July Trip (2 Weeks or So) London, Paris, Venice, Rome - Possible?

It may be possible to do as you now plan but the real question is, is it advisable.

After many years of travel my trips have gotten longer and the number of places I visit, even when going to a country for the first time, fewer. I think, after reading forums for some time, I'm not alone in this. So a less experienced traveler, reading this advice over and over, might take from it the concept that fewer places is better. But alas, I think it's one of those lessons learned by experience and over time. We do it until we get it right, if we ever get it right. JerLon, please don't read criticism of you in this. I think it's a journey, so to speak, we all take if we travel. Human nature, I presume.

The upside of learning it sooner rather than later is that it can be much less expensive, given discounts for longer stays and fewer transportation expenses. I also find that towns & cities become more interesting to me after being there for a time as I actually begin to see them more clearly and make, if not friends, certainly acquaintances.

Definitely not reading it as a criticism.

I'm high on London, my wife is high on Italy. Any suggestions to overcome this?

Oh, good. Then go to 2 cities for your 2 weeks. Rent an apartment in each and do a couple of day trips into the countryside or to smaller towns to get a feel for "elsewhere".

I'd been to Italy several times before I went to Rome, thinking I might not like it, too big, too "city". But I was encouraged by a friend and went finally 2 springs ago. I loved it. So I'd recommend London and Rome. There are many wonderful day trips by train or bus from both which you'll discover while having the pleasure of planning, often one of the best parts of a trip so don't neglect it.

Staying in apartments is not only more comfortable and generally less expensive but you're inspired to go to markets to cook some of your meals and will see an entirely different side of a place than you might otherwise see. It adds dimension as nothing else will. And you'll have neighbors, not just other strangers to the city.

Once you decide on which cities we can give you more ideas. And don't forget, you can fly into one city and home from another to maximize you time.

That sounds like a decent plan.

So, lets plan on London and Rome.

Quick research has indicated the cheapest way to travel from London to Rome is Air, which surprised me.

On my list of questions:

1. Easiest/Safest/Cheapest methods for renting apartments in each city?

2. Best day trips out of each city? How to plan?

3. Must see in each city?

4. Traveling from London to Rome - Best? Cheapest? Most convenient?

5. Any chance of getting from London to Manchester for a day?

1. There are loads of online agencies for apartments. Besides the actual apartment and price I look for an agency or owner that has reviews from other travelers and (big one) accepts credit cards. This is a convenience and a protection. The alternatives such as wiring money can be expensive lessons in how to lose one's money and vacation. I like AirBnB very much http://www.airbnb.com/ and others here will give you their favorites.

2. Best day trips depend on your interests. Give us an idea what those might be.

3. Again, a function of your interests so borrow or buy guidebooks with particular emphasis on the cities you've chosen. To take with you I especially like the Knopf city Mapguides that fit in one's pocket and have small fold-out maps for sections of the city. For planning you'll want more comprehensive guides. Borrow from your library before you spend a lot.

4. Yes, with a short amount of time for your trip, fly. keep in mind that the low fare airlines charge lots of fees and restrict baggage size and weight so do your homework to find out what it will REALLY cost before you buy. And keep in mind sometimes the big airlines, British Airways for example, match the fares of the budgets without the restrictions and it has been my experience that London-Rome is one of those routes.
Shop around. http://www.whichbudget.com/

5. You could but there must be a reason I haven't thought of. Look here for trains:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/

JerLon, why don't you research both cities online and reading guide books. Then the forum is great for asking specific questions. Or run a search and you will definitely find the main sights to see in both London and Rome discussed.

Hi Jerlon go a bunch doable if a bit rushed
in the time you have have done it.
Afforadabletours.com many good options
also smartours.com out of NYC BBB.org A plus rated
I do NOT rent apartments many scammers poor quality EXPENSIVE.
Cheapest for me fly RT NYC LON cheapoair.com then easyjet.com
cit to city seat61.com train is also doable usually more.
eurolines.com buspass very cheapest not best though.
eurocheapo.com for budget hotels tips WAY cheaper than apartments vrbo.Do beaware many for profit apartment touts lurk on the boards and it is illegal for an individual to rent to you most are taxcheats.Pay only with CC never wire money.Have a look at those websites you will see hotels are WAY safer and cheaper.

Good luck!

"2 weeks or so" is the "so" more or less than the two weeks? That'll make a difference.

If it's more, I'd suggest adding Paris back into the mix. Well, heck, I'd still suggest adding in Paris even if it were only two weeks.

I would be comfortable doing a bit more or a bit less depending on what we "need" to make it work. Finances are a consideration.

Airbnb VERY risky NukeSafe here bad experience with them
Two threads by nukesafe have very bad discussions about airbnb www.fodors.com/community/united-states/anyone-familiar-with-the...

Stick with regular budget hotels Globus also some wonderful tours I have done out of LON for 2 weeks 2K per person when
I wasa newbie. Best way to start out as a newbie for me.

London is ok but I am with your wife Ilove Italy. Last May
for me venice-tourism.com www.hotelpausania.it amazing little
canal view suite 59 euro www.otel.com

Not risky. I've used AirBnB a number of times, nothing but good. With anything and any agency one can find bad experiences and I can only relate what I've experienced and that of friends who have used the site with excellent results.

In the past year or so the site has become the most comprehensive of any, including their customer service. If there's a problem with a rental the site stands behind the offerings, unlike most online agencies. I've never had a problem, canceled one after I had second thoughts and received an instant (same day) refund from the company. Very unusual for an online agency. I trust them and currently have a week-long booking with them.

I have travelled to all of the locations that you mentioned and I am surprised that Venice was so quickly edited out. I would absolutely lose some time in England to get to go to Venice. So many places look better in photos than reality but Venice is one of the most beautiful places you will ever experience.

To see in London: British Museum (think it is free), Westminster Abbey, St Paul's, The London Eye, The War Rooms/Churchill; if you can make a day trip consider Canterbury.

I believe the Olympics begin in London in late July-so be aware of that for planning purposes. Hotels will be filling up if they are not full already!

Headed to Rome this Fall myself: the one thing I wasn't aware of before that gets high ratings and I am told I have to do...Borghese Gallery (I think you know the others, Coliseum, Trevi Fountain, Spanish Steps, Vatican/St Peter's/Cistine Chapel)

personally, i would add Venice into the mix. with london and Rome you have two vast capital cities, which is hardly restful. Whilst Venice will be busy, you will have a completely different experience there, which by using the vaporetti [water-ferries] you can make quite relaxing.

I suggest flying into london, staying 5 nights, flying to Venice - 4 nights - train to Rome - 5 nights. you could still stay in apartments.

the Olympics start July 27th. if you haven't already booked your flight into London, I'd do it now.

Denise - you don't "have " to see the Borghese Gallery. We've spent 2 whole weeks in Rome and haven't seen it yet. perhaps next time!

do you have a specific reason to want to go to Manchester (family etc?), the only reason i say is that it is a good 3 hour+ train ride and there are so many closer nicer places in my opinion. I certainly wouldnt pick Manachester as a european highlight so unless there is a specific reason you need to go there then i would definitely reccomend sticking to closer places.

In 2 weeks i would also most definietly add in Paris. You can get the train there from central London easily in 3 hours or so.

Have a fab trip

No one has focused on your question: "Is this trip possible for less than $5,000 for two people?" First followup question: Does that $5,000 include the airfare? If so, then it might be possible but you'll have to play it very, very close to the vest, financially speaking. Assuming the airfare is between $1,500 and $2,000 for a three-way reservation (US to London to Rome to US), that leaves $3,000-3,500 for all other expenses, which boils down to about $215-250 per day for the 14 days. That's tight, especially if you decide to take either or both of the side trips to Paris and Venice.

I've used airbnb and think it's fine for the US, but did have two very similar problems in Europe. Both times the host refused to give the street number. There's nothing more frustrating to arrive in a foreign city late at night, call up the b&b only to have the host say: "Just come to xyz street" and when you point out that xyz street is very loong, he repeats "Just come to xyz street" and hangs up. Call him back and he doesn't even pick up the second time around. Now you're in a foreign train station late at night with all your luggage and no room for the night. But the worst part is to find that airbnb has charged you for that one night at the address with no street number, refuses to refund you, and also won't let you post a comment on their board about your experience.

I see from the other fodors' thread that mine was not a unique experience.

So, if you are going to use airbnb, caveat emptor.

Besides which, why use airbnb for Europe when there are other, Europe-based websites that are far more reliable?

Or look at the Rick Steves' guides. He recommends inexpensive places to stay and they become so popular that he has to list new ones with almost every new edition. Go to the library and go back into the past editions to get a few b&b names; the rates may have changed a bit.

"...Besides which, why use airbnb for Europe when there are other, Europe-based websites that are far more reliable?" easytraveler

I'm not trying to twist anyone's arm here and did suggest that others would give the names of their favorite apartment agencies. But no one seems to have done that and I've found many mentioned in the past quite expensive. So Easytraveler, give JerLon some alternatives, what are your budget favorites?

Try www.eurocheapo.com

vrbo, homeaway, sleepinitaly...

Lots of hotel rooms in London that were reserved for Olympic Officials will not be needed and have just been released for public sale, so there might be some good deals out there.

Yes, of course you could do Manchester as a day trip. The journey time from train station to train station is just over 2 hours. It would be a long day but I'm sure you would enjoy it.

Okay, so the wife and I have read through all of these posts and have agreed that doing London for two weeks is probably the better plan than trying to jam it all into one trip.

Our plan is to find a location on vrbo and use it as our base for two weeks (or so, a day or two on either side is fine).

We are limited to July due to employment conditions.

Is there a good comprehensive post on the boards somewhere on the best methods of planning? I'm trying to decide whether to book the best flights or the best apartment and go from there. It seems like there are a lot of variables that could change daily. I feel like I need to lock in the plane tickets first and go from there, correct?

Anyone ever stay in a vrbo in London that they loved and was a good deal?

Sounds like a good plan. There are lots of great things to see in London and around. You can also find lots of great affordable day trips on www.walks.com Bath, Stonehenge/Salisbury, Canterbury, Oxford etc.

Just be aware that the olympics start at the end of July in London this year and that will likely impact prices of apartments.

Looking to go somewhere in the July 2/3-July 17/18 Range to avoid olympics. But, I understand I might end up paying a bit more.

In the end, I'm trying total cost below $7,500 including airfare.

$2,500 airfare
$2,000 housing (hoping)
$1,000 food (reasonable?)
$1,000 transportation/day trips (Chunnel to Paris for a day, trip to Bath, Brighton, Stonehenge...)

Any assistance is appreciated.

Check out www.eurostar.com and book your tickets to Paris as early as they become available to get the cheapest price.

Have you thought about a week in London and a week in Paris? You could fly into one and out of the other for probably close o the same price as flying in and out of one place. If you are going to Paris for a day (I personnaly dont think its worth it...) you may as well spend some time there.

If you search London flats (or apartments) and Paris apartments you will find tonnes of info about it.

You've certainly made a wise decision budgetwise. You'll have a much, much better chance of keeping costs under your budget.

I would second jamikins suggestion of flying into London, staying a week, taking the train to Paris, 1 week there, then flying home.

VRBO has a good selection of apartments in Paris. You can crosscheck reviews here or on Slowtrav.com. I only consider apartments with a decent number of reviews and you can ask for references when you contact the owner.

I think those two places are a great way to see Europe for the first time and London strikes me as more expensive than Paris. You might have more flexibility in your budget if you're just there a week.

I'm with those who believe you can do justice to London, Paris and Rome in two weeks. There are many packages (NOT tours) that will provide you with hotels and inter-city transportation; take a look at Costco Travel, for example.

The opening entry in this thread indicated that Mr. & Mrs. JerLon were most excited about visiting London & Rome. Have they changed their minds or have we changed it for them?

A week in each location is a relaxed and excellent 2 week holiday. Why all the talk of Paris when they can easily fly into London, fly to Rome and home from there? I like it very much when we can help people get exactly what they most want, not what we want them to want.

I was the one who changed my mind, well, I think I did.

Although, I am going back and forth.

My biggest obstacle is trying to price housing. And am unsure as to what bullet needs to be "bitten" first. Housing vs Air?

I feel like I could do a week in each (albeit, a bit rushed) and get to see the major sites and feel happy knowing we had our "big Europe trip" prior to having kids.

This is a very persuasive bunch of experienced travelers here and many would like to bend you toward their favorites and consider it a success. I tend to believe that our first thoughts are often our hearts' desire speaking and if London and Rome is that then don't let all this hot air blow you off course.

A week in each of those places, I repeat, would be absolutely excellent and not particularly rushed. As you know already from our first conversation, I'd say so if I thought it was too much.

JerLon - you can have a fabulous time in any location (London, London/Rome, London/Paris) so take your pick

Your biggest expense will be the international flights. Apartments are usually rented Sat - Sat so work with that framework. I would book this as soon as you see a good price. Fly into one city and out of the other to save backtracking.

As for apartments there are tonnes of options for all budgets.
Here are two we loved:

Rome (this one is available) http://www.liveromelikearoman.com/availability.htm the woman speaks excellent English and is very easy to work with.

Paris http://www.slowtrav.com/cl/detail.asp?l=1208 We paid just over €300 for the whole week! Caveat - it is small, and up 6 flights of stairs but we would definitely stay there again. Its in the 11th, so a bit farther out, but close to Republique and we walked to Opera and the river from there!

If you want more details you can click my name or do a search for jamikins or bikerscott and you will find our trip reports on our profiles.

Happy Travels!

After talking it over with the wife for a while, we're back to London and Rome.

London 7/4-7/13
Rome 7/13-7/19

It looks like plane tickets can be had for a total of $2,500 or so.

This keeps me on budget.

I've contacted the Rome apartment from the post above this. Any other suggestions for Rome or London where people have stayed? I much prefer suggestions to reviews as I've been paid in the past to create fake reviews... I know that business.

For London, I've considered trying to priceline bid a hotel in the docklands to see if I can get it for cheap. I've stayed there before and didn't mind the DLR into the city center. However, I wouldn't mind an apartment which might save on food costs. I just am struggling to sort through all of the apartments on vrbo, homeaway.....

I cant help you with London as I live here, but I would really urge you to not stay in the Docklands - there is no London atmosphere there!!!

For affordable hotels try Premier Inn - I would choose any of County Hall (right by Waterloo, Westminster, the London Eye), Southwark (right by London Bridge - my fav area of London), Victoria, Tower Bridge (not my first choice, but not a bad choice): http://www.premierinn.com/ These are very basic hotels, but clean and well priced.

For flights from London to Rome check out www.ba.com if you book in advance I find their prices comparable with the cheap airlines and there is reasonable luggage allowances.

You can also check the budget airlines that are perfectly fine to fly with but watch out for additional charges on check-out when comparing with BA, and they have very restrictive luggage allowances to be aware of that.

www.easyjet.com
www.ryanair.com

Premier Inn is out of my budget on those dates. I need to keep it around $100/night max.

That is why I thought Docklands. Come into the city for the day and head out at night.

I agree that it would take away some of the feel/heart/soul of London but it may make it work in terms of budget.

For those who have been to Rome or Italy. Give me some opinions on Rome vs Venice and the length of time required to hit the mandatory locations in each.

More interested in major landmarks than museums.

JerLon - I recommend getting some guidebooks and seeing what interests you both. What I am interested in may not interest you at all. Visit a book store or library and look at pics and see what grabs you. You dont seem to have an idea of what YOU want to see so settle that first and we can help you with logistics.

Just keep in mind you are adding costs each time you move and Venice accomodations are quite expensive.

WOAH! I should have looked at Venice prices before I even mentioned that. Goodness that city is expensive.

I have booked rooms in London and Rome for the following dates (and air):

July 4-13: London
July 13-19: Rome

I have not yet booked air from London to Rome. Trying to decide whether the best time to book is now or wait???

About to create threats on itineraries for each city. Getting excited.

As I mentioned early on, it's been my experience that British Air often matches the fares of the low fare (and low service) airlines between Heathrow (I believe) and Rome. So while you're looking for fares don't neglect to check with them too.

And by the way, good job!

Threats on itineraries? Yep. Happens to all of us. You have a good base set. One of the best trips we did was a week in London, then a week in Paris....but we'd just been to Italy the year before. I think a week in London and a week in Rome are perfect.

Yup, Threats

MmePerdu, have you heard to simply call them to match the price?

You mean bargain with an airline? No never have heard of that. What I meant was they price themselves to be competitive in that market. Or am I not understanding you?

I understand you now.

EasyJet will fly you from London (Gatwick) to Rome for somewhere between £46 and 92£ around your dates (price varries by time of day and exactly which day you want). That's not a bad price so I'd book it right away. EasyJet prices go up closer to the date.

Where did you book lodging for London and for how much. EasyHotels are a possibility for budget stays in London. In july you can get a room (with a window) for 55£. They are clean, safe and well located. But everything is extra (tv, internet, maid service, left luggage). Still, some low cost Lundon hotels can be pretty sketchy so I like easyjet cause you know what you are getting.

A little more expensive £95 - is Traveldoge Waterloo - but the rooms are much larger and the tv at least is free.

Compare not only fare prices but extra charges. Smaller baggage allowances and significant charges for overweight bags. Not as bad on EasyJet as Ryanair but all considered BA would be preferable.

Read reviews of EasyHotels on Trip Advisor if you consider the suggestion. Probably not what most of us are looking for.