$ canadian a couple of years ago..Starbucks is never economical!! Groc. store delis are however and the choice is endless.

I meant Starbucks has cheap panninis and sandwiches that you can take away - not their coffee...

In London you can save a tonne by grabbing sandwiches or salads from the numerous shops all over town and eating in a park or on a bench like the locals. Look for Tesco, Sainsbury, Boots, Eat, Pret, Costa, Starbucks, Cafe Nero, Pod, Numerous burrito places, numerous pasta and sandwich bars, Paul, Birley Sandwiches etc for good take away.>>

throughout the UK supermarkets and places like Boots have "meal deals" which allow you to buy ANY sandwich, any drink and any snack for about £3.50. Really excellent value when you consider that some of the sandwiches are £3 by themselves. as for hot drinks, our local library does a take-away coffee for £1.50. look too for "locals' " sandwich bars - our nearest sells an excellent sandwich for less than £2.50; the same thing would be nearer to £4 in Pret or similar.

I always drink the tap water and I'm still alive to tell the tale.

"I would not have thought a cup of coffee or a cold drink would be so expensive,"

Personally, I don't drink cold drinks but I've not thought that coffee was really expensive. You can always grab a cuppa at McDonald's they tend to have cheap coffee. You'll be in apts so you can buy your own coffee from a market.

typically, a cappuccino or similar in the UK will set you back £2.50, and if you sit down at a cafe in Paris, be prepared to pay €5.

Coming from Australia as well, I understand the 'got to see as much as we can' attitude. However, you will travel again to Europe - yes it may not be very often but you will. (think positive here)

I agree with all the posters who suggest cutting down your itinerary - particularly Switzerland. Yes, it is beautiful, but by jingo it is expensive, not the country for budget travellers IMO. France is relatively cheap but it doesn't look like you are planning to spend too much time there.If you have already paid for your accommodation then all our suggestions of changing are a moot point. In that case I agree with most of the suggestions listed and can't really offer much more. It would be a shame though to get all that way there and not be able to enjoy the food and what the country has to offer because you haven't got the cash to do it.

I travel solo nowadays and usually work on about $100 a day. Some days it is more, some less. I also stay in apartments where possible but don't eat in that often. I am not a great drinker so that cuts down $$$.

Your trip will only be a 'taster' but that is fine too, you will soon work out where you wish to return to and spend more time when you go again.
Schnauzer/sydney

I don't agree that Switzerland is expensive. Everyone says that but when I went a couple years ago, I didn't find it any more expensive than France. It was actually a little cheaper in some ways (although I mainly stay in Paris), such as cafes, I remember. I was in Montreux and I've been in Verbier, also, the ski resort.

And Starbucks is not that expensive, everywhere I've been, Starbucks isn't any more expensive than if you sit in an outdoor cafe (France and Spain are the places I've been in Starbucks), it seems to me, and maybe even a little cheaper considering you get more. I suppose it is more expensive than McDonalds, I would agree with that. I don't believe a frappuccino could cost CAD$16 which is 12 euro, I think that memory must be wrong. Maybe if you bought 3 of them. ALthough I don't think buying fancy drinks like that (frappucinos) is something someone who cares about money should do.

Cafe cremes or cappucinos (about the same) in Paris do cost around 3-4 euro. An espresso or small coffee costs several euro just in some dumpy takeout counter in the train station.

People in civilized countries with good water treatment should really stop buying bottled water all the time, it is really an outrageous assault on the environment for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I don't know why people do that, spend so much money on water, not to mention the bottles and what that does to the environment, even if recycled.

Hi, we try to travel as economically as we can, as well being vegetarian can be problematic in some countries.

We rent apartments and I love to cook so this helps. Nothing like buying great fresh produce, bread, cheese and wine and having a relaxed meal in after a busy day. We do go out and lazily have a drink at some cafe later, more for the ambience than anything else.

We like our north american coffee better than a cappuccino, melange or cafe alongé so bring our own along with a melitta drip and start our days that way, while finessing our plans for the day. Again we will stop and enjoy a relaxed coffee or two during the day at a cafe, again for the ambience, more than the drink; okay the restroom factors in as well.

I do love museums and historic sites and feel no problem paying to see them, we enjoy this way more than eating out or shopping. But you can research - see if there are free entrance days, youth/age discounts, passes etc. that are a bonus. Don't skimp on what is most important to you - would you really go to Paris and pass on the Orangerie?

All said, we still go over budget, every time. Somehow the memories make up for that!

Christina..Starbucks was 8 pounds..I looked up in my diary and at that time the exchange rate was 2C$/GBP. I wasn't wrong just shocked but it sure tasted good on that very hot day. Anyhow the message is still there..Lots of inexp. places to get fed and refreshed at on the road.

Christina, I won't say "you can say that again! I'll just copy paste
"People in civilized countries with good water treatment should really stop buying bottled water all the time, it is really an outrageous assault on the environment for absolutely no reason whatsoever. I don't know why people do that, spend so much money on water, not to mention the bottles and what that does to the environment, even if recycled."


Really, unless you're drinking the water with gas, why buy bottled water? Buy 1 if you need to and fill it up.

Most of the apartments I've rented have a drip coffee maker so I don't have to pack my french press (but I wish they would supply one.)

I've refilled my water bottle in Rome from the public fountains and the water is cold and refreshing, no need to buy bottled water!! (Actually used tap water throughout all of the European countries we have travelled in without a problem) The reason I pack granola bars from home is that we have our favorite brands and don't mind carrying them along with us and then we have snacks with us for those first couple days when it's midnight in Paris and your stomach is telling you it's breakfast time at home!!!!

Agree on the bottled water.

I would budget €75/day for food. This assumes eat breakfast in, (ie coffee and croissant), picnic lunch with fab baguette, cheese, ham and jam (and a bottle of inexpensive wine) and an inexpensive, but delicious dinner out.

I have to agree with what a lot of posters have said. Way to busy for us, but it is your trip. We are also Australian and our first trip was for our son's wedding in the UK in 2004. Trip of a lifetime. We will never be able to afford to do that again. On returning home we found it had not cost as much as we had expected, mainly because we did watch what we were spending. If you had told me then that by this time we would have had five trips I would have laughed. We do it by slowing down, staying a week at a time in a rental, buying wonderful food at markets, small shops, supermarkets. We have spent 26 weeks in France alone, as well as a couple of weeks in Italy and more in the UK, and have great memories. Some of our most memorable moments have been small experiences. Of course there are also the big places, but just "being there" is as important to us as being able to say I have been to .....

Click on my name to see my trip report from earlier this year to see how we travel. Nine weeks travelling country France. And no , we are not yet retired [well I am but DH is not ] or wealthy.

I cannot comment on Switzerland, but travelling as we do, we find France reasonable. e.g. lovely salmon on promo at the Intermarche for 8 euro a kilo- perhaps AU$12!! We have also done B&B's in the UK and done picnics from Tesco - a quiche, salad, some yoghurt for dessert.

What ever you do, I hope you have a great trip and I think you will be bitten by the travel bug and you may approach your next trip with some new ideas.

Re the reference to "melitta drip" above, you can of course get those filter paper holders here to put over a cup or jug of your choice, using hot water from a kettle. In London I had to go to a specialist coffee shop for a ceramic one for about £5, but, in Paris, Monoprix had a plastic one for €2. If you want the full machine complete with heater and jug, you could spend anything from £25 upwards, of course.