judilie

I’m just beginning to plan a trip of about 9 days to Croatia in late September and would appreciate advice on a few issues. Our time in Croatia will precede our spending a month in Bologna, Italy (for work). More questions will follow as I do more planning.

My tentative plan is to fly into Dubrovnik or Split, work our way north, and then go to Italy, perhaps by ferry from Istria. I definitely want to visit Dubrovnik and Plitvice. Decisions are yet to be made about other places to visit. We are probably going to be coming back to the area (in conjunction with a bike/barge trip that starts and ends in Vienna) in August 2017 and are planning to visit Zagreb and Slovenia then.

We enjoy beautiful scenery, flora and fauna, hiking and walking tours, kayaking, bicycling, good museums, interesting buildings, local culture, and local cuisine. I don’t have much interest in ruins or laying on the beach.

First question: Fly into Dubrovnik or Split? I had planned on the former, but see that many people seem to do the latter, and some of the flight options do seem better. (We will be starting in Los Angeles.)

Second question: How to get around within the country? Because of our spending a month in Italy after Croatia, we may have a fair amount of luggage, which may affect how we will get around within Croatia. We are certainly open to renting a car some or all of the time (as long as the cost isn’t prohibitive), but know that parking can be a problem in some places.

Third question: How best to get to Bologna from Croatia? Ferry to Venice (and then train to Bologna) or just driving there seem like the best possibilities.

Fourth question: Given our interests, what stops (other than Dubrovnik and Plitvice) would you recommend? E.g., are there places where it is easy to rent bicycles and there are safe places to ride? Ditto kayaks.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Andrew

I would get to Dubrovnik the fastest way possible if that's where you want to start. People choose their arrival city based partly on where they are starting out, and flight connections from LA to Croatia may differ from flight connections of other people flying in from elsewhere.

If for you flying into Dubrovnik instead of into Split means the flight has an extra connection or much worse times or is much more expensive, then know you can fly into Split and either take a 4-5hr bus ride to Dubrovnik or just rent a car in Split. I'd consider the bus from Split to start though because you probably won't want a car in Dubrovnik. There is good, frequent bus service between the two cities.

Just check flights on Kayak if you are buying airline tickets (instead of say using miles or something).

FYI, if flying into Zagreb is WAY better or cheaper for you, you also have the option of taking a cheap Croatia Airlines flight between Zagreb and Dubrovnik; maybe the timing will work well with your arriving flight from LA. (Even if you have to book the Croatia Airlines flight separately.) Or, you could fly into Zagreb, rent a car, and drive south to Dubrovnik - then maybe fly to Milan or take a ferry to Bari, Italy (may not run every day). You'll have to check dates and prices to see what works on your dates. The schedules are best in tourist season and may get worse by October.

(And once you get anywhere in Italy, it should be easy to get to Bologna by train; Italy has a fantastic passenger rail system. I wouldn't want to rent a car in Croatia and drive it to Italy - probably a very expensive one-way drop fee.)

I would almost certainly rent a car in Croatia, though, either picking it up in Dubrovnik or dropping it off there (if you happen to fly into Zagreb and drive south).

kja

With only 9 days, I would think you will need to be VERY selective, and since NONE of us can tell you what YOU will most want to see and experience, that means, IMO, that you'll need to consult some guidebooks (which you can buy or see at your local library). If it helps, I found the <i>Rough Guide</i> BY FAR the most useful of the half-dozen or so guidebooks I worked with when planning my time in the area.

You say that you expect to visit Croatia again, and that gives you a real leg up, IMO. Maybe your experiences are / will be different, but FWIW, I’ve realized that if I can return to a region, the LAST thing that I am likely to want to do is spend my time re-tracing all that extra travel time so that I can go back and finally see the things I skipped the first time. In fact, I might end up not returning specifically because it would mean wasting so much time going from place to place! So, rather than skimming the surface and spending time getting from place to place, you might consider concentrating your attention on EITHER the south (Dubrovnik through Split) OR the north (Istria, the Plitvice Lakes, and whatever you choose among Croatia's other worthy northern destinations). Either area can easily take all the time you can give it!

So, turning to your specific question:

1: Fly into -- whatever makes most sense given your final decisions.

2: As for getting around, my experience is that buses throughout Croatia are comfortable and convenient -- and luggage is stored in the undercarriage. I used a car occasionally while in the country, but only rarely. In the parts south of Split, I was especially glad to NOT have a car -- the views were gob-smackingly glorious (and VERY distracting), so being able to take full advantage of the opportunity to enjoy the views without having to watch the road was, from my perspective, a decided advantage.

Parking can be a disadvantage, and even an encumbrance in many locations. Having a car can, IME, help for the Plitvice Lakes and for seeing Istrian hill towns. Otherwise, I was happy to opt for public transportation. YMMV.

BTW, even with a month in Italy, you should be able to keep your luggage to a minimum if you plan accordingly. I, for one, find keeping luggage to a minimum to be a worthy travel goal.

3: How to get from place to place: Consult rome2rio.com

4: Recommended stops -- see above.

Bikes and kayaks: Consult the <i>Rough Guide</i> and <i>Lonely Planet</i>.

Whatever you choose, it should be a great trip!

judilie

Thanks very much, Andrew and kja. I think we'll fly into Dubrovnik and see how long we can manage without a rental car. I am planning to book flights with miles (LAX-DBV with United miles; BLQ-LAX with Delta miles, which I've been itching to use up).

I have a new idea, inspired by something kja said: We could skip Istria this trip and save it for the next one and take a ferry from Zadar to Ancona in Italy and a train from there to Bologna. I still would like to go to Plitvice this trip. Or because both the ferry and train rides are shorter from Istria to Venice to Bologna than from Zadar to Ancona to Bologna, we could do the former, but not spend any time in Istria this trip other than to get there to take the ferry.

I have the Rough Guide and several other books about Croatia and will begin studying them in earnest now that I have a rough outline of our plans.

Thanks again for your help. I look forward to hearing more from you and from others.

judilie

Alternatively we could take ferry from Split to Ancona and skip Zadar, though that ferry ride is considerably longer than the one from Zadar to Ancona.

kja

Are there any flights from Split that would suit your needs?

judilie

Good idea, kja, but unfortunately there aren't any good flights from Split (or Zadar) to Bologna. And the ferry from Zadar to Ancona no longer runs by the date I have in mind (Sept. 30). So the two best possibilities for getting from Croatia to Italy seem to be overnight ferry on Sept. 30 from Split to Ancona or a ferry the morning of Oct. 1 from Porec to Venice. If our stop previous to this is is Plitvice, the drives from there to ferry disembarkation stop do not differ very much between these possibilities (2-1/4 hrs. from Plitvice to Split, 3 hrs. from Plitvice to Porec). Going to Istria would have the advantage of our going to a new place rather than backtracking, so I think I'm leaning toward that possibility. There are two companies that have ferries from Porec to Venice -- Atlas Kompas and Venezia. Former has a shorter, less expensive crossing. Is it otherwise not as good as the latter?

kja

Sorry, but the travel times you mention don't make sense to me: viamichelin.com -- which is, IME, by far the most accurate -- estimates 5'43" from Plitvice Lakes to Split and 4'33" from the Plitvice Lakes to Porec -- and neither of these times include breaks. Those times are far more in line with my experience than what you are suggesting.... FWIW, googlemaps consistently underestimates driving times in that area by at least 1/4 or 1/3 IME....

judilie

Thanks for pointing out a better source of information on driving times. The fact that Plitvice to Porec is shorter than Plitvice to Split is all the more reason to do the former and then take the (shorter-time) ferry to Venice.

kja

If you route through Porec, consider allowing a bit of time for its magnificent ancient and mosiac-ed Euphrasian Basilica:
http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/809

judilie

Will do.

I am now grappling with whether to go to Hvar or Korcula or not. It sounds like they are time-consuming to get to. I was looking forward to seeing Moresca in Korcula, but by the time we're there (late Sept.) the shows are only on Thursdays, and that doesn't fit with our schedule.

kja

For Korcula, you can take a bus from Dubrovnik and you can then either go back to Dubrovnik or take a ferry to Split. I took the ferry, and IIRC, I had to take a bus from Korcula Town to Vela Luka (also on Korcula Island) for the ferry -- but I'm sure your options would depend on day, month, times, etc. I thoroughly enjoyed Korcula Town, which is small and has retained its medieval character, and the views from the hills above the town are IMO quite glorious. Too bad about the moresca -- such fun! By late Sept., though, Korcula could be largely shuttered -- perhaps someone else knows? When I was there -- late May of 2009 -- it was just "waking up" for the summer season, and several people there spoke of how short the season there is....

I visited Hvar from Split, although you do have other options. I thought Hvar quite beautiful, but far too up-scale and clubby for my tastes. Obviously, many people find it a highlight. I actually stayed in Stari Grad, but unless you have a very specific interest, I'm not sure it would make a good stop for such a limited time in Croatia.

Although it felt more like a peninsula than an island to me, Trogir is another possible island destination, and one that is only 1/2 hour by public bus from Split. It's a TINY place -- easily visited in its entirety in a half day or so -- but its stonework is extraordinary and it might give you a bit of the feel of a Dalmatian Coast island with much less of a commitment of time or effort than either Korcula or Hvar. Just a thought!

Hope that helps!

kawh

as you plan where to stay, two of our favorite places to stay were in croatia... villa adriatica in dubrovnik with it's beautiful rooftop patio and view of everything (super reasonable). near plitvice (about 30 minute drive-- so would want a car) was the lovely little rastoke (in slunj). you can hear the running water from your room and the grounds are like a beautiful park.

have fun planning.. and do see if you can slow down your schedule. it's such a wonderful area... one could spend weeks and weeks there.

judilie

I am now planning on 11 nights/10 full days in Croatia and have come up with a possible itinerary:
Tues, Sept. 20, 5 pm: Arr. Dubrovnik,
Dubrovnik (3 nights – Tues.-Thurs. nts.; 2 full days, day trip to Kotor or Mostar one of those)
Fri.: Drive from Dubrovnik to Korcula (2 hrs. 46 min.)
Korcula (2 nights - Fri. & Sat. nts.)
Sun.: Drive from Korcula to Split (3 hrs. 19 min.)
Split/Trogir (2 nights - Sun. & Mon. nts.)
Tues.: Drive from Split to Zadar (2 hrs.), seeing Krka NP on the way
(going to Skradin, the SW entrance to the park adds only about 20 min.)
Zadar (1 night – Tues. nt.)
Wed.: Morning in Zadar, then drive to Plitvice (2 hrs. 12 min.)
Plitvice (1 night - Wed. nt)
Thurs. - Plitvice, then drive to Porec (4 hrs., 23 min) in afternoon
Porec (2 nts. - Thurs. & Fri. nts.; see Porec and visit other places on Istria on Fri.)
Saturday morning: ferry to Venice, then train (or rental car) from Venice to Bologna

I have in mind that we will take a guided bus tour to Mostar or Kotor. (I considered trying to go to Mostar on our way from Dubrovnik to Korcula, but think that would take too much time.) Then rent a car as we leave Dubrovnik and have it the rest of the trip. I know that kja is a big proponent of using buses, but I think with two of us and a fair amount of luggage we'll be better off with a car, which will give us the flexibility to stop where we want.

I look forward to hearing your opinions about this plan. Thanks.

kja

Again and first and foremost -- this will be a great trip no matter how you finesse it!

Some thoughts:
- If choosing between a day trip to Kotor or one to Mostar, I'd go for Kotor. Mostar is, IME, infinitely more enjoyable after daytrippers leave; Kotor is, IME, a bit more accessible without the benefit of time after day-trippers leave. JMO.... Of course another option would be to include an overnight in Mostar at the cost of one/more of your other stops -- your cal!

- I was about to comment on your choice of transit, but OK, got it, you think a car will suit you better. Good luck!

- Split/Trogir (2 nights --This time seems to me very little for Split/Trogir. Are you sure you will have time to meet your interests in this fascinating area in this time frame?

- Zadar -- so you are only planning on a late evening and a morning in Zadar?

-Plitvice (1 night - Wed. nt) -- I'm not sure I follow your plan here -- Are you planning to leave Zadar very, very early (giving yourselves basically no time in Zadar) so that you can visit the Plitvice Lakes ASAP once you get there (so you still have 6 or 7 hours before sunset)? Or are you planning to visit the Plitvice Lakes starting at sunrise on your Thurs,, which might let you reach Porec before sunset? I'm confused! If it helps:

Not only are the lakes of the Plitvice Lakes connected by travertine waterfall formations, each lake has unique microbiota, and as a result, the lakes are different colors. The best way to see that is to make a single, long loop through the park -- something on the order of 6 hours or more (including time for the boat that connects the lower and upper lakes), and by all means, start at the lowest part of the park so you are facing the falls as you proceed.

I'm absolutely sure that your plan will allow you some wonderful memories and experiences. I am also convinced that your plan is not optimal -- by trying to ensure that you have at least 2 nights in most stays, you are, IMO, overstaying in some places and shortchanging others -- but that's JMO, and of course I could easily be wrong because the timing on such a fast-paced trip really depends (as I well know) on when one leaves a place. I suppose it could work -- I'm just not seeing it....

Why so much luggage? (No need to answer -- just posing a rhetorical question....)

Good luck!

judilie

Thanks very much, kja. Plan for Plitvice is to get there Wed. evening (spending most of that day in Zadar) and to spend Thursday morning and early afternoon in the park and get to Porec by the evening. Is it fairly safe to drive in Croatia after dark, or should we try to arrive at our destinations before the sun sets?

You seem to feel we'd have too short time in several places and too much in others. Can you suggest any changes to alleviate that?

Several reasons for so much luggage: After Croatia I will be in Bologna for a month, working. My husband may bring his golf clubs so that he has something to do while I'm busy working.

Andrew

I wouldn't have any problem with only two nights in Split/Trogir. Split was not my favorite place, though Diocletian's Palace is unique and very interesting. I liked Trogir a little better - more "charming" than Split, which is a real working city, but Trogir's old town is very small.

In Istria, I stayed in Rovinj, which I loved, one of my favorite towns in Croatia. I haven't been to Porec, so I can't compare them.

judilie

Thanks, Andrew. The reason I planned to stay in Porec is that we were planning to take the ferry from there and that ferry leaves fairly early (7:30 am), so I thought it would be best to wake up there. However, there is also a ferry from Rovinj. It leaves even earlier (6:15 am), takes longer, and is more expensive, but it would be an alternative if Rovinj would be a nicer place to spend our nights. Even if we stay in Porec, we can make a point of visiting Rovinj. I need to look into the process of dropping off our rental car, which may affect our decision.

Andrew

There aren't many rental car companies that have offices right in Rovinj. (One who does is Oryx, whom I rented from though not in Rovinj; I got a good price with them through EconomyCarRentals.)

Since I haven't been to Porec, I can't tell you to change your plans to stay in Rovinj instead if it's a great inconvenience. Maybe you'll love Porec. Rovinj seemed better as a base, a great place to come back to at night than as a place to explore as a day trip. The old town is tiny and gets a lot of tourists in the daytime, but in late September/early October it might not be that bad. The town glistens at night, but I also enjoyed my morning walks along the waterfront, before the tourists arrived, with merchants chatting in front of their stores, fishermen getting ready to head out to see, and stray cats hanging out. The Venetian bell tower at the church at the top of the hill obviously reminded me of Venice, where you are headed anyway.

kja

Whether your plan works for you really depends on what you want to see and experience. I've already commented on the places that struck me as things you might want to reconsider, and if you are comfortable with your decisions, go and enjoy! And my apologies: It seemed that I inadvertently left out a key word: I meant to say "not necessarily optimal" -- oops!

On the major roads, you should have no problem driving after dark. On back roads, my experience was that the locals can be overly aggressive -- coming up upon you WAY too fast, passing with barely enough clearance, and taking even blind corners on the wrong side of the road.... I find driving defensively under those conditions much easier in daylight than after dark.

Porec is lovely and would, IMO, be a very nice place to spend a day or two.